Guild Wars 2

I much rather have an enhanced aoe capability, than a 1v1 dueling capability that doesn’t extend to PVE at all. I’m so tired of classes complaining about not being able to fight Mesmer 1v1. Can Anet just nerf us and be done with it?

Yeah, like I said in OMFG guild chat earlier I’m tired of mantras carrying bad players.

yea i see mesmers gonna get nerfed and so much tears flowing already!!!!!!!Q.Q

I hope Anet takes their time and brings things down slowly. A good place to start is the stats and to scale the damage aspect down a little. Another good place to look is that horrible torch trait.

Let’s start with more pressing issues like BD and CS.

The damage output is fine but you can’t negate it if you’re stunned every 3 3/4 seconds.

But for some reason I don’t think they’re going to mess around too much with the traits so we’ll see what happens.

My guess is they’re gonna just do something about mesmers being able to 1-shot people from stealth.

Though honestly it’s not just mesmer that’s a bit over the top right now. Burn guard can knock you down stupid fast if you’re not closely watching conditions, warrior’s got about a million auto-activated defenses, sword ranger is surprisingly strong, etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if the way things are balanced now is right about where we’re gonna end up staying.

Honestly the only build that is more or less a non-issue for me these days is LB ranger.

phokus.8934:

Let’s start with more pressing issues like BD and CS.

The damage output is fine but you can’t negate it if you’re stunned every 3 3/4 seconds.

But for some reason I don’t think they’re going to mess around too much with the traits so we’ll see what happens.

how do you stun EVERY 3 3/4 sec as a Mesmer?

Rome.7124:

phokus.8934:

Let’s start with more pressing issues like BD and CS.

The damage output is fine but you can’t negate it if you’re stunned every 3 3/4 seconds.

But for some reason I don’t think they’re going to mess around too much with the traits so we’ll see what happens.

how do you stun EVERY 3 3/4 sec as a Mesmer?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Distraction
*Stun every 5 seconds.

*EDIT: Sorry, that’s Daze increase (not home can’t check accurately).

Mesmer is in a really good spot now, finally. They are fine

Excludee.3850:

My guess is they’re gonna just do something about mesmers being able to 1-shot people from stealth.

Though honestly it’s not just mesmer that’s a bit over the top right now. Burn guard can knock you down stupid fast if you’re not closely watching conditions, warrior’s got about a million auto-activated defenses, sword ranger is surprisingly strong, etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if the way things are balanced now is right about where we’re gonna end up staying.

Honestly the only build that is more or less a non-issue for me these days is LB ranger.

Our ‘1 shot’ from stealth is incredibly easy to dodge if you just pay attention, and then we can’t do anything but retreat for the next 15 seconds. Thieves however can keep spamming their 1 shot ability and can even one shot you with conditions. They also have longer duration stealth, sustained damage and more evades than mesmers have.

Let us have some good burst damage… I do not feel like standing in de backline using glamours all the time and doing no damage

Jonathan Schelling.8106:

Excludee.3850:

My guess is they’re gonna just do something about mesmers being able to 1-shot people from stealth.

Though honestly it’s not just mesmer that’s a bit over the top right now. Burn guard can knock you down stupid fast if you’re not closely watching conditions, warrior’s got about a million auto-activated defenses, sword ranger is surprisingly strong, etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if the way things are balanced now is right about where we’re gonna end up staying.

Honestly the only build that is more or less a non-issue for me these days is LB ranger.

Our ‘1 shot’ from stealth is incredibly easy to dodge if you just pay attention, and then we can’t do anything but retreat for the next 15 seconds. Thieves however can keep spamming their 1 shot ability and can even one shot you with conditions. They also have longer duration stealth, sustained damage and more evades than mesmers have.

Let us have some good burst damage… I do not feel like standing in de backline using glamours all the time and doing no damage

Bruh, you sound wrong and salty about your counter. First off, how can we pay attention to something in stealth? Answer: No they’re in stealth. Secondly I believe GS 2 is an 8 second CD, the F1 doesn’t even need to be included at 20% damage boost from mantras. To buffer the latter, Power Block. Thieves get 1 shot by Mesmer’s more than vice versa nowadays. Mesmer’s have been proven somewhere around 52 Seconds of stealth. Hollup, didn’t Thieves get nerfed for getting insane amounts of stealth. When the D/P meta first came about. They did, so that’s broke too. Good damage does not deem 1 shots to everything. Lastly Mantra’s extreme carries for the bads and makes the goods look godly.

Rahktaahl.3082:

Jonathan Schelling.8106:

Excludee.3850:

My guess is they’re gonna just do something about mesmers being able to 1-shot people from stealth.

Though honestly it’s not just mesmer that’s a bit over the top right now. Burn guard can knock you down stupid fast if you’re not closely watching conditions, warrior’s got about a million auto-activated defenses, sword ranger is surprisingly strong, etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if the way things are balanced now is right about where we’re gonna end up staying.

Honestly the only build that is more or less a non-issue for me these days is LB ranger.

