Guild Wars 2

I’m not going to say meta or not as a lot of things changed. First build I threw together. I did 2 quick tests.

One was a Sword+P/Staff. 10 conditions on the boss. Summon 2 staff phantasms and then 1 pistol phantasms. Then just MoP every 10 seconds and sword 2 spam (try to not interrupt the auto). This hit 27.4k DPS. I figured this would be a hypothetical max DPS but not realistic. However…

I then tried Sw/Sw+ Focus. I used focus as it would be practical in raids for a pull. Focus 5, Sword 5, SotE, Sword 5. Spam 2 and MoP. Summon a 3rd swordsman when available. Didn’t continue to spam them. Just got 3 up. 28.1k on the first try.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAs8NnsICNohVoBmohFVDBtbaldKhMwIA-TxRBABPcSAoU9HAeAAmpEEP9CkpE7q9HlHkCQPlRA-e

I don’t think the gear is optimal and not sure about food. At 93% crit chance so more precision could be added. Probably ups the DPS a bit. Utilities are really minor DPS and could be changed to something else. Mistfire wolf etc could up the DPS more if you’re ok with those.

I guess the Devs knew what they were doing with phantasm might on sword 5. Just didn’t release the important trait at the same time >_>. Ramp up time on the new GM illusion trait is seems to make sword phantasms worth it compared to staff phantasms.

Edit: Still has problem of wind up time etc… just stop the complaining that I know is coming. It’s just a “viable with some nice utility in there build.” Maybe mirage ambush on sword makes it better.

Let’s say Ambush for Sword is amazing and makes Mirage worth taking. Which line would you get rid of for it?

I don’t know. We don’t know for sure if the ambush attack works for phantasms or not.

If Ambush attacks do work for phantasms:
Domination would be dropped. It’s 15% more phantasm damage and 12.5% personal damage. That seems like a lot but I’m pretty sure that Fury and 150 ferocity is better for the swordsman. The new dueling GM is also better personal damage on top of shorter sword 2 CD and ferocity. Illusions is hands down better than both in this situation with phantasmal haste and 25% more phantasm damage. 9% personal damage isn’t the worst. Dueling and Illusions also reduces wind up time on swordsman.

If Ambush attacks don’t work for phantasms:
I don’t know. I would have to see the breakdown between personal and phantasm damage before saying anything. Dueling is unlikely to be dropped though as it has vigor which is important for the ambush spam unless you are in a group with a traited sun spirit. Illusions or Domination is undecided.

Yes, it’s great that we are almost on “worth mentioning levels of dps” after close to 5 years and less than 2 months before the release of an expansion with a new set of elite specialisations.

Oh wait…

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Edit: Still has problem of wind up time etc… just stop the complaining that I know is coming. It’s just a “viable with some nice utility in there build.” Maybe mirage ambush on sword makes it better.

Viable means people won’t instant kick you for joining their pug raid. With all it’s limitations I wouldn’t call this viable yet.

On the topic of ambush and Mirage:

I’m sure the dps for mesmers will go up, god knows arenanet has had close to 2 years to work on the new elites. That’s great and I’m sure it will make for an intersting playstyle.

Then again ALL the classes are getting elite specialisations, some of them even with new toys like barrier. To assume a mesmer will have a raid spot based on purely dps at this point in time, well we will see.

Also once the initial expansion post release mumbo jumbo has died down, I’m quite sure there will be an extensive rebalance patch. I don’t see Mirage coming out of that one to well due to it’s mechanics and stealthy nature. Again, time will tell.

Cyninja.2954:

Yes, it’s great that we are almost on “worth mentioning levels of dps” after close to 5 years and less than 2 months before the release of an expansion with a new set of elite specialisations.

Oh wait…

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Edit: Still has problem of wind up time etc… just stop the complaining that I know is coming. It’s just a “viable with some nice utility in there build.” Maybe mirage ambush on sword makes it better.

Viable means people won’t instant kick you for joining their pug raid. With all it’s limitations I wouldn’t call this viable yet.

