Guild Wars 2

Using Chronophantasma, Continium shift, deceptive evasion, Signet of Ether.

Does this mean you can:
Create 3 clones
use Continium shift
summon Phantasmal Beserker/duelist, use signet of Ether ; resummon Phantasmal Beserker/duelist
Shatter them, they will be still there and attack.

Go back in time. Shatter them again.
summon Phantasmal Beserker/duelist, use signet of Ether ; resummon Phantasmal Beserker/duelist
re-Shatter them and they will be still there and attack.

Is it not a bit too much?

It seems very strong but imho I need to see it in a PvP-situation to fully grasp how strong it is, thats were I think the balance need to be looked at. I see the potential for a very OP 1v1 build in a Phantasm Chronomancer….. scary indeed

Indeed, but I think we are forgetting our weapon swap cool down?

PU mesmer is bit too much even now. Its sad Anet support this dumb AI spam even more.

Dragon Ruler X.8512:

Indeed, but I think we are forgetting our weapon swap cool down?

Doesn’t the continuum split/shift also have an effect on weapon cooldown? The description says cooldowns, so it should be included, i guess. Or the devs said something about it i don’t know of?

Dionosio.5168:

Dragon Ruler X.8512:

Indeed, but I think we are forgetting our weapon swap cool down?

Doesn’t the continuum split/shift also have an effect on weapon cooldown? The description says cooldowns, so it should be included, i guess. Or the devs said something about it i don’t know of?

Indeed it does, but in that “second timeline” you must swap weapons to get to the second phantasm (the first one you summon will put you in combat). This means that if you try using the Signet of the Ether you would only be able to immediately re-activate that phantasm tied to your current weapon set. You would run into this same issue in the “regular timeline” too. At best you could reduce your weapon swap times by 2 seconds using “Warrior” Runes (unless Alacrity affects the weapon swap cooldown as well?).

But even so – you still run into the first weapon swap issue in either case since you’ll be considered in combat after the first strike (forcing the default 10 second swap cooldown).

Dragon Ruler X.8512:

Dionosio.5168:

Dragon Ruler X.8512:

Indeed, but I think we are forgetting our weapon swap cool down?

Doesn’t the continuum split/shift also have an effect on weapon cooldown? The description says cooldowns, so it should be included, i guess. Or the devs said something about it i don’t know of?

Indeed it does, but in that “second timeline” you must swap weapons to get to the second phantasm (the first one you summon will put you in combat). This means that if you try using the Signet of the Ether you would only be able to immediately re-activate that phantasm tied to your current weapon set. You would run into this same issue in the “regular timeline” too. At best you could reduce your weapon swap times by 2 seconds using “Warrior” Runes (unless Alacrity affects the weapon swap cooldown as well?).

But even so – you still run into the first weapon swap issue in either case since you’ll be considered in combat after the first strike (forcing the default 10 second swap cooldown).

Well, yea, but you can only have 3 illusions anyway, so i guess that that “berserker/duelist” he wrote was only to indicate that could be summoning one or the other based on with what weapon he begins the combo, not that he actually wants to summon 4 phantasms. Which means he only needs to swap weapon once in the regular timeline and once in the second timeline. Or maybe i misunderstood?

Perhaps I misunderstood – because that was what I was thinking he was trying for ^^;

It will also depend on how long you can be shifted & that foes don’t destroy your rift. I believe the skill & timing required would be pretty high.

Time is certainly a factor, but I get the feeling mesmers will hide their rifts by placing a portal at their hiding spot, running to edge of the fight, completing the portal and porting back to activate the split/shift and then porting back to the fight since ending the split/shift will then port you back to where you activated it.

That even isn’t needed. With Illusionary Persona becoming base line Continuum Split might very well work without any illusion. That means, you can just Shatter F5 and now you have 3? seconds time. That is enough at least for 2 phantasms and one either signet.

If you charge your foe and trigger F5 at max range, your foe may not even have the time to reach and kill the rift. Theoretically you can start casting the 1st phantasm and mid cast trigger f5, giving you some extra milliseconds, which could be a big deal imo.

You can do 12 phantasm attacks.

Summon clones > F5 > iSwordsman + iDuelist > Signet + iDuelist > F1 with trait to reset phantasms > F2 > Return and repeat. So you get 6 phantasm attacks and 2 shatters inside continuum split and then you can do it again afterwards. Probably too difficult to pull off in PvP though. Would be more of a PvE thing.

Dionosio.5168:

Dragon Ruler X.8512:

Dionosio.5168:

Dragon Ruler X.8512:

Indeed, but I think we are forgetting our weapon swap cool down?

