Guild Wars 2

Helseth is playing a full well celestial bunker chrono
http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/

edit: you can now watch it here
http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/v/25267847
from 52m55s.

Oh god, here we go.

Bandwagoning and nerf calls in 3, 2, 1…

Only one game though

One game and it was enough to chat go crazy…. Word “nerf” each 3 lines.

FYI: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAW8encfC1fi9fCmfCEgilej6cDKhWzMAugMqeUb1ZF-TJRHABB8EAGf/BAuIAHVGAA

Edit: Wrong rune

Teutos.8620:

FYI: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAW8encfC1fi9fCmfCEgilej6cDKhWzMAugMqeUb1ZF-TJRHABB8EAGf/BAuIAHVGAA

Edit: Wrong rune

durability runes are pretty beast on celestial anything.

I’ll try this build out later. I’m concerned about the lack of condi pressure, but with staff and geo/doom I could see it working. Maybe scepter over staff would work better too?

Also seize the moment over chronophantasma is odd but I can see why it would work okay.

nearlight.3064:

Maybe scepter over staff would work better too?

You will loose access to a lot of boons from Chaos Armor (especially due to the protection from the chaos-trait).

Teutos.8620:

nearlight.3064:

Maybe scepter over staff would work better too?

You will loose access to a lot of boons from Chaos Armor (especially due to the protection from the chaos-trait).

Oh yeah, I always forget about the chaotic dampening leap proc.

Still it feels weird playing cele without condis but I can see that working. Maybe signet of inspiration could work over well of recall too for more boon share.

If you are going to run 5 wells, I think running chrono runes and swapping sieze the moment with chronophant would be better. The shield and staff phants are really good so why not have more of them? Otherwise the build looks good.

It is clear that his build only worked thanks to his team. It’s not as good to defend a point 1v2 like a cele ele. In particular, the might stacks were multiplied by his trait, but he didn’t create much.

Morality: you see Curunen. If you can’t take shattered strength, just bring in an elementalist

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

If you are going to run 5 wells, I think running chrono runes and swapping sieze the moment with chronophant would be better. The shield and staff phants are really good so why not have more of them? Otherwise the build looks good.

I guess it is pretty much a work in progress and will most likely look quite different next time.
Personally I would also pick the chrono runes & chrono phant tho.

Teutos.8620:

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

If you are going to run 5 wells, I think running chrono runes and swapping sieze the moment with chronophant would be better. The shield and staff phants are really good so why not have more of them? Otherwise the build looks good.

I guess it is pretty much a work in progress and will most likely look quite different next time.
Personally I would also pick the chrono runes & chrono phant tho.

When I made a chrono bunker build, I ended up with the exact same traits as Helseth (but slightly different utilities and gear). Quickness on shatter is on demand instant quickness. So if you need to rez/stomp someone very fast, you shatter anyway for the stability, and now you get quickness on top. That is huge!
Quickness on well is nowhere near as easily available when you need it.

Silverkey.2078:

It is clear that his build only worked thanks to his team. It’s not as good to defend a point 1v2 like a cele ele. In particular, the might stacks were multiplied by his trait, but he didn’t create much.

Morality: you see Curunen. If you can’t take shattered strength, just bring in an elementalist

I wouldn’t mind “Summon Elementalist” as an elite skill. :P

Silverkey.2078:

Teutos.8620:

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

If you are going to run 5 wells, I think running chrono runes and swapping sieze the moment with chronophant would be better. The shield and staff phants are really good so why not have more of them? Otherwise the build looks good.

I guess it is pretty much a work in progress and will most likely look quite different next time.
Personally I would also pick the chrono runes & chrono phant tho.

When I made a chrono bunker build, I ended up with the exact same traits as Helseth (but slightly different utilities and gear). Quickness on shatter is on demand instant quickness. So if you need to rez/stomp someone very fast, you shatter anyway for the stability, and now you get quickness on top. That is huge!
Quickness on well is nowhere near as easily available when you need it.

Fair enough. I guess I didnt include that bunkers have to res people. Although just for fun, why not run chrono runes and seize the moment :o

Not sure if celestial or sentinels works better for this build, but since hurting things is important in pvp, celestial has that slight edge even if theres only a little bit of might. I’m going to keep experimenting with it, but this could be a really viable build if its tuned and developed further.

Do you guys think running signet of inspiration over recall well would be viable for more boonshare? You could also run calamity or portal in that slot as well. Time warp could be useful too for even more quickness/slow sharing.