On the topic of ambush and Mirage:

I’m sure the dps for mesmers will go up, god knows arenanet has had close to 2 years to work on the new elites. That’s great and I’m sure it will make for an intersting playstyle.

Then again ALL the classes are getting elite specialisations, some of them even with new toys like barrier. To assume a mesmer will have a raid spot based on purely dps at this point in time, well we will see.

Also once the initial expansion post release mumbo jumbo has died down, I’m quite sure there will be an extensive rebalance patch. I don’t see Mirage coming out of that one to well due to it’s mechanics and stealthy nature. Again, time will tell.

http://qtfy.eu/benchmarks/

Condi mesmer was “viable” at 25.8k. Condi across the board have also been nerfed. Tempest etc also got nerfed.

If I’m hitting 28.1k with an unoptimized build with a wind up time of ~12 seconds, that’s a lot more viable than condi mesmer (although I do need to test a few new traits despite food nerfs to condi). Also don’t even know if I actually got the rotation right. I’ll try it out with my guild group this week and see how it goes.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Cyninja.2954:

Yes, it’s great that we are almost on “worth mentioning levels of dps” after close to 5 years and less than 2 months before the release of an expansion with a new set of elite specialisations.

Oh wait…

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Edit: Still has problem of wind up time etc… just stop the complaining that I know is coming. It’s just a “viable with some nice utility in there build.” Maybe mirage ambush on sword makes it better.

Viable means people won’t instant kick you for joining their pug raid. With all it’s limitations I wouldn’t call this viable yet.

On the topic of ambush and Mirage:

I’m sure the dps for mesmers will go up, god knows arenanet has had close to 2 years to work on the new elites. That’s great and I’m sure it will make for an intersting playstyle.

Then again ALL the classes are getting elite specialisations, some of them even with new toys like barrier. To assume a mesmer will have a raid spot based on purely dps at this point in time, well we will see.

Also once the initial expansion post release mumbo jumbo has died down, I’m quite sure there will be an extensive rebalance patch. I don’t see Mirage coming out of that one to well due to it’s mechanics and stealthy nature. Again, time will tell.

http://qtfy.eu/benchmarks/

Condi mesmer was “viable” at 25.8k. Condi across the board have also been nerfed. Tempest etc also got nerfed.

If I’m hitting 28.1k with an unoptimized build with a wind up time of ~12 seconds, that’s a lot more viable than condi mesmer (although I do need to test a few new traits despite food nerfs to condi). Also don’t even know if I actually got the rotation right. I’ll try it out with my guild group this week and see how it goes.

Except that condi mesmer was not viable due to dps.

It was viable on 2 bosses due to boss mechanics severly hampering other classes and for once make our phantasms worthwhile. So yes, if fights are designed so that our usually detrimental mechanic let’s us come out on top, then we are viable. Hasn’t been the case all to often so far.

The accross the board condi nerf indeed is beneficial to power builds. There was literally almost no power builds except elementalist and power warrior for KC.

We will have to wait and see.

Thats why giving mirage torment confusion is a bad call. It should have been a bleed soec with minor confusion torment through traits.

So from just sword phantasms and using MoP every 10s I was getting about 12.5k, now this would go up if you literally just spammed MoP on bosses where melee cleave isn’t always possible like cairn and Matthias. I think power mes will be the way forward for these bosses that are pretty heavy on mechanics and I believe it will be all sword phantasms, I just can’t get the warlocks to be that big an increase on the golem. Don’t know why as there are 8 conditions and each hitting for 20k but it just doesn’t work out any better for me.

When did we change the meaning of viable to be ‘useful in a few raid bosses, useless everywhere else?’

Meh, 28k is more than viable considering that the requirements are what? 15k or so average? 18k?

I mean yeah it’d be nice to fine-tune above that, but frankly it hardly matters. Unless raids in PoF are massively more difficult than HoT raids, it’s viable “enough”.

