Guild Wars 2

Anyone see any hope for Chrono/Mesmer dps with the new expansion? I have seen the “leaks” in regards to axe, which sounds fun but not really so much if the class itself doesn’t get some kind of love in the way of PVE dps increase.
Anyone have any rumors/clues/thoughts as to if this might actually happen or will Mesmer/Chrono be forever the support class?

No rumors or leaks, those would not be allowed to get shared on the official forums anyway.

Personally I’m not getting my hopes up. The devs haven’t been all to promising in the past in showing that they even understand the mesmer class and how it works.

That paired with our very disadvantageous class mechanic (relying on temporary summons to do damage) and our current position in the damage table (deadbeat last, by a mile, no actually by a galaxy) makes me not all to hopeful that within the scope of some rework we might become viable (raid or fractal damage wise). Even if so, the damage which would have to be given to our phantasms and the strip of defensive abilities required to keep our class balanced in spvp and wvw would make short work of any higher tier damage build we might get.

Does this put me off the class? Not really, I’ve accepted my mesmer fate. The only question that keeps me occupied is only if (and how hard) chronomancer gets nerfed and will some other class outperform us in our current strong fields (raidtank, superb group support, group damage amplifier).

With all this doom and gloom let me say though: I am looking forward to the expanion and especially axe on mesmer. I’m not usually someone who gets put off by his main not being the flavor of the month cookie, though I would miss playing my mesmer. Then again, I have 22 other characters which can fill raid/fractal spots or get used for world pve stuff after I map complete everything on my main (she has to stay 100% always!).

According to the leaks, Mirage is a DPS focused elite spec and we get a new Dodge mechanism – instead of dodging we blur. Take this for what it’s worth and not as official.

Good point. yea, I see what you mean in terms of the dps ramp-up needed being an actual thing but it sure would blow if other classes became the “new” chrono, so to speak. Be nice to see if that did happen that maybe ANET spread the love, i.e support classes can bring ANY support. Being a cPS in our raids currently I am constantly being told that I cant die else the dps of the whole team fails. That’s a lot of pressure!!! So having another class be able to pick up the slack if that did happen would be cool (Chrono) but then again why add yet another thing for Chrono to worry about?
And yea, axe sounds fun, and I can do without top dps if what I am playing is fun!

phokus.8934:

According to the leaks, Mirage is a DPS focused elite spec and we get a new Dodge mechanism – instead of dodging we blur. Take this for what it’s worth and not as official.

It’s also rumoured and I had a source confirm over a year ago it was going to be condi dps with buffing our phantasms which is probably where the strange change to iSwordsman came from. Could have changed since my source last played the alpha/beta but yeah we will see soon no doubt.

apharma.3741:

phokus.8934:

According to the leaks, Mirage is a DPS focused elite spec and we get a new Dodge mechanism – instead of dodging we blur. Take this for what it’s worth and not as official.

It’s also rumoured and I had a source confirm over a year ago it was going to be condi dps with buffing our phantasms which is probably where the strange change to iSwordsman came from. Could have changed since my source last played the alpha/beta but yeah we will see soon no doubt.

I heard the same and that it was eventually morphed into a more traditional dps spec but who knows at this point. I just want a dps elite. :-|

“I heard the same and that it was eventually morphed into a more traditional dps spec but who knows at this point. I just want a dps elite. :-|”

That would be cool!

Chrono wont get any dps buff core mesmer and esp trait line that dobt focus on support will prob be buffed in terms of dmg.

apharma.3741:

phokus.8934:

According to the leaks, Mirage is a DPS focused elite spec and we get a new Dodge mechanism – instead of dodging we blur. Take this for what it’s worth and not as official.

It’s also rumoured and I had a source confirm over a year ago it was going to be condi dps with buffing our phantasms which is probably where the strange change to iSwordsman came from. Could have changed since my source last played the alpha/beta but yeah we will see soon no doubt.

That’s not the DPS spec we need truthfully. Phantasms are still way too fragile in competitive environments.

And we need a DPS spec, bad. Right now its ok because Chrono is still the go to tank because of quickness and alacrity. But we already have Revs that can pump out high amounts of alacrity and its been rumored one of the new elite specs will be able to pump out quickness like chrono can (and truthfully there’s nothing stopping them from giving alacrity to yet another class). Which means that a class with such ridiculously low damage will lose out and the role of quickness and alacrity, and those buffs will just come from 2 party members now. If mesmer doesn’t get a DPS spec its just going to lose its spot, forever.

OriOri.8724:

apharma.3741:

phokus.8934:

According to the leaks, Mirage is a DPS focused elite spec and we get a new Dodge mechanism – instead of dodging we blur. Take this for what it’s worth and not as official.

It’s also rumoured and I had a source confirm over a year ago it was going to be condi dps with buffing our phantasms which is probably where the strange change to iSwordsman came from. Could have changed since my source last played the alpha/beta but yeah we will see soon no doubt.

That’s not the DPS spec we need truthfully. Phantasms are still way too fragile in competitive environments.

And we need a DPS spec, bad. Right now its ok because Chrono is still the go to tank because of quickness and alacrity. But we already have Revs that can pump out high amounts of alacrity and its been rumored one of the new elite specs will be able to pump out quickness like chrono can (and truthfully there’s nothing stopping them from giving alacrity to yet another class). Which means that a class with such ridiculously low damage will lose out and the role of quickness and alacrity, and those buffs will just come from 2 party members now. If mesmer doesn’t get a DPS spec its just going to lose its spot, forever.