Our ‘1 shot’ from stealth is incredibly easy to dodge if you just pay attention, and then we can’t do anything but retreat for the next 15 seconds. Thieves however can keep spamming their 1 shot ability and can even one shot you with conditions. They also have longer duration stealth, sustained damage and more evades than mesmers have.

Let us have some good burst damage… I do not feel like standing in de backline using glamours all the time and doing no damage

Bruh, you sound wrong and salty about your counter. First off, how can we pay attention to something in stealth? Answer: No they’re in stealth. Secondly I believe GS 2 is an 8 second CD, the F1 doesn’t even need to be included at 20% damage boost from mantras. To buffer the latter, Power Block. Thieves get 1 shot by Mesmer’s more than vice versa nowadays. Mesmer’s have been proven somewhere around 52 Seconds of stealth. Hollup, didn’t Thieves get nerfed for getting insane amounts of stealth. When the D/P meta first came about. They did, so that’s broke too. Good damage does not deem 1 shots to everything. Lastly Mantra’s extreme carries for the bads and makes the goods look godly.

So… What you’re saying is you can’t see the flying greatsword? Because it isn’t stealthed in any way. But you are correct GS is at 8 sec cd. However f1 is at 12 so by the time it’s all said and done 15 seconds is about right. And you have to be actively using the mantra or else the buff falls off remember that.
As for stealth. 52 seconds, yeah that’s a lot but think about it. One off hand devoted to it, 2 trait lines are taken for it( PU and The Pledge) and your entire skill bar is devoted to it. Mimic, decoy, mass invis, and veil. Yeah it’s so op. Does it need some tuning yeah but it’s not like the end of the world.
Ah mantra shatter. All I have to say if you’re letting someone that took the mantra build off metabattle beat up on you then it’s not the builds fault. All the good mesmers I play against aren’t running it because there’s so many more builds out there that do just as well, if not better.

Jace al Thor.6745:

So… What you’re saying is you can’t see the flying greatsword? Because it isn’t stealthed in any way.

You can’t see it if they blink to you while stealthed.

And if this is only about sPvP balance the first thing they should do is adjust amulet stats, since every class seems to have 2-3 build options which simply “deal too much damage”. And fix/revert The Pledge, it’s a bugged abomination.
Then, maybe, start looking into CS and PU, if they’re even still a problem.

Rahktaahl.3082:

Mesmer’s have been proven somewhere around 52 Seconds of stealth. Hollup, didn’t Thieves get nerfed for getting insane amounts of stealth. When the D/P meta first came about. They did, so that’s broke too. Good damage does not deem 1 shots to everything. Lastly Mantra’s extreme carries for the bads and makes the goods look godly.

Whoa, lets not get ahead of ourselves here.

Thieves only require initiative to stealth and not be revealed. They effectively have no cool down on it. They also only require to be in stealth and not be in your forward arc to do their burst. If they miss or you dodge? Keep trying, they didn’t deal damage so are still in stealth and keep at it till it lands.

Mesmers on the other hand have cool downs. Mirror blade as you say has 8s but mind wrack which is most of the burst is 12s. However their stealth has cool downs too. Torch 30s, decoy 40s (32s traited) and MI is 90s (72s traited). If you only factor in PU at most you can get 22s continuous stealth before having to spend 8s waiting for the torch and another 18s for decoy.

The high stealth comes from the frankly ridiculous torch trait which when camping stealth gets down to a 13s recharge. Change that trait and you’ll see less stealth camping mesmers as almost no-one will pick illusions just for the recharge on decoy.

If you’re complaining about mantras, you obviously never used them pre patch, they were anything but fine.

Photoloss.4817:

Jace al Thor.6745:

So… What you’re saying is you can’t see the flying greatsword? Because it isn’t stealthed in any way.

You can’t see it if they blink to you while stealthed.

And if this is only about sPvP balance the first thing they should do is adjust amulet stats, since every class seems to have 2-3 build options which simply “deal too much damage”. And fix/revert The Pledge, it’s a bugged abomination.
Then, maybe, start looking into CS and PU, if they’re even still a problem.

Lol the sword is still visible AND they just wasted a very important utility. So if you did dodge, stun break, invuln, etc then they can’t escape very well.

Also, 50s of stealth has you dropping Veil twice (talk about a tell), and every other stealth you cast is The Prestige, which does a flaming explosion after 6s every time, so you’re exploding every 18s.

It’s not just “ermagerd no idea they’re even there!”

The ridiculous investment required to reach that is pretty severe, too, as mentioned above.

You cant even heal urself against mesmers, unless u want a free interrupt and a 15secs CD on ur heal. The last 3 PVP matchs i played it was a HELL. IDK what anet will buff, but its just unplayable atm.

WilnerGW.3275
Power ranger or necro?
Probably not a power ranger – any decent heal themselves in stealth. Thus necro?
Use LoS.
Other classes not even using interruptible healing skills or do it in stealth too (mesmer). Even guardian Litany of wrath is non interraptible now (cast time reduced from 3/4 to 1/4).

