Guild Wars 2

Yep, the GS is great for spiking assassins from across the room.

Valarauka.2719:

Yep, the GS is great for spiking assassins from across the room.

• Run starts: The first 3 shamans, pulled to the edge (focus 4) casting a warden and blurred frenzy and then burst them with with a GS phantasm aswell interrupting them all again (gs 5).
• First nest + devourers: Stay at the autostack spot and open with GS burst and immediately switch to sword for the rest of the time. Works better than some crappy single target phantasms – again
• Aswell dealing with the devourer nests: Starting with warden and sword to kill the farest 2 nests and then i just damage multiple nests in a line with GS and phantasm since sword cleave is too small.
• Then the 3 fire shamans: Pulled to the wall (focus) and keep them at the wall with gs 5. Somehow they allways start to move again
• Spiking Assas ye
• Final “Boss” seems easier to attack starting on range while moving melee. Burst phantasm. Useful than just “walk” to it :P

CoF p2 is a great GS dungeon, but p1 I’ll never even touch it.

+1 to thread, would read again.

More seriously though; few are as protective of their weapon preferences as Mesmers. Threads like these teach scrubs like me a lot about many combos. Thanks for all the testing and theory crafting done, guys.

The thing with GW2 dungeons is that you don’t need optimal builds and comps to complete them, outside of fotm 40+.

•Run starts: The first 3 shamans, pulled to the edge (focus 4) casting a warden and blurred frenzy and then burst them with with a GS phantasm aswell interrupting them all again (gs 5).

Or… swap to off-hand pistol and stun and daze while not completely gimping your DPS with GS? Assuming a warrior in the party, they have mace 5 knockdown too. Assuming a guard, binding blade. I’m sure other classes have access to CC too.

•Then the 3 fire shamans: Pulled to the wall (focus) and keep them at the wall with gs 5. Somehow they allways start to move again

Is the whole group stacked and cleaving?

•Final “Boss” seems easier to attack starting on range while moving melee. Burst phantasm. Useful than just “walk” to it :P

How is iZerker “burst”? Since the final boss is an object, on 0/20/0/25/25 you’ll deal about 2.7k damage (+ any might stacks if you have any) versus the 2.4k on duelist and 2.2k on swordsman. Plus if you had sword on both main hands you could swap between your two off-hands to get 3 phants up if you wanted to while still dealing nice auto damage.

I still can’t figure out how a phantasm that deals slightly higher damage per cycle, but has a slower recharge than the two best DPS phantasms is meant to be considered “burst”. Do you just mean tagging mobs?

The thing with GW2 dungeons is that you don’t need optimal builds and comps to complete them, outside of fotm 40+.

This is still not an excuse to use bad traits, bad gear and bad weapons. On my warrior I have off-hand maces of smothering, seeking and undead slaying even though COE an COF are faceroll. Not saying everyone should do the same, but in those cases, at least night and force.

Also, thanks to whoever reported me on this forum four days ago, you earned me a suspension, a removed signature and 15 minutes cooldown between posts, got to love how asking someone to play good is “rude, condescending or inflammatory”.

The thing with GW2 dungeons is that you don’t need optimal builds and comps to complete them, outside of fotm 40+.

This is still not an excuse to use bad traits, bad gear and bad weapons. On my warrior I have off-hand maces of smothering, seeking and undead slaying even though COE an COF are faceroll. Not saying everyone should do the same, but in those cases, at least night and force.

Right but in the context of this topic and the subsequent topic of how the Mesmer Greatsword is bad is an old argument that is moot at best. I’d welcome a more in depth discussion on the matter if someone wanted to min/max their character for optimal damage and quick dungeon runs. People do respond in these type of threads with good information but far too often their elitist side comes out saying how crap a certain weapon is. It’s not relevant to the topic and leads to the bickering back and forth which is silly to say the least.

At the end of the day, it still comes down to to use whatever weapon you feel comfortable with and build for dungeons (again, outside of fotm 40+).

This kind of business is why I:
1.) Carry all weapon types for any class I dungeon-hop with.
and
2.) Tend to only run with guildies.

That way, I can run a workable (Mesmer’s usually 0/20/0/25/25 in pve) build, and tailor my utilities/weapons to the situation. Don’t get me wrong, we still can (and do) get wiped on occasion, but it’s at least less stressful for all parties involved.

