Guild Wars 2

Hm, here’s what’s been annoying me at some points: Manta of Distraction’s charges have a 5 second CD. That might not seem like a lot on paper, but it feels like forever in combat. Plus, I feel like the whole point of mantras is to give us on-immediate-demand skills, thus requiring us to charge them before hand or in combat for whatever consequence. If MoD’s charges, or Power Lock, had a shorter CD, like 2 seconds, I feel it would tremendously increase our potential for lockdown chain-dazing and hitting interrupts when they’re present. Now, my suggestion is obviously to reduce Power Lock’s CD.

However, I realize that such a buff might be taken as OP. It might even be so. Therefore I wanted to take it up with my fellow mesmers and the mesmer community on whether or not this seems like it would be a good idea for a buff or not before sending it out into the Professions Balance forum.

Dondagora.9645:

Hm, here’s what’s been annoying me at some points: Manta of Distraction’s charges have a 5 second CD. That might not seem like a lot on paper, but it feels like forever in combat. Plus, I feel like the whole point of mantras is to give us on-immediate-demand skills, thus requiring us to charge them before hand or in combat for whatever consequence. If MoD’s charges, or Power Lock, had a shorter CD, like 2 seconds, I feel it would tremendously increase our potential for lockdown chain-dazing and hitting interrupts when they’re present. Now, my suggestion is obviously to reduce Power Lock’s CD.

However, I realize that such a buff might be taken as OP. It might even be so. Therefore I wanted to take it up with my fellow mesmers and the mesmer community on whether or not this seems like it would be a good idea for a buff or not before sending it out into the Professions Balance forum.

i use mantra of distraction to interrupt enemy heals x2, its insanely strong as it is instant and u can use it while casting smth else,

i dont think it needs a buff

Just make 3 charges by default for mantras, it would be a good buff then change Harmonious mantras to diff effect maybe reduce chanelling time by 1 sec.

I’m of the opinion MoD is strong as-is with the 5s internal CD. As it is, mesmer has full capabilities through a few different build setups to chain daze/stun/root opponents. MoD is a big part of that. An instant cast daze is incredibly strong. Any stronger and it’d be too powerful.

StickerHappy.8052:

Just make 3 charges by default for mantras, it would be a good buff then change Harmonious mantras to diff effect maybe reduce chanelling time by 1 sec.

I would agree to buff harmonious mantras by reducing the channel time along with providing the current 3 charges. I think 3 charges by default would be a bit too strong. My mantra ideas:

• Empowering Mantras: Increase to 5% damage for each readied mantra.
  More of a PvE change, but would help build diversity in that 1) only take a couple but still gain a nice 10% damage boost or 2) you can go full ham mantras for maximum damage.
• Harmonious Mantras: Decrease channeling time by one second. Gain fury for 5s after a successful mantra channel.
  This would be a great buff for mantra builds while providing mesmer with fury, something they do not have access to unless wielding staff or taking runes that provide it.
• Mantra Mastery: Reduced recharge on mantras. Mantras can be activated three times before needing channeled again.
  This would need moved back to the master tree. The recent move to adept to provide increased build diversity didn’t work because mantras inherently have short recharges, making the trait not worth taking. Adding the three charges along with the reduces recharge makes this trait a viable competitor to DE.
• Protected Mantras: Gain toughness and stability while channeling mantras.
  This is currently a master trait with only the toughness given (ridiculous considering what is competing for this trait). Add stability, maybe decrease the toughness a bit and move it back to Adept.
• Restorative Mantras: Leave as-is.

Make Mantra of Pain AoE by default. If this is too OP, reduce the damage a tad to balance out.

Further on MoD, I’ve stated this before but Imbued Diversion needs a buff to 1) Reduce recharge of Diversion by 20% and 2) Make MoD AoE.

Now all of our mantras are AoE capable by some means or another, greatly increasing build diversity and viability in all areas of the game.

If Mantra of Pain was AoE by default I could see it actually having a use. Definitely support this idea.

skcamow.3527:

I’m of the opinion MoD is strong as-is with the 5s internal CD. As it is, mesmer has full capabilities through a few different build setups to chain daze/stun/root opponents. MoD is a big part of that. An instant cast daze is incredibly strong. Any stronger and it’d be too powerful.

StickerHappy.8052:

Just make 3 charges by default for mantras, it would be a good buff then change Harmonious mantras to diff effect maybe reduce chanelling time by 1 sec.

I would agree to buff harmonious mantras by reducing the channel time along with providing the current 3 charges. I think 3 charges by default would be a bit too strong. My mantra ideas:

• Empowering Mantras: Increase to 5% damage for each readied mantra.
  More of a PvE change, but would help build diversity in that 1) only take a couple but still gain a nice 10% damage boost or 2) you can go full ham mantras for maximum damage.
• Harmonious Mantras: Decrease channeling time by one second. Gain fury for 5s after a successful mantra channel.
  This would be a great buff for mantra builds while providing mesmer with fury, something they do not have access to unless wielding staff or taking runes that provide it.
• Mantra Mastery: Reduced recharge on mantras. Mantras can be activated three times before needing channeled again.
  This would need moved back to the master tree. The recent move to adept to provide increased build diversity didn’t work because mantras inherently have short recharges, making the trait not worth taking. Adding the three charges along with the reduces recharge makes this trait a viable competitor to DE.
• Protected Mantras: Gain toughness and stability while channeling mantras.
  This is currently a master trait with only the toughness given (ridiculous considering what is competing for this trait). Add stability, maybe decrease the toughness a bit and move it back to Adept.
• Restorative Mantras: Leave as-is.

