Guild Wars 2

so what you guys think so far for each build in pvp

bunker/support mesmer
power shatter mesmer
powerlock mesmer
condi shatter mesmer

my thoughts :
bunker/support mesmer – nicely done with support and boonshare. can handle 1v2 on point. but does ele can share 2 boons and auras and cleanse better now?!
power shatter mesmer – does it really need chorno and wells?
powerlock mesmer – more suitable with chorno imo. but can it enter the pvp arena mid high lvl? i just wish
condi shatter mesmer – chorno doesnt really suit condi shatter. slow with confusion doest work well. but still this build works but do you really want to take condi chorno into pvp (same as condi shatter before)

messiah.1908:

condi shatter mesmer – chorno doesnt really suit condi shatter. slow with confusion doest work well. but still this build works but do you really want to take condi chorno into pvp (same as condi shatter before)

Didn’t actually test that yet, but you do not have to use slow as a chronomancer. You could go for DE, increased scepter attackspeed, and quickness on shatter (and the rest of the traits like you want/what makes the most sense for you with a condi shatter build). Could be a hard decision between improved alacrity duration and clone on shatter, though. Possibly with staff and scepter/shield or so. Maybe you don’t even need DE; dunno (as I didn’t test it yet). But I assume you’d get quite some clone-production going with the scepter auto-attack, lots of shatters and a kinda high alacrity uptime.

Saturn.6591:

messiah.1908:

condi shatter mesmer – chorno doesnt really suit condi shatter. slow with confusion doest work well. but still this build works but do you really want to take condi chorno into pvp (same as condi shatter before)

Didn’t actually test that yet, but you do not have to use slow as a chronomancer. You could go for DE, increased scepter attackspeed, and quickness on shatter (and the rest of the traits like you want/what makes the most sense for you with a condi shatter build). Could be a hard decision between improved alacrity duration and clone on shatter, though. Possibly with staff and scepter/shield or so. Maybe you don’t even need DE; dunno (as I didn’t test it yet). But I assume you’d get quite some clone-production going with the scepter auto-attack, lots of shatters and a kinda high alacrity uptime.

slow from shield
goind DE means i dont take chaos so no stability and protection and reflect while getting 1 more clone every 8 sec inaverage and little bleeding stakcs.

with chorno i dont have problem to create clones although its not fast as i would want it to be like DE.

messiah.1908:

Saturn.6591:

messiah.1908:

condi shatter mesmer – chorno doesnt really suit condi shatter. slow with confusion doest work well. but still this build works but do you really want to take condi chorno into pvp (same as condi shatter before)

Didn’t actually test that yet, but you do not have to use slow as a chronomancer. You could go for DE, increased scepter attackspeed, and quickness on shatter (and the rest of the traits like you want/what makes the most sense for you with a condi shatter build). Could be a hard decision between improved alacrity duration and clone on shatter, though. Possibly with staff and scepter/shield or so. Maybe you don’t even need DE; dunno (as I didn’t test it yet). But I assume you’d get quite some clone-production going with the scepter auto-attack, lots of shatters and a kinda high alacrity uptime.

slow from shield
goind DE means i dont take chaos so no stability and protection and reflect while getting 1 more clone every 8 sec inaverage and little bleeding stakcs.

with chorno i dont have problem to create clones although its not fast as i would want it to be like DE.

This is my dilemma also – losing Stability on Shatter, traited mirror and blink for reflects, protection and regen, and increased boon/condition duration from Chaos.

In exchange though we do get superspeed illusions, +25% movement speed allowing use of things like Tormenting Runes, fastest possible cooldowns on shatters and everything else, more illusion generation (helped by Cp), and of course the benefits of F5.

Ultimately I’d say it might be better to go Chaos/Illusions/Chrono with Scepter/Torch (for extra condi removal through the pledge) + Staff traiting bountiful disillusionment, mirror and so on.

I absolutely believe that Improved Alacrity is better than Illusionary Reversion if taking DE and Chronophantasma – because the amount of illusions will be in excess anyway and IR is just overkill. If not taking either one of DE or Cp then perhaps IR is more useful but I haven’t tested that yet. The extra alacrity uptime certainly works better for me than one potential extra clone to shatter.

