Guild Wars 2

Every damage modifier is multiplicative. That’s the reason why mesmer deal relativly low damage – they don’t have many of them at the same time. Only phantasm for 32.25% and ourselves for 0%-26.44% (16% mantra, 9% illusions). Adding sigil of the night would grant us additional 12.644% instead of 10%. But ye – phantasms get easy more stuff so …

Shatter build w/ Warden is still the most fun and active/involved for people that like to be doing a lot. Mostly Sw/Focus with Sw/Pi or GS based on the situation.

0/20/0/20/30

…just depends on how you define fun. This is a more fun style of play (for me) than a Phantasm or Mantra build. Hasn’t kept me from clearing anything quickly or completing level 49 Fractals.

Shatter DPS is much lower than Phantasm builds for PvE.

Xavi.6591:

Shatter DPS is much lower than Phantasm builds for PvE.

I don’t think “much” (whatever that means) is accurate… especially for those who know how to play a shatter build. That aside, I did say in my post that the primary point of value was that it was fun and more active. Phantasm builds, to use your example, are very simple and not very active.

It just depends on what you enjoy (which I also said in my post).

Cleared through fractals, speedy clears on dungeons, seems like it’s working ok.

Jeremlloyd.6837:

Yeah for condition damage u should use a necro or an engineer

Necro sucks and engineer I prefer turrets or elixirs. I don’t particularly like playing either one of those classes as a condition class because their survivability is much lower.

You’d be surprised at how much condition damage I put out on my mesmer, with clones and phantasms all stacking conditions along with me.

How much? Now really – I wanna know! It’s definitly lower than a engineer and even less compared to the necro. Beside that – they both also are stronger zerkers, engi even with bombs. Necro is pretty ok, he deals damage, heals a bit, nothing to complain about. Engi in my option is underrated by far, the damage is awesome in general, pretty ok in single target, nr1 in aoe. And passive damage – yes yes yes

CrazyAce.3842:

Jeremlloyd.6837:

Yeah for condition damage u should use a necro or an engineer

Necro sucks and engineer I prefer turrets or elixirs. I don’t particularly like playing either one of those classes as a condition class because their survivability is much lower.

You’d be surprised at how much condition damage I put out on my mesmer, with clones and phantasms all stacking conditions along with me.

Necro sucks? Hmm not at all and its survivability is fine (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCaEGzBkEuo)

^ this thread is obvisouly mainly about pve

Xyonon.3987:

How much? Now really – I wanna know! It’s definitly lower than a engineer and even less compared to the necro. Beside that – they both also are stronger zerkers, engi even with bombs. Necro is pretty ok, he deals damage, heals a bit, nothing to complain about. Engi in my option is underrated by far, the damage is awesome in general, pretty ok in single target, nr1 in aoe. And passive damage – yes yes yes

I haven’t done a lot of testing in terms of raw numbers. I can tell you my character’s relevant stats: Condition 1035, crit chance 57%, power 1380, toughness 1480, health ~17.8k.

But that’s boring and for tryhards. I don’t play to do math, I play to have fun. I don’t really care if my stats arent perfectly maximized – I hardly play sPVP at all, anyways. And PvE is easy. The only real challenge I’ve had in this game is from fractals, and that’s assuming your group has no idea what they’re doing.

And also… have you SEEN the nerfs on necro lately (especially the Dec. 10th patch)? The vast majority of the profession’s condition skills got gutted. Ironically, the skill that was actually causing problems and making people complain about condition necros, Dhuumfire, was left untouched. It’s pretty much Anet saying to Necros, “play a Minion Master or Wellomancer or GTFO.”

And Engie certainly does good condition damage certainly, but I’ve tried it and I just don’t like it. Considering how in-your-face you need to be with the condition engie compared to a necro or mesmer, I die/get downed WAY more than I should, even using Precision/Toughness/Condition gear. From what I’ve read on the competitive engie builds (not that I pvp with my engie), power burst builds seem to be the preferred method anyway if you’re looking for raw damage.

That’s exactly what I said. I would never ever play anthing with condition damage anymore in PvE. I was first condi engi, it sucked so hard compared to power. Same for necro and mesmer. In the beginning it’s awesome since you have just 1 or 2 different stats pimping – but with 3, power, precision and crit damage scale with each other and gives you a stronger gameplay.

I like people who say “I play to have fun!”. I really accept that statement, but I hate it when they say “my build is stronger!” if it clearly isnt (I don’t mean you do so at this statement). I won’t judge you for playing condition mesmer, I more respect it. However to tell you, you can easy get 2k condition damage if you really want to focus on it. I did it myself once. It was fun, yes, but not very useful in dungeons especially fotm.

My power build phantasm stats are 0 condmg, 60% crit chance, 2200 power, 1000 toughness, 250 healing power, 18k health and 110% crit dmg. Basic attacks deal 2k 2k 3.5k unbuffed. Sword cleave. Takes you ages to outdamage even that. Now if the warden hits for 12k on 3 enemies you will never outdamage me anymore unless I dc :P

Xyonon.3987:

How much? Now really – I wanna know! It’s definitly lower than a engineer and even less compared to the necro. Beside that – they both also are stronger zerkers, engi even with bombs. Necro is pretty ok, he deals damage, heals a bit, nothing to complain about. Engi in my option is underrated by far, the damage is awesome in general, pretty ok in single target, nr1 in aoe. And passive damage – yes yes yes

Yes! I really like engis too. Actually I cannot decide which toon to main, if my mesmer or my engi.
Just for curiosity: which build do you use on your engi? (I run with typical 30/30/0/10/0 giver weapons, koi cakes, 4 might duration runes, 2 condition duration runes, full zerker).

