Guild Wars 2

Is anyone else concerned about how anet is actually going to end up balancing chronomancer and their new alacrity effect without making chronomancer required for all builds?

The way I understand things alacrity is going to reduce the cooldowns of all mesmer skills, including those on existing weapons and utility skills. That means all those skills are indirectly buffed just for picking up chronomancer, now this is all very cool and interesting but is more than likely also going to end up causing balance problems.

Is anet going to increase the base cooldowns of all mesmer skills to make up for this and basically nerf all builds that don’t end up using chronomancer?
Is anet going to change alacrity to the point where it barely does anything at all?
Is it just going to be required to use elite specializations?

What is everyone’s thought on this?

I think they’re very aware of how powerful reducing cooldowns can be, since cooldowns are basically the only limiting factor for combat skills. (There’s a few others like initiative, or adrenaline to a lesser extent, but cooldowns largely dwarf them) So we’re likely to see heavy damage tradeoffs by taking an Alacrity-heavy route through the Chronomancer specialization.

I think they can keep it in the range between useless and mandatory.

With the path they have chosen, and I am happy they did, it will be hard to balance things out. Elite specializations are not meant to be better, as far as In understand. That means builds made out of core specializations must be able to compete. Tough job to do. Especially after I saw the strong clone and phantasm generation the chronomancer has. A Chronomancer in Dueling and Illusions could well just spam shatters left and right all day…

Keep in mind that you’re sacrificing the ability to pick a third mesmer core spec by taking the chronomancy line. That being said, you can’t just load up a typical mesmer shatter build, spec for alacrity, and have it be defautly better. That build has to be drastically different because you’re removing an entire third of what created that build in the first place.

TyPin.9860:

A Chronomancer in Dueling and Illusions could well just spam shatters left and right all day…

This is my hope … all you tiny Mesmers will see the true might of a giant Norn Mesmer constantly churning out more and more copies of himself and shattering them … flooding our enemies’ field of view with a tide of giant Norn bodies, butterflies, shattered glass, and their own tears … mmmmm.

For me, it depends on how the utilities work. There needs to be an opportunity cost utility-wise when choosing Chronomancer.

I bet it will good for the first few months, then other classes will cry and moan until it’s nerfed to the ground. The Mesmers become food for other classes again…

rchu.8945:

I bet it will good for the first few months, then other classes will cry and moan until it’s nerfed to the ground. The Mesmers become food for other classes again…

This is my only worry.

Well, Anet just has to make sure the core traits are right on the mark, gel sensibly and are very desirable.

In all honesty I like a lot of what I see, being able to shatter phantasms without losing them, the defence of the shield and offence of its phantasm. The way that the new shatter works looks like it will allow for some neat tricks, especially in PvE and possibly a big (sorely needed) damage boost in that area. They have added counter play to the shatter too which hopefully won’t die as fast as clones but not be hard to kill.

It’s also worth remembering what the dev said. For every 3s of alacrity you’re getting 1s shaved off the cool downs. At the moment it doesn’t look like you will be getting much more than 3s off a single shatter and stacking it up for long periods might not be too easy or worthwhile. So while on the surface it looks super powerful, on the other hand, you’re realistically only shaving a few (1-3) seconds off all your cooldowns.

Though that won’t stop the whining and I think rchu has the right idea. Ah well, at least the guardian specialisation is safe, code named G.O.D.

Well the alactricty has a counter already to keep it in check and it is called chill. I would expect them to add more chill in the game.

I’m sure it will work out decent in the end but we have yet to see other spec’s or classes.

I hope that thieves won’t benefit from alacrity, just like they don’t get the cd disadvantage for chill.

Just a note: I actually believe that Deceptive Evasion (the whole Dueling traitline) could be dropped for the few Chronomancer traits we already know. Create clone on shatter, create a replacement phantasm when shattering… and we can take both. And there’s still another spot for a trait. Combine that with reduced cooldowns on all skills, plus re-winding cooldowns… yup. Gonna be awesome.

I worry that the shield phantasm will be another iMage.

DaShi.1368:

I worry that the shield phantasm will be another iMage.