Agree with most of what OP said, although I think Condie Shatter is sadly in a pretty bad state. The nerf to MtD was both necessary in light of Chrono, but also is a large reason why Condie Shatter is now underwhelming. Not to mention that w/o Chrono to chain shatter, it’s in an even worse state. So once again, Chronomancy required for even a subpar Condition build.

That and the nerfs to Torch #4 (indirect nerf), and the Phantasm (direct nerf), has left Condition specs in a really bad place. Then to top it all off they nerf the Pistol trait before ever even letting us test it….it’s single target and a slow multi-hit attack for christs sake! I don’t know what they thought they needed to nerf there.

1) We need at least 2 stacks of Burn on The Prestige, just to bring it back up to where it was before, and ditto for the iMage attack.

2) Add back the old +50% bonus to Torment damage on MtD, you know the one you nerfed before ever letting us test it? Now that you’ve nerfed MtD into oblivion, I think it’s safe to say this bonus would be a very good compromise between the old MtD (2x Torment per shatter) and the nerfed new one. This is a “middle of the road” giving significantly more Torment damage when people do move, with the trade off of the same low damage when they’re not moving.

3) Confusion is simply not a Condition that you can base a class around, especially when the only real AE Burst has very short duration and is on twice the CD of the Power-based relative! At the very least, increase the base duration of Confusion from Cry of Frustration from 3 seconds to 5 seconds.

4) Why are all wells Power oriented? Why are there no Condition damage oriented Wells? Well of Calamity could easily apply 2x Confusion (2 second duration) per pulse, and a final burst of 4x Confusion for 4 seconds. You could do that without the need to change anything else about it, because Confusion damage w/o Condition damage is extremely bad anyway.

5) Mistrust is in really bad shape. I have no idea why ANet claimed this thing had any potential at all, when it was obvious on paper that it was a poor GM. Traitline defining? 2 stacks of Confusion? Really? I’d rather trade this non-existent synergy that relies entirely on an extremely rare event, for a simple 5x AoE Confusion for 5 seconds centered around the interrupted target 240 radius. And even that is not enough to compete with other GMs, so it would need something else…something cool and unique to make it worth creating a Condition interrupt build around. (Which currently just isn’t viable!)

It’s sad because they had some really good ideas early on, and for some completely whacked reason went off on a nerfing parade. When you think about not only the MtD and Torch nerfs a bit ago, but add to that the PU nerf and adjustments to Chronomancy it’s easy to see why Condition Mesmers are where they are….back in the gutter where they’ve always been, even before they ever saw the Chrono patch go live!

People cry loudly about Power Mesmer burst damage, but they cry even louder whenever there is even a semblance of a competitive Mesmer condition build!

Windwalker.7421:

Agree with most of what OP said, although I think Condie Shatter is sadly in a pretty bad state. The nerf to MtD was both necessary in light of Chrono, but also is a large reason why Condie Shatter is now underwhelming. Not to mention that w/o Chrono to chain shatter, it’s in an even worse state. So once again, Chronomancy required for even a subpar Condition build.

That and the nerfs to Torch #4 (indirect nerf), and the Phantasm (direct nerf), has left Condition specs in a really bad place. Then to top it all off they nerf the Pistol trait before ever even letting us test it….it’s single target and a slow multi-hit attack for christs sake! I don’t know what they thought they needed to nerf there.

1) We need at least 2 stacks of Burn on The Prestige, just to bring it back up to where it was before, and ditto for the iMage attack.

2) Add back the old +50% bonus to Torment damage on MtD, you know the one you nerfed before ever letting us test it? Now that you’ve nerfed MtD into oblivion, I think it’s safe to say this bonus would be a very good compromise between the old MtD (2x Torment per shatter) and the nerfed new one. This is a “middle of the road” giving significantly more Torment damage when people do move, with the trade off of the same low damage when they’re not moving.

3) Confusion is simply not a Condition that you can base a class around, especially when the only real AE Burst has very short duration and is on twice the CD of the Power-based relative! At the very least, increase the base duration of Confusion from Cry of Frustration from 3 seconds to 5 seconds.