I know but ANet does what ANet wants. Looks like Phokus has a more up to date source than mine as I haven’t heard anything for over a year and some of the stuff was a little unsettling. Would be nice if it’s more focused on damage from skills instead of phantasms but we will have to wait and see.

I’d love to know if they actually figured out wtf they’re doing with the ele elite because it sounded a complete unworkable mess last I heard.

I somehow completely missed his comment when I read this thread. The ele leak looked cool as kitten, but I agree that it did sound as if they didn’t really know what they wanted to do with it. Plus, if that leak was correct that’s a ton of skills they are going to have to design for that single elite spec. It will be a huge task, hopefully they can put out something pretty great regardless though.

In pve at least pantasms arent as fragile tbh. And simce mesmer has the phantams as a unique aspecs while ot to a spet further with it. A dps that just uses its onw skils for dps is like every other dps.

OriOri.8724:

apharma.3741:

phokus.8934:

According to the leaks, Mirage is a DPS focused elite spec and we get a new Dodge mechanism – instead of dodging we blur. Take this for what it’s worth and not as official.

It’s also rumoured and I had a source confirm over a year ago it was going to be condi dps with buffing our phantasms which is probably where the strange change to iSwordsman came from. Could have changed since my source last played the alpha/beta but yeah we will see soon no doubt.

That’s not the DPS spec we need truthfully. Phantasms are still way too fragile in competitive environments.

And we need a DPS spec, bad. Right now its ok because Chrono is still the go to tank because of quickness and alacrity. But we already have Revs that can pump out high amounts of alacrity and its been rumored one of the new elite specs will be able to pump out quickness like chrono can (and truthfully there’s nothing stopping them from giving alacrity to yet another class). Which means that a class with such ridiculously low damage will lose out and the role of quickness and alacrity, and those buffs will just come from 2 party members now. If mesmer doesn’t get a DPS spec its just going to lose its spot, forever.

Rev alacrity is a joke and they cant do anything else while spamming those short 2s of it, if they want to even try and keep it permanent. As for rumor that other spec is getting quickness, its just that – rumors. Until official info comes around I will be very sceptical about it. I dont see why they would need to just copy/paste the chrono design onto another spec, instead of making something new and original. I bet many ppl will not be happy and most of all.. us, chrono mains. Leave what is tested and proved to work fine, as it is and try to come up with something fresh and interesting. Thats the most logical path the devs must take, imo.

The game is becoming stale. It needs new design and fresh ideas thrown in and the possible mesmer dps spec seems a step in the right direction if done right, like they did with the chrono. We really need something to pull us off a bit from the support pit we are right now, but that shouldnt happen at the cost of scraping off chrono completely, as a viable support choice.

We will wait and see I guess. Till then its all just speculations, anyway.

If they were to move away from future quickness stackers then chrono’s buffing capabilities would need to be massively nerfed to balance out with other future mesmer specs which also need to be balance with other non support build of other classes.

apharma.3741:

phokus.8934:

According to the leaks, Mirage is a DPS focused elite spec and we get a new Dodge mechanism – instead of dodging we blur. Take this for what it’s worth and not as official.

It’s also rumoured and I had a source confirm over a year ago it was going to be condi dps with buffing our phantasms which is probably where the strange change to iSwordsman came from. Could have changed since my source last played the alpha/beta but yeah we will see soon no doubt.

Then it will be useless for anything except Golem dps benchmarks.

zealex.9410:

If they were to move away from future quickness stackers then chrono’s buffing capabilities would need to be massively nerfed to balance out with other future mesmer specs which also need to be balance with other non support build of other classes.

Easy enough to do, remove boon-sharing from the Signet, done.

Signet is but a small part.

People say Mesmer is a support class only. I think that is not accurate, I play my Mes and take the Commander position alot. I have 2, Norn and Sylvari. My Sylvari is my favorite. She is fast and very agile, we can’t stand still so the quicknesx of the Sylvari comes in handy. I always look for a perch or rock to fight from, and use Phants etc, this frees me to direct my squad. I normally run Berserker, with Chrono runes, but I got interested in DS armor so now I use chest and leggings from DS and the rest Temple of Grenth Berserker. I last a lot longer now with the added health. I use Chorbens Greatsword since I prefer ranged, and an exotic zerker staff until I get another Ascended chest from Teq lol

I really think some wanting more dps really don’t put the wrench time in learning how to fight and stay alive. Mesmers are deceptively dangerous, you just need a game plan. I used to hate running around DS now I love it, Mordrem only catch a glimpse of me, then they wonder what hit them.

To be fair though, I was a runner on my Assassin in GW1, getting around mobs is second nature now.

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

People say Mesmer is a support class only. I think that is not accurate, I play my Mes and take the Commander position alot. I have 2, Norn and Sylvari. My Sylvari is my favorite. She is fast and very agile, we can’t stand still so the quicknesx of the Sylvari comes in handy. I always look for a perch or rock to fight from, and use Phants etc, this frees me to direct my squad. I normally run Berserker, with Chrono runes, but I got interested in DS armor so now I use chest and leggings from DS and the rest Temple of Grenth Berserker. I last a lot longer now with the added health. I use Chorbens Greatsword since I prefer ranged, and an exotic zerker staff until I get another Ascended chest from Teq lol

I really think some wanting more dps really don’t put the wrench time in learning how to fight and stay alive. Mesmers are deceptively dangerous, you just need a game plan. I used to hate running around DS now I love it, Mordrem only catch a glimpse of me, then they wonder what hit them.

