Guild Wars 2

Hi Guys, wanted to try raid as a chronomancer. Any suggestion on builds?

Too lazy to format…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Raids-and-Chrono-stats/first

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3uv1vz/good_build_for_chronomancer_in_raids/

http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/25108491-dnt-dps-mesmer-build-for-raids

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3vbygn/ptgna_redshifts_high_alacrity_and_permanent/

stop using runes of force/accuracy they don’t affect illusions

Lumpy.8760:

stop using runes of force/accuracy they don’t affect illusions

Any suggestions to replace force for raid environment.

Mak.2657:

Lumpy.8760:

stop using runes of force/accuracy they don’t affect illusions

Any suggestions to replace force for raid environment.

fire and air

Lumpy.8760:

Mak.2657:

Lumpy.8760:

stop using runes of force/accuracy they don’t affect illusions

Any suggestions to replace force for raid environment.

fire and air

worst advice ever … air is better than accuracy when you have less than 9000 dps, and fire is even worse. Mesmer damage in raids does not come from phantasms, it comes from your attacks, your wells, your shatter and everything else is passive damage from alacrity and quickness.

Force and accuracy are the best sigils on ALL dps professions. Only healers go for different sigils.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAs+dncfC9fitfCmfCUrhFVjiMAKgirOZn2qFtLSjsD-TBCBABjq+zZKBxS5BAnEg80LUmSs+3fIgHAApACcMA-e

This is you endgoal you want to aim for for raids. If you got questions, go ahead, I’ll check this thread to answer you

greez
- Madame Le Blanc

Lumpy.8760:

Mak.2657:

Lumpy.8760:

stop using runes of force/accuracy they don’t affect illusions

Any suggestions to replace force for raid environment.

fire and air

Wut? It’s not like fire/air affect illusions either >_>

Force/air is the general accepted DPS set unless you really need more crit chance. Raid settings with banner of D/Spotter and maybe food means accuracy is usually a waste. Depends on your group comp though. That is DPS though, not necessarily a team buffer or healer (shouldn’t be as a mesmer though).

For the runes/sigils people are recommending, keep in mind that the perma raid quickness builds get EXPENSIVE. Whether it’s 600 crystalline ore or 6 rune of chronomancer + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Concentration or boon duration armor/tank, everyone has their own recommendations so check all the guides as see what works best for you and your group.

Also need a herald and nothing but a herald in your subgroup at all times for that +50% boon duration and the RNG quickness to allies.

Team Comp, Team Comp, Team Comp

I cannot stress that enough when it comes to putting together a build for an toon going into a raid. A build like what Xyonon posted would be a good baseline in a vacuum setting where I’m only concerned about my Mesmer regardless of my team comp.

However, Xyonon’s build wouldn’t work for me in my regular Raid group. Namely, I would be well over 100% in critical strike chance if I changed nothing. In which case I might opt for something like Air Sigil. Pricing is also something that may be a make-break deal for some players.

There’s a reddit post that goes over a few build options with small descriptions of each and their uses.

Xyonon.3987:

Lumpy.8760:

Mak.2657:

Lumpy.8760:

stop using runes of force/accuracy they don’t affect illusions

Any suggestions to replace force for raid environment.

fire and air

worst advice ever … air is better than accuracy when you have less than 9000 dps, and fire is even worse. Mesmer damage in raids does not come from phantasms, it comes from your attacks, your wells, your shatter and everything else is passive damage from alacrity and quickness.

Force and accuracy are the best sigils on ALL dps professions. Only healers go for different sigils.

---

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAs+dncfC9fitfCmfCUrhFVjiMAKgirOZn2qFtLSjsD-TBCBABjq+zZKBxS5BAnEg80LUmSs+3fIgHAApACcMA-e

This is you endgoal you want to aim for for raids. If you got questions, go ahead, I’ll check this thread to answer you

greez
- Madame Le Blanc

Presuming this is the case ( I have no clue if it is ), wouldn’t air and force be better on chronomancer because their personal damage ( non phantasm I mean ) is less than 9k? Either way, last I remember Nike was suggesting to run air force so IDK.

Air has been stealth nerfed and the wiki is wrong atm. With 3000 power it deals about 1000 damage every (in practice) 4 sec wich is like 250 dps increase, wich is laughtable.

@TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275

I then calculated the accuracy sigils dps (in the beginning for other professions) and since Chronomancer itself average dps isn’t as low as it used to be, mainly because of calamity and F1 and the constant 9% damage modifier (illusions won’t die anymore), I’d say the sigils are about even, just that accuracy helps with reflection whereas air doesn’t help you. Same goes for aoe damage, since accuracy is for every attack and air only one target. For every other profession tough, air is a no go at the current state.

DNT made a terrible mistake by recommending air, but since they did it multiple times already I bet my 50 cent that they bought tons of air sigils and now they sell them. I mean comon, I can’t be the only one who noticed they increased in price from 3 to 7 gold … Accuracy probably was just too commonly used to be manipulated.

savacli.8172:

However, Xyonon’s build wouldn’t work for me in my regular Raid group. Namely, I would be well over 100% in critical strike chance if I changed nothing. In which case I might opt for something like Air Sigil. Pricing is also something that may be a make-break deal for some players.

67.81% crit chance in my build.

• 20% from fury
• 170 prec from banner are 8.09%
  Equals 96% crit chance. Now you either use oil to get to 100% or you swap the accessoires to zerk and hope for spotter to affect you. How would you get over 100% in any composition? o.O

Xyonon.3987:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAs+dncfC9fitfCmfCUrhFVjiMAKgirOZn2qFtLSjsD-TBCBABjq+zZKBxS5BAnEg80LUmSs+3fIgHAApACcMA-e

This is you endgoal you want to aim for for raids. If you got questions, go ahead, I’ll check this thread to answer you

With the way GW2 rounds cooldowns and durations there really should be no reason for 100% boon duration… Math says Bountiful Sharpening Stone, 5 Runes of Surging and a Platin Dubloon (99% boon duration buffed) is the stronger and cheaper setup for that build.

Xyonon.3987:

Air has been stealth nerfed and the wiki is wrong atm. With 3000 power it deals about 1000 damage every (in practice) 4 sec wich is like 250 dps increase, wich is laughtable.

@TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275

I then calculated the accuracy sigils dps (in the beginning for other professions) and since Chronomancer itself average dps isn’t as low as it used to be, mainly because of calamity and F1 and the constant 9% damage modifier (illusions won’t die anymore), I’d say the sigils are about even, just that accuracy helps with reflection whereas air doesn’t help you. Same goes for aoe damage, since accuracy is for every attack and air only one target. For every other profession tough, air is a no go at the current state.

DNT made a terrible mistake by recommending air, but since they did it multiple times already I bet my 50 cent that they bought tons of air sigils and now they sell them. I mean comon, I can’t be the only one who noticed they increased in price from 3 to 7 gold … Accuracy probably was just too commonly used to be manipulated.

---

savacli.8172:

However, Xyonon’s build wouldn’t work for me in my regular Raid group. Namely, I would be well over 100% in critical strike chance if I changed nothing. In which case I might opt for something like Air Sigil. Pricing is also something that may be a make-break deal for some players.

67.81% crit chance in my build.

• 20% from fury
• 170 prec from banner are 8.09%
  Equals 96% crit chance. Now you either use oil to get to 100% or you swap the accessoires to zerk and hope for spotter to affect you. How would you get over 100% in any composition? o.O

“mainly because of calamity and F1 and the constant 9% damage modifier”

Well of calamity isn’t taken most of the time.

“DNT made a terrible mistake by recommending air, but since they did it multiple times already I bet my 50 cent that they bought tons of air sigils and now they sell them. I mean comon, I can’t be the only one who noticed they increased in price from 3 to 7 gold … Accuracy probably was just too commonly used to be manipulated.”

Conspiracy theory confirmed lol.

Also, just another thing to note is air is better on revenant too because of fury being 100% more effective.

Xyonon.3987:

Lumpy.8760:

Mak.2657:

Lumpy.8760:

stop using runes of force/accuracy they don’t affect illusions

Any suggestions to replace force for raid environment.

fire and air

worst advice ever … air is better than accuracy when you have less than 9000 dps, and fire is even worse. Mesmer damage in raids does not come from phantasms, it comes from your attacks, your wells, your shatter and everything else is passive damage from alacrity and quickness.

Force and accuracy are the best sigils on ALL dps professions. Only healers go for different sigils.