Make Mantra of Pain AoE by default. If this is too OP, reduce the damage a tad to balance out.

Further on MoD, I’ve stated this before but Imbued Diversion needs a buff to 1) Reduce recharge of Diversion by 20% and 2) Make MoD AoE.

Now all of our mantras are AoE capable by some means or another, greatly increasing build diversity and viability in all areas of the game.

I think considering that a small fraction of mesmers actually consider using mantras at all, and considering the sorry state of things for the class overall right now, making the 3 charges baseline would not be OP. Harmonious mantras could then increase charges to 4, or reduce initial charge time by 1 sec like you say.

I run with harmonious mantras right now, and it is not in any way OP, in fact I’m probably gimping myself taking it, but I love MoD and the extra charge is cool. Having it baseline would just mean more mesmer’s might actually consider using it. Even then many will not because they hate the charge up time, and so would still need to take a GM to make it worthwhile to them, or they just can’t give up anything on their utility bar.

MSFone.3026:

skcamow.3527:

I’m of the opinion MoD is strong as-is with the 5s internal CD. As it is, mesmer has full capabilities through a few different build setups to chain daze/stun/root opponents. MoD is a big part of that. An instant cast daze is incredibly strong. Any stronger and it’d be too powerful.

StickerHappy.8052:

Just make 3 charges by default for mantras, it would be a good buff then change Harmonious mantras to diff effect maybe reduce chanelling time by 1 sec.

I would agree to buff harmonious mantras by reducing the channel time along with providing the current 3 charges. I think 3 charges by default would be a bit too strong. My mantra ideas:

• Empowering Mantras: Increase to 5% damage for each readied mantra.
  More of a PvE change, but would help build diversity in that 1) only take a couple but still gain a nice 10% damage boost or 2) you can go full ham mantras for maximum damage.
• Harmonious Mantras: Decrease channeling time by one second. Gain fury for 5s after a successful mantra channel.
  This would be a great buff for mantra builds while providing mesmer with fury, something they do not have access to unless wielding staff or taking runes that provide it.
• Mantra Mastery: Reduced recharge on mantras. Mantras can be activated three times before needing channeled again.
  This would need moved back to the master tree. The recent move to adept to provide increased build diversity didn’t work because mantras inherently have short recharges, making the trait not worth taking. Adding the three charges along with the reduces recharge makes this trait a viable competitor to DE.
• Protected Mantras: Gain toughness and stability while channeling mantras.
  This is currently a master trait with only the toughness given (ridiculous considering what is competing for this trait). Add stability, maybe decrease the toughness a bit and move it back to Adept.
• Restorative Mantras: Leave as-is.

Make Mantra of Pain AoE by default. If this is too OP, reduce the damage a tad to balance out.

Further on MoD, I’ve stated this before but Imbued Diversion needs a buff to 1) Reduce recharge of Diversion by 20% and 2) Make MoD AoE.

Now all of our mantras are AoE capable by some means or another, greatly increasing build diversity and viability in all areas of the game.

I think considering that a small fraction of mesmers actually consider using mantras at all, and considering the sorry state of things for the class overall right now, making the 3 charges baseline would not be OP. Harmonious mantras could then increase charges to 4, or reduce initial charge time by 1 sec like you say.

I run with harmonious mantras right now, and it is not in any way OP, in fact I’m probably gimping myself taking it, but I love MoD and the extra charge is cool. Having it baseline would just mean more mesmer’s might actually consider using it. Even then many will not because they hate the charge up time, and so would still need to take a GM to make it worthwhile to them, or they just can’t give up anything on their utility bar.

4 charges is OP heck 3 charges for MoD is really good, just dont burn out all your charges for obvious skills like AA, 4 charges MoD with CI would be so strong, plus 1 interrupts for each weapon set, SoD, f3, fear rune, thats 9 interrupts in total for a single rotation if you add in chaos storm and get lucky on the dazes + f3 with full clone w/ proper clone positioning you would almost get 15 interrupts!

For me:

By default, reduce channel time of mantras, this would make mantras viable not only Interrupt centered builds. this would still be balanced because you still need to charge them anyway on top of the CD.

Make 3 charges by default.

Make New effect for Harmonious Mantras = Nice name but heck adds 1 charge.
Protected Mantras = Add stability with toughness or Stability + Protection

@skcamow

The Fury Idea would be good for power builds, but how bout condition builds? Unless that build is not running Dueling II

Veruah.5302:

If Mantra of Pain was AoE by default I could see it actually having a use. Definitely support this idea.

Or if it was lifesteal. Or if it reset the attack timer on all of your Illusions.