Celestial is a poor choice. The build has little to no condie pressure that would even be noticed in a fight against normal comps, and celestial only works for condie pressure if you have might anyway, which this build doesn’t generate. Imo, helseth just ran a poorly optimized version of my build.

nearlight.3064:

Not sure if celestial or sentinels works better for this build, but since hurting things is important in pvp, celestial has that slight edge even if theres only a little bit of might. I’m going to keep experimenting with it, but this could be a really viable build if its tuned and developed further.

Do you guys think running signet of inspiration over recall well would be viable for more boonshare? You could also run calamity or portal in that slot as well. Time warp could be useful too for even more quickness/slow sharing.

I don’t see portal make as much sense as a team fighter than it does as a roamer. When I did run my bunker build, I had time warp. The main problem with time warp is it does not sync as well with continuum split :p It has a fairly high CD and is more situational. Gravity well is a good CC, very good for coordinated burst.

I like boonshare, but this build does not generate that many boons itself. You already share your shatter boons, so it’s only adding the protection from chaotic dampening. I usually start my fight with chaos storm, retreat and chaos armor back-to-back to stack protection and then phantasm to share it with the trait.
It really works only if your team provides boons, but if this is the case, you may not need to have an extra share… Recall offers massive alacrity for everyone. Tough decision…

Fay.2357:

Celestial is a poor choice. The build has little to no condie pressure that would even be noticed in a fight against normal comps, and celestial only works for condie pressure if you have might anyway, which this build doesn’t generate. Imo, helseth just ran a poorly optimized version of my build.

You know, I was thinking the same thing. This kinda looked like your build (Both used all wells so….) but I didnt understand the cele ammy. It just doesnt work with mes.

i dont play cele and find that soldier rune works better
also took signet so my boons output are much higher

but bunker chrono needs a good group to play with

In twitch chat helseth briefly discussed his reasons for picking cele. Apparently he can sit at 25 might a lot of the time somehow (maybe through tempest fire overloads or herald might or something?) and he didn’t feel as though his survivability needed to be any higher considering how often he died when playing it. I’m still not sure if that reasoning is sound, but I thought I’d post it here to keep us informed.

nearlight.3064:

In twitch chat helseth briefly discussed his reasons for picking cele. Apparently he can sit at 25 might a lot of the time somehow (maybe through tempest fire overloads or herald might or something?) and he didn’t feel as though his survivability needed to be any higher considering how often he died when playing it. I’m still not sure if that reasoning is sound, but I thought I’d post it here to keep us informed.

Granted, the actual comp he was fighting was a bunch of tanky builds, it doesn’t take the tankiest build in the world to stay alive against that.

Also granted, swapping to a semi-bunker that does semi-bad damage against a team of tanky builds isn’t exactly the brightest decision I’ve ever seen made.

Silverkey.2078:

It is clear that his build only worked thanks to his team. It’s not as good to defend a point 1v2 like a cele ele. In particular, the might stacks were multiplied by his trait, but he didn’t create much.

Morality: you see Curunen. If you can’t take shattered strength, just bring in an elementalist

If people couldnt see this coming for the torny meta they know nothing.

The point is that with the shift on the meta, chrono has had to find its role. Roaming DPS is out, and simply going to be a portal bot leaves to much to be desired. Thus, we see the dawn of the Utility Wizard. Bunk Chrono sitting at mid in a team fight with bruisers and/or another dedicated bunker means you create a watertight offense/defense as you buff what everybody else there can do (alacrity, buff/debuff, cc). What you can bring “1v1” is meaningless. Rotating, capturing, and holding is the only thing that matters in the end.

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

Fay.2357:

Celestial is a poor choice. The build has little to no condie pressure that would even be noticed in a fight against normal comps, and celestial only works for condie pressure if you have might anyway, which this build doesn’t generate. Imo, helseth just ran a poorly optimized version of my build.

You know, I was thinking the same thing. This kinda looked like your build (Both used all wells so….) but I didnt understand the cele ammy. It just doesnt work with mes.

Well you know, it’s not exactly surprising to see Helseth dragging his feet on the Mesmer front :p

Fay.2357:

nearlight.3064:

In twitch chat helseth briefly discussed his reasons for picking cele. Apparently he can sit at 25 might a lot of the time somehow (maybe through tempest fire overloads or herald might or something?) and he didn’t feel as though his survivability needed to be any higher considering how often he died when playing it. I’m still not sure if that reasoning is sound, but I thought I’d post it here to keep us informed.