---

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAs+dncfC9fitfCmfCUrhFVjiMAKgirOZn2qFtLSjsD-TBCBABjq+zZKBxS5BAnEg80LUmSs+3fIgHAApACcMA-e

This is you endgoal you want to aim for for raids. If you got questions, go ahead, I’ll check this thread to answer you

greez
- Madame Le Blanc

A couple of things with that build is that rune of the chronomancer>Rune of leadership And that SoI is great for spreading tons of quickness so I’d take that over well of calamity. In addition, focus is alright for the pull, but on the first boss this isn’t always needed so sword could be taken there if your not having trouble with seekers. That, and shield is alright for the quickness, but pistol is better for personal damage so it just depends. Shield can be decent on say the 3rd boss because people are more closely stacked than say the 2nd boss where people are normally more spread out. I’d say it’s largely preference for the second boss at least.

You don’t need soi at all, it just deals 0 damage and spreads a boon that is already there. With leadership and a rev, your party has 100% quickness uptime and since the shield’s quickness is the only one that affects all 10 peps in the party, is better to have more boon duration than to share your own quickness to 5 allies. So leadership is indeed better than chrono in raids, yet not in fractals or that other content noone talks about anymore … :P

Same goes for alacrity: You have 100% uptime already with 4 wells and just one avenger and if you take mimic over calamity, you extrend your CD of your F5 since you have to wait for mimic to get off cd for like 10 rl sec. Calamity can be cast so often between 2 F5 that this and the more often casted F5 and it’s benefits will surely outdamage a 3rd damage phantasm wich is shattered sometime anyway.

If you take illusions instead of duelling wich I highly recommend, mimic has no place in your utilities. Neither does soi because of the reasons above and this gives you the sexy 12sec cd well wich huge damage spikes and great defensive abilities for ads like at sabby or gorsy – calamity.

Xyonon.3987:

You don’t need soi at all, it just deals 0 damage and spreads a boon that is already there. With leadership and a rev, your party has 100% quickness uptime and since the shield’s quickness is the only one that affects all 10 peps in the party, is better to have more boon duration than to share your own quickness to 5 allies. So leadership is indeed better than chrono in raids, yet not in fractals or that other content noone talks about anymore … :P

Same goes for alacrity: You have 100% uptime already with 4 wells and just one avenger and if you take mimic over calamity, you extrend your CD of your F5 since you have to wait for mimic to get off cd for like 10 rl sec. Calamity can be cast so often between 2 F5 that this and the more often casted F5 and it’s benefits will surely outdamage a 3rd damage phantasm wich is shattered sometime anyway.

If you take illusions instead of duelling wich I highly recommend, mimic has no place in your utilities. Neither does soi because of the reasons above and this gives you the sexy 12sec cd well wich huge damage spikes and great defensive abilities for ads like at sabby or gorsy – calamity.

“With leadership and a rev, your party has 100% quickness uptime”

But a real fight isn’t a theory vacuum or something. Things get messed up, people don’t stand in wells, the boss moves, you mess up a rotation, you have to split to kill different adds, have to dodge, glide, etc. As such, I still stand with SoI which is great for boosting quickness and thus rune of the chonomancer ( budget option ) or sigil of concentration with scholar runes or just air sigils with scholar runes if you think you have enough quickness just adding in SoI.

“and since the shield’s quickness is the only one that affects all 10 peps in the party”

In theory yes. In a real fight? Absolutely not. More people will get hit on say sabetha than on say gorseval where hitting all 10 people is a little ridiculous.

EDIT: Your build get’s 58 seconds of quickness every 52 seconds presuming your subsquad hits every tides of time and quickness well along with staying inside TW 100% of the time and you use CS off CD not waiting for well of recall. Already I would recommend SoI because they aren’t all going to be stacked up in a neat little ball to hit your ToT but when you take into account the other stuff I said above I really don’t see why my modifications wouldn’t be better. Also, one more thing to note is, if you still think that amount of quickness is enough in a raid, using sigil of concentration with scholar runes would probably be better than your current setup.

Also one more thing I noticed you mentioned was the shield phantasm which I think this video already addressed pretty well: https://youtu.be/M0c55SlQ3kE?t=1877

EDIT: one more thing to note is if you run shield, signet heal becomes pretty good because otherwise your stuck with only 1 phantasm skill which makes it pain to keep up 3 phantasms and perma self alacrity.