Right but in the context of this topic and the subsequent topic of how the Mesmer Greatsword is bad is an old argument that is moot at best. I’d welcome a more in depth discussion on the matter if someone wanted to min/max their character for optimal damage and quick dungeon runs.

Guang, DuckDuckBOOM and some others have already looked at the numbers, sword > GS. I’m not going to dig out the posts, but that should be common sense anyway since melee > range is the rule in GW2.

People do respond in these type of threads with good information but far too often their elitist side comes out saying how crap a certain weapon is.

That’s not elitism, that’s stating fact. Main-hand sword is bad on a PvE warrior. Greatsword is bad on a PvE mesmer. Unless you can tell me how a weapon with zero utility and weak auto attack isn’t crap? Are you going to give me the iZerker tags mobs argument? Becaue you know, that’s extremely important in dungeons.

/sarcasm

It’s not relevant to the topic and leads to the bickering back and forth which is silly to say the least.

Why yes, I’m sure telling people a weapon is bad is completely irrelevant to a thread about the best weapons for dungeons. It’s telling them what weapons to avoid.

At the end of the day, it still comes down to to use whatever weapon you feel comfortable with and build for dungeons (again, outside of fotm 40+).

Personal preference has no factor in what the best weapons are for dungeons, unless you want to tell us all about how LB/SB is the best weapon set for bearbow rangers to use, because they like it. This play how you want attitude needs to stop, all it does is encourage people to want to be carried, and then when there’s no well-geared, experienced zerker to carry you through it turns dungeon runs in to three hour torture trains.

That way, I can run a workable (Mesmer’s usually 0/20/0/25/25 in pve) build, and tailor my utilities/weapons to the situation. Don’t get me wrong, we still can (and do) get wiped on occasion, but it’s at least less stressful for all parties involved.

I do that regardless of who I run with, that’s what every player is meant to do.

colesy.8490:

•Run starts: The first 3 shamans, pulled to the edge (focus 4) casting a warden and blurred frenzy and then burst them with with a GS phantasm aswell interrupting them all again (gs 5).

Or… swap to off-hand pistol and stun and daze while not completely gimping your DPS with GS? Assuming a warrior in the party, they have mace 5 knockdown too. Assuming a guard, binding blade. I’m sure other classes have access to CC too.

•Then the 3 fire shamans: Pulled to the wall (focus) and keep them at the wall with gs 5. Somehow they allways start to move again

Is the whole group stacked and cleaving?

•Final “Boss” seems easier to attack starting on range while moving melee. Burst phantasm. Useful than just “walk” to it :P

How is iZerker “burst”? Since the final boss is an object, on 0/20/0/25/25 you’ll deal about 2.7k damage (+ any might stacks if you have any) versus the 2.4k on duelist and 2.2k on swordsman. Plus if you had sword on both main hands you could swap between your two off-hands to get 3 phants up if you wanted to while still dealing nice auto damage.

I still can’t figure out how a phantasm that deals slightly higher damage per cycle, but has a slower recharge than the two best DPS phantasms is meant to be considered “burst”. Do you just mean tagging mobs?

The thing with GW2 dungeons is that you don’t need optimal builds and comps to complete them, outside of fotm 40+.

This is still not an excuse to use bad traits, bad gear and bad weapons. On my warrior I have off-hand maces of smothering, seeking and undead slaying even though COE an COF are faceroll. Not saying everyone should do the same, but in those cases, at least night and force.

Also, thanks to whoever reported me on this forum four days ago, you earned me a suspension, a removed signature and 15 minutes cooldown between posts, got to love how asking someone to play good is “rude, condescending or inflammatory”.

I reported you like a month ago, nothing happened. Im glad the mods are finally doing something >_>

And yet despite people here baiting me and you (and I think a few others) outright just calling me a troll (which I’m pretty sure falls under “rude, condescending or inflammatory”) I haven’t reported any of you.

It’s a shame you can’t extend the same courtesy, as much as you all might despise “dungeon elitists”, most of us, if not all have a sort of unwritten rule not to report anyone whether they’re insulting us or not. Instead, when you get your build choices criticised, modbot gets called in, and all of us who are simply saying things that can be tested in game get repeatedly smacked with warnings and suspensions; I have in excess of twenty infractions by now.

