Guild Wars 2

alanis.6094:

Does any of the Thief heals clear torment, or are thieves condition cleansing with other abilities? I never get my Torment to last more than 2-3 seconds on a thief, and its consistently gone despite hitting thieves with it under 20%, which should down them.

Most thieves have a trait that removes conditions in stealth, as well as having other ways to remove conditions (shadowsteps).

The thing about the block torment is that it’s a really high removal priority condition. 5 stacks is pretty large, so it’s tough to cover it with other conditions a lot of the time, and this holds true for all condition removals, not just thief ones. Trying to do a mini confusion burst, or stacking some bleeds with clone explosions is probably your best bet for protecting that torment.

Just a bump to let everyone know that this build is still completely viable, and will continue to be completely viable after the next balance updates over in March when the living story ends.

Do we need that precision on the rabid set? Wouldn’t dire be better?

yanniell.1236:

Do we need that precision on the rabid set? Wouldn’t dire be better?

sharper images – clones cause bleed on crit

thats what the precision is for

And also any on-crit sigils/food that you may be using, also, critical hits do more base damage anyway, even though its small, it still counts.

Having 3-4k less health isn’t worth the loss, and, by having lower vitality, your healing becomes more effective.

Natsu Dragneel.1625:

Having 3-4k less health isn’t worth the loss, and, by having lower vitality, your healing becomes more effective.

I have to correct this. Lower vitality doesn’t affect your healing at all. Higher toughness would make your healing more effective, since each point of hp is worth more (i.e. absorbs more damage), but healing effectiveness is exactly the same whether you have 10k hp or 20k. Just because you get more of your bar back doesn’t actually mean it’s better for you.

That being said, precision is good for Sharper Images, Critical Infusion, and any crit sigils you may have. Mixing in a bit of Dire wouldn’t hurt, though.

Yep, completely forgot those traits. I’ll probably get some dire though.

Another question: Lately I’ve been seen A LOT of elementalist using the Diamond Skin trait. It’s just closely to impossible to cause enough damage with the staff or scepter for the conditions to start work . And when I do, they just heal. Am I missing something here or it’s the perfect counter for PU Condition builds?

Not perfect, but as long as they get the jump they will have the upper hand. As you cannot immediately use your kitten nal. And since they start the fight, they got you partially down by the time you can start hurting them.

Like many Phantasm-specs, Diamond Skin Ele is so/so in group based combat though. Too much damage flying around to get any use out of it. They falter quickly.

yanniell.1236:

Yep, completely forgot those traits. I’ll probably get some dire though.

Another question: Lately I’ve been seen A LOT of elementalist using the Diamond Skin trait. It’s just closely to impossible to cause enough damage with the staff or scepter for the conditions to start work . And when I do, they just heal. Am I missing something here or it’s the perfect counter for PU Condition builds?

The 2 skills you want to focus on to break the diamond skin are confusing images and the iWarlock. Both of those will do pretty good damage even in a full condition build. The iWarlock alone sometimes is enough to crack diamond skin in 1 hit.

Update:

Just letting you all know another video is on the way and will be up in the next few hours, with me using the new signet, and the current up-to-date build.

Although its mostly 1v1’s (I couldn’t find any good 1v2+ this last week or so) the video is (I believe) of a decent standard, a lot better then the other 2 which were hastily made at the time of making the build to prove that it actually works.

Edit: I am most likely looking at another 4-5 hours before the video is up, I have to render it again because of some resize and quality issues.

So, this is 6 months old, but just wanted to say: Thumbs Up Thanks for posting it!

I tried a few other builds (including Healing Power/Condition, and full Zerk). Managing Mantras for AOE heals just wasn’t fun, and I was rarely getting credit for tower champs in WvW. Zerk was still not enough damage to really be useful anywhere (plus also being downed and even more useless wasn’t fun).

So I tried this Blackwater build, and it’s awesome (for me). I’m rarely using TS; so I’m not much good for tactical porting and Veil/stealth (just not my style, yelling into a mic is just too disruptive to rest of family; but I’m a good listening). Sometimes I’ll switch to Stealth oriented skills, when it makes sense in wvw. But mostly I stick with Feedback, Null Field, and Mirror Images (and Timewarp).