Have you considered using scepter/sw and scepter/focus? Scepter 3 does a lot of power damage and it looks like you are running the condition damage SIG, so it might be a DPS boost.
Great sword could possibly work better than staff does too.

Levetty.1279:

When did we change the meaning of viable to be ‘useful in a few raid bosses, useless everywhere else?’

Well, it’s not going to be useful for a few, it’s going to be ok on half the bosses mostly. You could run it on all of wing 4 without too many issues, though other classes will be better on the invuln/teleport phases of Samarog and Deimos respectively but you bring more utility, notably CC, which can be useful especially with the last teleport. On a ranged build you’d probably do better than other classes if still doing the ranged strat on Deimos.

Wing 2 only bandit trio will be a poor choice but you make up for that in some ways by trio not being especially hard and a bit more utility to breeze through Narella. The extra invulns, CC and condition cleansing will be great for Sloth and Matthias especially when most classes struggle to break 20k on Matthias and most people sit in the 12-17k mark which is attainable by simply having phantasms on Matthias.

Wing 1 and 3 are no go because cleave and multiple sub bosses but you can at least run a power mesmer in half the raids (no stacking) and not feel like you’re a burden.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6siame/power_mes_post_patch_285k/

Link above for anyone who’s interested.

So I’ve fiddled around a bit with power mesmer in open world. It is nice to not be a pure boon bot and actually show up on arc. The rotation is super simple (at least until qtfy comes out with a optimised build).

Mesmer seems to lend itsself to hybrid builds. We will have to wait and see how this works out.

28k on the golem is super easy to do. It’s almost only autoattack with occasional sword 2 and triggering MoP. So yes, it might pull some nice numbers on some bosses with low skill play.

I’m not going to be extatic yet, the numbers are okay compared to other classes old builds. Thief for example was buffed too and pulls way higher numbers. That’s just it, we are now on par with what other classes were at before. Still maybe Mirage will add onto this.

The damage is still mostly single target and if our phantasms die it breaks appart. So still situational. Might work nicely on raid bosses were people don’t have perfect rotation.

The mantra changes are nice.

To sum up, it’s nice to actually do something else in open world than twiddle my thumbs. No idea how long this novelity will last. It’s also worth mentioning that mesmer was one of the only classes which came out with almost only buffs from the rebalance just as an fyi to everyone who was constantly arguing mesmer was fine pre rebalance.

Cyninja.2954:

So I’ve fiddled around a bit with power mesmer in open world. It is nice to not be a pure boon bot and actually show up on arc. The rotation is super simple (at least until qtfy comes out with a optimised build).

Mesmer seems to lend itsself to hybrid builds. We will have to wait and see how this works out.

28k on the golem is super easy to do. It’s almost only autoattack with occasional sword 2 and triggering MoP. So yes, it might pull some nice numbers on some bosses with low skill play.

I’m not going to be extatic yet, the numbers are okay compared to other classes old builds. Thief for example was buffed too and pulls way higher numbers. That’s just it, we are now on par with what other classes were at before. Still maybe Mirage will add onto this.

The damage is still mostly single target and if our phantasms die it breaks appart. So still situational. Might work nicely on raid bosses were people don’t have perfect rotation.

The mantra changes are nice.

To sum up, it’s nice to actually do something else in open world than twiddle my thumbs. No idea how long this novelity will last. It’s also worth mentioning that mesmer was one of the only classes which came out with almost only buffs from the rebalance just as an fyi to everyone who was constantly arguing mesmer was fine pre rebalance.

I give it 2 more days before the nerf cries become targeted at mesmer dps in PvP.

Levetty.1279:

When did we change the meaning of viable to be ‘useful in a few raid bosses, useless everywhere else?’

There are 9 classes and round about 250 million possible specs. I hardly doubt that even the most generalist of non-Elementalist classes is going to be useful everywhere. Niches are an absolutely integral part of class/spec systems.