Mak.2657:

WilnerGW.3275
Power ranger or necro?
Probably not a power ranger – any decent heal themselves in stealth. Thus necro?
Use LoS.
Other classes not even using interruptible healing skills or do it in stealth too (mesmer). Even guardian Litany of wrath is non interraptible now (cast time reduced from 3/4 to 1/4).

Yep, this is in an ideal cenario. But in team fights sometimes u alrdy used ur CDs to stay alive or cant use LOS due ur actual position, then u try to heal urself…LOL 15 secs CD in ur face. This is totally game-changing

Yes im power ranger, but u cant forget that good mesmers use Illusionary Wave to interrupt, no matter if ur in stealth or not, using LOS or not.

Don’t use it right immediately after stealth if have problems with wave. Mesmer could not only gs5 you, but diversion too. You have 2-2.5s after stealth starts for reposition

apharma.3741:

I hope Anet takes their time and brings things down slowly. A good place to start is the stats and to scale the damage aspect down a little. Another good place to look is that horrible torch trait.

Don’t you dare touch my torch trait!

WilnerGW.3275:

Mak.2657:

WilnerGW.3275
Power ranger or necro?
Probably not a power ranger – any decent heal themselves in stealth. Thus necro?
Use LoS.
Other classes not even using interruptible healing skills or do it in stealth too (mesmer). Even guardian Litany of wrath is non interraptible now (cast time reduced from 3/4 to 1/4).

Yep, this is in an ideal cenario. But in team fights sometimes u alrdy used ur CDs to stay alive or cant use LOS due ur actual position, then u try to heal urself…LOL 15 secs CD in ur face. This is totally game-changing

Yes im power ranger, but u cant forget that good mesmers use Illusionary Wave to interrupt, no matter if ur in stealth or not, using LOS or not.

Teamfight is more about positioning. You gotta make sure if the mesmer blows cooldown to get close to you to interrupt your heal. He will pay for it by ending up in a bad position.

In terms of nerf, I honestly think confounding suggestion should have a 60s iCD. Even with that iCD, i think it is still quite powerful and worth to use compared to the other two adepts.

PU probably should have some stealth duration reduction just to make low-tier players rage a bit less. Even with just +1/2 sec stealth duration, it still has its use for survival reasons.

Master fencer should have iCD increase to 10s. Currently the fury application is a bit too much.

Blinding dissipation should not go through evade/block. But an iCD is definitely not needed. Players who applies blind at correct timing should be rewarded. iCD will make such conscious attempt fail more likely than not.

Power block and chaotic interruption do not need changes. We already have plenty professions spamming skills and just brainlessly keep rotation going. Counterplay to that should be greatly encouraged.

Cs needs icd and work only if you really interrupt something. Maybe even move it to other trait line so it has to compete with other really good traits.

BD shouldn’t go through evades/dodges.

I had mesmers today spamming mantra on me while i had stab on, that is just sad :|

Kusa.6438:

apharma.3741:

I hope Anet takes their time and brings things down slowly. A good place to start is the stats and to scale the damage aspect down a little. Another good place to look is that horrible torch trait.

Don’t you dare touch my torch trait!

It’s a bad trait, you know it, I know it. Besides we might get a nicer trait that rewards an aggressive playstyle =D

As for CS, I like what Pyro suggested. 10s ICD local to the target. Also staff trait needs buffing to 3-4%. Wait buffs…what dark magic is this!?

apharma.3741:

Kusa.6438:

apharma.3741:

I hope Anet takes their time and brings things down slowly. A good place to start is the stats and to scale the damage aspect down a little. Another good place to look is that horrible torch trait.

Don’t you dare touch my torch trait!

It’s a bad trait, you know it, I know it. Besides we might get a nicer trait that rewards an aggressive playstyle =D

As for CS, I like what Pyro suggested. 10s ICD local to the target. Also staff trait needs buffing to 3-4%. Wait buffs…what dark magic is this!?

ICD local to individual is way too powerful, let alone a mere 10s. You can potentially stun lock a whole team that is rezzing some one.

WilnerGW.3275:

Mak.2657:

WilnerGW.3275
Power ranger or necro?
Probably not a power ranger – any decent heal themselves in stealth. Thus necro?
Use LoS.
Other classes not even using interruptible healing skills or do it in stealth too (mesmer). Even guardian Litany of wrath is non interraptible now (cast time reduced from 3/4 to 1/4).

Yep, this is in an ideal cenario. But in team fights sometimes u alrdy used ur CDs to stay alive or cant use LOS due ur actual position, then u try to heal urself…LOL 15 secs CD in ur face. This is totally game-changing

Yes im power ranger, but u cant forget that good mesmers use Illusionary Wave to interrupt, no matter if ur in stealth or not, using LOS or not.

Ever consider the possibility that getting your heal interrupted is simply the result of your poor play being punished? If you’re not considering the fact that you’ll need a way to protect your heal cast, then you’re playing poorly and deserve to be punished for it. Learn to consider that strategy when you enter a fight, play smart to counter it, and you’ll be rewarded by a successful heal.