My other change is just going with Runes of Traveler. Very expensive (these days), but I think a key part in making this build enjoyable for me. I very rarely have to Press 6/Heal, and can survive enough to actually provide good support, which is what I wanted to do with Mesmer. And it’s also enough damage to tag the tower champs for Gold credit most times.

Very much enjoy playing Mesmer now in wvw

Update;

New video is finally uploaded, it should have the 1080p option available, as it is in HD, however, it seems to be a little buggy and sometimes only displays the option for 360p, it should be fine within a day or two.

Update;

New video featuring a dual PU/condition Mesmer 1vX roaming, recorded earlier today with my new friend Aedis. It is still processing so there are no thumbnails and the video is locked into low quality until the HD becomes available.

Update;

Another Video! this one is a long 1vX with me against 3-4 people at the north camp in SOS BL.

I lost the fight in the end because I forgot that the signet has an active heal, but I did stomp them over and over the entire time!

Hello Natsu and fellow mesmers.
I am a great fan of the PU condition mesmer, i have a breeze playing either in PVE, WvsW or sPVP. However i am in a small dilemna right now, but first i’ll say some info about my build :
So i run 0/20/30/20/0 atm, and i am pleased of the results in total (except the lack of swiftness ofc :P)
I have from Dueling: III and X
Chaos: V, X and XII
Inspiration: IV and VII
My armor is full ascended rabid, i have a mix of rabid and dire ascended trinkets and for weapons i have rabid ascended staff and dire ascended scepter/torch.
I use undead runes and i have sigil of torment on scepter, sigil of energy on torch and the sigil of perception on staff.
The results of all the above are to have a great amount of toughness and vitality with more than enough condition damage too and crit chance percentage.
My main dilemna is if it’d be better to drop off 10 points in inspiration tree, losing VII (Malicious Sorcery) and put them in domination to acquire crippling dissipation, because i feel that i lose “something” with no having crippling on death clones conditions.
So 0/20/30/20/0 or 10/20/30/10/0 ? Btw its not so much vitality that matters for me, but i think that Mender’s Purity is so so important to drop it off too and go all the way with blackwater mesmer build.
My last question is about rune of undead vs rune of perplexity. Do you think that it’d be better to have perplexity ones instead of the undead, i currently have?
I am looking forward for your comments/opinion.
:)

Hey Natsu,

I saw you on Faith Blackwater running around WvW the other day. Got to explain to a guildie of mine why you were “famous” as he knew about the build you pioneered but not where it got its name.

I don’t run a build exactly like yours because I wanted something more offensive, but I’m tempted to try it. Only as much as I know how OP perplexity is, I just cannot see how I can give up my Traveler’s runes… sigh, they need to give us better swiftness options.

@Galaden,

The loss in HP really isn’t too large, and the sheer amount of cripple you can put out is amazing, and will make it a lot easier to kite people.

I would recommend putting the other 10 points into domination for the torch cd reductions though, you get more stealth, more confusion, and the two conditions that you would have removed on heal will be removed when you stealth and summon the mage. You also get 10% more condition duration. Using the signet of ether as a heal (is what I would recommend, it is much better then ether fest imo) has a 35 second cd on the active, so 2 conditions every 35 seconds, or 2 conditions every 20-24 seconds by taking the torch trait.

As for taking perplexity runes, they are 100% better then undead. You will have just about the exact same amount of condition damage, however, your confusion will last longer, it will give you an almost permanent 3 stacks of confusion on your opponent, just from attacking them, and also, an extra 5 stacks if you happen to get an interrupt, its not often, but it still helps and is nice when it procs.

@Qaelyn,

Give it a try, you may like it. I personally have no problems with running a bit slower, and it doesn’t really bother me in combat either.

And yes, they REALLY do need to give us better speed boost options, I would love a +25% low-tier trait or something.

Natsu Dragneel.1625:

As for taking perplexity runes, they are 100% better then undead. You will have just about the exact same amount of condition damage, however, your confusion will last longer, it will give you an almost permanent 3 stacks of confusion on your opponent, just from attacking them, and also, an extra 5 stacks if you happen to get an interrupt, its not often, but it still helps and is nice when it procs.