In a real fight with my guild, everyone stays where they have to stay. They don’t just run around like scared chickens or stay whereever they want. :P This may be completly different with pugs so I totally agree with you that different mesmer builds and runes are optimal, according to your allies. But for my guild, I do expect everyone to stay in nearly every well and catch nearly every ToT.

So how do you get 58 sec? I cast 1x TW (22s), 3x WoA (18s) and 4x ToT (24s). This means 64s quickness every 51s. With that indeed might miss one or two skills and keep it up. That’s why I said “nearly every well / ToT”.

There is currently no place where you would miss your team with ToT in raids, if done correctly. SoI is not required to keep up quickness for your sub squad, you don’t need more than ToT, WoA and TW.

Xyonon.3987:

In a real fight with my guild, everyone stays where they have to stay. They don’t just run around like scared chickens or stay whereever they want. :P This may be completly different with pugs so I totally agree with you that different mesmer builds and runes are optimal, according to your allies. But for my guild, I do expect everyone to stay in nearly every well and catch nearly every ToT.

So how do you get 58 sec? I cast 1x TW (22s), 3x WoA (18s) and 4x ToT (24s). This means 64s quickness every 51s. With that indeed might miss one or two skills and keep it up. That’s why I said “nearly every well / ToT”.

There is currently no place where you would miss your team with ToT in raids, if done correctly. SoI is not required to keep up quickness for your sub squad, you don’t need more than ToT, WoA and TW.

“In a real fight with my guild, everyone stays where they have to stay. They don’t just run around like scared chickens or stay whereever they want. :P”

I think watching some videos can do some good as to how often people are going to get hit with ToT and every WoA. I really don’t think in your guild runs that you all stacked up in a neat little ball especially on gorseval. And just because a real fight isn’t a vacuum doesn’t mean people are a bunch of scared chickens. Unless you call dragging gorseval to the wall running around like scared chickens, or gliding, or splitting to kill the spirits, or having the boss teleport to the middle, or knowing the VG will have to be moved soon, etc etc. Also, again, while in theory you might think 4 ToT is possible, you have to take into account cast time and more importantly if your already using a skill it will take time till your ToT goes off, and even without all that stuff ToT has a 30 second CD while CS has a 76 CD meaning your every 51 seconds would go up higher or you wouldn’t be using as many ToT in your second rotation. So this would be 11 ( TW ) + 9 ( WoA ) + 9 ( ToT )=29. 29 + 29 ( boon duration ) = 58. So as I said above due to boss mechanics, failed rotations, and players not being stacked up ( such as on gorseval, because he has such a big HB ) 58 seconds of quickness in theory ( presuming you don’t wait for WoR ) every 51ish seconds doesn’t cut it.

https://www.youtube.com/user/TheMidnightwinter/videos
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCySBtdfVwzNT37AkA8pphdw/videos

Our guild always stays stacked behind gorseval, while the tank (mes) stays infront of him and all the wells and ToT’s gonna hit my allies. The first link’s gorseval vid is exactly what I meant wish “scared chickens”. Too much movement that isn’t required, unless you’re running 10% food, yet then it’s just bad positioning.

About 4x ToT:
CS has 46 sec CD, yet I want to cast WoR 2 times so the CD will rather be 48, +quickness cast time, 51 in reality. In that 51 sec I can cast ToT exactly 4 times:

• 1x ToT with 0 sec CD (from CS)
• 1x ToT with 12 sec CD
• 2x ToT with 18 sec CD

-> 12 + 18 + 18 = 48 sec, now just say 3 full sec cast time with quickness (I’d be rather 2 tough) and you’re fine, I don’t see the problem.

offtopic: I’ve just seen your signature – you’ve earned a cookie for that :’D bravo! xD

Xyonon.3987:

Our guild always stays stacked behind gorseval, while the tank (mes) stays infront of him and all the wells and ToT’s gonna hit my allies. The first link’s gorseval vid is exactly what I meant wish “scared chickens”. Too much movement that isn’t required, unless you’re running 10% food, yet then it’s just bad positioning.