To be fair though, I was a runner on my Assassin in GW1, getting around mobs is second nature now.

You are providing subjective evidence to a factual disscussion.

Here the damage rotations and builds of one of the top raids guilds:
http://qtfy.eu/benchmarks/

The next step for you is to test your build, see if you can outperform top tier players in their class, if so share your build and findings with the community.

No one is talking about open world, dungeons or wvw which are absolutely meaningless (and you’d still be miles behind top tier dps classes). This is a raid/fractal top tier disscussion where classes are pushed to their peak performance.

Install a damage meter like bgdm or arcdps (better use bgdm) and actually log your damage rotations. No one cares about subjective “I am great” stories. Back them up with data please.

Also by support class people mean the actual support role withine a group setting. Being commander or not has nothing to do with this. I’ve commanded open world and raids on multiple characters including my mesmer, that’s not what people mean by role though.

Let’s be clear here, in order for people to even want to consider something other than chrono outside of solo or pvp/wvw content, the new spec will have to have enough DPS that it outpaces the boost we provide to an entire party, OR chrono will have to be nerfed to an even worse state that it may as well be made baseline. Or else, it also provides good alacrity/quickness access. Party speed boosts destroy games.

They’ll never substantially boost core traitlines again because that’s how they’ve chosen to deal with power creep.

Cyninja.2954:

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

People say Mesmer is a support class only. I think that is not accurate, I play my Mes and take the Commander position alot. I have 2, Norn and Sylvari. My Sylvari is my favorite. She is fast and very agile, we can’t stand still so the quicknesx of the Sylvari comes in handy. I always look for a perch or rock to fight from, and use Phants etc, this frees me to direct my squad. I normally run Berserker, with Chrono runes, but I got interested in DS armor so now I use chest and leggings from DS and the rest Temple of Grenth Berserker. I last a lot longer now with the added health. I use Chorbens Greatsword since I prefer ranged, and an exotic zerker staff until I get another Ascended chest from Teq lol

I really think some wanting more dps really don’t put the wrench time in learning how to fight and stay alive. Mesmers are deceptively dangerous, you just need a game plan. I used to hate running around DS now I love it, Mordrem only catch a glimpse of me, then they wonder what hit them.

To be fair though, I was a runner on my Assassin in GW1, getting around mobs is second nature now.

You are providing subjective evidence to a factual disscussion.

Here the damage rotations and builds of one of the top raids guilds:
http://qtfy.eu/benchmarks/

The next step for you is to test your build, see if you can outperform top tier players in their class, if so share your build and findings with the community.

No one is talking about open world, dungeons or wvw which are absolutely meaningless (and you’d still be miles behind top tier dps classes). This is a raid/fractal top tier disscussion where classes are pushed to their peak performance.

Install a damage meter like bgdm or arcdps (better use bgdm) and actually log your damage rotations. No one cares about subjective “I am great” stories. Back them up with data please.

Also by support class people mean the actual support role withine a group setting. Being commander or not has nothing to do with this. I’ve commanded open world and raids on multiple characters including my mesmer, that’s not what people mean by role though.

You can calculate minutae, or enjoy the game. Ignore stats, ignore, specs, and play. You’ll be much happier. Mesmer won’t be click click boom, who cares? Learn to play and stay alive, stop blaming the class.

That’s my opinion. Worrying over every change, every nerf or adjustment sucks all the fun out of the game. I have run with guilds in other games where you had to get a degree in your class. Ridiculous. Just play, wear your underwear on your head, and have fun. Game, remember?

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

Cyninja.2954:

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

People say Mesmer is a support class only. I think that is not accurate, I play my Mes and take the Commander position alot. I have 2, Norn and Sylvari. My Sylvari is my favorite. She is fast and very agile, we can’t stand still so the quicknesx of the Sylvari comes in handy. I always look for a perch or rock to fight from, and use Phants etc, this frees me to direct my squad. I normally run Berserker, with Chrono runes, but I got interested in DS armor so now I use chest and leggings from DS and the rest Temple of Grenth Berserker. I last a lot longer now with the added health. I use Chorbens Greatsword since I prefer ranged, and an exotic zerker staff until I get another Ascended chest from Teq lol

I really think some wanting more dps really don’t put the wrench time in learning how to fight and stay alive. Mesmers are deceptively dangerous, you just need a game plan. I used to hate running around DS now I love it, Mordrem only catch a glimpse of me, then they wonder what hit them.

To be fair though, I was a runner on my Assassin in GW1, getting around mobs is second nature now.

You are providing subjective evidence to a factual disscussion.

Here the damage rotations and builds of one of the top raids guilds:
http://qtfy.eu/benchmarks/

The next step for you is to test your build, see if you can outperform top tier players in their class, if so share your build and findings with the community.

No one is talking about open world, dungeons or wvw which are absolutely meaningless (and you’d still be miles behind top tier dps classes). This is a raid/fractal top tier disscussion where classes are pushed to their peak performance.