The only problem we have is the oneshot from stealth. Everything else seems totally fine to me. It’s new that a mesmer can fight back like this and ppl have to get used to it and actually dodge a shatter comb to survive rather than “just take it”. But the stealth shatter is highly toxic and leaves no counterplay. Maybe shatter skills in general should deal less damage while stealth and revealed.

Xyonon.3987:

The only problem we have is the oneshot from stealth. Everything else seems totally fine to me. It’s new that a mesmer can fight back like this and ppl have to get used to it and actually dodge a shatter comb to survive rather than “just take it”. But the stealth shatter is highly toxic and leaves no counterplay. Maybe shatter skills in general should deal less damage while stealth and revealed.

Against stealth attack, all you have to do is watch carefully after mesmer goes in stealth and dodge when something is coming. Yes you can see it, let it be mirror blade, phantasms or whatever! It is actually much easier to dodge a mesmer’s attack from stealth than thieve’s.

The only problem currently is PU is making the stealth duration a bit too long. It is possible for mesmer to move from one point to the other in stealth w/o being noticed.

The problem is that you have new mesmers running condi and mantra specs and they have to Moa you just to burst you down in a 1v2 on point >.<
That’s the problem. They have no idea what they’re doing.

Much prefer them buffing people to NERFING people. This new meta zone is fun. Mesmer has full build variety and options. I want the other classes to have it too. Besides, we aren’t even close to invincible (minus Harmonious Mantras- that’s bogus, halve the heal and its considerable. keep as is, and it just carries mantra players) and our condition burst is stuck on INEPTITUDE, not blinding dissipation. Yes, blinds are annoying. But you can only proc 4 (MAXIMUM) every 12 seconds, then you are out. The blinds come from you, not your illusions (I tested extensively) so if you are dumb enough to waste your shatters cuz “omg blinds op” then … I just don’t know what to say. Ineptitude on the other hand, read that sucker. That’s BROKEN. Considering breaking out full gear, grabbing a pair of mesmer buddies, letting us max our condi damage and confusion duration- then jumping a wvw zerg and just pressing sword 2 and torch 4 followed by Distortion Shatter. Honestly considering it, because it has no icd.

BUFF THE OTHER CLASSES TO OUR LEVEL, don’t nerf them down again. Oh, and don’t buff Ele’s too much. I suck at every class minus Mesmer and Ranger, but I pick an ele and play d/d…its…its so easy. 1/2/3/4/5 swap 1/2/3/4/5 (in a nutshell, slightly more complex, but thats the gist).

Fay.2357:

WilnerGW.3275:

Mak.2657:

WilnerGW.3275
Power ranger or necro?
Probably not a power ranger – any decent heal themselves in stealth. Thus necro?
Use LoS.
Other classes not even using interruptible healing skills or do it in stealth too (mesmer). Even guardian Litany of wrath is non interraptible now (cast time reduced from 3/4 to 1/4).

Yep, this is in an ideal cenario. But in team fights sometimes u alrdy used ur CDs to stay alive or cant use LOS due ur actual position, then u try to heal urself…LOL 15 secs CD in ur face. This is totally game-changing

Yes im power ranger, but u cant forget that good mesmers use Illusionary Wave to interrupt, no matter if ur in stealth or not, using LOS or not.

Ever consider the possibility that getting your heal interrupted is simply the result of your poor play being punished? If you’re not considering the fact that you’ll need a way to protect your heal cast, then you’re playing poorly and deserve to be punished for it. Learn to consider that strategy when you enter a fight, play smart to counter it, and you’ll be rewarded by a successful heal.

Thats weird cuz my ‘poor play’ doesnt punish me against anothers professions. Of course i get trouble with thiefs chasing me simetimes, but tbh i can deal with it most of times. But, against mesmers… lol

Not saying im a PRO PLAYER MOTHERF**R BAD A*S ranger or something(it´s quite the opposite actually tbh), just saying that against another professions its so much easier to deal with.

WilnerGW.3275:

Fay.2357:

WilnerGW.3275:

Mak.2657:

WilnerGW.3275
Power ranger or necro?
Probably not a power ranger – any decent heal themselves in stealth. Thus necro?
Use LoS.
Other classes not even using interruptible healing skills or do it in stealth too (mesmer). Even guardian Litany of wrath is non interraptible now (cast time reduced from 3/4 to 1/4).

Yep, this is in an ideal cenario. But in team fights sometimes u alrdy used ur CDs to stay alive or cant use LOS due ur actual position, then u try to heal urself…LOL 15 secs CD in ur face. This is totally game-changing

Yes im power ranger, but u cant forget that good mesmers use Illusionary Wave to interrupt, no matter if ur in stealth or not, using LOS or not.

Ever consider the possibility that getting your heal interrupted is simply the result of your poor play being punished? If you’re not considering the fact that you’ll need a way to protect your heal cast, then you’re playing poorly and deserve to be punished for it. Learn to consider that strategy when you enter a fight, play smart to counter it, and you’ll be rewarded by a successful heal.

Thats weird cuz my ‘poor play’ doesnt punish me against anothers professions. Of course i get trouble with thiefs chasing me simetimes, but tbh i can deal with it most of times.