Do you know what would happen if everyone who was like me got banned? We would have a stagnant warrior/guardian/mesmer dungeon metagame where all other classes are excluded because people wouldn’t know better. The only thing that makes me feel better is that the people who message me in game are grateful for my attempts to educate, but on the forum I am merely insulted, ridiculed and worst of all, punished by forum moderation itself just for telling people how things in the game work.

colesy.8490:

Do you know what would happen if everyone who was like me got banned? We would have a stagnant warrior/guardian/mesmer dungeon metagame where all other classes are excluded because people wouldn’t know better.

Optimist. We would be still running Necros because their dark field are required for blind. :-P

colesy.8490:

Why yes, I’m sure telling people a weapon is bad is completely irrelevant to a thread about the best weapons for dungeons. It’s telling them what weapons to avoid.

That is just it, you aren’t just answering the question. They are asking what is best, not a insulting rant on what you consider bad.

As for your suspension, the mods don’t just hand those out because someone complained, they have to see that the reason was valid. Which apparently they felt the complaint was justified.

The truth is, you do come off aggresive, rude and insulting. You cannot force your ideals and opinions on people and then go raging when they decide they want to go in another direction. Live and let live. Don’t worry how others are playing.

It has already been said, to grow your friends list with like minded people and run with your guild to avoid those you deem less desirable.

colesy.8490:

Do you know what would happen if everyone who was like me got banned?

The Mesmer forum would go back to the state it was before you came here. “The only reason you use GS is youre bad at useless to your group. you might aswell not exist” statements will be replaced by “Just do whatever you want, as long as you carry all weapons with you and use 25 inspiration. Choose traits that you think are fun” statements.

colesy.8490:

The only thing that makes me feel better is that the people who message me in game are grateful for my attempts to educate,

You know… I always thought you had alot of ‘teaching’ potential and knew alot about dungeoning, and I still do. I’ve got to admit I never bothered going with double sword mainhand, and I’ve definitely been missing out.
Helping people makes you feel fullfilled, like you’re doing something kind/important, and thats a good thing! It means you’re good at something, and want to help those who are less fortunate with talents like yours.

colesy.8490:

but on the forum I am merely insulted, ridiculed and worst of all, punished by forum moderation itself just for telling people how things in the game work.

Do you ever ask yourself why? What is the difference between in-game and forum? Perhaps people who are already in game are more willing to test something, or maybe its easier to explain things in real-time. I don’t know, I never actually met you in game. You do, however say youre a very pleasant person to hang out with, and I guess I’ll believe you on that untill proven otherwise.

It doesn’t take a genius to figure something isn’t right with the way you type on the forums, though. People getting upset, and stuff.

If you want, you can reflect on why people refuse to listen to you. It’s not easy, because chatting over the internet is alot harder than irl.

But I think I speak for most of us when I say: we can help you. It would be a waste to let your experience and willingness to teach go away. If you feel like you just want to talk with someone about things in private, feel free to PM anyone.

Sure, we can report you, and we’ll have one less person who upsets people here, but would that really be the best solution?
No, it wouldn’t. Getting rid of experienced people is the opposite of what we want to achieve here: help newer people.

We won’t report you away, but others will, that’s for sure. The only question left is: how much are you willing to change to stay here?

Optimist. We would be still running Necros because their dark field are required for blind. :-P

Necros are actually pretty decent in ascalon fractal with their blind spam, it’s just a shame that in the full overview of things, necros are the only class that don’t properly support the group. Another issue is the lack of cleave.

That is just it, you aren’t just answering the question. They are asking what is best, not a insulting rant on what you consider bad.

This question has been answered a billion times. Main hand sword and focus, pistol and sword as offhands are best for dungeons. Carry a ranged weapon in your bag for situations like Melandru in Arah p4, but beyond that … sword, focus and pistol covers everything since forced range situations are very fringe.

As for your suspension, the mods don’t just hand those out because someone complained, they have to see that the reason was valid. Which apparently they felt the complaint was justified.

Dub reported one of his own posts which he made sure wasn’t even insulting and got an infraction. Yeah, mods don’t read reports as thoroughly as you think.

The Mesmer forum would go back to the state it was before you came here. “The only reason you use GS is youre bad at useless to your group. you might aswell not exist” statements will be replaced by “Just do whatever you want, as long as you carry all weapons with you and use 25 inspiration. Choose traits that you think are fun” statements.