Install a damage meter like bgdm or arcdps (better use bgdm) and actually log your damage rotations. No one cares about subjective “I am great” stories. Back them up with data please.

Also by support class people mean the actual support role withine a group setting. Being commander or not has nothing to do with this. I’ve commanded open world and raids on multiple characters including my mesmer, that’s not what people mean by role though.

You can calculate minutae, or enjoy the game. Ignore stats, ignore, specs, and play. You’ll be much happier. Mesmer won’t be click click boom, who cares? Learn to play and stay alive, stop blaming the class.

That’s my opinion. Worrying over every change, every nerf or adjustment sucks all the fun out of the game. I have run with guilds in other games where you had to get a degree in your class. Ridiculous. Just play, wear your underwear on your head, and have fun. Game, remember?

True and that works great for non group content.

It won’t help you get into raids though. Not sure what you are arguing for. We are both talking about 2 very different game modes in this game, one of which you are not playing.

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

Cyninja.2954:

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

People say Mesmer is a support class only. I think that is not accurate, I play my Mes and take the Commander position alot. I have 2, Norn and Sylvari. My Sylvari is my favorite. She is fast and very agile, we can’t stand still so the quicknesx of the Sylvari comes in handy. I always look for a perch or rock to fight from, and use Phants etc, this frees me to direct my squad. I normally run Berserker, with Chrono runes, but I got interested in DS armor so now I use chest and leggings from DS and the rest Temple of Grenth Berserker. I last a lot longer now with the added health. I use Chorbens Greatsword since I prefer ranged, and an exotic zerker staff until I get another Ascended chest from Teq lol

I really think some wanting more dps really don’t put the wrench time in learning how to fight and stay alive. Mesmers are deceptively dangerous, you just need a game plan. I used to hate running around DS now I love it, Mordrem only catch a glimpse of me, then they wonder what hit them.

To be fair though, I was a runner on my Assassin in GW1, getting around mobs is second nature now.

You are providing subjective evidence to a factual disscussion.

Here the damage rotations and builds of one of the top raids guilds:
http://qtfy.eu/benchmarks/

The next step for you is to test your build, see if you can outperform top tier players in their class, if so share your build and findings with the community.

No one is talking about open world, dungeons or wvw which are absolutely meaningless (and you’d still be miles behind top tier dps classes). This is a raid/fractal top tier disscussion where classes are pushed to their peak performance.

Install a damage meter like bgdm or arcdps (better use bgdm) and actually log your damage rotations. No one cares about subjective “I am great” stories. Back them up with data please.

Also by support class people mean the actual support role withine a group setting. Being commander or not has nothing to do with this. I’ve commanded open world and raids on multiple characters including my mesmer, that’s not what people mean by role though.

You can calculate minutae, or enjoy the game. Ignore stats, ignore, specs, and play. You’ll be much happier. Mesmer won’t be click click boom, who cares? Learn to play and stay alive, stop blaming the class.

Happier? Maybe. You’ll also be bad.

I enjoy being a good player. I enjoy contributing to my party or squad. I enjoy completing challenging content. If I played like you play, I’d get kicked from every single squad without a second thought, and then I wouldn’t be happy.

Fay.2357:

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

Cyninja.2954:

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

People say Mesmer is a support class only. I think that is not accurate, I play my Mes and take the Commander position alot. I have 2, Norn and Sylvari. My Sylvari is my favorite. She is fast and very agile, we can’t stand still so the quicknesx of the Sylvari comes in handy. I always look for a perch or rock to fight from, and use Phants etc, this frees me to direct my squad. I normally run Berserker, with Chrono runes, but I got interested in DS armor so now I use chest and leggings from DS and the rest Temple of Grenth Berserker. I last a lot longer now with the added health. I use Chorbens Greatsword since I prefer ranged, and an exotic zerker staff until I get another Ascended chest from Teq lol

I really think some wanting more dps really don’t put the wrench time in learning how to fight and stay alive. Mesmers are deceptively dangerous, you just need a game plan. I used to hate running around DS now I love it, Mordrem only catch a glimpse of me, then they wonder what hit them.

To be fair though, I was a runner on my Assassin in GW1, getting around mobs is second nature now.

You are providing subjective evidence to a factual disscussion.

Here the damage rotations and builds of one of the top raids guilds:
http://qtfy.eu/benchmarks/

The next step for you is to test your build, see if you can outperform top tier players in their class, if so share your build and findings with the community.

No one is talking about open world, dungeons or wvw which are absolutely meaningless (and you’d still be miles behind top tier dps classes). This is a raid/fractal top tier disscussion where classes are pushed to their peak performance.

Install a damage meter like bgdm or arcdps (better use bgdm) and actually log your damage rotations. No one cares about subjective “I am great” stories. Back them up with data please.

Also by support class people mean the actual support role withine a group setting. Being commander or not has nothing to do with this. I’ve commanded open world and raids on multiple characters including my mesmer, that’s not what people mean by role though.

You can calculate minutae, or enjoy the game. Ignore stats, ignore, specs, and play. You’ll be much happier. Mesmer won’t be click click boom, who cares? Learn to play and stay alive, stop blaming the class.

Happier? Maybe. You’ll also be bad.

I enjoy being a good player. I enjoy contributing to my party or squad. I enjoy completing challenging content. If I played like you play, I’d get kicked from every single squad without a second thought, and then I wouldn’t be happy.