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About 4x ToT:
CS has 46 sec CD, yet I want to cast WoR 2 times so the CD will rather be 48, +quickness cast time, 51 in reality. In that 51 sec I can cast ToT exactly 4 times:

• 1x ToT with 0 sec CD (from CS)
• 1x ToT with 12 sec CD
• 2x ToT with 18 sec CD

-> 12 + 18 + 18 = 48 sec, now just say 3 full sec cast time with quickness (I’d be rather 2 tough) and you’re fine, I don’t see the problem.

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offtopic: I’ve just seen your signature – you’ve earned a cookie for that :’D bravo! xD

“* 1x ToT with 12 sec CD”

I totally didn’t realize ToT can have the CD reduction applied twice with two different ToT when using CS because even if you hit the same wall twice it still only does it once. But I went in game after I read this and apparently it works this way, interesting. This gives you more lee-way I didn’t expect.

I thought when you listed 51 you meant skipping WoR, but now that you explain it I see you made the mistake I made at first when I was considering different chrono builds. You compare a rotation from the beginning of CS all the way up to when CS is off CD, not from the end of CS to when CS is off CD. So the 64 seconds every 51 seconds is more like 64 seconds every 56ish seconds ( presuming you use WoR every CS ). That’s an extra 6 seconds higher than I thought cause of ToT.

Also, do you have any raid footage recorded/from other members in your raid to watch? One thing you note is stacking behind the boss, however the question is how tight? You have to worry about people being too far behind the boss and also to the left or right of you. In theory stacking tightly sounds easy, but I’m wondering how in practice how it actually works out. No doubt if your trying to go for a speed-run you would want to try to do that, but if your just wanting to kill the boss, how well does it work out? I’m not sold on it.

Also, how does pistol/sword offhand with SoI and rune of the chronomancer or sigil of concentration with scholar compare to well of calamity with leadership runes and shield?

One last thing to note is you still have to worry about the mechanics of the fight and blocking/evading. Especially for Gorseval this can be a big thorn in your side, which is why footage would be nice, but I’m still leaning on the side of SoI.

TL:DR: Some footage would be really nice along with some DPS tests to tell how good well of calamity is however with the whole 4 ToT thing it’s closer than I thought ( tho I still stand by the whole concentration with scholar, if you play the role of tank then I would wonder which is better )

For Mesmer raids build why should I use shield over focus or pistol. Even with the alacrity am I not losing a significant amount of dps if I 2/3 phantasms are avengers. Also I am seeing well of eternity in some builds instead of signet of ether. How do you get that 3rd phantasm seeing as you can only use deja vu if you are attacked during the channel. This doesn’t seem as consistent at casting ether.

Any answers would be appreciated thanks.

Lyger.5429:

For Mesmer raids build why should I use shield over focus or pistol. Even with the alacrity am I not losing a significant amount of dps if I 2/3 phantasms are avengers. Also I am seeing well of eternity in some builds instead of signet of ether. How do you get that 3rd phantasm seeing as you can only use deja vu if you are attacked during the channel. This doesn’t seem as consistent at casting ether.

Any answers would be appreciated thanks.

The signet heal is good, and shield’s usefulness is debatable, and focus isn’t always needed. And if you do run shield you should try to cancel your shield 4 right before it ends so it doesn’t spawn the phantasm if you already have 3 DPS phantasms up.

@Lyger.5429
Short: The shield gives quickness and alacrity. A damage phantasm only gives you like 2.5k dps. If you are the only mes in your group I highly recommend to rather boost the dps of your allies than your own. You should see what an ele or engi can do with alacrity, it’s insane. Ofc those peps also have to be capable of handling it ^^ So again, different builds for different allies.

@TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275
Sry I do not have any footage right now :/ I have no program to record stuff so I’m kinda not able to do so :< Maybe you can help me out with a GOOD one. (sadly shadowplay barely doesn’t work on my comp)

Yea my rotation is always 3 phants → T(F5)W → all the wells → ToT → F5 → ToT → WoR → all the wells → what’s off cd → repeat.

I’d say scholar is only good if you are not tanking, so far only good for Sabetha. At veil guardian and gorsy it’s most likely you that should tank. At veil they are never good, since the aura just keeps you below 90% most of the time. Gorsy would be ok if you wouldn’t tank, tough.