Doesn’t the continuum split/shift also have an effect on weapon cooldown? The description says cooldowns, so it should be included, i guess. Or the devs said something about it i don’t know of?

Indeed it does, but in that "second timeline" you must swap weapons to get to the second phantasm (the first one you summon will put you in combat). This means that if you try using the Signet of the Ether you would only be able to immediately re-activate that phantasm tied to your current weapon set. You would run into this same issue in the "regular timeline" too. At best you could reduce your weapon swap times by 2 seconds using "Warrior" Runes (unless Alacrity affects the weapon swap cooldown as well?).

But even so - you still run into the first weapon swap issue in either case since you’ll be considered in combat after the first strike (forcing the default 10 second swap cooldown).

Well, yea, but you can only have 3 illusions anyway, so i guess that that "berserker/duelist" he wrote was only to indicate that could be summoning one or the other based on with what weapon he begins the combo, not that he actually wants to summon 4 phantasms. Which means he only needs to swap weapon once in the regular timeline and once in the second timeline. Or maybe i misunderstood?

No weapon swaps necessary. The signet recharges the phantasm skill once as usual, and again after it itself is recharged from going back in time, which also resets cool downs on the phantasm skills. Add in the trait which respawns phantasms after the first time they are shattered and you get 2x2x2=8, without needing to swap weapons.

"/" = or, not and.

"[Chronomancer] 8 Phantasms attack chain"
- continuum shift
- summon phantasm (1)
- recharge phantasm skills with signet
- summon phantasm again (2)
- shatter
- phantasm 1 returns (3)
- phantasm 2 returns (4)
- back in time: shatter recharged, phantasm recharged, signet recharged
- shatter
- summon phantasm (5)
- recharge phantasm skills with signet
- summon phantasm again (6)
- shatter
- phantasm 5 returns (7)
- phantasm 6 returns (8)
- shatter

8. It has to be "or."

You’re missing a few points.

Each weapon has 1 phantasm – therefore if you want 2 phantasms to be recharged when using the signet you must swap and have used 2 phantasms to begin with.

Since phantasm summoning requires a target and the phantasm instantly attacks the target when summoned you will be placed in combat after the first summon.

This makes it so if you switch for the second summon you go on weapon swap cooldown.

This means that you can re-use the phantasm on the weapon set you have active, but you must wait until the weapon swap cool down is done to re-use the other phantasm.

Continuum Split/Shift will send you back to the point where you hadn’t summoned either of the two phantasms and your weapon swap will be reset.

This effectively means you can repeat the above statement which resulted in 4 phantasms creating 8 in total. (including the time for weapon swapping)

Once considering Chronophantasma you would actually have 16 phantasms to shatter with.

But you dont have to wait for the cooldown to get three out, and that may be critical depending on the time you have before the continuum shift expires.

there is no need for weapon swap, using signet recharge the phantasm,

I meant berserker(or) Duellist, since they are the most powerfull dps phantasm.
Impact.2780 understood what i mean.
The time gap is only 2 sec to cast them. since Illusion Persona, is a base line with 3 clone you have minimum 4 second time until you’ll go back in time.

Seyiwaji.4082:

there is no need for weapon swap, using signet recharge the phantasm,

I meant berserker(or) Duellist, since they are the most powerfull dps phantasm.
Impact.2780 understood what i mean.
The time gasp is only 3 sec to cast them. since Illusion Persona, is a base line with 3 clone you have minimum 4 second time until you’ll go back in time.

Then indeed you would have 8 ^^;

Weapon swap would probably reset on continuum split return as well…

Seyiwaji.4082:

there is no need for weapon swap, using signet recharge the phantasm,

I meant berserker(or) Duellist, since they are the most powerfull dps phantasm.
Impact.2780 understood what i mean.
The time gasp is only 3 sec to cast them. since Illusion Persona, is a base line with 3 clone you have minimum 4 second time until you’ll go back in time.

This is assuming you dont have to defend or get interrupted either, though. All it takes is, say, a hammer warrior or zerker thief or something to suddenly revise your strategy.

Which is another way of saying, “Wow, this does look cool, but its complicated to pull the entire combo off and will probably be ‘interrupted’ a lot in pvp… and some pve.”

So I don’t think it will be overpowering at all. I think this will be the golden child combo chain if you can get it all off (unless no one notices you or thinks to go attack you or whatever LOL)

Now in pve, it will be much better.

About the change in Signet Blurred inscription. You are invulnerable, remove boon and have 20% cooldown decrease all 1 trait. Even now it is easy to chain 2 phantasm without being interrupted, you can use decoy, you can use mass Invisibility. There are Plenty of ways.