Cyninja.2954:

To sum up, it’s nice to actually do something else in open world than twiddle my thumbs. No idea how long this novelity will last. It’s also worth mentioning that mesmer was one of the only classes which came out with almost only buffs from the rebalance just as an fyi to everyone who was constantly arguing mesmer was fine pre rebalance.

Don’t let azukas see this lol but yes it was nice to not be nerfed for once

They should have looked at the GMs in the Domination line since there’s nothing there for a DPS Mesmer.

My suggestion: Mental Anguish also affecting Phantasm attacks (even if PvE only). Or remove/rework Imagined Burden (that thing is Master Tier at best).

Rexx.1805:

They should have looked at the GMs in the Domination line since there’s nothing there for a DPS Mesmer.

My suggestion: Mental Anguish also affecting Phantasm attacks (even if PvE only). Or remove/rework Imagined Burden (that thing is Master Tier at best).

My suggestion would have been to make mental anguish a flat damage mod instead then added damage mods to the duelling line like the new GM. Reduce base damage of mind wrack if need be but right now mental anguish is only worth it if you want the boon removal of domination line. Duelling does far more than the power line for increasing damage now unless you need DE.

Rexx.1805:

They should have looked at the GMs in the Domination line since there’s nothing there for a DPS Mesmer.

My suggestion: Mental Anguish also affecting Phantasm attacks (even if PvE only). Or remove/rework Imagined Burden (that thing is Master Tier at best).

I want less Phantasm-reliant stuff. Not more :<

Carighan.6758:

I want less Phantasm-reliant stuff. Not more :<

+%dmg upon shattering a phantasm, like Berserker’s Power?

Photoloss.4817:

Carighan.6758:

I want less Phantasm-reliant stuff. Not more :<

+%dmg upon shattering a phantasm, like Berserker’s Power?

It should be for shattering anything.

Levetty.1279:

Photoloss.4817:

Carighan.6758:

I want less Phantasm-reliant stuff. Not more :<

+%dmg upon shattering a phantasm, like Berserker’s Power?

It should be for shattering anything.

Was trying to keep PvP spammability out of this. Probably way off the mark but I was more thinking of around +20%dmg per phantasm that successfully shatters (i.e. not killed while running and you only get the bonus upon impact) for 10s or so, stacking up to 3 times.

Photoloss.4817:

+%dmg upon shattering a phantasm, like Berserker’s Power?

Hrm, maybe. Frankly I’d prefer a set of patchnotes which start with “Phantasms have been removed as a skill type”.

Carighan.6758:

Photoloss.4817:

+%dmg upon shattering a phantasm, like Berserker’s Power?

Hrm, maybe. Frankly I’d prefer a set of patchnotes which start with “Phantasms have been removed as a skill type”.

Agreed, the phantasm mechanic doesn’t work.

I wouldn’t go that far as to completely remove the mechanic.

It’s the interaction between short term single target summoned illusions and the shatter mechanic which causes problems. One of each on its own is balancable, both makes it very hard.

It’s also the reason why arenanet have gone both ways so far with taking one of the issues as much as possible out of the equation. With chrono they reduced the penalty of shattering phantasms, with mirage they are increasing the usefulness of clones (as well as limited retarget ability and less relying on shatters). In both cases they are trying to deal with only 1 of the issues at hand.

If I had to make limited quality of life changes to the class as is without major reworks, they would be as follows:

- distinguishable orbs for phantasms and illusions. the game already keeps track of what is what, can’t be that hard to make one point fully colored and the other half full or something or a different color

- expanding on idea 1, use letters or symbols to distinguish phantasms instead of poink dots

- add some form of persistance to illusions as long as the mesmer is in combat. maybe have them auto retarget closes target if need be. This might cause some issues here and there, but usually you have everything taged anyway. this would deal with shatter issues somewhat

better video !!!

Falados.7165:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzYeajnGDC8

better video !!!

Looks like Eles are going to be joining thiefs asking for nerfs because we dare encroach on thier territory. Eles can focus on asking for PvE nerfs and thiefs can focus on PvP. Mesmer is promoting unity between the classes.