Xyonon.3987:

@Lyger.5429
Short: The shield gives quickness and alacrity. A damage phantasm only gives you like 2.5k dps. If you are the only mes in your group I highly recommend to rather boost the dps of your allies than your own. You should see what an ele or engi can do with alacrity, it’s insane. Ofc those peps also have to be capable of handling it ^^ So again, different builds for different allies.

@TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275
Sry I do not have any footage right now :/ I have no program to record stuff so I’m kinda not able to do so :< Maybe you can help me out with a GOOD one. (sadly shadowplay barely doesn’t work on my comp)

Yea my rotation is always 3 phants -> T(F5)W -> all the wells -> ToT -> F5 -> ToT -> WoR -> all the wells -> what’s off cd -> repeat.

I’d say scholar is only good if you are not tanking, so far only good for Sabetha. At veil guardian and gorsy it’s most likely you that should tank. At veil they are never good, since the aura just keeps you below 90% most of the time. Gorsy would be ok if you wouldn’t tank, tough.

“Short: The shield gives quickness and alacrity. A damage phantasm only gives you like 2.5k dps. If you are the only mes in your group I highly recommend to rather boost the dps of your allies than your own. You should see what an ele or engi can do with alacrity, it’s insane. Ofc those peps also have to be capable of handling it ^^ So again, different builds for different allies.”

That’s what I thought at first too but then I watched the build guide by Zui and he did some napkin math. I linked it above somewhere in one of my comments. Also, did they ever end up fixing the bug where it prioritizes pets over players?

“I’d say scholar is only good if you are not tanking, so far only good for Sabetha. At veil guardian and gorsy it’s most likely you that should tank. At veil they are never good, since the aura just keeps you below 90% most of the time. Gorsy would be ok if you wouldn’t tank, tough.”

Yeah that was along the lines of my thinking.

“Sry I do not have any footage right now :/ I have no program to record stuff so I’m kinda not able to do so :< Maybe you can help me out with a GOOD one. (sadly shadowplay barely doesn’t work on my comp)”

I don’t have a program or anything and I know nothing about how it works : (

Thanks for the input TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275 & Xyonon.3987. From what I gather I think might use shield if my group has enough dps but only use 1 avenger instead of 2. I’ll also stick with signet of ether but I’ll keep testing.

shield = 6s of quickness for everyone it hits every 18 seconds not counting CS rotation.
I think thats prety self explanatory support wise.
Other than that its more alacrity and more survivability as well in some situations.

And yes TFFF (I call you that now “TheFrighteningFrenchFry”), they fixed iAvenger along with banners and (frost) spirits. They now favor players in your squad > players > minions.

It was a great discussion, thank you for that!

a mesmer’s damage is balanced with phantasms in mind, and phantasms are not affected by force and accuracy.

air and fire have a cooldown period, which means it’s irrelevant whether phantasms can trigger them.

so yes, air and fire are superior

Lumpy.8760:

a mesmer’s damage is balanced with phantasms in mind, and phantasms are not affected by force and accuracy.

air and fire have a cooldown period, which means it’s irrelevant whether phantasms can trigger them.

so yes, air and fire are superior

I think we already addressed the whole air, force, accuracy, and fire thing and what to take.

Ooops.8694:

Xyonon.3987:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAs+dncfC9fitfCmfCUrhFVjiMAKgirOZn2qFtLSjsD-TBCBABjq+zZKBxS5BAnEg80LUmSs+3fIgHAApACcMA-e

This is you endgoal you want to aim for for raids. If you got questions, go ahead, I’ll check this thread to answer you

With the way GW2 rounds cooldowns and durations there really should be no reason for 100% boon duration… Math says Bountiful Sharpening Stone, 5 Runes of Surging and a Platin Dubloon (99% boon duration buffed) is the stronger and cheaper setup for that build.

Quoting this for truth. I honestly don’t understand how anyone in good can really recommend Runes of Leadership anymore. Even if they didn’t take a ridiculous amount of grind to get, they’re just worse than surging and bountiful stones since the other stats on leadership are so poor compared to the power from surging.

edit I actually don’t think you even need that platinum doubloon since 94% and up rounds 1 second boons to 2 seconds.

Dahkeus.8243:

edit I actually don’t think you even need that platinum doubloon since 94% and up rounds 1 second boons to 2 seconds.