I don’t think a Chronomancer using a great sword need to be in close range to pull it off.
It may be hard to understand on Paper, but it is easily done. Even more if you get quickness from Sigil of rage something like that.

Easily explained:
You just need to cast 2 phantasm and shatter them after using f5.
I think every Mesmer can do this….. can’t they?

To back up what Morfedel said:

“Everyone has a plan ’til they get punched in the mouth”
-Mike Tyson

Marco Antonio de Dominis was tortured and murdered because of his explanation of the rainbow.
Cecco d’Ascoli was burnt alive for daring to suggest that men may live on the other side of the world.
Galileo – This great human thinker was imprisoned, threatened with torture, and forced to recant his beliefs the earh is Round.

So yes…. It takes time to accept things that are beyond once thinking.
Most of the genii were considered as crazy on their living time.

Seyiwaji.4082:

About the change in Signet Blurred inscription. You are invulnerable, remove boon and have 20% cooldown decrease all 1 trait. Even now it is easy to chain 2 phantasm without being interrupted, you can use decoy, you can use mass Invisibility. There are Plenty of ways.

I don’t think a Chronomancer using a great sword need to be in close range to pull it off.
It may be hard to understand on Paper, but it is easily done. Even more if you get quickness from Sigil of rage something like that.

Easily explained:
You just need to cast 2 phantasm and shatter them after using f5.
I think every Mesmer can do this….. can’t they?

First, none of this works if they interrupt your use of the signet heal. And they are saying they will make the reborn phantasms a little stupid so they don’t immediately start attacking on rebirth. Not only that but you cant summon phantasms without a target or if you are blinded.
Also remember that signet is the heal. And there is no way a Memser in PvP would give up their heal that early in combat. This would strickly be for PvE.

Second, blurred inscriptions works after the signet has finished being cast so again, they can just interrupt you. Thieves interrupt heals all the time.

Finally, we don’t use stealth just for summoning phantasms. This would be considered a huge waste of cooldowns to kill 1 person.

You can easily swap weapons before the first Phantasm hits to not have weapon swap CD… I feel a lot of the posters here either don’t play Mesmer or don’t try new things enough.

2 Things,

1. Chronophantasma shatters the butterfly effect on the phantasm, it doesn’t destroy and resummon the phantasm so it liekly doesn’t reset its attack cooldown after a shatter.

2. This is a ridiculous amount of buttons to press, so in a scenario involving more than one opponent, if one focuses the mesmer they will be unlikely to get such a combo off in the first place, although they could contiuum shift and reset to get out, but thats assuming that they were healty and able before they used f5.

nearlight.3064:

1. Chronophantasma shatters the butterfly effect on the phantasm, it doesn’t destroy and resummon the phantasm so it liekly doesn’t reset its attack cooldown after a shatter.

this is precisely the good thing.

nearlight.3064:

2. This is a ridiculous amount of buttons to press.

Seriously…..

May be it is too far thinking for some people, and i don’t want to start a fight here.
i will not post here anymore.
But I am not sad on the contrary, I am quite happy that it doesn’t bother people.

Seyiwaji.4082:

nearlight.3064:

1. Chronophantasma shatters the butterfly effect on the phantasm, it doesn’t destroy and resummon the phantasm so it liekly doesn’t reset its attack cooldown after a shatter.

this is precisely the good thing.

I dont see how it is good. They wont attack fast enough to get off the second attack. Not to mention that trait only works if they are shattered. If they are destroyed they wont re-summon.

Realistically at best you will get off two round of phantasm attacks or 4 shatters but that puts so many things on cooldown its almost not worth it.

this is how far people can see….
Did you now reach my level of sight or do you still need 2 more months to understand.

All I see is you being consistently proven wrong… Oh, and you’re still wrong! Have a nice day.

if i’m not wrong, aren’t phantasms dazed for 1 second when chronophantasma activates?

Are we talking PvE or PvP efficiency? Phantasms have a 1s cast time, assuming you have the full duration of CS (6s, not 4s or 3s with no clones as people have been putting it), you can theoretically do the shatters you expect.

Spawn 2 Phants → SotE → Spawn 1 Phant | 4 seconds have passed at this point | → F1 → Chronophantasma → F2 | At this point, 4.5 seconds have passed and your opponent still has not reacted to you | → 1.5s left of CS (this area is used whenever you make a mistake or don’t properly queue an ability).