Carighan.6758:

Hrm, maybe. Frankly I’d prefer a set of patchnotes which start with “Phantasms have been removed as a skill type”.

No thanks, I actually enjoy the playstyle of splitting up my capacity over multiple independent entities. Haven’t seen any PvE-viable alternative proposals that don’t become the same mechanical piano as any other class just with purple butterflies.

Levetty.1279:

Falados.7165:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzYeajnGDC8

better video !!!

Looks like Eles are going to be joining thiefs asking for nerfs because we dare encroach on thier territory. Eles can focus on asking for PvE nerfs and thiefs can focus on PvP. Mesmer is promoting unity between the classes.

Yup, called it. It’s been barely 2 days since the patch (1 if you had the luck to be playing on EU servers which were down) and the salt is real.

Funny, no one was complaining when mesmers had to tank, boonshare and distort as chrono which was harder than most damage dealer rotations (and far more important to get executed properly) but dare and behold we get a simple damage rotation its wacka wacka.

Where was the thief hate when they were pulling high dps with autoattack rotations?

Where is the guardian hate atm for being top dps?

Also Staff elementalist doesn’t pull 28k, he does 35k+ atm. Always good to throw in some false facts to make people rage even more. Why exectly is this guy with quantify?

Cyninja.2954:

Levetty.1279:

Falados.7165:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzYeajnGDC8

better video !!!

Looks like Eles are going to be joining thiefs asking for nerfs because we dare encroach on thier territory. Eles can focus on asking for PvE nerfs and thiefs can focus on PvP. Mesmer is promoting unity between the classes.

Yup, called it. It’s been barely 2 days since the patch (1 if you had the luck to be playing on EU servers which were down) and the salt is real.

Funny, no one was complaining when mesmers had to tank, boonshare and distort as chrono which was harder than most damage dealer rotations (and far more important to get executed properly) but dare and behold we get a simple damage rotation its wacka wacka.

Where was the thief hate when they were pulling high dps with autoattack rotations?

Where is the guardian hate atm for being top dps?

Also Staff elementalist doesn’t pull 28k, he does 35k+ atm. Always good to throw in some false facts to make people rage even more. Why exectly is this guy with quantify?

The thief hate was and still is real with their incredibly simple high damage auto attack rotations. Heck DD core thief was pulling the same numbers as this with a 2 button (ok three if you count steal) rotation.

Many don’t actually realise the mechanical limitations or the ramp up time, though so they flock like seals slapping their fins going “nerf, nerf, nerf”.

Many will hate this build because it is literally summon 3 swordsman and then sort of afk pressing 2 when off cool down after an auto chain. For that I feel they are somewhat justified in their criticism.

DD Pistol/Pistol is pulling around 30-200k per burst so try it

Falados.7165:

30-200k

One of these things isn’t like the other :thinking:

apharma.3741:

Many will hate this build because it is literally summon 3 swordsman and then sort of afk pressing 2 when off cool down after an auto chain. For that I feel they are somewhat justified in their criticism.

Sadly that is how mesmer is designed. I suspect that Mirage will be in the same spot. Whether it uses clones or phantasms in the end.
If we were to use more of our kit the dps would decrease.

• Every newly summoned clone/phantasm is a dps loss
• every shatter is a dps loss

The problem is that 2-3 skills on our weapon bar are summons which means we’re stuck with 2 skills to use (autoattack and one dps skill).

Me Games Ma.8426:

apharma.3741:

Many will hate this build because it is literally summon 3 swordsman and then sort of afk pressing 2 when off cool down after an auto chain. For that I feel they are somewhat justified in their criticism.

Sadly that is how mesmer is designed. I suspect that Mirage will be in the same spot. Whether it uses clones or phantasms in the end.
If we were to use more of our kit the dps would decrease.

• Every newly summoned clone/phantasm is a dps loss
• every shatter is a dps loss

The problem is that 2-3 skills on our weapon bar are summons which means we’re stuck with 2 skills to use (autoattack and one dps skill).