How did you test that?

Molch.2078:

Dahkeus.8243:

edit I actually don’t think you even need that platinum doubloon since 94% and up rounds 1 second boons to 2 seconds.

How did you test that?

So, I knew that boons rounded to the nearest quarter second based on seeing this effect in game. For example, see the image on this post. Technically, you should need 25% boon duration to get a 1 second Time Warp boon to 1.25 seconds, but with just 20% boon duration, you can achieve this due to the system’s rounding.

However, after looking closely, I see that I was mistaken in trusting someone else’s math. I tested and recreated this in Excel by modelling out various different boon durations with the time rounded to the closest quarter second and for low boon durations (such as TW), you don’t even need 94%, but for long duration durations, like Well of Action, you need more than 94%

Since this is a different cap number for different durations, we can look at the durations we have and what caps are needed for them:

Time Warp – 1s quickness ticks ~ 88% boon duration caps this at 2s.
Tides of Time – 1.5s quickness ~ 92% boon duration caps this at 3s.
Runes of the Chronomancer – 2s quickness ~ 94% boon duration caps this at 4s.
Well of Action – 3s quickness ~ 96% boon duration caps this at 6s.

So, until we get a source of quickness with more than a 3 second base duration or a boon important enough to worry about that’s more than 3 second base duration, there’s no need to get more than 96% boon duration.

tl:dr – Correction, the boon cap is 96%. This was shown with math and the mechanic was proven from the attached image from in game.

But that’s just the tooltip. If you have 3 seconds of quickness and 96% boonduration, that quickness will last 3 × 1.96 = 5.88 seconds, no matter what the tooltip says.

You can try that with regeneration (or with conditions). The tooltip rounds, but the game itself does not, not even a bit.

Molch.2078:

But that’s just the tooltip. If you have 3 seconds of quickness and 96% boonduration, that quickness will last 3 × 1.96 = 5.88 seconds, no matter what the tooltip says.

You can try that with regeneration (or with conditions). The tooltip rounds, but the game itself does not, not even a bit.

Did you test it? I just seek the truth, I don’t say it’s right, nor that it’s wrong what you say. But I haven’t tested it myself so … did you?

Yes, but i have no videos of it. But it’s rather simple. Get some food with 14% or 20% boon duration, get some damage, and count the reg heal in your combat log.

Edit: Here is a screenshoot of my combat log, once with 0% boon duration, then with 20% and then with 14%. The tooltips said 6s, 7.25s and 6.75s, but the numbers are indeed exactly 20% / 14% higher than the 0% value.

Molch.2078:

Yes, but i have no videos of it. But it’s rather simple. Get some food with 14% or 20% boon duration, get some damage, and count the reg heal in your combat log. Don’t foget that most boonduration food also gives healing power.

Best proof, regen, didn’t think about that one. Thx!

Ty for testing it. I had a feeling it was like condi duration rounding but using regen.. that’s elegant

I see everyone arguing about quickness stacking and how “people don’t stand in wells” and time warp… yet the real power and source behind quickness stacking is neither of those. The secret behind quickness stacking is Seize the Moment (shatter stack quickness on self) and Signet of Inspiration (share all boons with allies)… So you your 96% goes towards quickness when you apply it to yourself, and then multiplicative effect from your signet to others. I can literally stack and maintain 45 seconds to 1 min quickness on my party.

All you have to do is continuum split, TW, Signet, Split back and TW with a few shatters and use signet again. Very easy to do. Just keep hitting your signet when off cooldown and profit.

Kusa.6438:

I see everyone arguing about quickness stacking and how “people don’t stand in wells” and time warp… yet the real power and source behind quickness stacking is neither of those. The secret behind quickness stacking is Seize the Moment (shatter stack quickness on self) and Signet of Inspiration (share all boons with allies)… So you your 96% goes towards quickness when you apply it to yourself, and then multiplicative effect from your signet to others. I can literally stack and maintain 45 seconds to 1 min quickness on my party.

It’s a nice idea to think about using StM, but Chronophantasma (how do we call this? CP?) is simply better in half organized groups. StM is not even close to be the “real power and source behind quickness stacking” as you called it. It’s obsolete if you have proper gear and allies.