If someone asks what is best for a situation, it’s not appropriate to say “play how you want”, the most you should stretch yourself is by saying “X is the best weapon for situation Y, but if uncomfortable using X, then use Z”. Saying someone can play how they want doesn’t add anything to a discussion besides feel-good, and if somebody wants to feel good about themselves … well I wouldn’t really think of going to the internet where people like me exist.

It doesn’t take a genius to figure something isn’t right with the way you type on the forums, though. People getting upset, and stuff.

If you want, you can reflect on why people refuse to listen to you. It’s not easy, because chatting over the internet is alot harder than irl.

I wouldn’t say my posting was fully within the rule boundaries at all, no, but when it’s my offensive posts that get left and my posts saying something like “please be one of the good players who doesn’t camp range” are the ones getting slammed with infractions, something isn’t right. That is purely someone feeling kitten reporting me on no basis in the terms of service besides that they don’t like my disagreeing with them.

You all know I will never be a carebear telling people to play how they want, but I think it’s disgusting that I’m getting suspended just for having an aggressive argumentative style while useless people continue to remain on the forum (speaking generally here, most of my infractions are from general discussion and dungeon forum), spewing giant piles of nothing and deceiving helpless newbies looking for advice.

There’s a difference between saying “choice X is best but feel free to run Y” and “Y is good to use” when it’s a flat out lie. It’s the latter I have the problem with, it annoys me to no end seeing people do it.

Alissah.9281:

We won’t report you away, but others will, that’s for sure. The only question left is: how much are you willing to change to stay here?

colesy.8490:

If someone asks what is best for a situation, it’s not appropriate to say “play how you want”, the most you should stretch yourself is by saying “X is the best weapon for situation Y, but if uncomfortable using X, then use Z”. Saying someone can play how they want doesn’t add anything to a discussion besides feel-good, and if somebody wants to feel good about themselves … well I wouldn’t really think of going to the internet where people like me exist.

That definitely looks like improvement ^^
However, I don’t think he really needs to change that much and I also find it sad that he was reported. I’ve posted math/numbers while trying to remain as emotionally neutral as possible. My numbers happen to align with what Colesy is saying. I then get branded as an elitist and flammed… for doing math. He stated sword>gs and people hate him so much for that, that even I get crap for proving him right.

Sure, he is caustic but I don’t think he deserves nearly as much flack as he gets. He cant even make a joke without being yelled at. At this point, I think most people hate him for the sake of hating him. Out of curiosity Alissah, did you even think to report the people that you agreed with? I didn’t but I think there are a lot more people than Colesy that deserved a report with all the recent GS vs sword arguments.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Alissah.9281:

We won’t report you away, but others will, that’s for sure. The only question left is: how much are you willing to change to stay here?

colesy.8490:

If someone asks what is best for a situation, it’s not appropriate to say “play how you want”, the most you should stretch yourself is by saying “X is the best weapon for situation Y, but if uncomfortable using X, then use Z”. Saying someone can play how they want doesn’t add anything to a discussion besides feel-good, and if somebody wants to feel good about themselves … well I wouldn’t really think of going to the internet where people like me exist.

That definitely looks like improvement ^^
However, I don’t think he really needs to change that much and I also find it sad that he was reported. I’ve posted math/numbers while trying to remain as emotionally neutral as possible. My numbers happen to align with what Colesy is saying. I then get branded as an elitist and flammed… for doing math. He stated sword>gs and people hate him so much for that, that even I get crap for proving him right.

Sure, he is caustic but I don’t think he deserves nearly as much flack as he gets. He cant even make a joke without being yelled at. At this point, I think most people hate him for the sake of hating him. Out of curiosity Alissah, did you even think to report the people that you agreed with? I didn’t but I think there are a lot more people than Colesy that deserved a report with all the recent GS vs sword arguments.

I havent been reading these threads thoroughly, usually just the OP and a few of the last posts. If youre just posting maths numbers to support Colesy, and you get flamed for that… Then those people are just childish. “Hating for the sake of hating”, I dont understand that :/.

And you do make a point, Im sure there are others with a very aggresive writing style, that get defensive on subjects like this, myself included in past threads, I think. But im not an everyday “hate for the sake of hating” person. Im actually a very decent Mesmer who doesnt believe things untill I saw it myself. Things like “X isnt viable” or “you cant kill a necro without condi removal”. I actually have been using alot of sword/sword lately, all because of one of the first discussions here.