That’s weird because even prepatch Mesmer punished poor play… Huh nothing’s changed I guess.

Jace al Thor.6745:

WilnerGW.3275:

Fay.2357:

WilnerGW.3275:

Mak.2657:

WilnerGW.3275
Power ranger or necro?
Probably not a power ranger – any decent heal themselves in stealth. Thus necro?
Use LoS.
Other classes not even using interruptible healing skills or do it in stealth too (mesmer). Even guardian Litany of wrath is non interraptible now (cast time reduced from 3/4 to 1/4).

Yep, this is in an ideal cenario. But in team fights sometimes u alrdy used ur CDs to stay alive or cant use LOS due ur actual position, then u try to heal urself…LOL 15 secs CD in ur face. This is totally game-changing

Yes im power ranger, but u cant forget that good mesmers use Illusionary Wave to interrupt, no matter if ur in stealth or not, using LOS or not.

Ever consider the possibility that getting your heal interrupted is simply the result of your poor play being punished? If you’re not considering the fact that you’ll need a way to protect your heal cast, then you’re playing poorly and deserve to be punished for it. Learn to consider that strategy when you enter a fight, play smart to counter it, and you’ll be rewarded by a successful heal.

Thats weird cuz my ‘poor play’ doesnt punish me against anothers professions. Of course i get trouble with thiefs chasing me simetimes, but tbh i can deal with it most of times.

That’s weird because even prepatch Mesmer punished poor play… Huh nothing’s changed I guess.

Mesmers pre-patch were like thief is now, at least for me. Kinda harder than other professions, but could deal with it.

WilnerGW.3275:

Fay.2357:

WilnerGW.3275:

Mak.2657:

WilnerGW.3275
Power ranger or necro?
Probably not a power ranger – any decent heal themselves in stealth. Thus necro?
Use LoS.
Other classes not even using interruptible healing skills or do it in stealth too (mesmer). Even guardian Litany of wrath is non interraptible now (cast time reduced from 3/4 to 1/4).

Yep, this is in an ideal cenario. But in team fights sometimes u alrdy used ur CDs to stay alive or cant use LOS due ur actual position, then u try to heal urself…LOL 15 secs CD in ur face. This is totally game-changing

Yes im power ranger, but u cant forget that good mesmers use Illusionary Wave to interrupt, no matter if ur in stealth or not, using LOS or not.

Ever consider the possibility that getting your heal interrupted is simply the result of your poor play being punished? If you’re not considering the fact that you’ll need a way to protect your heal cast, then you’re playing poorly and deserve to be punished for it. Learn to consider that strategy when you enter a fight, play smart to counter it, and you’ll be rewarded by a successful heal.

Thats weird cuz my ‘poor play’ doesnt punish me against anothers professions. Of course i get trouble with thiefs chasing me simetimes, but tbh i can deal with it most of times. But, against mesmers… lol

Your poor play absolutely punishes you against any other profession that attempts to interrupt heals. The key is that mesmers punish you more. Want to know why?

Because interrupts and associated punishing effects are one of the main themes that Anet has consistently attempted to work into mesmer.

You just don’t like being punished for playing poorly. That’s ok, nobody likes being punished. Complaining about being punished for poor play is simply foolish though.

Fay.2357:

WilnerGW.3275:

Fay.2357:

WilnerGW.3275:

Mak.2657:

WilnerGW.3275
Power ranger or necro?
Probably not a power ranger – any decent heal themselves in stealth. Thus necro?
Use LoS.
Other classes not even using interruptible healing skills or do it in stealth too (mesmer). Even guardian Litany of wrath is non interraptible now (cast time reduced from 3/4 to 1/4).

Yep, this is in an ideal cenario. But in team fights sometimes u alrdy used ur CDs to stay alive or cant use LOS due ur actual position, then u try to heal urself…LOL 15 secs CD in ur face. This is totally game-changing

Yes im power ranger, but u cant forget that good mesmers use Illusionary Wave to interrupt, no matter if ur in stealth or not, using LOS or not.

Ever consider the possibility that getting your heal interrupted is simply the result of your poor play being punished? If you’re not considering the fact that you’ll need a way to protect your heal cast, then you’re playing poorly and deserve to be punished for it. Learn to consider that strategy when you enter a fight, play smart to counter it, and you’ll be rewarded by a successful heal.

Thats weird cuz my ‘poor play’ doesnt punish me against anothers professions. Of course i get trouble with thiefs chasing me simetimes, but tbh i can deal with it most of times. But, against mesmers… lol

Your poor play absolutely punishes you against any other profession that attempts to interrupt heals. The key is that mesmers punish you more. Want to know why?

Because interrupts and associated punishing effects are one of the main themes that Anet has consistently attempted to work into mesmer.

You just don’t like being punished for playing poorly. That’s ok, nobody likes being punished. Complaining about being punished for poor play is simply foolish though.

Nah against other profesions its like 50/50 or who makes more/less mistakes. Its not all about the heal interrupt, tbh this happens very rarely. I didnt mean the insta kills like this

So ok, i am a bad player, thats fine. But its still a unbalanced game if a bad player only get trouble with mesmers, dont you think? Bad players like me should get f****d by all professions. Or maybe all other’s profession’s players are just bad as me.