I don’t really. To me it looks like it functions much like scepter 2, it has counter play but when landed right, good effect.

dank.3680:

DaShi.1368:

I worry that the shield phantasm will be another iMage.

I don’t really. To me it looks like it functions much like scepter 2, it has counter play but when landed right, good effect.

Better to compare it to the pDisenchanter. A phantasm that uses a bouncing projectile attack that deals low damage, but makes up for the lack of damage with incredible utility.

rchu.8945:

I bet it will good for the first few months, then other classes will cry and moan until it’s nerfed to the ground. The Mesmers become food for other classes again…

months? it took like 24h to nerf power block…

Fay.2357:

dank.3680:

DaShi.1368:

I worry that the shield phantasm will be another iMage.

I don’t really. To me it looks like it functions much like scepter 2, it has counter play but when landed right, good effect.

Better to compare it to the pDisenchanter. A phantasm that uses a bouncing projectile attack that deals low damage, but makes up for the lack of damage with incredible utility.

Was there even a skill for a phantasm on shield? I dont remember seeing one on the video. Didn’t he use 4 and 5 on the POI?

Balancing should be simple enough(at least more so) now that you can only get 3 trait lines. This means they can balance it effectively by making sure all traits, and to a greater extent, all grandmaster traits are up to snuff and playstyle defining.

But naturally all this jumping around and phantasm/clone control, newer players will have trouble killing competent mesmers(its this way now for a lot of people) so there will be a lot of complaining and whining about the new stuff being super OP and uncounterable. Just have to hope that the people responsible for balancing are confident in their decisions and don’t just revert or nerf whatever they spent so much time on.

StickerHappy.8052:

Fay.2357:

dank.3680:

DaShi.1368:

I worry that the shield phantasm will be another iMage.

I don’t really. To me it looks like it functions much like scepter 2, it has counter play but when landed right, good effect.

Better to compare it to the pDisenchanter. A phantasm that uses a bouncing projectile attack that deals low damage, but makes up for the lack of damage with incredible utility.

Was there even a skill for a phantasm on shield? I dont remember seeing one on the video. Didn’t he use 4 and 5 on the POI?

Shield 4 is a block that stops a single attack. On expiration of the block(either time out or absorbing a hit) a phantasm that throws a shield will spawn. It bounces off enemies giving them chill/slow(can’t remember which) and hits allies giving them Alacrity/Quickness(again, can’t remember which). Then if you blocked a skill the first time, it becomes Deja Vu, and can block another attack while the initial skill is ticking down on its cooldown.

Necrotize.2974:

Balancing should be simple enough(at least more so) now that you can only get 3 trait lines. This means they can balance it effectively by making sure all traits, and to a greater extent, all grandmaster traits are up to snuff and playstyle defining.

But naturally all this jumping around and phantasm/clone control, newer players will have trouble killing competent mesmers(its this way now for a lot of people) so there will be a lot of complaining and whining about the new stuff being super OP and uncounterable. Just have to hope that the people responsible for balancing are confident in their decisions and don’t just revert or nerf whatever they spent so much time on.

StickerHappy.8052:

Fay.2357:

dank.3680:

DaShi.1368:

I worry that the shield phantasm will be another iMage.

I don’t really. To me it looks like it functions much like scepter 2, it has counter play but when landed right, good effect.

Better to compare it to the pDisenchanter. A phantasm that uses a bouncing projectile attack that deals low damage, but makes up for the lack of damage with incredible utility.

Was there even a skill for a phantasm on shield? I dont remember seeing one on the video. Didn’t he use 4 and 5 on the POI?

Shield 4 is a block that stops a single attack. On expiration of the block(either time out or absorbing a hit) a phantasm that throws a shield will spawn. It bounces off enemies giving them chill/slow(can’t remember which) and hits allies giving them Alacrity/Quickness(again, can’t remember which). Then if you blocked a skill the first time, it becomes Deja Vu, and can block another attack while the initial skill is ticking down on its cooldown.

Thanks necrotize, I think I missed that part. Is the block like the engie gear shield or blocks 1 attack?