Yeah that is my biggest concern as well. And I am probably going to miss Chronophantasma and the old Persistance of Memory when playing Mirage.

Me Games Ma.8426:

Sadly that is how mesmer is designed. I suspect that Mirage will be in the same spot. Whether it uses clones or phantasms in the end.
If we were to use more of our kit the dps would decrease.

Maybe we’d need some mechanic akin to what Samuro from Heroes of the Storm has.

One of his ultimate talents is that he can manually control his illusions, using buttons to swap active control.

Ofc, if you use this you’d need some sort of top-down view, controlling your mesmer and the clones/phantasms like in a strategy game.

(but kitten , actually that sounds pretty fun)

Me Games Ma.8426:

apharma.3741:

Many will hate this build because it is literally summon 3 swordsman and then sort of afk pressing 2 when off cool down after an auto chain. For that I feel they are somewhat justified in their criticism.

Sadly that is how mesmer is designed. I suspect that Mirage will be in the same spot. Whether it uses clones or phantasms in the end.
If we were to use more of our kit the dps would decrease.

• Every newly summoned clone/phantasm is a dps loss
• every shatter is a dps loss

The problem is that 2-3 skills on our weapon bar are summons which means we’re stuck with 2 skills to use (autoattack and one dps skill).

I’ve written it in the past but in my opinion they should remove phantasms and instead have attacks that do damage and leave behind a clone. You can then swap places with the clone for up to 5s after. They can then put various damage traits in trait lines to give a power dps rotation where you use 3-5 skills in a rotation with weapon swap, same with condition damage in some ways. It also allows much more control over play styles for the mesmer, you can make sustained damage higher if it’s lacking without affecting burst (mindwrack) and if burst is too high you can adjust as needed.

It would also do another thing, make mesmer actually feel like an illusionist as they would be a decent amount of clone swapping going on, as long as they’re not instakilled by auto attacks.

Regardless the phantasm mechanic has been a lazy way to play for the entire game as well as being mechanically bad. It’s no excuse to be 5 years into a game and this not have been addressed. Phantasms don’t work for anything but higher health shatter fodder in PvP/WvW either so it’s not like there’s a reason to keep it as is anyway.

apharma.3741:

It would also do another thing, make mesmer actually feel like an illusionist as they would be a decent amount of clone swapping going on, as long as they’re not instakilled by auto attacks.

It also a much better way of doing this whole ‘confuse enemies so they don’t know which is you and which is the clone’ then Mirages ‘here is a worse dodge skill, waste a GM slot actually giving it to your clones so you can do what we are claiming you can do’

apharma.3741:

Regardless the phantasm mechanic has been a lazy way to play for the entire game as well as being mechanically bad. It’s no excuse to be 5 years into a game and this not have been addressed. Phantasms don’t work for anything but higher health shatter fodder in PvP/WvW either so it’s not like there’s a reason to keep it as is anyway.

Guardian spirit weapons are now a better phantasm mechanic then what we have.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6szbmy/dps_benchmarks_power_mesmer_305k309k_power/

In case anyone wondering if qT is testing this, here’s the version

Props for testing as always! But it does strikes me that mes can easily pull out 30k as oppose to ele with a lot more rotations required (hence more likely to mess up in real raid scenario).

All jokings aside, we now have 2 spare utilities outside of 900 breakbar CC moa, which can easily be used for distort share/feedback with just sacrificing very minimal condi addons that doesn’t really matter to power build. These will significantly improve party survival if chrono were too busy with their rotations (or even extra signet of inspiration if your chrono aren’t good with quickness).

EDIT: ah nvm someone posted the vid

Yea I think that throwing SoI on the bar for Pugging isn’t a bad idea. Helps give a small buffer to the quickness chrono in case they mess up their rotation.

zealex.9410:

Thats why giving mirage torment confusion is a bad call. It should have been a bleed soec with minor confusion torment through traits.

Why? Now that torment and confusion do same baseline damage as bleed but with a bonus, those conditions are good in PvE.