Actually, I like that last one. It’s useful, but not always the best idea (staggered Wardens become unstaggered).

Mantra reminds me of the old WOW paladin judgement and judging it. But the difference the game is a static combat system while in GW2, it an action combat system.

Using Mantra is very difficult. Once the initial charge has been used up it is a problem when the fight is till going on.

If you are build for mantra damage, you lose all the damage potential, If using for support or utility, again once used up and the fight continues, you are more a sitting duck.

These are some of reasons why most people don’t use mantras.

The disadvantaged out weigh the advantages.

Making it 3 charge at the get go and with traits making it 4 or
reduce the charge time or
make it instant while at the same time give it a cool down of some sort or
lowering the charge to 2 and still give it a cool down of some sort

can really open the mantra game play style up a bit, but I still think you find it very hard to have people play a mantra build.

Also having a cooldown followed by a 3s cast means for some you will have to wait upwards of 23s untraited to be able to gain the damage bonus or mantra active (for a mantra active, it’s actually fair and on a more reliable cooldown than other access to the same things, such as stunbreaks and condi clear).

However, that’s assuming that you can spend 3s to cast as soon as it’s off cooldown.

I run with harmonious mantras right now, and it is not in any way OP, in fact I’m probably gimping myself taking it, but I love MoD and the extra charge is cool. Having it baseline would just mean more mesmer’s might actually consider using it. Even then many will not because they hate the charge up time, and so would still need to take a GM to make it worthwhile to them, or they just can’t give up anything on their utility bar.

I’m the same way. Can’t run with out MoD, so I have to get Harmonious Mantra’s for more Power Lock. And I feel like I’m gimping myself too because of it.

Anyway, If the change the default to 3 charges, then chances are they will nerf the individual charges accordingly. And they are already borderline useless/useful. Take a look at Mantra of Recovery. If you look at the numbers it supposed to be our best heal, but the thing is that you end up using up ALL your charges at once just to out do Ether Feast. So whats the point of a Mantra if you have to use all your charges at once to make it worthwhile. Change that to 3 charges by default and each charge would probably end up being less.

They just need to buff some of the traits and maybe add some new ones.

Here’s my ideas:
“Harmonious Mantras – Mantras can be activated 3 times and charge time is reduced to 2 seconds”

new GM Domination trait:
“Waste Not Want Not – gain a Mantra charge when you interrupt a foe.”
EDIT: Probably have a ICD of 5/10 seconds to not make it too crazy.

Thinking about it, Waste Not Want Not, might make Harmonious Mantra’s useless.

Defiance would undermine Waste Not Want Not.

Also, if you run the “standard” 6/4/0/0/4 or 6/6/0/0/2, you can slot Harmonious Mantras, activate your Mantras, then unslot it.

Why would it? Chaotic Interruptions still triggers on Champions.

Meh, the only reason most of you think Mantras are weak is because you run straight zerker. If you run Knights or Clerics with Restorative Mantras and Protective Mantras you become pretty kittening annoying to down. That being said, they still needs a bit of love.

I’d love if Protective gave stability or even just stun break. I wouldn’t mind 2 3/4 second protection with reduced toughness.

Empowering to 5% would allow for a bit more build variety and make running zerker not as necessary.

Personally I find Mantra Mastery a waste, if it was 33% charge time I’d consider it or some mix of the two.

Pain shouldn’t be an AoE… it’s a wonderfully powerful long range spike damage and that would require weakening it. However I totally would be willing to weaken it if it did life stealing. And you can cycle it fast to do restorative spam for yourself and/or team.

Dracatis.1908:

Meh, the only reason most of you think Mantras are weak is because you run straight zerker. If you run Knights or Clerics with Restorative Mantras and Protective Mantras you become pretty kittening annoying to down. That being said, they still needs a bit of love.

You only become difficult to kill against someone with 0 access to interrupts. Try doing that against a pistol offhand thief, you’ll just get destroyed.

Dracatis.1908:

Empowering to 5% would allow for a bit more build variety and make running zerker not as necessary.

It would be a nice damage boost for PvE for sure, but zerker(assasins) would still obviously be required.

Dracatis.1908:

Pain shouldn’t be an AoE… it’s a wonderfully powerful long range spike damage and that would require weakening it. However I totally would be willing to weaken it if it did life stealing. And you can cycle it fast to do restorative spam for yourself and/or team.

I’m not sure how you’re defining ‘wonderfully powerful’. It does maybe 4k damage in a super glassy build against a super glassy target. I don’t define that as wonderfully powerful, especially when ele’s get lava fount, a 1200 range aoe very low cooldown skill that does similar or higher damage than mantra of pain…and doesn’t require standing around for 2.75 seconds to recharge it.

They should combine the 2 least used mantra traits Protected and Mastery. The freed up trait could be used to add aoe to MoP with its damage balanced accordingly whilst traited and otherwise unchanged whilst not traited.
* edited post

I like and use MoD. The CD is a tad long.. I’d like to see it be unblockable or last a bit longer once it hits.

But mesmers are 1v1 specialists, we have no need of AoE … (according to devs at least)