Then you can start the chain from the beginning, meaning you have spent 10 seconds of shattering on your opponent without them reacting with 8s of casting and 1s of shatters (each shatter has a 0.25s global ICD before you can activate another).

Disregarding Phantasm damage, that still isn’t practical unless you’re running a hybrid condi shatter build. Plus you’re setting yourself up to get interrupted, damaged, killed, or basically anything. If any of your Phants get cleaved, the DPS is significantly lowered.

If you’re going for Mind Wracks, it’s more efficient to just single illusion MW twice since you don’t have to worry about prep or illusions being cleaved (dodge over MW, CS ends, dodge over MW).

The only reason I see doing that long chain is if you’re testing “lolopdamagenerfnerf” against a Golem which isn’t going to react to you (aka PvE). If any of the Illusions dies on the way to the Wrack while already being casted, your damage is going to drop lower than doing a single illusion MW.

Lots of casting for little to no return. Even if you wait for the Phants to do their attack animation (which you can’t since you’re on a time budget in CS), it only becomes super high DPS on paper and not actually practical.

Unless, of course, your opponent plays with a handicap, like one hand or 500ms+ latency. Not that a one handed opponent couldn’t whup another player, but if they were stubborn and didn’t decide to adjust the hotkeys and change their setup to accommodate it, they’re probably not going to be able to target you, position properly, and avoid the damage (especially since Duelists and Swordsman will be Wracking at separate times).

Oh right, Duelists and Swordsman will be Wracking at separate times meaning this isn’t a nuke (did I mention you’re also casting for 8s?)

Did you even purchase Hot?
do you even play Mesmer?
Do you even read my first post?
Where kitten is this weapon switch coming from?

Gs/S.Shield
2 or 3 illusions f5
Spawn 2 phantasm shattering, Spawn 2 phantasm shattering.

Ok let’s wait 2 more months….. i am off .

Seyiwaji.4082:

Did you even purchase Hot?
do you even play Mesmer?
Do you even read my first post?
Where kitten is this weapon switch coming from?

Gs/S.Shield
2 or 3 illusions f5
Spawn 2 phantasm shattering, Spawn 2 phantasm shattering.

Ok let’s wait 2 more months….. i am off .

Did you even read my breakdown of how this doesn’t actually work?

Ok let’s wait 2 more minutes…. i am off. (and then the next troll post arrives)

mr. 2 month break rushing sir.. what you mentioned will work, it’s just not “overpowered” or “too much” as you mention cause phantasms are dazed for 1 second after the chronophantasma effect takes place, while your getting phantasms quickly and while they’r also attacking quickly.. its a burst with continuum split and that’s about all you have for losing out on a dps trait line now that you’re a chronomancer.

i didnt read the whole thread but did you even tried it in pvp?

with ip only CS is 1.5 sec with skill activation so only 1 skill with less than 0.5 sec is enable . more than that you wont be able to complete the chain activation of your skill

with 3 clones up its 6 sec CS time. which enable you if you fast to create 2 phantasm and use signet skill and rarely another phantasm and shatter . but than CS activated

but consider in team fight why you wanna use your heal even when it will be recharge?
aoe cleave may kill your phantasms

for now on paper there are many things you can do with the idea but on practice its hard.

for now i use it for time warp and other utilities my team needs but not for burst as i want to save CS for the escape

Yeah, I think somebody earlier summarized it extremely well with the mike tyson quote:

Everyone has a plan ’til they get punched in the mouth.

I just tested :
- 3 clones
- F5
- Time warp
- Phant 1
- Signet
- Phant 1 bis
- Swap
- Phant 2
- Return in time.

You don’t have the time to do any shatter with 3 phant to spawn. Glad to TW i can have my 3 phant, witout Back In time come too soon for the 3rd phant.
At least it reset their CD…

In PVE, yeah, could be efficient. In PvP perspective I would laught.

Try with only 2 phant :
You can shatter… Once before back in time.

Truely, I would play it in pve. In pvp I don’t hope my phant staying that long.

I can’t test it since I don’t have the beta, but numerically you should be able to do it. The entire rotation is kitten , meaning you have 1.5s of backup time for any mistakes. Just make sure you queue up spells properly and try to always be casting (e.g after weapon swapping, press the phant button asap, don’t wait until it appears).

Again tested.
It’s easier to make the OS combo with the standard shatter than to chain phant. Chain which have a cast time longer than the combo for same result… only if you test against a golem. You won’t have the same result when you face something else.