Its a usefull discussion, thats not the problem. The problem is that calling people “useless to their team, they might aswell not exist” has a very negative effect on them. Usually that makes them go defensive or upset instead of going “oh, I never thought about thag before, now I can improve my dps by 500%”!

I feel like if you replaced all possibly offending words with slightly more neutral words, some people would suddenly start listening. There sill always be others that judge you by your name or past, but those dont matter anyway.

Yesterday I found this thing. Im not sure exactly what it is, but im pretty sure the top is the best way to disagree with something, and the bottom is the worst.
Right now, youre using counter arguments, which is great and already very high. “Sword does higher dps and gives you 2 good single target phantasms instead of one”. Its a very good counter argument.
The people who “hate for the sake of hating” are mostly in the yellow and lower part, responding to tone. Judging by this, I’d say you automatically win the argument, even though the yellow people dont accept it. However, all those people complaining looks really bad on an awesome forum like this, and the trick would be to change your tone on such a way, that they cant critisize it.

You dont have to respond to “yellow people”, because you already beat them. You also dont have to repeat or improve your argument, because those same people add nothing new to the discussion you can respond to.

All you can do is make them completely dissapear by changing your tone.

Im not saying you have to change alot, just a few words here in there :/.

That said, I think your last post(s) were an improvement. (I was talking to colesy btw)

Now if only the general populus around here would improve.

Just play Greatsword/Greatsword whenever colesy is looking.
You need one for the AE sigil, one for the single-target sigil, mind you!

colesy.8490:

•Run starts: The first 3 shamans, pulled to the edge (focus 4) casting a warden and blurred frenzy and then burst them with with a GS phantasm aswell interrupting them all again (gs 5).

Or… swap to off-hand pistol and stun and daze while not completely gimping your DPS with GS? Assuming a warrior in the party, they have mace 5 knockdown too. Assuming a guard, binding blade. I’m sure other classes have access to CC too.

•Then the 3 fire shamans: Pulled to the wall (focus) and keep them at the wall with gs 5. Somehow they allways start to move again

Is the whole group stacked and cleaving?

•Final “Boss” seems easier to attack starting on range while moving melee. Burst phantasm. Useful than just “walk” to it :P

How is iZerker “burst”? Since the final boss is an object, on 0/20/0/25/25 you’ll deal about 2.7k damage (+ any might stacks if you have any) versus the 2.4k on duelist and 2.2k on swordsman. Plus if you had sword on both main hands you could swap between your two off-hands to get 3 phants up if you wanted to while still dealing nice auto damage.

I still can’t figure out how a phantasm that deals slightly higher damage per cycle, but has a slower recharge than the two best DPS phantasms is meant to be considered “burst”. Do you just mean tagging mobs?

I’m tired of you so I’ll make it quick:

→ Why should I switch to a crappy off-hand pistol who does the same interrupt but has only 1/3 strengh phantasm? Gimping my DpS with GS? I’m sorry if you are too lazy to move into a position to hit 3 enemies with the AA so it deals just about 20% less than the Sword aa. However, the phantasms outdamages the duellist so much, the 20% less damage aren’t even noticeable, especially if I just do about 2-3 aa’s with the GS since the enemies are approximately down by now cuz’ the mesmer used its AoE potential instead of “good dps single target offhand phantasms”.

→ The whole group is stacked and cleaving and everything what happens is about the same as above. The enemies normally die before I even get used to spam GS aa.

→ It’s burst since it doesnt miss an attack since it struggles at the top of the stone. Id won’t deal 2.7k instead of 2.4/2.2k, it will deal about 3.2k. Also you can spam 2 and 3 while moving toward the stone to melee him. But it’s okay colesy you might not know how the GS works on certain enemies since you never ever use it. I forgive you.

You only critizism what you think is wrong, but I’ve never seen a post of you quoting somone and saying “yes this is a good point, you’re right”.

Curious, have you tried playing without using a Greatsword?

? Why should I switch to a crappy off-hand pistol who does the same interrupt but has only 1/3 strengh phantasm? Gimping my DpS with GS?

You switch to pistol for magic bullet, not the phantasm. Going Sw/P allows you to cleave with the main hand sword which will out DPS the GS.