You would not get invited to our squads, elitest players not allowed :P. If you want to feel at home go to SWTOR, you must prove via achs if you can run with the big dogs. Hopeless waste of time imho but some judge their value by in game accomplishments. We’d rather have fun and be silly in voice chat and still finish what we started. To each their own, but you really are taking it far too seriously. But don’t take my word for it, ask our 213+ members, all Mesmers

P.S. Whatever works for other Mesmers is fine, it’s their time in game. I just get so tired of all the focus on being uber, knowing every rotation, playing the game so rigidly they can’t be enjoying it. Our guild does lots of testing too. Just the other day we had a contest to see who could hit the highest damage (8 mil so far) when they dropped from the top of the guild hall. We play hide and seek, and whatever sillyness we can think of. We help others, in and out of the guild master their characters, will drop what we are doing and go to help a guildy. We’re Mesmers, we ’re not normal And we like it that way

I am hoping for a power dps build that does not rely so heavily on shatter or phantasms. I am preparing to be disappointed

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

P.S. Whatever works for other Mesmers is fine, it’s their time in game. I just get so tired of all the focus on being uber, knowing every rotation, playing the game so rigidly they can’t be enjoying it. Our guild does lots of testing too. Just the other day we had a contest to see who could hit the highest damage (8 mil so far) when they dropped from the top of the guild hall. We play hide and seek, and whatever sillyness we can think of. We help others, in and out of the guild master their characters, will drop what we are doing and go to help a guildy. We’re Mesmers, we ’re not normal And we like it that way

That’s all fine, feel free to play how you want, but don’t get surprised and offended when you get laughed at for jumping into a conversation about actual mechanics with “oh don’t be so serious about being good, just have fun being bad”.

All I want is the dps to be fairly comparable to other classes. This alone would make the trait line incredibly useful in a variety of circumstances. IMO, It doesn’t even need to outperform chrono (the next elite in each expansion doesn’t need to always outperform the old one in all circumstances. This would just lead to horrible build variety and power creep). All I want is the Option to do higher aoe dps. Perhaps it won’t be meta in raids. However, it would be nice to take a dps build into something more laid back like fractals without knowing that the other players are probably upset or laughing at you.

OriOri.8724:

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I was honestly too busy dodging all of the AoEs and defending her to see any hex she was casting

Xstein.2187:

All I want is the dps to be fairly comparable to other classes. This alone would make the trait line incredibly useful in a variety of circumstances. IMO, It doesn’t even need to outperform chrono (the next elite in each expansion doesn’t need to always outperform the old one in all circumstances. This would just lead to horrible build variety and power creep). All I want is the Option to do higher aoe dps. Perhaps it won’t be meta in raids. However, it would be nice to take a dps build into something more laid back like fractals without knowing that the other players are probably upset or laughing at you.

In regards to dps even hot mobs outperform chrono. The imporrand thing is that its not another support spec.

Fay.2357:

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

P.S. Whatever works for other Mesmers is fine, it’s their time in game. I just get so tired of all the focus on being uber, knowing every rotation, playing the game so rigidly they can’t be enjoying it. Our guild does lots of testing too. Just the other day we had a contest to see who could hit the highest damage (8 mil so far) when they dropped from the top of the guild hall. We play hide and seek, and whatever sillyness we can think of. We help others, in and out of the guild master their characters, will drop what we are doing and go to help a guildy. We’re Mesmers, we ’re not normal And we like it that way

That’s all fine, feel free to play how you want, but don’t get surprised and offended when you get laughed at for jumping into a conversation about actual mechanics with “oh don’t be so serious about being good, just have fun being bad”.

ROFLMAO…

Levetty.1279:

OriOri.8724:

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I was honestly too busy dodging all of the AoEs and defending her to see any hex she was casting

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It’s called fragility, named after the GW1 Mesmer skill that did the same thing. It causes damage every time the foe gains or loses a condition.

Oh that, I thought you guys were talking about something else that was unique to the final boss fight. Because I certainly didn’t notice anything new in that fight

Cyninja.2954:

That paired with our very disadvantageous class mechanic (relying on temporary summons to do damage) and our current position in the damage table (deadbeat last, by a mile, no actually by a galaxy) makes me not all to hopeful that within the scope of some rework we might become viable (raid or fractal damage wise).

Condi mesmer is doing 25k dps, that’s a lot closer to top tier dps than what you are describining

RabbitUp.8294:

Cyninja.2954:

That paired with our very disadvantageous class mechanic (relying on temporary summons to do damage) and our current position in the damage table (deadbeat last, by a mile, no actually by a galaxy) makes me not all to hopeful that within the scope of some rework we might become viable (raid or fractal damage wise).

Condi mesmer is doing 25k dps, that’s a lot closer to top tier dps than what you are describining

It’s all single target though and, it’s not like with Necroes who can at least Epi to spread condis for decent AoE.

Catastro.8410:

RabbitUp.8294:

Cyninja.2954:

That paired with our very disadvantageous class mechanic (relying on temporary summons to do damage) and our current position in the damage table (deadbeat last, by a mile, no actually by a galaxy) makes me not all to hopeful that within the scope of some rework we might become viable (raid or fractal damage wise).