While I too use perplexity runes, it is worth noting that the confusion duration on them is completely broken and doesn’t work at all.

Really? I actually haven’t even noticed or tested that, although I may have subconsciously felt the durations were a lit lower then they should be ^^

Nice to know, I wonder if it will ever get fixed

I actually started with Blackwater way back, but had no experience in Pking at all and was so awful in WvW I never gave it a fair shot. I went away from it in PvP and got used to a more hybrid build, but am now thinking of going back to it.

I already have most of the gear.. but I really don’t think I can give up my traveler’s runes, they just make such a huge difference. I assume I can still be fairly effective without perplexity even if I won’t be quite as good….?

Of course, I don’t run mesmer as much any more in general since I fell in love with engi. :/

Interesting that you run +condi food, I usually run -condi food to help against all the condition spammers out there … since mesmers don’t have a ton of condition removal. You don’t find you have issues with that?

Qaelyn.7612:

I actually started with Blackwater way back, but had no experience in Pking at all and was so awful in WvW I never gave it a fair shot. I went away from it in PvP and got used to a more hybrid build, but am now thinking of going back to it.

I already have most of the gear.. but I really don’t think I can give up my traveler’s runes, they just make such a huge difference. I assume I can still be fairly effective without perplexity even if I won’t be quite as good….?

Of course, I don’t run mesmer as much any more in general since I fell in love with engi. :/

Interesting that you run +condi food, I usually run -condi food to help against all the condition spammers out there … since mesmers don’t have a ton of condition removal. You don’t find you have issues with that?

I run with the disenchanter as one of my utilities. Between that and the traited torch, I never have issues with conditions.

Thank you Natsu for your answer . Yes, i’ll change my build to try blackwater, because first things first, cripple is so good to kite enemies and and can’t be ignored.
As i said, vitality is not a big issue for me. I’ll just tune my playstyle in condition removal by torch skills (stealth+mage) instead of removing them by healing, not a big deal ofc.
Also i use Mantra of resolve which i find very useful and works perfect for me.

Natsu Dragneel.1625:

Really? I actually haven’t even noticed or tested that, although I may have subconsciously felt the durations were a lit lower then they should be ^^

Nice to know, I wonder if it will ever get fixed

I’m not sure it will. Considering the current discussions on Perplexity runes and confusion in general, I suspect that unless we – finally, I’d love that – see the +boonduration -boonduration foods reduced to the on-par value of 10% (to compare against, say, 100 power) there’ll be no help in this regard.

Which is… meh. But not unexpected.

Pyroatheist.9031:

I run with the disenchanter as one of my utilities. Between that and the traited torch, I never have issues with conditions.

I use it now in PvP. In WvW it dies almost instantly and I usually need other utilities in those slots anyway.

Even in PvP it’s not nearly enough to keep up with a good necro, and in WvW necros are beasts because of all the extra stats.

I guess it’s an offense/defense choice, but I find the -40% food makes a big difference, I actually notice when it wears off. (Well, I use -36% because I’m cheap. )

Qaelyn.7612:

Pyroatheist.9031:

I run with the disenchanter as one of my utilities. Between that and the traited torch, I never have issues with conditions.

I use it now in PvP. In WvW it dies almost instantly and I usually need other utilities in those slots anyway.

Even in PvP it’s not nearly enough to keep up with a good necro, and in WvW necros are beasts because of all the extra stats.

I guess it’s an offense/defense choice, but I find the -40% food makes a big difference, I actually notice when it wears off. (Well, I use -36% because I’m cheap. )

Ah ok. So in Zerg fights or large group fights in wvw, you can either go for the mantra instead of the disenchanter, or you can rely on your friendly neighborhood guardian to clean them up for you. The -40% food does help, but I ultimately find it unnecessary.

Qaelyn.7612:

Hey Natsu,

I saw you on Faith Blackwater running around WvW the other day. Got to explain to a guildie of mine why you were “famous” as he knew about the build you pioneered but not where it got its name.

I don’t run a build exactly like yours because I wanted something more offensive, but I’m tempted to try it. Only as much as I know how OP perplexity is, I just cannot see how I can give up my Traveler’s runes… sigh, they need to give us better swiftness options.