StickerHappy.8052:

Thanks necrotize, I think I missed that part. Is the block like the engie gear shield or blocks 1 attack?

sadly, I think it only blocks one attack, seems like mesmer can’t have blocks that last a few seconds like everyone else in this game

It only blocks 1 attack(2 if you count Deja Vu) and you can move while holding the shield up even though the screenshots show you kneeling down and holding it up. While I do wish it blocked all attacks for a duration, the phantasm it summons seems really good, especially since I think you can potentially summon two of them with one skill use and their alacrity buff can bounce between other phantasms. So multiple phantasms giving you and other phantasms alacrity.

Hmm i see, So the remaining traits are for wells, shield, alacrity, and other unique stuff! I am so excited.

Would we happen to know how many traits is it for 1 trait line? I hope its a lot of stuff to choose from!

StickerHappy.8052:

Would we happen to know how many traits is it for 1 trait line? I hope its a lot of stuff to choose from!

Presumably the exact same as the current ones. 3 minor, 3 adept, 3 major, 3 gm.

Necrotize.2974:

It only blocks 1 attack(2 if you count Deja Vu) and you can move while holding the shield up even though the screenshots show you kneeling down and holding it up. While I do wish it blocked all attacks for a duration, the phantasm it summons seems really good, especially since I think you can potentially summon two of them with one skill use and their alacrity buff can bounce between other phantasms. So multiple phantasms giving you and other phantasms alacrity.

Seems good on paper, I hope it won’t be another iMage, failing to hit even a slowly walking dolyak.

Menaka.5092:

Necrotize.2974:

It only blocks 1 attack(2 if you count Deja Vu) and you can move while holding the shield up even though the screenshots show you kneeling down and holding it up. While I do wish it blocked all attacks for a duration, the phantasm it summons seems really good, especially since I think you can potentially summon two of them with one skill use and their alacrity buff can bounce between other phantasms. So multiple phantasms giving you and other phantasms alacrity.

Seems good on paper, I hope it won’t be another iMage, failing to hit even a slowly walking dolyak.

Same here, from the video it looked to be a bit faster. Also helps that Shield comes with built in timestopping potential and the phantasm buffs its own attack cd speed. Only issue I saw is that without a target, the block can’t be activated due to the phantasm component.

Menaka.5092:

Necrotize.2974:

It only blocks 1 attack(2 if you count Deja Vu) and you can move while holding the shield up even though the screenshots show you kneeling down and holding it up. While I do wish it blocked all attacks for a duration, the phantasm it summons seems really good, especially since I think you can potentially summon two of them with one skill use and their alacrity buff can bounce between other phantasms. So multiple phantasms giving you and other phantasms alacrity.

Seems good on paper, I hope it won’t be another iMage, failing to hit even a slowly walking dolyak.

I share this concern, since this skill is clearly inspired by Captain America, hopefully the travelling speed of the shield will be just as fast.

Necrotize.2974:

Only issue I saw is that without a target, the block can’t be activated due to the phantasm component.

Well, my friend, this you don’t have to worry. This is quoting from Dulfy’s website

“It is a shield bubble that will block attack and create a phantasm on the enemy you blocked or on the enemy you targeted when it ends.”

So when u block, it works similar any other mesmer block skills, spawn a phantasm that targets the attacker. When you don’t block and the skill duration runs out, the phantasm is still summoned on whoever you’re targeting.

Fay.2357:

dank.3680:

DaShi.1368:

I worry that the shield phantasm will be another iMage.

I don’t really. To me it looks like it functions much like scepter 2, it has counter play but when landed right, good effect.

Better to compare it to the pDisenchanter. A phantasm that uses a bouncing projectile attack that deals low damage, but makes up for the lack of damage with incredible utility.

Well I meant the fact that there is a delay after the attack landing/blocking before the phant comes out, similar to scepter 2.

dank.3680:

Fay.2357:

dank.3680:

DaShi.1368:

I worry that the shield phantasm will be another iMage.

I don’t really. To me it looks like it functions much like scepter 2, it has counter play but when landed right, good effect.

