Guild Wars 2

Basically posting to get feedback before I drop ~50g on the runes. I got the idea for this from Ross’ recent scepter build and wanted to try a PU version going for max torment. Basically it’s a condi PU build trying to maximize scepter potential rather than staff.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQRArf7dl0npMttpxRNcrNitxY6OuoiTWTOlMghB-TVyAABWoEEI1fAwEXM6HATJB17PImyBNOJAPpEjUAwMHA-w

The idea is to use scepter clones and the low cd block to overload the target with torment, while DD and scepter 3 serve as cover and some added condi burst. PU is there for PU, obvs. Focus is for mobility, as running without any swiftness like that in wvw is not an option for me, so don’t bother commenting on the focus.

Do you think this will work in wvw? I know already that this concept does not work in sPvP; the duration increase on torment is key, if it’s going to work at all. Thanks for taking the time to give feedback!

i think the only problem you will get is against fast hitting zerker or bunker. as scepter is slow slow weapon and even if you pop up 3 clone which wouldn’t have been killed the stack you can make from AA are 3-4 stacks

dont forget that ppl usually run with -40% food duration so 4-6 seconds from AA will last only 2-3 seconds which doesnt make any threat to any guardian/warrior/thief/necro etc…
consider going with CI and BI to buff you dmg and conditions diversity

i like the pistol which can stack 5-6 bleeding and left ignore is deadly

and heal skill – you need to use it in 10 sec rotation to create aoe torment (dont forget if you havent already knew it)

if you really like pu go for it. imo dont much needed

Are you getting the torment on crit sigils?

One thought, if you’re not going for a condition stacking approach then you’re going to want to stack raw damage. So while doom will wreck a heal, you could go for torment sigils and the +6% condition duration sigils too. I’d also stack damage via sigil of corruption too.

Arcane Thievery is bonus condi remove, and can steal boon stacks or swiftness which is great. Alternatively you can take that signit of domination. It’ll boost your condi damage and the stun can be used to interrupt a heal (instead of doom doing the work, which can also be cleansed).

Will it work? Against a lot of classes/builds really well. Against some others, you might still have trouble. PU will certainly allow you to sustain yourself while a team of thieves are having a go at you.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQRArf7dl0npMtNoxRNcrNitxY6OuoiTWTOlMghB-T1yAABWoEEhDCAQq/88JAAATcxofAMlEUv/gYKHeSJ22PBASBAzcA-w

The biggest problem with this build is that you’re putting all of your damage into a very easily destroyed thing: 1 condition. Yeah, your bleeds will tick a bit and yeah, your burn from torch will do some damage, but you’re really focusing on torment.

You don’t have much cover condition access. Really debilitating dissipation is all you’ve got, and that means anyone with even modest removal will result in you doing no damage.

yes this build will do well in wvw. dual scepter with doom sigils…tells me you have class…i have sometimes run 2 giver’s scepter with doom sigils. with most players using -40 condi food, it doesn’t stick very well compared to stacking condi like bleeds or torment but is very effective with bleeding and torment.

Ross Biddle.2367 does have a point with raw damage when it comes to condition stacking but sometimes overpowering doesn’t equate to outplayed. Doom will wreck heals but as i play with 2 scepters with doom sigils, i find that doom allows more time for bleeding and torment to do it’s thing if not cleansed. basically they either cleanse doom(maybe allowing your bleeds and torment to continue to stack) or they wait for poison to wear off and then heal back the health while waiting…either way youre going to make your opponent think a bit and that’s is key.

the classes that i have trouble with are necros and guardians cause of the condi to boons skills/traits so be wary of them. play scepter as if it was a melee weapon rather than range and thank you for your post

Thanks guys for the replies. Still on the fence, my character is quite poor so buying those runes is a big deal for me unfortunately.

I would really like to have a good condi build, playing condi bunker is fun. Right now all my builds are power. Since the patch I haven’t been able to come up with a good condi build, for wvw or spvp honestly. MtD doesn’t work, and all we got on the condi side from the patch was torment on scepter.