I understand. I built my mesmer specifically to be a hybrid, so it doesn’t necessarily excel at anything in particular… I built it with leanings toward conditions simply because trying to implement a power build when I use the staff 90% of the time would be silly no matter how you look at it. (The mesmer staff is by far my favorite weapon in the GAME. )

The times when I miss the power is when I’m helping to attack gates in WvW and my damage with the GS (or any other weapon for that matter) is like slapping a wet herring against an oak tree.

And if I DO somehow force myself to go into sPVP, I STILL play a condition mesmer, ha! I play a glamour confusion mesmer (20/0/0/30/20; Staff + Scepter/Torch). I’m sure everyone knows that build. It’s not as popular (or OP) now that they nerfed confusion, but it still works because of how so many people in pub matches still play glass cannons and spam skills without paying attention to their conditions. It’s hilarious to see thieves kill themselves any day of the week. XD

If you really like the staff that much, what do you use in the other set? I doubt it’s staff + nothing/nothing Cuz staff is a very strong zerker weapon due the warlock.

Xyonon.3987:

If you really like the staff that much, what do you use in the other set? I doubt it’s staff + nothing/nothing Cuz staff is a very strong zerker weapon due the warlock.

It honestly depends on the situation. I usually use scepter/torch for normal PvE roaming (infinite clones :p ), but I do like running with sword/focus for WvW (Sword 2 and Focus are really invaluable for staying alive and ahead of enemy zergs, respectively).

Sometimes I also take GS just for kicks, too. It’s a power weapon, but iZerker is really awesome now that it hits consistently (that cripple rocks when I’m kiting enemies), and the GS 5 knockback is great for both gap control and interrupts. I still hate GS 3 (Mind Stab), but I hate it less than I used to before they shortened the aftercast and its other good skills mostly make up for it (though IMO the autoattack is still kinda weak even in a pure power build).

If I WERE to make a power build for sPVP (not my preferred choice, but I know the build well enough), I would use the standard cookie-cutter 10/20/0/25/15 phantasm build (I prefer the weapons sword/sword + scepter/pistol). Shatter builds are okay, but IMO they can be unreliable because illusions still get ganked by AOE a lot before they can reach their intended target. I also like phantasms that stay out because they act like “bloodhounds” and immediately seek out stealthers as soon as they pop out of stealth, allowing you to track them down and defeat them more easily.

Now you might ask why I wouldn’t use the GS in a power phantasm build. Well, I considered it, but having 2 blocks and 1 evasion with Scepter 2, Sword 4, and Sword 2 were just too good to give up just for iZerker and the knockback. Not to mention the iSwordsman is really good now that’s it’s no longer buggy and actually hits the target, making it about on par with the iDuelist (give or take). That means I’ve got 2 really good phantasms on relatively short cooldowns (both 16 seconds when traited in the Dueling line), meaning I can really pump out the illusions at an absurd rate, especially when you factor in my scepter’s autoattack.

CrazyAce.3842:

I haven’t done a lot of testing in terms of raw numbers. I can tell you my character’s relevant stats: Condition 1035, crit chance 57%, power 1380, toughness 1480, health ~17.8k.

What kind of gear are you using? Assuming a carrion/rabid gear mix (my best guess given what I can see) you can have 1800+ condmg with your traits… am I missing something? sample build

Just because the staff aa is about the same with power as with malice. But 3 and 5 are clearly much stronger with power. You still can use scepter / sword + staff in a power build. The direct damage of their skills are scaling better too.

The skill description is often misleading players because they see a condition next to the normal damage. But even if you would deal 1000 power damage and 4000 condition damage with a skill, and you had the choice between 3000 power and 4000 condi or 1000 power and 5000 condi, the total damage is still better with power. I hope you can follow my poor example xD. Conditions scale too bad compared to power, and the conditions still deal damage on a power build, but they are a nice add on to the main damage, however on condition build both numbers are just medicore.

(PvE)

Valarauka.2719:

CrazyAce.3842:

I haven’t done a lot of testing in terms of raw numbers. I can tell you my character’s relevant stats: Condition 1035, crit chance 57%, power 1380, toughness 1480, health ~17.8k.

What kind of gear are you using? Assuming a carrion/rabid gear mix (my best guess given what I can see) you can have 1800+ condmg with your traits… am I missing something? sample build

My armor is Precision/Toughness/Condition (Rabid), and my trinkets are Power/Precision/Condition (Coral). Generally I don’t use food because I forget that I even have it. I also don’t particularly like Carrion gear. I know it gives more condition damage, but I consider vitality to be a wasted stat for PvE. I would rather switch out my Coral trinkets for more Rabid stuff (but I like having the little bit of extra power since my build is really crit-heavy). I also don’t go 30 into Illusions because I like to have Mender’s Purity (Inspiration IV).