Granted, the actual comp he was fighting was a bunch of tanky builds, it doesn’t take the tankiest build in the world to stay alive against that.

Also granted, swapping to a semi-bunker that does semi-bad damage against a team of tanky builds isn’t exactly the brightest decision I’ve ever seen made.

To be fair, he did way better against oRNG on his tanky build compared to his shatter build based on the three games he played against them, but I think the main ace in the hole for oRNG is that they simply adapted and rotated better than TCG did after the first game, which I think is more due to how they have better coordination, instead of TCG just listening to helseth for all of their rotations. oRNG also had better condi pressure between the cele necro, druid, and condi rev too, which may have tipped the balance in their favor, especially since most of the new cele bruisers in this meta aren’t running as much AoE cleanse as they used to (tempest without shout runes/cleansing water, druid has bad cleanse, scrapper has only heal turret really).

Anyway thats what I thought about his mesmer usage tactically. A bunker/support build would work well in a 2-point comp, but not a 3-point comp, meaning that teams with higher mobility can just outrotate the support builds and avoid the even numbered teamfights where something like a well chronomancer would have a huge advantage.

nearlight.3064:

Fay.2357:

nearlight.3064:

In twitch chat helseth briefly discussed his reasons for picking cele. Apparently he can sit at 25 might a lot of the time somehow (maybe through tempest fire overloads or herald might or something?) and he didn’t feel as though his survivability needed to be any higher considering how often he died when playing it. I’m still not sure if that reasoning is sound, but I thought I’d post it here to keep us informed.

Granted, the actual comp he was fighting was a bunch of tanky builds, it doesn’t take the tankiest build in the world to stay alive against that.

Also granted, swapping to a semi-bunker that does semi-bad damage against a team of tanky builds isn’t exactly the brightest decision I’ve ever seen made.

To be fair, he did way better against oRNG on his tanky build compared to his shatter build based on the three games he played against them, but I think the main ace in the hole for oRNG is that they simply adapted and rotated better than TCG did after the first game, which I think is more due to how they have better coordination, instead of TCG just listening to helseth for all of their rotations. oRNG also had better condi pressure between the cele necro, druid, and condi rev too, which may have tipped the balance in their favor, especially since most of the new cele bruisers in this meta aren’t running as much AoE cleanse as they used to (tempest without shout runes/cleansing water, druid has bad cleanse, scrapper has only heal turret really).

Anyway thats what I thought about his mesmer usage tactically. A bunker/support build would work well in a 2-point comp, but not a 3-point comp, meaning that teams with higher mobility can just outrotate the support builds and avoid the even numbered teamfights where something like a well chronomancer would have a huge advantage.

Yeah, I’m sure he personally did better in fights, but it was a tactical failure because of how their team comp actually functioned (or didn’t function, as the case may be).

Tbh imho cele amu is pretty good for Heseth particularly (if there are perma 25 mightstacks from teammates, plus all stats except condi damage are useful at build).
This utility carrier mesmer reminds me support guard with not very good solo application, low mobility and great support at teamfights. Though I mb would take portal insted of well of action to compensate low mobility.

With 25 might and fury, celestial does more direct damage than soldier. The staff AA does have a decent condi pressure, so of course this is an additional (albeit small) benefit of cele. Add the sigils and at the end of the game I could see in his stream, he had like 290k damage and 80k condi damage (and he was 1v1 or 2v2 most of the time). It’s not amazing, but at the end he gives more damage than soldier.

Then survivability should benefit soldier more. But if he felt his survivability was sufficient, then he also gets improved healing and regen for his team.

So in his case, cele may be actually be the best. Now if you play in a non-coordinated team, the extra survivability and the lack of might probably favors soldier/sentinel.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Silverkey.2078:

It is clear that his build only worked thanks to his team. It’s not as good to defend a point 1v2 like a cele ele. In particular, the might stacks were multiplied by his trait, but he didn’t create much.

Morality: you see Curunen. If you can’t take shattered strength, just bring in an elementalist

If people couldnt see this coming for the torny meta they know nothing.