I could still run the old blackwater build if I thought I could stand crawling across the map like a purple snail (or maybe caterpillar is a better one, yuk yuk).

I may still give this a go. With PU hopefully counter=stalemate and I can escape. So if each engagement were I either I bail and live or they die, that doesn’t sound too bad for a roamer. The plus to this build over classic PU is that, in theory, people cannot just run away from you.

If this one doesn’t work I’m giving up on condi until a future patch, which is sad. The whole point of a condi build is 1vX, because if you are only concerned about 1v1 there are far better builds even than blackwater pre-patch.

I have to admit I didn’t realize it at the time, but I am starting to see now how the DD nerf may have totally destroyed the condi mesmer. I thought maybe some of the other things they gave us would make up for it, but after trying them it doesn’t seem like it. I’ll give this one a go and see if it works, if not then I guess good job Anet for kitten a whole class of mesmer builds.

I theory-crafted a MH x2 scepter build just after patch and haven’t had a chance to come back to it, but without a doubt to make a build like that work I think you must at the very least have scepter double traited for 6s recharges on torment block to make it remotely viable. It wasn’t possible to do this before (bugged), but now is.

Even then, the build doesn’t really end up with a clear focus or theme (like CI/PU etc). It’s just basic condi mesmer. That isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but it better do really well at being a condi mesmer if it’s got nothing else special going for it. To do that, you have to consider the condition output you’re dishing and going MH scepter x2 does limit that. So you have to build as many other condition sources in as possible. This is just one idea I put together really quick – illusion on death theme-ish (maybe you go with pistol vs torch, w/e):

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQRArd7PIx2YM1FnsmcQ3QlNghB-w

skcamow.3527:

I theory-crafted a MH x2 scepter build just after patch and haven’t had a chance to come back to it, but without a doubt to make a build like that work I think you must at the very least have scepter double traited for 6s recharges on torment block to make it remotely viable. It wasn’t possible to do this before (bugged), but now is.

Even then, the build doesn’t really end up with a clear focus or theme (like CI/PU etc). It’s just basic condi mesmer. That isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but it better do really well at being a condi mesmer if it’s got nothing else special going for it. To do that, you have to consider the condition output you’re dishing and going MH scepter x2 does limit that. So you have to build as many other condition sources in as possible. This is just one idea I put together really quick – illusion on death theme-ish (maybe you go with pistol vs torch, w/e):

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQRArd7PIx2YM1FnsmcQ3QlNghB-w

Thanks for the input. The thing is I don’t really see the point in running a condi build without PU. IMO interrupts and CI in particular just work so much better as power. When I think of a condi build, I don’t want to lockdown my target, I want them running around flailing killing clones, proccing confusion and maxing torment dmg, not standing still locked down. I’m not saying condi CI doesn’t work, as I’ve seen footage of skilled players doing fine with it, just explaining my personal view on condi and attrition. That is why I don’t see too much point in running a condi build that isn’t PU. So like the above build you linked I’m sure would be very good 1v1, but I doubt it would handle 1vX better than any other build, and I know there are builds much better for 1v1. So what’s the point besides personal preference?

But I’m always trying to learn, so if someone could explain to me a situation where a condi build without PU clearly outperforms all power builds that could be used in that situation, please do. If it’s just personal preference then I think condi mesmer really did get seriously hurt by DD nerf in that the supposed compensation and other options we got are not panning out. Obviously this is not news to pretty much anyone, I just didn’t want to conclude that until I had personally tried out all the options I could think of. I’m still going to give this one a go I think.

Yeah without any special theme, again the build must excel at dishing damage. That build I definitely don’t see 1vX being very fun. In general, without stealth, mesmer isn’t going to fare too well 1vX. So, if that’s what you want out of this, then PU is likely your route, and I’d say just run the standard 4/4/6 build with traveler’s. Boring as all get out, but it still works.

As far as condi builds that are non-PU outperforming power builds, there are some, but it depends on the opponent. Like with thieves, I wreck them on my chaotic perdition build (CI) but playing shatter is much tougher. Just one example.