4) Why are all wells Power oriented? Why are there no Condition damage oriented Wells? Well of Calamity could easily apply 2x Confusion (2 second duration) per pulse, and a final burst of 4x Confusion for 4 seconds. You could do that without the need to change anything else about it, because Confusion damage w/o Condition damage is extremely bad anyway.

5) Mistrust is in really bad shape. I have no idea why ANet claimed this thing had any potential at all, when it was obvious on paper that it was a poor GM. Traitline defining? 2 stacks of Confusion? Really? I’d rather trade this non-existent synergy that relies entirely on an extremely rare event, for a simple 5x AoE Confusion for 5 seconds centered around the interrupted target 240 radius. And even that is not enough to compete with other GMs, so it would need something else…something cool and unique to make it worth creating a Condition interrupt build around. (Which currently just isn’t viable!)

It’s sad because they had some really good ideas early on, and for some completely whacked reason went off on a nerfing parade. When you think about not only the MtD and Torch nerfs a bit ago, but add to that the PU nerf and adjustments to Chronomancy it’s easy to see why Condition Mesmers are where they are….back in the gutter where they’ve always been, even before they ever saw the Chrono patch go live!

People cry loudly about Power Mesmer burst damage, but they cry even louder whenever there is even a semblance of a competitive Mesmer condition build!

When did the MtD nerf occur? j/c

Salamander.2504:

When did the MtD nerf occur? j/c

About 3 hours after the last major patch before HoT.

I haven’t been on since HoT dropped, but I remember condi chrono had some great sustain during the BWEs.

I ran with Sword-Shield/Scepter Pistol; Dueling/Illusions/Chronomancy. I’d use blocks/blurs in tandem with the healing well to cleanse conditions if I had to. Both sets have solid stuns and sword swaps make for some sweet shatter setups.

Slow seemed like more of a defensive condition rather than an offensive one the way it is with power. In that same vein, though Well of Calamity does power damage, it drops a lot of weakness and cripple, which are again really stellar defensive conditions.

However, confusion is a tough condition to work with that really needs to land properly. Using the same weaponset, and with PU instead of Chrono, the confusion “burst” was a really way to +1 or gank on points — blindsiding an elementalist with a confusing images + CoF shatter. It’s hard to make the most of confusion, but like an interrupt, I think people just need to find the right time to let it rip. My main complaint is that Mesmer has great application of the condition, but not many traits that really augment it.

I’m running a “team-fighter” build. Not tanky as a bunker, but still good support, decent sustain and quite high damage. Love it!

I agree with Windwalker regarding adding a +50% torment damage to moving targets with MtD, which would be a compromise between when it was 2 stacks (which is obviously too much) and now when it is one stack (which isn’t good enough).

It would also be nice to see Confusing Combatants added back in the Duelling gm minor for confusion on crit. Give it an ICD if you like but it would go a long way to solidifying condi builds, also allowing weapons like mainhand sword, greatsword and focus to be useable in condition builds for more variety. And it would rely on high precision for crits so Dire “cancer” builds in wvw would not benefit from it.

Curunen.8729:

I agree with Windwalker regarding adding a +50% torment damage to moving targets with MtD, which would be a compromise between when it was 2 stacks (which is obviously too much) and now when it is one stack (which isn’t good enough).

It would also be nice to see Confusing Combatants added back in the Duelling gm minor for confusion on crit. Give it an ICD if you like but it would go a long way to solidifying condi builds, also allowing weapons like mainhand sword, greatsword and focus to be useable in condition builds for more variety. And it would rely on high precision for crits so Dire “cancer” builds in wvw would not benefit from it.

I’d rather see confusing combatants added onto mistrust. That would actually make it competitive instead of just flat out bad.

Fay.2357:

Curunen.8729:

I agree with Windwalker regarding adding a +50% torment damage to moving targets with MtD, which would be a compromise between when it was 2 stacks (which is obviously too much) and now when it is one stack (which isn’t good enough).

It would also be nice to see Confusing Combatants added back in the Duelling gm minor for confusion on crit. Give it an ICD if you like but it would go a long way to solidifying condi builds, also allowing weapons like mainhand sword, greatsword and focus to be useable in condition builds for more variety. And it would rely on high precision for crits so Dire “cancer” builds in wvw would not benefit from it.