Better to compare it to the pDisenchanter. A phantasm that uses a bouncing projectile attack that deals low damage, but makes up for the lack of damage with incredible utility.

Well I meant the fact that there is a delay after the attack landing/blocking before the phant comes out, similar to scepter 2.

That may be, but I think a critical difference is that you won’t be able to dodge the counter like you can scepter 2. Phantasm casts can’t be dodged.

I just wonder if alacrity and its corresponding slow will have any effect on thief initiative. It worries me that they compare the Chronomancer mechanic to chill, last thing mesmer needs is another potentially interesting mechanic that can be ignored with little ill effect by our hardest match up (Power Block).

I think people misunderstand what alacrity can do. It doesn’t instantly reduced the whole cd of the skill, it just acts like chill, reducing CD when you stand in the pulse, and revert back to original CD when it ends. However it still is very powerful when combine with shorter CD skills like rapid fire. In fact, the shorter the cd of a skill, the more it benefits from alacrity.

What I really concern about is the conjunction of alacrity and F5 skills, which turn out to have way shorter CD than I originally anticipated. (60 secs only) Just imagine that mesmer is able to cast quickness twice, grant group stability for 10 secs twice, use alacrity twice, feedback twic, null field twice. It seems to be abit too OP when combine with all the other buffs.

I can already tell that mesmer will be a must-have in PVE and WvW after the change already. Actually if mesmer doesn’t use elite at all, it’d essentially turns all mesmer’s powerful elites into 60 cd skills instead of 180 cds. (f5 cd only 60 secs) I really think Anet should take consideration into the CD of f5.

Toxsa.2701:

What I really concern about is the conjunction of alacrity and F5 skills, which turn out to have way shorter CD than I originally anticipated. (60 secs only) Just imagine that mesmer is able to cast quickness twice, grant group stability for 10 secs twice, use alacrity twice, feedback twic, null field twice. It seems to be abit too OP when combine with all the other buffs.

(…) I really think Anet should take consideration into the CD of f5.

I’m 90% sure that Robert Gee explicitly noted that they have already increased the CD of F5 from 60 seconds. Like, even beyond the “none of these numbers are final”.

So while I agree a 60 seconds F5 would be pretty nuts, the developers are way ahead of us on this one.

I kind of called it with the illusion death and still having them alive after shatter.

I stated that maybe when you have both clones and Phantasium up, when you shatter, only one of this will be shattered. What they have given us is also good.

But man it need balancing. Having all 3 of the phantasium of any of the weapons is most def an OP skills. Super spike damage.

You can hear it now. Calling for the nef so fast.

Personally, I think they shouldn’t change this but what they can do is after shatter and your illusions return, they should do less damage maybe quarter of each of the previous illusion damage and stagger their timing so they action one after each other. This will help in all part of the game, PVP, PVW and WVW

1. PVP, players are now forces to take out our illusion else they will pay for it.
2. More game type play style for the class.
3. PVE, we now have our sustain damage.

Wait, so Toxsa, you are saying that I can now kill all my dps in pve by shattering 3 phantasms so I can use my powerful Moa Morph more often on the boss? Well you called it first, new Moa Morph PvE speed clear meta! If anything it might help to bring TW back to being a bit closer to the shadow of its former self. I am also pretty sure from your comments that in fact you, as opposed to the entire Mesmer forums, have no idea what alacrity does.

Toxsa.2701:

In fact, the shorter the cd of a skill, the more it benefits from alacrity.

This isn’t true at all.

Say a skill normally recharges at 1 second of skill time for every 1 second of real time. With alacrity, skills will recharge at 1.5 seconds of skill time for every 1 second of real time.

This doesn’t have a bigger benefit for short skills. In fact, if maintained for the duration of a recharge, it has a significantly larger effect on a long cd skill.

Feaduin.7603:

Wait, so Toxsa, you are saying that I can now kill all my dps in pve by shattering 3 phantasms so I can use my powerful Moa Morph more often on the boss? Well you called it first, new Moa Morph PvE speed clear meta! If anything it might help to bring TW back to being a bit closer to the shadow of its former self. I am also pretty sure from your comments that in fact you, as opposed to the entire Mesmer forums, have no idea what alacrity does.