Condi mesmer is doing 25k dps, that’s a lot closer to top tier dps than what you are describining

It’s all single target though and, it’s not like with Necroes who can at least Epi to spread condis for decent AoE.

To add to that they have a much higher ramp up time than similar dps builds while also having the disadvantage that all those phantasms are tied to 1 enemy. This isn’t an issue for benchmarks or single target bosses but becomes a massive issue when they disappear or you face multiple bosses or have to do damage to a secondary target too.

The only advantage condition Mesmer has is that because most of your damage is done by phantasms you lose less damage when having to deal with excessive mechanics like at Matthias.

RabbitUp.8294:

Cyninja.2954:

That paired with our very disadvantageous class mechanic (relying on temporary summons to do damage) and our current position in the damage table (deadbeat last, by a mile, no actually by a galaxy) makes me not all to hopeful that within the scope of some rework we might become viable (raid or fractal damage wise).

Condi mesmer is doing 25k dps, that’s a lot closer to top tier dps than what you are describining

http://qtfy.eu/benchmarks/

Top tier dps: 33.8-36.2k small hitbox target (let’s not look at large since that would make you look even sillier).

Mesmer dps: 25.8k (against a select few bosses)

25.8/33.8 = 76.33 -> 23.67% less damage
25.8/36.2 = 71.27 -> 28.73% less damage

We do over 1 quarter less damage under IDEAL circumstances and against a very small amount of bosses. In what world is this close? No seriously, and I haven’t even compared to large hitboxes since that would actually make me cry.

Not counting the fact that we give up almost all group utility, have a terrible rampup time and could basically be replaced by a ton of better dps classes.

FYI 10% is a huge difference in a competative enviroment, 25%+ is like bringing a knife to a submachine gun fight. It’s NOT close.

Are you guys ready for a condi mes elite spec reveal in august 1st? Im certainly not ;-; (fml)

Cyninja.2954:

RabbitUp.8294:

Cyninja.2954:

That paired with our very disadvantageous class mechanic (relying on temporary summons to do damage) and our current position in the damage table (deadbeat last, by a mile, no actually by a galaxy) makes me not all to hopeful that within the scope of some rework we might become viable (raid or fractal damage wise).

Condi mesmer is doing 25k dps, that’s a lot closer to top tier dps than what you are describining

So, you are comparing it to literally
http://qtfy.eu/benchmarks/

Top tier dps: 33.8-36.2k small hitbox target (let’s not look at large since that would make you look even sillier).

Mesmer dps: 25.8k (against a select few bosses)

25.8/33.8 = 76.33 -> 23.67% less damage
25.8/36.2 = 71.27 -> 28.73% less damage

We do over 1 quarter less damage under IDEAL circumstances and against a very small amount of bosses. In what world is this close? No seriously, and I haven’t even compared to large hitboxes since that would actually make me cry.

Not counting the fact that we give up almost all group utility, have a terrible rampup time and could basically be replaced by a ton of better dps classes.

FYI 10% is a huge difference in a competative enviroment, 25%+ is like bringing a knife to a submachine gun fight. It’s NOT close.

Now look at dragonhunter’s 29.3k. That’s with an absolutely selfish dps-focused spec with zero utility.

Mesmer hasn’t even got its dps spec yet and it will always have the utility of portal.

I never said mesmer is doing competitive dps, I said it’s close enough that a dps spec can push it to top tier dps. The post I quoted said it was galaxy aparts from top, doing half the damage, which is absolutely false, because they were looking at chrono support dps.

RabbitUp.8294:

Cyninja.2954:

RabbitUp.8294:

Cyninja.2954:

That paired with our very disadvantageous class mechanic (relying on temporary summons to do damage) and our current position in the damage table (deadbeat last, by a mile, no actually by a galaxy) makes me not all to hopeful that within the scope of some rework we might become viable (raid or fractal damage wise).

Condi mesmer is doing 25k dps, that’s a lot closer to top tier dps than what you are describining

So, you are comparing it to literally
http://qtfy.eu/benchmarks/

Top tier dps: 33.8-36.2k small hitbox target (let’s not look at large since that would make you look even sillier).

Mesmer dps: 25.8k (against a select few bosses)

25.8/33.8 = 76.33 -> 23.67% less damage
25.8/36.2 = 71.27 -> 28.73% less damage

We do over 1 quarter less damage under IDEAL circumstances and against a very small amount of bosses. In what world is this close? No seriously, and I haven’t even compared to large hitboxes since that would actually make me cry.

Not counting the fact that we give up almost all group utility, have a terrible rampup time and could basically be replaced by a ton of better dps classes.

FYI 10% is a huge difference in a competative enviroment, 25%+ is like bringing a knife to a submachine gun fight. It’s NOT close.

Now look at dragonhunter’s 29.3k. That’s with an absolutely selfish dps-focused spec with zero utility.

Mesmer hasn’t even got its dps spec yet and it will always have the utility of portal.

I never said mesmer is doing competitive dps, I said it’s close enough that a dps spec can push it to top tier dps. The post I quoted said it was galaxy aparts from top, doing half the damage, which is absolutely false, because they were looking at chrono support dps.

But it doesn’t bring 0 utility, Test of Faith doesn’t do a lot for the build and is generally recommended to be switched for another utility where needed, most commonly retreat or stand your ground. There’s a number of fights where having stab and/or aegis at the right time means higher group damage as you can ignore a mechanic that you would otherwise have to dodge or move away from a damage position for.