The point is that with the shift on the meta, chrono has had to find its role. Roaming DPS is out, and simply going to be a portal bot leaves to much to be desired. Thus, we see the dawn of the Utility Wizard. Bunk Chrono sitting at mid in a team fight with bruisers and/or another dedicated bunker means you create a watertight offense/defense as you buff what everybody else there can do (alacrity, buff/debuff, cc). What you can bring “1v1” is meaningless. Rotating, capturing, and holding is the only thing that matters in the end.

THIS!!!

I mentioned in a post before how it looked like chrono was more of a point fighter (which mesmers have never really been known to be) than a squishy burst roamer. After trying and failing to figure out a good build i finally settled for Fay’s awesome bunker chrono build and i love playing it.

When i play with coordinated teamates sometimes i switch Mental Defense for Illusionary Inspiration and eventhough i miss phantasmal defender my teamates are always surprised with all the boons (including alacrity and quickness) i can provide in a fight.

Squeezzy.4718:

Ross Biddle.2367:

If people couldnt see this coming for the torny meta they know nothing.

The point is that with the shift on the meta, chrono has had to find its role. Roaming DPS is out, and simply going to be a portal bot leaves to much to be desired. Thus, we see the dawn of the Utility Wizard. Bunk Chrono sitting at mid in a team fight with bruisers and/or another dedicated bunker means you create a watertight offense/defense as you buff what everybody else there can do (alacrity, buff/debuff, cc). What you can bring “1v1” is meaningless. Rotating, capturing, and holding is the only thing that matters in the end.

THIS!!!

I mentioned in a post before how it looked like chrono was more of a point fighter (which mesmers have never really been known to be) than a squishy burst roamer. After trying and failing to figure out a good build i finally settled for Fay’s awesome bunker chrono build and i love playing it.

When i play with coordinated teamates sometimes i switch Mental Defense for Illusionary Inspiration and eventhough i miss phantasmal defender my teamates are always surprised with all the boons (including alacrity and quickness) i can provide in a fight.

It was obvious for a while that chrono was designed to be a point fighter. Even before the first BWE1 I suggested chrono bunker
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Chrono-bunker/first

What I didn’t know then is that mesmer would have to run this not to die because of how dumb everything else became. And I didn’t expect Helseth to play it since it does not correspond to his style (he actually says he hates it).

And objectively, being able to team fight is what mesmers were lacking, so it fits the purpose of the specialization. Unfortunately, with our awful sustain damage, a bruiser build is not as easy to make, so we either go full burst or full bunker.

Fay.2357:

Celestial is a poor choice. The build has little to no condie pressure that would even be noticed in a fight against normal comps, and celestial only works for condie pressure if you have might anyway, which this build doesn’t generate. Imo, helseth just ran a poorly optimized version of my build.

Fay.2357:

Granted, the actual comp he was fighting was a bunch of tanky builds, it doesn’t take the tankiest build in the world to stay alive against that.
Also granted, swapping to a semi-bunker that does semi-bad damage against a team of tanky builds isn’t exactly the brightest decision I’ve ever seen made.

You know, you are always criticizing, but can’t remember the last time, I actually saw something constructive from you.

How about adding sharing your “wisdom” and suggesting some option including the benefit it provides?

Teutos.8620:

Fay.2357:

Celestial is a poor choice. The build has little to no condie pressure that would even be noticed in a fight against normal comps, and celestial only works for condie pressure if you have might anyway, which this build doesn’t generate. Imo, helseth just ran a poorly optimized version of my build.

Fay.2357:

Granted, the actual comp he was fighting was a bunch of tanky builds, it doesn’t take the tankiest build in the world to stay alive against that.
Also granted, swapping to a semi-bunker that does semi-bad damage against a team of tanky builds isn’t exactly the brightest decision I’ve ever seen made.

You know, you are always criticizing, but can’t remember the last time, I actually saw something constructive from you.

How about adding sharing your “wisdom” and suggesting some option including the benefit it provides?

You must not be looking very hard.

Anyway, I’ve already posted my bunker build, and explained how it works. If you paid much attention, you’d know that.

A better choice instead of going semi-bunker would have been to go full condie against oRNG. Their entire team comp had very little group condie cleanse, and would have melted to the condie pressure + cc that condie chrono can do. It would have been prudent to probably switch at least one other person to condie as well, since that’s the main weakness of their comp.

Fay.2357:

Teutos.8620:

Fay.2357:

Celestial is a poor choice. The build has little to no condie pressure that would even be noticed in a fight against normal comps, and celestial only works for condie pressure if you have might anyway, which this build doesn’t generate. Imo, helseth just ran a poorly optimized version of my build.