Using Traveler Runes with the Blackwater build is perfectly viable. I’ve been doing it for months.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNArfWlwzKqXQTmGb9IipHBHyBckUUavWJF62FC-jgCBYhBCpRZkWQZkEJQ5QFRjtMsIasKZAaGY6YLq2jATKAYmGB-e

Thanks Xavi.

I have been really having a hard time motivating myself to even play mesmer in WvW lately. Maybe a build adjustment will help me feel more into it again.

I would wait until that hotfix for our illusions and phantasms comes in, as it is right now, the Mesmer is pretty broken in wvw/pvp/pve.

Edit: Apparently they were just fixed in that last build, will have to test to see.

So I ran Blackwater again for a couple of hours yesterday (thanks for the link Xavi!)

Had a pretty good time. And I only died once… when (literally) 15 guys chased me down after we tried to take their keep.

I do miss the offense from my GS but I’m going to keep trying this. Thanks again for the build, Natsu.

Oh, and you know all the people who complain about Blackwater/PU builds being “boring”? See if this sounds familiar!

Just started using this build on my new Mesmer. It is a lot of fun can’t wait until I get to 80. I also need to work on my rotations a bit, I tend to just spam what skills are up and hope for the best. Definitely like having your videos to see how you handle situations.

I’ve rolled back on my mesmer lately and I’ve been trying this build… I have to admit it’s a really good build to play with ! Lot’s a fun and survivability. Good for roaming (tho i changed to traveler runes, too slow otherwise) and soloing camps. For duel i like it a lot, but I have some problems dueling thieves. Can I get any tips to fight against stealth thieves ?

Well, with thieves having shadows embrace trait that clears conditions on stealth + they can tag mes clones for free stealths, its pretty kitten the Mesmer…. especially a condi mes.

yomel.9605:

Can I get any tips to fight against stealth thieves ?

Just good use of stealth to break target and positioning along with some unpredictability. It helps to change direction and juke while you’re invisible. When you reappear, try to fake being a clone for as long as is practical. If you dodge roll as soon as you appear, it’s a screaming sign HERE I AM.

I’m P/D. If I’m leading the dance, I’ll win eventually. If the mesmer can mess me up and keep me from latching on, I’m going to have to bail to reset it.

Interrupting Hide in Shadows, our heal, that’s extremely inconvenient to me. Ditto if you can mess up Cloak and Dagger, my go into stealth melee move. I’ll want to hit you with it, but I have absolutely no problem doing it to your clones or handy critters.

The 2nd build is a slight variation to the posted blackwater build… so i thought i’d also post this here for more feedback…

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgUQRArf8dlwziqXVToGa9IypHMH11ckKoalegbXItB-jgyA4skh0GENNJZEnQTlCU+rIasl2ioxqhwUmER1ujioVDA-e

This is currently the latest build I have been using in Dungeons and Events.
I swap between every weapon except the Greatsword quite regularly when I use this build and enjoy that about it.

With the Scepter I always use Torch or Pistol.
With the Sword I use an off hand Sword, Pistol, or a Focus.
I used to hate the Staff and found it very boring, enjoying the GS more of the 2-handers… Now it’s the opposite.

A problem I have had (and when I usually die or get downed) is if i’m fighting ranged and my enemies close distance to me and so in response I switch to melee, I usually take way more damage than I can handle if i’m against for example a bursting hard hitting warrior. Letting my enemies get to melee range is usually when I take damage and occasionally struggle to survive.
Not sure if this is a problem with the way I play or if it’s a gear thing or what… How can i fix this in this build?

Recently I finished map exploration (/cheer) with this character and now want to try out sPvP, PvP, and WvWvW for the first time. Ideally I’d like to have as good of builds as possible that switch as little things out as possible when switching between PvE and WvWvW for example preferably without a trait respec but rather just switching between as little in number of items taking up my invetory space as possible, switching a few traits around… ect. if need be.

The utility skills I use the most are Feedback, Null Field, Phantasmal Disenchanter, Phantasmal Defender, Mantra’s of Concentration and Resolve, Blink, sometimes Portal Entre if there’s a need also on previous builds I’ve enjoyed Decoy, Mirror Images, and Signet of Domination.
I’ve never been a fan of Veil, Arcane Thievery, Illusion of Life, Mimic, or the other Mantra’s and Signets though I’ve tried them out.