I’m sorry if you are too lazy to move into a position to hit 3 enemies with the AA so it deals just about 20% less than the Sword aa.

So you are either close range making the damage suck, or long range meaning you’re not receiving boons. Your DPS will be bad. Worst case scenario, your party’s DPS sucks even more and you aggro the mobs, ungrouping them.

However, the phantasms outdamages the duellist so much, the 20% less damage aren’t even noticeable, especially if I just do about 2-3 aa’s with the GS since the enemies are approximately down by now cuz’ the mesmer used its AoE potential instead of “good dps single target offhand phantasms”.

You shouldn’t be switching to GS just for the phantasm if the remainder of the abilities compromise your DPS to the point that you were better off just cleaving with sword.

The whole group is stacked and cleaving and everything what happens is about the same as above. The enemies normally die before I even get used to spam GS aa.

Then why use GS in the first place if you can just stack and cleave with them?

It’s burst since it doesnt miss an attack since it struggles at the top of the stone. Id won’t deal 2.7k instead of 2.4/2.2k, it will deal about 3.2k. Also you can spam 2 and 3 while moving toward the stone to melee him. But it’s okay colesy you might not know how the GS works on certain enemies since you never ever use it. I forgive you.

2.7k assuming all four hits, I’m pretty sure you read the thread. If only three hits connected it would drop to 2.1k anyway, but since the boss is an object, all four hits connect. And why not drop duelist and swordsman on the way to the stone instead? That sets up two phantasms and then you can melee away with our strongest weapon.

You only critizism what you think is wrong, but I’ve never seen a post of you quoting somone and saying “yes this is a good point, you’re right”.

If people would stop being wrong then maybe I could.

This transition in to accepting the GS is weak is long and difficult for many of you but you’ll get there eventually.

@ Xavi:

Of course I have – I don’t know how many players are doing what I am doing, but if somone tells me “this is better than that” I test it. Sure I post right away here my expections and expiriences. But I’m happy to learn new things instead of beeing focused on my own opinion.
Maybe it has been too long since I did it last time with what weapon ever you prefer instead of GS / Sword Focus. I know the GS aa is not as strong as the sword’s. But if you can prevent using it, the GS is an awesome weapon even in melee (for example open with 2, 3, 4 and switch to sword for the rest of the fight wich often lasts just 10~ sec anyways (CoF p2)).

Or can you tell me something new?

colesy.8490:

You switch to pistol for magic bullet, not the phantasm. Going Sw/P allows you to cleave with the main hand sword which will out DPS the GS.

Hm …. let’s see … Shall I pick cleave + magic bullet (duellist is useless here, nice you agree with me), or shall I pick cleave + aoe phantasm + aoe interrupt? Hm … so hard to decide … not -.-‘’ As long as you prevent using GS aa, the GS outdamages the sword. So just use it as opener or finisher if you can’t make good use of it.

colesy.8490:

So you are either close range making the damage suck, or long range meaning you’re not receiving boons. Your DPS will be bad. Worst case scenario, your party’s DPS sucks even more and you aggro the mobs, ungrouping them.

In this case I use 5, 4, 2 and 3 and there is no more need for aa’s since the enemy is dead. Why should I switch earlier? The whole szenario lasts about 10 seconds…

colesy.8490:

You shouldn’t be switching to GS just for the phantasm if the remainder of the abilities compromise your DPS to the point that you were better off just cleaving with sword.

Finishing burst + interrupt…

colesy.8490:

Then why use GS in the first place if you can just stack and cleave with them?

Still the same answer … 3rd time …

colesy.8490:

2.7k assuming all four hits, I’m pretty sure you read the thread. If only three hits connected it would drop to 2.1k anyway, but since the boss is an object, all four hits connect. And why not drop duelist and swordsman on the way to the stone instead? That sets up two phantasms and then you can melee away with our strongest weapon.

Hm … so I cast duellist, then swordsman then walk … and walk …. now I’m melee and start attacking OR I cast 4, 2, 1, 1, switch, phantasm offhand, melee. The swordsman will outdamage the izerker but since this object doesn’t bleed, the duellist won’t. So I just take the swordsman offhand, tyvm.

colesy.8490:

If people would stop being wrong then maybe I could.