Fay.2357:

Granted, the actual comp he was fighting was a bunch of tanky builds, it doesn’t take the tankiest build in the world to stay alive against that.
Also granted, swapping to a semi-bunker that does semi-bad damage against a team of tanky builds isn’t exactly the brightest decision I’ve ever seen made.

You know, you are always criticizing, but can’t remember the last time, I actually saw something constructive from you.

How about adding sharing your “wisdom” and suggesting some option including the benefit it provides?

You must not be looking very hard.

Anyway, I’ve already posted my bunker build, and explained how it works. If you paid much attention, you’d know that.

A better choice instead of going semi-bunker would have been to go full condie against oRNG. Their entire team comp had very little group condie cleanse, and would have melted to the condie pressure + cc that condie chrono can do. It would have been prudent to probably switch at least one other person to condie as well, since that’s the main weakness of their comp.

oRNG was running a cele/condi reaper build, so I think they were hesitant to run with conditions due to fear of transfers, helseth even said he wouldn’t want to use geomancy sigils against a necro. Though you are right that Druid and non-mallyx rev are very condi weak and mallyx rev melts if it gets CCed so yeah.

so happy to see bunker chrono in the finals so i guess we gonna see more of them now.

problem – they must have good group or they loss their effectiveness

i wouldnt go cele and might change to soldier or condi instead (but risky with necro on the other side)

it seems they lost cause helseth left mid and rush far to help the res and prevent the cap. so they lost 2 point eventually . so maybe a portal in the build could be useful even for bunker build to move forces on the map….

this is the build i testing atm
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAW8encfC1fiFoB2qBUrhlej6cDKhWzMAugMqeUb1XF-TJhIABcfRAA4JA49+DYXGAA

my team have almost all boon on them and if i am going with temporal enchanter the resistance can get to 5.5 sec while most condition last about 6 sec so your team hardly need condi cleanse on a point fight.
also the slow condition duration is bit higher so its good thing and slow on point for 10 sec while you team has full quickness is wow. and with F5 ready up again.

If we now see more of this cele build in soloq, do as I will and have fun killing it over and over. As Silverkey pointed out, this build is built for a team setting and outside of that setting this build is borderline trash tier with celestial. Throw sentinel on it and it immediately improves one hundred fold.

Also … for all the illusionary inspiration haters – yeah with all that alacrity that single trait had a huge part in refreshing all those boons on his allies in those team fights. Yes I know you hate it for the interruption in your skill rotations and not the functionality itself. Helseth dealt with it, so can we. It doesn’t mean I’m saying it shouldn’t be tuned a bit, but it also doesn’t mean the trait is trash because of the current functionality, IMO of course.

EU pro-league Qualifiers right now. Everyone playing bunker…

Here is the Chrono bunker build that I am playing right now:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAW8ensICdohlpB+fCEgilej6MFKhVzMAugMq+Ub1XF-TJxHABPXGIgLCQ47PAwTAAA

I am not really fond of the full well build. The reason I like this one is because of the ability to shield 4 block four times and the fact that it summons an iAvenger if it fully channels or an iDefender if it blocks. With chronophantasma, and the shatter reset on my other signet, I am in a constant block-shatter-alacrity cycle. If played correctly, I can hold a point 1v1 vs any profession indefinitely and 2v1 or even 3v1 for long enough to get help.

EDIT: I am new to the game though, so I would love to hear your opinion of the build and how I might improve it.

Gwendiel.9802:

Here is the Chrono bunker build that I am playing right now:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAW8ensICdohlpB+fCEgilej6MFKhVzMAugMq+Ub1XF-TJxHABPXGIgLCQ47PAwTAAA

I am not really fond of the full well build. The reason I like this one is because of the ability to shield 4 block four times and the fact that it summons an iAvenger if it fully channels or an iDefender if it blocks. With chronophantasma, and the shatter reset on my other signet, I am in a constant block-shatter-alacrity cycle. If played correctly, I can hold a point 1v1 vs any profession indefinitely and 2v1 or even 3v1 for long enough to get help.

EDIT: I am new to the game though, so I would love to hear your opinion of the build and how I might improve it.

countless plays a support build with the two signets thats very similar to yours. I’d just suggest taking precog over blink.

Personally I prefer wells to signets just because the alacrity buffing for teammates is simply the main draw of bunkerchrono, so it makes sense to maximize that as much as possible.