Guild Wars 2

This is stemming from a topic on the PvP forum, but does anyone think Chrono would be easier to balance if CS didn’t reset our shatters. Everything else, including our elites, would still be reset, just not our shatters. Lets be honest here, CS (especially with IR and Chronophantasma) allows for shatter spamming like mad. With inspirations this is mad healing, and with a condi build its an insane amount of confusion/torment/vuln output.

Before anyone gets defensive over “Yet another nerf mesmer thread”, I just want to know if you think the chrono line would be easier to balance if this change were to happen. I’m not asking if it should/shouldn’t happen, nor if its too much of a nerf or anything, just if this would make chrono easier to balance. I would of course expect some other things to be buffed if CS were nerfed like this, but at the moment not sure what.

Honestly it should only affect shatters and maybe weapon skills. Utility skills are where it goes over the top.

I don’t think utility skills are over the top with CS. None of them can be traited the way our shatters can. I do believe that doubling up on shatters is stronger than being allowed to double up on utility skills. Especially since shatters are instant, so you can always pop all 4 during a CS even if you didn’t have any illusions out, yet the same is not true of your utility skills.

What reason does a power build have for spamming shatters? The healing from Restorative Illusions is gone when Continuum Shift ends, so the only benefit would be condition clearing.

Spamming only benefits condi because every shatter is dealing damage. Power only has Mind Wrack doing most of the damage, Cry of Frustration is just a little bit extra, and the others are mostly defensive.

Why should power shatter suffer when it’s the condi builds that are unbalanced?

When I said stack the healing I should have been more precise, with CS you can shatter for the effect while in CS, and then shatter immediately after it ends if you need the healing. It gives you “free” shatters for healing, so you don’t waste them just for healing or condi cleanse.

But I think you answered your own question? Why does a power build need to spam shatters? It doesn’t. So how would making CS not affect shatters affect power builds that much?

Besides, you got off point. Would it be easier to balance chrono if CS didn’t affect shatters?

My point was that power builds don’t use shatter skills frivolously like a condi build. Power builds require proper timing and positioning for their shatters. Condi builds mostly just shatter whenever they feel like it. Obviously the “free” shatters are a lot more valuable to the build with less room for error.

Yeah, clownmug has the right of this. The problem isn’t the spamming of shatter skills in and of itself. The problem is the fact that condie builds have an incentive to spam all your shatter skills as much as possible.

Although chrono makes it less restrictive, illusions are a finite resource locked behind cooldowns and cast times, which is also part of the cost for using CS in the first place.

Condi might benefit abit but the problem with condi is how condis are applied on every shatter, and it’s still only stacking rather small easily avoidable amounts. Also if you are spamming your shatters you risk wasting your chronophantasma’s chance to hit and could net subpar damage in the long run.

I don’t even like condi chrono all that much, and even I don’t think this is a problem. Even less so as mentioned should power suffer for it.

Clownmug.8357:

What reason does a power build have for spamming shatters? The healing from Restorative Illusions is gone when Continuum Shift ends, so the only benefit would be condition clearing.

Spamming only benefits condi because every shatter is dealing damage. Power only has Mind Wrack doing most of the damage, Cry of Frustration is just a little bit extra, and the others are mostly defensive.

Why should power shatter suffer when it’s the condi builds that are unbalanced?

Slight correction, the daze one is also useful offensively in PvP/Solo PvE when traiting in domination since regardless of whether or not it dazes, it still applies 5 stacks of vulnerability which then makes follow up attacks hit harder. Using it prior to a greatsword+mind wrack burst used to pretty standard for mesmers before chronomancer caused condition mesmer to outclass the power build.

For solo PvE, I’ve been running domination/illusions/chronomancer traited for quickness, might, alacrity and vulnerability from shatters, and in the case of enemies that don’t survive long enough to justify focusing on phantasms (pretty much everything other than bosses) have had much better results than I did with phantasm builds.

Agree with Clownmug, I think a better solution would be to move Illusionary Reversion up to GM level next to Chronophantasma. Beef it a little more like make create 1for1 clones up to max of 2. So now the Chrono chooses clones to feed shatters or phantasms. Having both is a little too much.

Of course, probably need to improve Time Marches On to make it worth it to choose over the other 2

There will never be a more potent Mesmer build than the current setup so long as spamming through your shatters is as potent or profitable as things currently are. In fact there’s no reason to play any other Mesmer build, unless you enjoy a life of pain and hardship.

Is limiting CS the way to do this? Possibly, it’s one way to go about it at least.

Just to state it again, the excessive reproduction of clones via chrono traits/weapons and instantaneous spamming of shatters is only necessary due to the ridiculously underwhelming pressure, and easily destructible nature of clones/phants!

There is every reason to mash those shatters under this (only) build of mesmer immediately.

godkitten I hate playing mesmer these days XD

For me, one of the problem is that Time Catches Up, CP and RI do not make sense in the chronomancer line. For chrono to be balanced, it needs to be a “specialization”, meaning have a specific goal. Domination = damage, Chaos = Defense, Inspiration = Healing/support. Chronomancer seems to have been meant as a defense/support specialization (shield, alacrity/quickness) but it also provided superspeed on illusions, and an infinite supply of illusions. Those favor offensive/spammy builds and are thus out of flavor (you don’t even really have a “time” theme on RI, barely on CP) and out of balance since you keep your shield defense and shorter CD coming “free” with the chronomancer.

So how to balance mesmer/chrono: rethink everything
How they are going to balance mesmer/chrono: make a new specialization, realize chronomancer is way stronger than the new specialization. Nerf core mesmer to make chronomancer less OP. Make the new specialization a bit OPer to make up for it. “tada”!