Maybe you should just start with it already – since you simply “didn’t answer / notice” some points in my original post – those points where you realized you were wrong. Better not talk about it eh?

colesy.8490:

This transition in to accepting the GS is weak is long and difficult for many of you but you’ll get there eventually.

And it’s even a longer way until you reached the level where you start to use every weapon aslong as you can make good use of it, before judging them without even trying. Colesy you are definitly not the master player you wanna be, not like you are acting here all the time.

I use every weapon when the situation arises for all my classes. I havent used the gs on mesmer for months. Theres only one place I would use it and thats on melandru in arah p4 because piercing is good when those pesky trees get in the way.

Hm …. let’s see … Shall I pick cleave + magic bullet (duellist is useless here, nice you agree with me), or shall I pick cleave + aoe phantasm + aoe interrupt?

What cleave? You mean the GS’ piercing auto? Yeah, I think we’ve gone over how it’s bad.

As long as you prevent using GS aa, the GS outdamages the sword. So just use it as opener or finisher if you can’t make good use of it.

Does it really? Mirror blade & mind stab > sword auto chain? DPS in this game is very autoattack-centric, you should know this. It’s why sword/focus on guardian tends to just involve 111-ing for the win, because everything besides focus 5 is a personal DPS loss.

In this case I use 5, 4, 2 and 3 and there is no more need for aa’s since the enemy is dead. Why should I switch earlier? The whole szenario lasts about 10 seconds…

So basically you’re desperately trying to make up for the poor auto DPS by usinga knockback which is a DPS loss, a poor phantasm and two other skills which are out-DPS’d by sword auto. The way I see it, you’re better off going curtain warden and then about 3 1/2 sword auto chains, or 2 1/2 chains and a blurred frenzy since it’s a DPS gain provided you don’t interrupt the chain.

Finishing burst + interrupt…

There is no burst, and pistol has an interrupt. Burst is something like hundred blades + whirlwind attack in to a wall, phantasms are just sustained DPS.

Hm … so I cast duellist, then swordsman then walk … and walk …. now I’m melee and start attacking OR I cast 4, 2, 1, 1, switch, phantasm offhand, melee. The swordsman will outdamage the izerker but since this object doesn’t bleed, the duellist won’t. So I just take the swordsman offhand, tyvm.

What actually happens is you go in to 1,200 range, cast duelist (1s cast time), swap once in combat for three stacks of might, cast swordsman (900 range?), illusionary leap, swap, melee. But apparently that’s too difficult for you, you’d rather use trashsword for no real reason.

Maybe you should just start with it already – since you simply “didn’t answer / notice” some points in my original post – those points where you realized you were wrong. Better not talk about it eh?

I ignore points that aren’t worth answering.

And it’s even a longer way until you reached the level where you start to use every weapon aslong as you can make good use of it, before judging them without even trying. Colesy you are definitly not the master player you wanna be, not like you are acting here all the time.

And yet I never actually claim to be a master player at all, just someone who uses common sense and takes the most rational path to something (more damage? melee!). “Use every weapon aslong as you can make good use of it” just sounds like play how you want spiel, there are weapons in this game which should just flat out not be used in dungeon fights, like guardian mace, warrior main hand sword and mesmer off hand torch.

colesy.8490:

What cleave? You mean the GS’ piercing auto? Yeah, I think we’ve gone over how it’s bad.

Oh sorry I forgot that GS user use GS/GS in their weaponset.

colesy.8490:

Does it really? Mirror blade & mind stab > sword auto chain? DPS in this game is very autoattack-centric, you should know this. It’s why sword/focus on guardian tends to just involve 111-ing for the win, because everything besides focus 5 is a personal DPS loss.

True, I also don’t summon any phantasms on my guardian.

colesy.8490:

So basically you’re desperately trying to make up for the poor auto DPS by usinga knockback which is a DPS loss, a poor phantasm and two other skills which are out-DPS’d by sword auto. The way I see it, you’re better off going curtain warden and then about 3 1/2 sword auto chains, or 2 1/2 chains and a blurred frenzy since it’s a DPS gain provided you don’t interrupt the chain.

The knockback is as much a DpS loss as the magic bullet is. The same “poor” phantasm that outdamages your lovely duellist / swordsman? It’s cute how you still persist that everything is single target, even if you are facing 3 enemies. How much time does it take for a iD / iS to deal 24k damage? Hopefully less than 7 seconds (untraited).

colesy.8490:

There is no burst, and pistol has an interrupt. Burst is something like hundred blades + whirlwind attack in to a wall, phantasms are just sustained DPS.