Well yeah, I did the breakdown above and you’re cutting it close (and also just basically casting for 8s in a 10s timeframe).

why you want phantasm skills recharge with OS. just take the trait so when you shatter they reappear

to use time warp just to do that ???!!!

messiah.1908:

why you want phantasm skills recharge with OS. just take the trait so when you shatter they reappear

to use time warp just to do that ???!!!

Again, I didn’t want to be the guy to say it, but if your goal is to kill someone, there’s certainly easier ways to do it -_-u.

Honestly, if your definition of “chronomancer OP” is casting your way through eight phantasm summons (plus fluff) (pvp, don’t even bother talking pve) then you’re having a laugh.

OS for One shot : GS 4/ GS 2 /Evade /F1 and a corpse (if it was a full zerk without def stuff)

Phant reappear, but you can’t shatter in the F5 frame. The animation for phant take too long.
TW is for fast casting phant. With, or without you run out of time too soon. But with you less easily interruptable I think… If the ennemy don’t know what to do.

what the orignal poster thought was good.. it’s just not feasible and by no way is it too much or overpowered :P

So new try for chonophantasma.
On heavy golem it’s fun.

2 clone
F5
TW
GS 4
Signet
GS4
Back in time
F1
… (phant attack again 1 sec after)
F1
Heavy golem dead.

Yay.

In game…
Not so easy with invul/evade/block fram on each class. And phant die too fast even with Dom/Ins/chrono.
It’s maybe a good phantasm build? But you really need to not be in fight and stike from far away.

Dack Saris.2418:

So new try for chonophantasma.
On heavy golem it’s fun.

2 clone
F5
TW
GS 4
Signet
GS4
Back in time
F1
… (phant attack again 1 sec after)
F1
Heavy golem dead.

Yay.

In game…
Not so easy with invul/evade/block fram on each class. And phant die too fast even with Dom/Ins/chrono.
It’s maybe a good phantasm build? But you really need to not be in fight and stike from far away.

Have you tired it coming from stealth using PU and touch, how will that work?

Same, you can kill within 5 sec… if your target doesn’t evade/block/invul… as a standard shatter with much effort.

The only “good” thing, it’s the refresh for comp.

Does the Phantasm re-summoned by Chronophantasma have reset attack timers?

Could use Shatter to reset the attack timers on Phantasm faster then they could attack normally. On Duelists this would be massive once Duelist Discipline is fixed. But all damage Phantasms would benefit from it.

Plus you could get 13 Shatters in (abusing F5 and Signet of Illusions/Ether). Abuse the baseline Illusionary Persona, Chronophantasma and Illusionary Reversion to make each Shatter a 3 man shatter. That would be 39 stacks of Torment (prenerf Maim would be 78 stacks lol) plus 48 stacks of Confusion from Shatters alone.

Strictly PvE only but it does counter the biggest issues of Mesmers in PvE by not needing Phantasms to stay alive.

Maxzero.4032:

Does the Phantasm re-summoned by Chronophantasma have reset attack timers?

Could use Shatter to reset the attack timers on Phantasm faster then they could attack normally. On Duelists this would be massive once Duelist Discipline is fixed. But all damage Phantasms would benefit from it.

Plus you could get 13 Shatters in (abusing F5 and Signet of Illusions/Ether). Abuse the baseline Illusionary Persona, Chronophantasma and Illusionary Reversion to make each Shatter a 3 man shatter. That would be 39 stacks of Torment (prenerf Maim would be 78 stacks lol) plus 48 stacks of Confusion from Shatters alone.

Strictly PvE only but it does counter the biggest issues of Mesmers in PvE by not needing Phantasms to stay alive.

They’re dazed for 1s after CP, so… unless you or a Tempest brings an AoE stunbreak, they’re not gonna attack.

Esplen.3940:

Maxzero.4032:

Does the Phantasm re-summoned by Chronophantasma have reset attack timers?

Could use Shatter to reset the attack timers on Phantasm faster then they could attack normally. On Duelists this would be massive once Duelist Discipline is fixed. But all damage Phantasms would benefit from it.

Plus you could get 13 Shatters in (abusing F5 and Signet of Illusions/Ether). Abuse the baseline Illusionary Persona, Chronophantasma and Illusionary Reversion to make each Shatter a 3 man shatter. That would be 39 stacks of Torment (prenerf Maim would be 78 stacks lol) plus 48 stacks of Confusion from Shatters alone.

Strictly PvE only but it does counter the biggest issues of Mesmers in PvE by not needing Phantasms to stay alive.

They’re dazed for 1s after CP, so… unless you or a Tempest brings an AoE stunbreak, they’re not gonna attack.

Then wait one second. The delay between damage Phantasm attacks is about 6 seconds. Still come out ahead.