You also completely ignored what Cyninja and other have said about how condi Mesmer has a much higher ramp up time taking up to 1 minute to get to the DPS written down while DH spikes DPS then settles down to the written amount.

RabbitUp.8294:

Cyninja.2954:

RabbitUp.8294:

Cyninja.2954:

That paired with our very disadvantageous class mechanic (relying on temporary summons to do damage) and our current position in the damage table (deadbeat last, by a mile, no actually by a galaxy) makes me not all to hopeful that within the scope of some rework we might become viable (raid or fractal damage wise).

Condi mesmer is doing 25k dps, that’s a lot closer to top tier dps than what you are describining

So, you are comparing it to literally
http://qtfy.eu/benchmarks/

Top tier dps: 33.8-36.2k small hitbox target (let’s not look at large since that would make you look even sillier).

Mesmer dps: 25.8k (against a select few bosses)

25.8/33.8 = 76.33 -> 23.67% less damage
25.8/36.2 = 71.27 -> 28.73% less damage

We do over 1 quarter less damage under IDEAL circumstances and against a very small amount of bosses. In what world is this close? No seriously, and I haven’t even compared to large hitboxes since that would actually make me cry.

Not counting the fact that we give up almost all group utility, have a terrible rampup time and could basically be replaced by a ton of better dps classes.

FYI 10% is a huge difference in a competative enviroment, 25%+ is like bringing a knife to a submachine gun fight. It’s NOT close.

Now look at dragonhunter’s 29.3k. That’s with an absolutely selfish dps-focused spec with zero utility.

Mesmer hasn’t even got its dps spec yet and it will always have the utility of portal.

I never said mesmer is doing competitive dps, I said it’s close enough that a dps spec can push it to top tier dps. The post I quoted said it was galaxy aparts from top, doing half the damage, which is absolutely false, because they were looking at chrono support dps.

So your respons to my argument that mesmer has the most terrible dps ingame is:“Another class is less viable and we don’t even have a dps spec yet.” How is that an argument?

Does Dragonhunter have the 4th highest large target dps with a kittened simple rotation? Yes.
Did I say mesmer are unviable in the current meta? No.
Did I say every other class is viable? No.
Did I say mesmer will remain unviable for ever? I voiced concern in my faith that arenanet is able to address our dps problems but never stated that it’s impossible, so no.
Giving up chronomancer is giving up 50% of our utility is it not? No alacrity, no shield for Tides of Time.

As far as damage difference, more than 25% difference IS galaxies. Think of it this way:
You can complete every boss encounter with literally every dps class ingame, even not toptier ones. Doing so with mesmer dps is close to impossible on some boss fights. That’s galaxies, period.

Look this is simple, our dps is trash beyond compare. We are still viable due to other factors. I’ve never said anything else. Now stop arguing that the expansion is going to fix anything and argue based on what the CURRENT balance situation is. At the same time there is enough peoplel left and right who scream for mesmer nerfs because they feel jelly that we excell at our one useful role ingame atm.

RabbitUp.8294:

I never said mesmer is doing competitive dps, I said it’s close enough that a dps spec can push it to top tier dps. The post I quoted said it was galaxy aparts from top, doing half the damage, which is absolutely false, because they were looking at chrono support dps.

You excatly said:

RabbitUp.8294:

Condi mesmer is doing 25k dps, that’s a lot closer to top tier dps than what you are describining

Now if your wording was poor, fine then I accept that in the heat of the moment you might have been unclear. Given your statement though I think you get how people might have been confused what you ment. Maybe you should have phrased it as:

“Condi mesmer is doing 25k dps, that’s better than having no dps spec but leaves us far behind top tier dps classes. Luckily we are excell at support.”

Cyninja.2954:

Does Dragonhunter have the 4th highest large target dps with a kittened simple rotation? Yes.

It doesn’t. The benchamark assumes 100% Unscathed Contenter uptime, which is impossible.

Giving up chronomancer is giving up 50% of our utility is it not? No alacrity, no shield for Tides of Time.

Of course it means that. And it should be the case. No dps spec brings support-tier utility. Ranger might bring 1 spirit or Condi Berzerker 1 banner, you couldn’t possibly think a dps mesmer would have alacrity-tier utility.

Now stop arguing that the expansion is going to fix anything and argue based on what the CURRENT balance situation is.

The title is “Chrono dps and expac” and you don’t want us to talk about the expac?

You excatly said:

Condi mesmer is doing 25k dps, that’s a lot closer to top tier dps than what you are describining

Yeah, closer than you are describing (galaxies apart), not close in general. I.E. the gap can be easily bridged.

RabbitUp.8294:

Cyninja.2954:

Does Dragonhunter have the 4th highest large target dps with a kittened simple rotation? Yes.

It doesn’t. The benchamark assumes 100% Unscathed Contenter uptime, which is impossible.

Not impossible, just hard. Actually not that hard since you don’t have a hard rotation to worry about.

RabbitUp.8294:

Cyninja.2954:

Giving up chronomancer is giving up 50% of our utility is it not? No alacrity, no shield for Tides of Time.

Of course it means that. And it should be the case. No dps spec brings support-tier utility. Ranger might bring 1 spirit or Condi Berzerker 1 banner, you couldn’t possibly think a dps mesmer would have alacrity-tier utility.