Currently I’m working on getting the rabid armor to try out this build in WvWvW:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgUQNArfWnUEVQbINS1wWbEx0jgD5AOSKKtXrkCd7CB-jUCBINCZUJCZ5QFRjtsuIasaIYqUCyKWJ1jYR1+ABTKAIWWB-w

Does Retaliatory Shield actually even do that much damage, a player had told me that it’s actually a very low amount of damage and made me wonder if Phantasmal Fury would be a better choice? (II and III Dueling)

What I’d like to know mostly is…
How viable are these builds for different situations (sPvP, PvP, WvWvW, ect.)?

I’d love to have a one trait point spec fits all situations build and want to try a Lockdown build (is there a different trait and/or weapon spec I could do to make the 2nd build lockdown? also where would that shine), I don’t like phantasm builds as they are not fast paced enough for me… and I find myself always waiting on cooldowns.
I don’t feel confident with having chosen the best Runes and especially Sigils for these builds so feedback on that as well would be nice.

I’ve been messing around with this in sPvP but seem to be having trouble doing much positive this afternoon/evening (guess the players better than me are starting to log in). I went with nightmare runes but everything else is basically the same as the original build on the first page. Any suggestions on some tweaks to tailor it more toward sPvP?

Camiele.7932:

I’ve been messing around with this in sPvP but seem to be having trouble doing much positive this afternoon/evening (guess the players better than me are starting to log in). I went with nightmare runes but everything else is basically the same as the original build on the first page. Any suggestions on some tweaks to tailor it more toward sPvP?

Take a peek at the guide in my signature. I’ve got some specific tips and a few build tweaks that make it work better in tPvP.

Natsu, thank you!

My GL recently turned me on to this and i set it up lastnight and have been playing it since. I’m a big fan, as this build is both fun and effective. Its great!

Farghost.3015:

The 2nd build is a slight variation to the posted blackwater build… so i thought i’d also post this here for more feedback…

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgUQRArf8dlwziqXVToGa9IypHMH11ckKoalegbXItB-jgyA4skh0GENNJZEnQTlCU+rIasl2ioxqhwUmER1ujioVDA-e

This is currently the latest build I have been using in Dungeons and Events.
I swap between every weapon except the Greatsword quite regularly when I use this build and enjoy that about it.

With the Scepter I always use Torch or Pistol.
With the Sword I use an off hand Sword, Pistol, or a Focus.
I used to hate the Staff and found it very boring, enjoying the GS more of the 2-handers… Now it’s the opposite.

A problem I have had (and when I usually die or get downed) is if i’m fighting ranged and my enemies close distance to me and so in response I switch to melee, I usually take way more damage than I can handle if i’m against for example a bursting hard hitting warrior. Letting my enemies get to melee range is usually when I take damage and occasionally struggle to survive.
Not sure if this is a problem with the way I play or if it’s a gear thing or what… How can i fix this in this build?

Recently I finished map exploration (/cheer) with this character and now want to try out sPvP, PvP, and WvWvW for the first time. Ideally I’d like to have as good of builds as possible that switch as little things out as possible when switching between PvE and WvWvW for example preferably without a trait respec but rather just switching between as little in number of items taking up my invetory space as possible, switching a few traits around… ect. if need be.

The utility skills I use the most are Feedback, Null Field, Phantasmal Disenchanter, Phantasmal Defender, Mantra’s of Concentration and Resolve, Blink, sometimes Portal Entre if there’s a need also on previous builds I’ve enjoyed Decoy, Mirror Images, and Signet of Domination.
I’ve never been a fan of Veil, Arcane Thievery, Illusion of Life, Mimic, or the other Mantra’s and Signets though I’ve tried them out.

Currently I’m working on getting the rabid armor to try out this build in WvWvW:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgUQNArfWnUEVQbINS1wWbEx0jgD5AOSKKtXrkCd7CB-jUCBINCZUJCZ5QFRjtsuIasaIYqUCyKWJ1jYR1+ABTKAIWWB-w

Does Retaliatory Shield actually even do that much damage, a player had told me that it’s actually a very low amount of damage and made me wonder if Phantasmal Fury would be a better choice? (II and III Dueling)

What I’d like to know mostly is…
How viable are these builds for different situations (sPvP, PvP, WvWvW, ect.)?