I’d rather see confusing combatants added onto mistrust. That would actually make it competitive instead of just flat out bad.

Tbh the whole Duelling line could do with a reshuffle.

I wouldn’t mind seeing:

Adept Minor – Critical Infusion
Adept Majors:
- Phantasmal Fury
- Evasive Mirror
- Duelist’s Discipline

Master Minor – Sharper Images
Master Majors:
- Fencer’s Finesse
- Blinding Dissipation
- Targeted Parry (gain 2 seconds of Blur when you interrupt a foe. 10s ICD)

GM Minor – Flummox (only you, the player, deal 1 stack of confusion for 4 seconds on crit. Gain 15% increased crit chance against foes inflicted with confusion)
GM Majors:
- Harmonious Mantras (see below for detailed rework)
- Deceptive Evasion
- Mistrust (interrupted targets incur 4 stacks of confusion for 6 seconds on interrupt and nearby uninterrupted enemies incur 2 stacks of confusion for 6 seconds in a 240 radius. All phantasms now also deal 1 stack of confusion for 4 seconds when they crit.)

Harmonious Mantras of course needs a buff so I’d suggest:
1) Mantras can have 3 charges.
2) Increase a unique stat by 50 points for you and nearby allies (600 radius) for each charge readied for each mantra to a maximum of 150 points if fully charged.
- Mantra of Recovery – 50 healing power per charge readied
- Mantra of Pain – 50 power per charge readied
- Mantra of Resolve – 50 vitality per charge readied
- Mantra of Distraction – 50 toughness per charge readied
- Mantra of Concentration – 5% boon duration per charge readied
3) Activating a mantra causes a stacking damage bonus effect – 4% per charge activated and shares this in a 240 radius with nearby allies.
4) Activating a mantra also pulses a unique effect to nearby allies in addition to their normal effects (pbaoe, 240 radius, up to 5 allies):
- Mantra of Recovery – shares 6 seconds of Regen
- Mantra of Pain – shares 5 seconds of Might (3 stacks)
- Mantra of Resolve – shares 2 seconds of Resistance
- Mantra of Distraction – shares 3 seconds of Protection
- Mantra of Concentration – shares 3 seconds of Aegis

I know that’s pretty complex but I don’t think it’s any more involved than say Master of Fragmentation on Bountiful Disillusionment. Also I feel the aoe share would help the pve folks and also make it more interesting in teamfights.

Mistrust should then work well with Pistol, Focus (iWarden and Duelist will have good confusion and bleed stacking potential) and condirupt builds in general. It should be more punishing to enemies who let themselves be interrupted, but less punishing to enemies who are not at fault for the sake of their teammates bad play. I think it’s unfair if you get hit with a full 4 stacks of confusion because your ally standing next to you got themselves interrupted but you didn’t. DE is still there for shatter heavy builds, and HM for the pve or mantra players.

Flummox allows for better personal confusion application and allows players to experiment with greatsword and sword in condition builds among other things. It also provides increased crit chance if a foe has confusion so it is still a useful minor trait for non-condition builds.

Clones still only cause bleeding on crit through SI, because I feel confusion on crit for them would be too powerful so it should be limited to player and phantasms (if traited) only.

I feel this would provide an interesting line up for interrupt builds – targeted parry would help interrupt builds more in 1v2+ situations and teamfights because of course in 1v1 you probably don’t need the blur when you interrupt someone. Offhand sword would be more manageable in team fights. Pistol and Focus would have interesting defence based on using into the void and magic bullet successfully.

Obviously this is very rough and there’s many things I’ve not thought through, so I’ll come back and edit this on further thinking.

For the record i’s so kittening difficult to reshuffle Duelling because there are 3 skill cooldown traits that cannot be in the same tier and none of them can be minors – mantras, sword/spear and pistol. Unlike every other traitline which only has a maximum of 2 skill cooldown enhancement traits… It’s extremely annoying and creates huge limitations.

Not sure how viable with the build traitlines it is but powerlock with slow on interrupt trait could be the mesmer equivalent of a chill reaper, with slightly less counters.
I’ve been entertaining myself with a Chaotic Dampening well chrono-chaos armour plus alacrity allows for a suprisingly viable staff.