You are assuming we get to bring any utility in our dps spec. The current one doesn’t allow for that, what makes you think the future one does?

RabbitUp.8294:

Cyninja.2954:

Giving up chronomancer is giving up 50% of our utility is it not? No alacrity, no shield for Tides of Time.

The title is “Chrono dps and expac” and you don’t want us to talk about the expac?

No, I’m saying don’t color the current situation in a different light than it is. Fact is, you can’t know what the expansion brings thus assuming the dps problem gets fixed is just that, an assumption.

On the otherhand we have close to 5 years of experience that show that arenanet were so far incapable to provide mesmer with a proper dps spec.

RabbitUp.8294:

Yeah, closer than you are describing (galaxies apart), not close in general. I.E. the gap can be easily bridged.

The math says differently. The past experience from mesmer balance patches says differently. Our clunky class mechanic says differently.

RabbitUp.8294:

Cyninja.2954:

RabbitUp.8294:

Cyninja.2954:

That paired with our very disadvantageous class mechanic (relying on temporary summons to do damage) and our current position in the damage table (deadbeat last, by a mile, no actually by a galaxy) makes me not all to hopeful that within the scope of some rework we might become viable (raid or fractal damage wise).

Condi mesmer is doing 25k dps, that’s a lot closer to top tier dps than what you are describining

So, you are comparing it to literally
http://qtfy.eu/benchmarks/

Top tier dps: 33.8-36.2k small hitbox target (let’s not look at large since that would make you look even sillier).

Mesmer dps: 25.8k (against a select few bosses)

25.8/33.8 = 76.33 -> 23.67% less damage
25.8/36.2 = 71.27 -> 28.73% less damage

We do over 1 quarter less damage under IDEAL circumstances and against a very small amount of bosses. In what world is this close? No seriously, and I haven’t even compared to large hitboxes since that would actually make me cry.

Not counting the fact that we give up almost all group utility, have a terrible rampup time and could basically be replaced by a ton of better dps classes.

FYI 10% is a huge difference in a competative enviroment, 25%+ is like bringing a knife to a submachine gun fight. It’s NOT close.

Now look at dragonhunter’s 29.3k. That’s with an absolutely selfish dps-focused spec with zero utility.

Mesmer hasn’t even got its dps spec yet and it will always have the utility of portal.

I never said mesmer is doing competitive dps, I said it’s close enough that a dps spec can push it to top tier dps. The post I quoted said it was galaxy aparts from top, doing half the damage, which is absolutely false, because they were looking at chrono support dps.

Portal is not that useful inside of fights though, so I don’t know why you thought it was at all relevant.

Cyninja.2954:

RabbitUp.8294:

Cyninja.2954:

Does Dragonhunter have the 4th highest large target dps with a kittened simple rotation? Yes.

It doesn’t. The benchamark assumes 100% Unscathed Contenter uptime, which is impossible.

Not impossible, just hard. Actually not that hard since you don’t have a hard rotation to worry about.

No, it’s impossible. Boss auras in raids pop aegis.

You are assuming we get to bring any utility in our dps spec. The current one doesn’t allow for that, what makes you think the future one does?

You are putting words in my mouth. If it brings no utility, then welcome to the world of Necro, DD, DH, Tempest.

The math says differently. The past experience from mesmer balance patches says differently. Our clunky class mechanic says differently.

Leaks say differently.

Basically for mesmer to become a strong DPSer within the meta, the next elite spec needs to have a lot of good damage modifiers and/or better ways to deal damage than current mesmer. It needs to reach somewhere between 25-35k dps to be competitive (right now its at like 14k?)

The other important issue is Chronomancer. This spec is currently the end-all-and-be-all of quickness/alacrity which is essential to the meta. For mesmers to get a DPS role, someone needs to replace chrono (or else you just run multiple mesmers, in which case is it worth losing an ele?). Someone has to run quickness-share. I’m hoping another class gets quickness-share so that mesmers have the freedom to run the new spec instead of being stuck on chrono.

So if this spec is a DPS spec, it better be hitting close to or above 30k DPS consistently in a variety of situations. Otherwise it wouldn’t even compare to current dps specs, so it would never be taken.

RabbitUp.8294:

Cyninja.2954:

RabbitUp.8294:

Cyninja.2954:

Does Dragonhunter have the 4th highest large target dps with a kittened simple rotation? Yes.

It doesn’t. The benchamark assumes 100% Unscathed Contenter uptime, which is impossible.

Not impossible, just hard. Actually not that hard since you don’t have a hard rotation to worry about.

No, it’s impossible. Boss auras in raids pop aegis.

You are assuming we get to bring any utility in our dps spec. The current one doesn’t allow for that, what makes you think the future one does?

You are putting words in my mouth. If it brings no utility, then welcome to the world of Necro, DD, DH, Tempest.

The math says differently. The past experience from mesmer balance patches says differently. Our clunky class mechanic says differently.

Leaks say differently.

Still not seeing it. Guess we’ll have to wait and see how our class faires after the first rebalance patches which I’m 100% sure will come in case we even are at in competative state.

OriOri.8724:

So if this spec is a DPS spec, it better be hitting close to or above 30k DPS consistently in a variety of situations. Otherwise it wouldn’t even compare to current dps specs, so it would never be taken.

I was told that someone hit 80k dps with mirage in the test server.