Really? That’s the video you want to use as proof? An out of position ranger, who is probably full glass, and isn’t paying any attention to his surroundings and gets bursted by a full glass mesmer and complain about it?

WilnerGW.3275:

Fay.2357:

WilnerGW.3275:

Fay.2357:

WilnerGW.3275:

Mak.2657:

WilnerGW.3275
Power ranger or necro?
Probably not a power ranger – any decent heal themselves in stealth. Thus necro?
Use LoS.
Other classes not even using interruptible healing skills or do it in stealth too (mesmer). Even guardian Litany of wrath is non interraptible now (cast time reduced from 3/4 to 1/4).

Yep, this is in an ideal cenario. But in team fights sometimes u alrdy used ur CDs to stay alive or cant use LOS due ur actual position, then u try to heal urself…LOL 15 secs CD in ur face. This is totally game-changing

Yes im power ranger, but u cant forget that good mesmers use Illusionary Wave to interrupt, no matter if ur in stealth or not, using LOS or not.

Ever consider the possibility that getting your heal interrupted is simply the result of your poor play being punished? If you’re not considering the fact that you’ll need a way to protect your heal cast, then you’re playing poorly and deserve to be punished for it. Learn to consider that strategy when you enter a fight, play smart to counter it, and you’ll be rewarded by a successful heal.

Thats weird cuz my ‘poor play’ doesnt punish me against anothers professions. Of course i get trouble with thiefs chasing me simetimes, but tbh i can deal with it most of times. But, against mesmers… lol

Your poor play absolutely punishes you against any other profession that attempts to interrupt heals. The key is that mesmers punish you more. Want to know why?

Because interrupts and associated punishing effects are one of the main themes that Anet has consistently attempted to work into mesmer.

You just don’t like being punished for playing poorly. That’s ok, nobody likes being punished. Complaining about being punished for poor play is simply foolish though.

Nah against other profesions its like 50/50 or who makes more/less mistakes. Its not all about the heal interrupt, tbh this happens very rarely. I didnt mean the insta kills like this

So ok, i am a bad player, thats fine. But its still a unbalanced game if a bad player only get trouble with mesmers, dont you think? Bad players like me should get f****d by all professions. Or maybe all other’s profession’s players are just bad as me.

Or maybe you do get destroyed by all professions, but get particularly irritated fighting mesmers because our mechanics are easy to hate and are the FOTM thing to whine on the forums about.

And no, claiming that you don’t get destroyed by all professions isn’t anywhere close to proof that you don’t get destroyed by all professions, as indicated by that lovely video you showed us where any burst build on any profession would have instakilled you since you play with a low FoV, camera zoomed in, and get tunnel vision on your target…but we already discussed this in the other thread, so no need to go over it again.

Daniel Handler.4816:

I much rather have an enhanced aoe capability, than a 1v1 dueling capability that doesn’t extend to PVE at all.

I’m not a majority-PvE player, but I’ve been doing a lot of PvE stuff this week on account of needing some swag and it being golem week anyway…

Post-patch mesmer can shatter in PvE! Like, well. It’s actually significantly more AoE action than we had before (against trash mobs).

Against things that aren’t trash mobs? I honestly haven’t found myself pining for massive AoE yet. Just relying on cleaves and reflects has been pretty good for me so far.

Also, I’ve been enjoying the ability to share Distortion with my buddies soooooo much. Got a really clutch res off with it yesterday. I’m actually having fun in PvE now, since it’s easier to make a PvE build that has some cool addons instead of just going all reflects and a pile of static damage boosters.

Fay.2357:

WilnerGW.3275:

Fay.2357:

WilnerGW.3275:

Fay.2357:

WilnerGW.3275:

Mak.2657:

WilnerGW.3275
Power ranger or necro?
Probably not a power ranger – any decent heal themselves in stealth. Thus necro?
Use LoS.
Other classes not even using interruptible healing skills or do it in stealth too (mesmer). Even guardian Litany of wrath is non interraptible now (cast time reduced from 3/4 to 1/4).

Yep, this is in an ideal cenario. But in team fights sometimes u alrdy used ur CDs to stay alive or cant use LOS due ur actual position, then u try to heal urself…LOL 15 secs CD in ur face. This is totally game-changing

Yes im power ranger, but u cant forget that good mesmers use Illusionary Wave to interrupt, no matter if ur in stealth or not, using LOS or not.

Ever consider the possibility that getting your heal interrupted is simply the result of your poor play being punished? If you’re not considering the fact that you’ll need a way to protect your heal cast, then you’re playing poorly and deserve to be punished for it. Learn to consider that strategy when you enter a fight, play smart to counter it, and you’ll be rewarded by a successful heal.

Thats weird cuz my ‘poor play’ doesnt punish me against anothers professions. Of course i get trouble with thiefs chasing me simetimes, but tbh i can deal with it most of times. But, against mesmers… lol

Your poor play absolutely punishes you against any other profession that attempts to interrupt heals. The key is that mesmers punish you more. Want to know why?