If your allies are unexpirienced and they don’t even know how the mesmer wells work, I wouldn’t expect them to play their own profession good enough to be supported that much. I’d rather boost my own dps in such a situation.

You do NOT use SoI for the quickness in your own team btw, you use it to share the quickness to the 2nd team, for 100% quickness uptime in both subgroups. If you only have to take care of a 5 man squad, you should take WoC instead of SoI for major dmg / alacrity boost.

Kusa.6438:

All you have to do is continuum split, TW, Signet, Split back and TW with a few shatters and use signet again. Very easy to do. Just keep hitting your signet when off cooldown and profit.

I’ve got a video how to use a rotation including SoI. I’m alone in the video, so I can’t do “hopping” between my subgroups, but you would swap the sub each time you’re about to cast SoI (except for the one time you cast it within CS). It’s important to not overstack quickness with SoI, since quickness only stacks 9 times. If you cast multiple SoI right after another, the word “Immune” will pop up over your allies.

Here you go:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JP4h65k-Dk

Greez!
- Madame Le Blanc

I think a big thing to consider when choosing your runes/skills is the positioning and awareness of your allies. A lot of people like to recommend a setup that gets you “just enough” quickness and alacrity to technically keep it up 100% of the time. What they are not taking into account is human error. First off, your (or your tank’s) positioning might be off, or your group may be moving, which means that you’re going to be missing some of your perfect rotations.

Second, unless you are in a hardcore raiding guild/group where everyone is perfectly experienced, not everyone is going to be taking the best advantage of your buffs. I know it’s a stretch to compare this to public world events, but just as an extreme example, people rarely stand in my wells/TW during these events. While your private raiding group will likely be more coordinated, it’s still worth noting that not everyone is always considering all allies’ skills, and may end up missing some of your buffs.

For these reasons, I think running an excess of buffs can be warranted. I run chrono runes with SoI, and Wells of Action/Recall to make sure I’m spreading as many buffs as possible. Even if at times they overflow, it makes up for times that I miss a rotation, or allies move out of my wells. I agree that in a perfect world with a perfect min/max team, you would want just enough buffs to hit 100% uptime. However, most of us are not in perfect groups, and as this is a public forum that a lot of less experienced players will be consulting, I think my points are worth considering.

Kusa.6438:

I can literally stack and maintain 45 seconds to 1 min quickness on my party.

The cap is 51/52 seconds.

Charming Rogue.8071:

Kusa.6438:

I can literally stack and maintain 45 seconds to 1 min quickness on my party.

The cap is 51/52 seconds.

Wrong, the cap is 9 stacks.

Xyonon.3987:

Charming Rogue.8071:

Kusa.6438:

I can literally stack and maintain 45 seconds to 1 min quickness on my party.

The cap is 51/52 seconds.

Wrong, the cap is 9 stacks.

Is it me, or is every post that starts with “Wrong!” automatically read in the voice of Dwight from The Office? It’s just hard to read something so pretentious in any other voice…

Na, it’s pretentious to spread wrong information due of the lack of research. When I’m not sure about something, I sure say so. But when there’s a simple statement as “It is like this, period”, this drives me sorta mad :<

Greez!

Xyonon.3987:

Na, it’s pretentious to spread wrong information due of the lack of research. When I’m not sure about something, I sure say so. But when there’s a simple statement as “It is like this, period”, this drives me sorta mad :<

Greez!

Yea, people make mistakes and spread bad info because they believe in what they say. It’s a pretty natural thing to do and I’ve even seen you do it, so you can get off your high horse now. The work you do to theorycraft is appreciated until you decide to use it as a justification to be a jerk. There’s enough of that around here as it is.

Please stay calm and don’t start to insult me now … calling me a jerk is reall not the goal you should be aiming for. :/

Everyone can doublechek their informations they’re about to spread. It’s not about IF somone is right or wrong, it’s ok if someone says “I believe it is like this” or “Afaik it worked like this when I tested it X weeks ago” and may be wrong in the end anyway. Everythign is better than just saying “It’s like this period”. I’m allergic of that. Unless they can prove their statement with information ofc. That’s the point I was making, by doing the exact same thing to show how it sounds. But unfortunately I hit somone else than my “target”. :/

Have a bit more tact in responding to others and I’m sure you’ll find more in turn.

I’ll take this advice but also make a copy for you