Hundred blades over an hour is just sustained dps too. Stop it already – any phantasm does some kind of burst after wich it goes into sleep mode. Burst simply means a high amount of damage over a short amount of time. If you summon something in the end of a battle you finish the enemy with a burst and definitly not with “sustained damage” …

colesy.8490:

What actually happens is you go in to 1,200 range, cast duelist (1s cast time), swap once in combat for three stacks of might, cast swordsman (900 range?), illusionary leap, swap, melee. But apparently that’s too difficult for you, you’d rather use trashsword for no real reason.

What’s the difference between you and me? Oh right, I summon a Zerker instead of crappy duellist. Any other difference? Yup, I throw might to allies and then I keep going the same as you. If I see there will be a 2nd wave of acolytes I’m even able to deal damage while already moving back to their spawnpoint.

colesy.8490:

I ignore points that aren’t worth answering.

If I would do so too I’d never ever quoted anything of you. You don’t even seem to wanna learn anything new.

colesy.8490:

And yet I never actually claim to be a master player at all, just someone who uses common sense and takes the most rational path to something (more damage? melee!). “Use every weapon aslong as you can make good use of it” just sounds like play how you want spiel, there are weapons in this game which should just flat out not be used in dungeon fights, like guardian mace, warrior main hand sword and mesmer off hand torch.

Torch is useful in CoF p2 aswell maybe even in TA. There are even more options where you can make use of it, but the torch is indeed just a free cloak ability ooc or a additional condition remover. However since mantrapatch we don’t really need it anymore. Torch seems to have about 0 useage in PvE thats true.

why are people defending gs in terms of dps?? quick burst of damage from 2-4 skills before switching to s/f may seem nice but the other offhands offer nice interrupts/blocks and in the long run increase DPS by a lot more because their phantasms are much better ST DPS.

I will give you that many trash fights involve multiple enemies but most of the enemies should be bunched up (so warden + cleave take care of those), and zerker is …unreliable in how it goes off. for big trash fights I prefer staff for chaos storm over gs though, more by personal preference than anything

also colesy mentioned torch in FIGHTS, it can be used in skips for extra stealth but in fights it’s a waste of an offhand

i’ve read a lot of this type of discussions and i’ve always stopped me from answering one of these threads, people tend to flame too much and seems like they just can only extremes of the argument.

on-topic: if we just look to numbers there is no arguing in saying that s/s+s/f it’s a lot better than GS in terms of DPS, even comparing GS with scepter it’s not very straightforward saying which one is best, but i do agree that scepter now does an interesting damage.

that said we have to keep in mind that playing guild wars 2 it’s just not about numbers, in real in-game situations you’ll find lot’s of situations where GS is going to be extremely usefull. Let it be that running s/s+s/f will 90% of times be the most dps option but that doesn’t mean that will be better option for your group. 90% of the times you won’t have perfect teams and even when you do have them it’s not 100% guaranteed that a fail won’t occur, having a ranged weapon to switch too and be able to survive or even save your team is better than giving a few more dps.
I’ve playing as a mesmer since the BWE, i’m won’t say i’m one of the best out there, but i definitely know how to play my class and i have no trouble running a always melee build, i’m good at it, i know the fights and i survive without much trouble. However i’ve also saved my team a bunch of times for being able to change to range and kiting enough to kill a mob and make them rally, use the skill 5 and rezzing them, etc etc

that said my advice is simple, use s/s or s/f 90% of the times, get used to it, learn to fight at melee range and essentially learn to survive. Personally i prefer s/f over s/s just because i have an extra reflect and i’m able to pull mobs as I wish (aka grouping them so you can just melee the kitten out of it). However keep your GS for a quick switch if needed, yes you’ll loose one phantasm and you’re going to be take longer to pop 3 phantasms (you can always start the fight with the phantasm of the GS, but as already stated a few times on this thread it’s just not as good as the off-hand sword or focus) but despite loosing a small amount of dps you’ll have a good option in case things go bad and if you’re good it’s not that difference that will make your group run slower

TLDR: s/s+s/f is the better option in terms of damage number, in real situations s/+gs will have more benefict