I’d love to have a one trait point spec fits all situations build and want to try a Lockdown build (is there a different trait and/or weapon spec I could do to make the 2nd build lockdown? also where would that shine), I don’t like phantasm builds as they are not fast paced enough for me… and I find myself always waiting on cooldowns.
I don’t feel confident with having chosen the best Runes and especially Sigils for these builds so feedback on that as well would be nice.

Why would you even consider using a condition build for PvE? Blackwater is a WvW/spvp build.

Is this still viable? People tell me condition damage sucks in WvW.

Still as viable as ever, conditions are still pretty much the Meta in WvW when roaming, looses effectiveness in correlation with how many people you have with you/fighting.

Natsu Dragneel.1625:

Still as viable as ever, conditions are still pretty much the Meta in WvW when roaming, looses effectiveness in correlation with how many people you have with you/fighting.

So how about zerg fights? How would you modify your build? Frontal Support/DPS sort of thing, need to stay on commander at all times, etc.

Cheers in advance, Natsu.

Re-Roll a hammer warrior, seriously, we are pretty bad in a zerg situation and and the topic comes up every now and then but nothing ever sticks around, what I can think of is some kinda Greatsword+Glamour+Knights/Valk-ish kinda build doing some kinda damage from afar using something like 10/20/30/10/0 or whatever ^^

Then again, you could just run whatever and be pro Veilbot, Portalbot(For Da Golemz) and Timewarpbot(For Da Golemz Moar)

Yea, I hear ya. Started a warrior recently, lol. I’ve been trying out this veilbot build last night: http://ru.gw2skills.net/editor/?vgAQNAsfWnsISxaWmGGoB3aGRM9I4QOg7kCoj6Kpg3uQA-z0BBofCi0fgkIBK1sIasFhFRjVZDT9iIqmUAmoMC-w

I play a over aggressive condi build, thats uses rabid set with sigil of earth on staff and scepter and a sigil of geomancy on torch. Also instead of veil, I use mirror image.

EXODUZ.5029:

Natsu Dragneel.1625:

Still as viable as ever, conditions are still pretty much the Meta in WvW when roaming, looses effectiveness in correlation with how many people you have with you/fighting.

So how about zerg fights? How would you modify your build? Frontal Support/DPS sort of thing, need to stay on commander at all times, etc.

Cheers in advance, Natsu.

Take something else. Most Mesmer damage options do not currently scale well past say a 10v10 at best; and you and your clones don’t have enough defenses to survive the AE/CC spam.

Basically you are reduced to veil/portal bot.

Add On Death Clone Traits to up the anti in bigger fights. Between Debilitating Dissipation, Crippling Dissipation, paired with Chaos Storm and Bountiful interruption = huge might stacks and condition damage. Yeah, we’re not the best in Zerg fights but we’re not entirely useless. Plus if you run with an organized group that 1 blast finisher from torch can pair well with fields dropped by your buddies. Hell it’s always nice to be able to single an enemy out as the fight draws out or just focus fire with the heavies. No reason why you can’t hang with 3000 armor and 22000+ HP, 1900-2000 condition damage is no joke.

I love this build! Thanks for putting it up. My question is what is the best way to deal with condition necromancers that throw your conditions back at you?

Crimson.2347:

I love this build! Thanks for putting it up. My question is what is the best way to deal with condition necromancers that throw your conditions back at you?

Dodge. Condimancers have a limited number of condition transfer, so learn them and dodge them. Generally the big ones are putrid mark (often will blow up on clones, but be careful of all marks) and the dagger 4 skills (looks like a cloud of green that travels from them to you). If you dodge those, not only will you avoid the condition transfers, but they’ll also keep the conditions on the necro.

I just started building my Ascended armor set for this build. Should I hold off from making the Rabid set pieces until after the 15th when this build might change up?

Zypher.7609:

I just started building my Ascended armor set for this build. Should I hold off from making the Rabid set pieces until after the 15th when this build might change up?

It will still use rabid.