Because interrupts and associated punishing effects are one of the main themes that Anet has consistently attempted to work into mesmer.

You just don’t like being punished for playing poorly. That’s ok, nobody likes being punished. Complaining about being punished for poor play is simply foolish though.

Nah against other profesions its like 50/50 or who makes more/less mistakes. Its not all about the heal interrupt, tbh this happens very rarely. I didnt mean the insta kills like this

So ok, i am a bad player, thats fine. But its still a unbalanced game if a bad player only get trouble with mesmers, dont you think? Bad players like me should get f****d by all professions. Or maybe all other’s profession’s players are just bad as me.

Or maybe you do get destroyed by all professions, but get particularly irritated fighting mesmers because our mechanics are easy to hate and are the FOTM thing to whine on the forums about.

And no, claiming that you don’t get destroyed by all professions isn’t anywhere close to proof that you don’t get destroyed by all professions, as indicated by that lovely video you showed us where any burst build on any profession would have instakilled you since you play with a low FoV, camera zoomed in, and get tunnel vision on your target…but we already discussed this in the other thread, so no need to go over it again.

No, tbh i think thief mechanics are easier to hate than mesmers..ask any power ranger…. that Shadow Shot(d/p #3) is a pain in the a** for us to counter, plus teleports and blinds. But as i said, we can deal with it. Sometimes we die, sometimes we kill.

Again, that video is just an example lol that happens alot in SPVP, with my allies or enemys.

The idea of ‘protecting’ your heal comes solely from a mesmer’s perspective who hasn’t seen the side of other classes. This isn’t the case for most classes though.

Warrior / Ele are already exempt from this because they don’t need to ‘protect’ their heal except keep poison off as no pvp eles run ether renewal and warrior healing signet is mandatory in any build. As a necro , he would laugh at you for saying ‘get punished for using your heal’ as there is no stab uptime on necro builds for PvP to reliably ‘cover’ your heal – so he’s just automatically punished for trying to heal himself? Or just try to fear you so you can MoA him and return it to blow another fear just to get a heal off with low health? Keeping in mind also , blinds affect the fear as well which blind is being spammed around ridiculously right now since it applies even if you dodge the shatters and evades and blocks right now.

Guardian automatically blocks while healing , so against mesmers I guess getting punished is automatically thrown out?

Thing to realize is not everyone has huge amounts of stab uptime, or invulns or stealth or evades to cover their heals. Not many classes have huge amount of ways to protect their heal on demand like mesmer does and the classes that do don’t even need to use heal (warrior/ele)…

Not all classes get to have instant mantra heals and be able to do a blurred frenzy while healing yourself, or distorting and healing yourself, or invising to heal yourself except thief and SOMETIMES ranger (with the blinds going around like hot cakes it’s hard to even land hunter’s shot nowadays , but still do-able).

This mentality of ‘protecting your heal or get punished’ is obviously only could be said from a mesmer because when mesmer vs mesmer fights occur it’s almost essential to cover your heal, it’s like such an important mindset for mesmer, but it doesn’t work like that with everyone else.

I’m just not sure I agree with that philosophy, if everyone had the utility in sustain mesmer had to handle positional setups / dmg mitigation / stealth then yea , I could absolutely see getting punished for misusing an intended heal , but it’s not like that for most classes.

I don’t understand this ‘most classes’
Only class have problem with interruptible heal is necro. Though necro (with condi transfer and lf sustaun) is at good spot right now and is most dangerous class for most condi/hybrid builds. Necro still can los. It is not utulity skill though. Every other class can cover heal or have no need to cover it. As ranger u has 10-12s CD for stealth skill. Or just use healing spring (pretty good skill with leap combos).

blitzkrieg.2451:

Not all classes get to have instant mantra heals and be able to do a blurred frenzy while healing yourself, or distorting and healing yourself, or invising to heal yourself except thief and SOMETIMES ranger (with the blinds going around like hot cakes it’s hard to even land hunter’s shot nowadays , but still do-able).

Hah, that’s rather amusing. As if the mantra heal doesn’t have an enormous counterable channel.

At any rate, lets see here…

Warrior: no interrupts possible
Ele: no interrupts possible
Engineer: 1/2 channel; interruptable only by luck
Ranger: Stealth/stab/disable transfer to pet to cover heal
Mesmer: Stealth to cover heal
Guardian: No interrupts possible unless unblockable cc
Edit: Thief: No interrupt possible due to withdraw Stealth/blinds to cover heal

Really the only class that has difficulty protecting their heal through skilled play is necro, and that’s only one of a bunch of pressing issues that class has.

I suggest a fix:
Thief: no interrupt possible.

Most of them use withdraw
Necros in theory can use Foot in the Grave trait too

Mak.2657:

I suggest a fix:
Thief: no interrupt possible.

Most of thief use withdraw
Necros in theory can use Foot in the Grave trait too

Good call. FitG isn’t really a viable option to protect the heal though, as it forces them to flash in and out of death shroud just to cast a heal.

Oh, dear, sure they can.

Nerfs are always coming. No matter the playstyle. No matter the class.

Just…

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/55/2e/fb/552efb0575ca5025d14ec27e4e7825cf.jpg

Fay.2357:

snip

I understand your post, and you make valid points but you don’t analyze it further than simply giving some ways a couple classes can cover their heals and how a majority of the classes are exempt from punishment in the first place. This is important to note.

Your post is rather biased in many ways regarding mesmer covers, as a mesmer player myself I know there’s more than just stealth to cover your heal (much more actually, lol) and more reliable ways than any class now that you have access to a plethora of blinds with BD.

Let’s look at mesmer’s abilities to effectively cover a heal:

1. Any shatter can essentially cover your heal because you can simply blind their CC (you could also essentially chaos storm as well for blinds),
2. distortion
3. reflect using mirror
4. daze shatter a melee spec , you can actually even cast ether feast and teleport at the same time (similar to casting izerker and then teleporting behind the player as it’s a channel cast and not cancelled by instants) if you wanted.
5. You also have mantra of concentration,
6. bountiful disillusionment

In order to say you’re punishing the other person for using their heal, you would have to put everyone on equal ground to be able to cover their heal or make it not so easy to punish people in the first place.

Like you even said, 3 classes automatically don’t need to cover their heal in the first place, thieves also usually run withdrawal which is an evade on the heal – so their exempt as well. Engineers, also like you said have such a low interval on the turret blast + it interrupts as well so it’s very rare to interrupt it, although it still is possible only if you’re lucky.

That leaves the other classes open for punishment as none of your interrupts go through block (guardian).

That leaves ranger / mesmer. We’ve discussed mesmer’s abilities of covering heal (which is also roughly 3x better and much more available than ranger is).

Let’s look at ranger ways of covering heal:

1. Assuming you’re in longbow , any other weapon set they lose that one way of covering , just so you know. Stealth so if you’re blinded, or if it’s dodged – this is important to note , because it’s a high telegraph weapon skill that can easily be reflected as well , and if it’s reflected? Guess what, it gives the person who reflected it stealth. So you have a high risk using it just to get stealth in order to heal. Pretty rewarding if you can get it off.

2. Shared anguish, as you mentioned is also on a 60s ICD – you don’t mention this at all and against a mesmer you’re most likely going to be putting than on ICD in the first 5 seconds of the fight , that mean you have (assuming you’re using the most common heal , Troll Ungeant which with WK is on a 20s cd / without is 25s – as you would take since it would be 1 of 2 ways a ranger can cleanse conditions via traits) you lose that cover for the next 3 heals when traited, assuming you were using it as soon as it came up.

3. Stability: Probably the most effective way since you waste an elite just to get your heal off, pop an important signet (of the wild) or use the traited 50% health enlargement trait which procs signet of the wild. The problem is all of these are on 60s cooldowns, and are better reserved against CC chains anyway, and shouldn’t have to be used to cover heals that are on a 3rd of a cooldown, this ends up putting you vulnerable to cc chains to get bursted so essentially, getting the heal off ends up becoming worthless in the end but albeit all of this it’s still a good way to cover your heal.

4. One you didn’t mention for ranger though is you can taunt the player, which is 2s (if they run stability though then you lose that) and get a heal off in this time. It’s actually the probably the only realistic and good way to get a heal off actually since it’s on a 15s cooldown and can be done from range of your opponent , but stability is also good.

Knowing this, we’re now talking about punishment where 60%-70% of the classes can’t even receive punishment for it in the first place?

My post was simply illustrating that to a mesmer ‘punishing people for using their heal’ is literally only a mesmer mindset (mostly from dueling other mesmers, it’s probably one of the most important things aside from baiting distortion) because of how you have to play with mesmer but this also doesn’t apply to other classes as easily and you kind of agreed with me by stating more than half of the classes can’t be punished but only a select few, they don’t have access to coverage of heals like mesmer does now and some are exempt automatically from being punished. This is ultimately why I said it’s simply not good design that only a couple classes have to worry about receiving a 15s cooldown on top of trying to use a heal, but hey , just my train of thought in terms of punishing people for using a heal.

1 ShotMesmerHappy, get ready.
The nerf is coming.

You forgot necros. They are at worse position at healing covering .
Hunter shot high telegraphed? Emm? It is hardly could be reflected on reaction. Anyway if troubled with reflect/dodges use it on thing that cant reflect/dodge – clones, pets, stunned, structures, builds w/o reflects etc.
Though I agree that healing interrupt should be more common thing

Mak.2657:

You forgot necros. They are at worse position at healing covering .
Hunter shot high telegraphed? Emm? It is hardly could be reflected on reaction. Anyway if troubled with reflect/dodges use it on thing that cant reflect/dodge – clones, pets, stunned, structures, builds w/o reflects etc.
Though I agree that healing interrupt should be more common thing

Agreed, you make a good point about hitting a clone for invis.

I think it’s a cool idea to punish people for using heal half-hazardly, it’s just only a couple classes are able to even get punished for it which also means it might not even be used much for this reason, so maybe it’s not that bad at all.