You talk as if summoning 3 clones is hard lol… What you can do is turn Time Warp to a 60 cd skills, and channel gravity well on a 60 cd bases for stabilities. This is immensely useful in all types of game-play.

Also if you know alacrity so well, why not elaborate your theory? Do you think it’d just instantly make all your skills recharges 66% directly as oppose to just increases the recharge rate from 1 sec to 1.66 ? (They talk about it’s opposite of chill, and chill works exactly like that. Recharge rate 1 sec to 0.66 sec)

I think the skills that Alacrity will be most useful for, are the skills that you plan on using as soon as they come off of cooldown. Blurred Frenzy, for a damage rotation. Any skill* that you’re willing to let sit on your bar unused for 5-10 seconds doesn’t gain value from Alacrity.

*Signets are a good exception I guess, since you get the passive benefits back sooner.

keenlam.4753:

Necrotize.2974:

Only issue I saw is that without a target, the block can’t be activated due to the phantasm component.

Well, my friend, this you don’t have to worry. This is quoting from Dulfy’s website

“It is a shield bubble that will block attack and create a phantasm on the enemy you blocked or on the enemy you targeted when it ends.”

So when u block, it works similar any other mesmer block skills, spawn a phantasm that targets the attacker. When you don’t block and the skill duration runs out, the phantasm is still summoned on whoever you’re targeting.

This is a HUGE problem for this phant summon. Essentially a lot of the time it’ll be summoning on anything but your target. Pets and clones a prime example. It’s like scepter 2 but worse partly due to cd. It might seem like a nice idea to the devs, but it should be reworked to something more reliable. Summons a phant AND blocks, for example. Though that’d mean the phant cast covers its own summon.

Softspoken.2410:

I think the skills that Alacrity will be most useful for, are the skills that you plan on using as soon as they come off of cooldown. Blurred Frenzy, for a damage rotation. Any skill* that you’re willing to let sit on your bar unused for 5-10 seconds doesn’t gain value from Alacrity.

*Signets are a good exception I guess, since you get the passive benefits back sooner.

That’s exactly my point. It works better on short cd skills because it’ll help you “channel your skills better” (for example 8 secs skill, with 3 secs alacity, it’ll turn into around 3 secs CD within the field, which will quickly channel next burst) For longer CD skills it’s just a minor improvement of CD but nothing else. (60 secs cd for example, it’d be 55 cds within the alacity duration, which doesn’t change much)

Toxsa.2701:

Also if you know alacrity so well, why not elaborate your theory? Do you think it’d just instantly make all your skills recharges 66% directly as oppose to just increases the recharge rate from 1 sec to 1.66 secs per second?

Actually what you say there is correct, but this is what you said before:

“I think people misunderstand what alacrity can do. It doesn’t instantly reduced the whole cd of the skill, it just acts like chill, reducing CD when you stand in the pulse, and revert back to original CD when it ends.”

which makes absolutely no sense…

Feaduin.7603:

Toxsa.2701:

Also if you know alacrity so well, why not elaborate your theory? Do you think it’d just instantly make all your skills recharges 66% directly as oppose to just increases the recharge rate from 1 sec to 1.66 secs per second?

Actually what you say there is correct, but this is what you said before:

“I think people misunderstand what alacrity can do. It doesn’t instantly reduced the whole cd of the skill, it just acts like chill, reducing CD when you stand in the pulse, and revert back to original CD when it ends.”

which makes absolutely no sense…

Then it’s wording problem. What I mean by “revert back to original cd” means “original cd recharge rate”. I typed too fast and didn’t emphasize enough.

But my point stands, because I later mentioned that short cd skills work better with alacity, which is somewhat true.

Ross Biddle.2367:

keenlam.4753:

Necrotize.2974:

Only issue I saw is that without a target, the block can’t be activated due to the phantasm component.

Well, my friend, this you don’t have to worry. This is quoting from Dulfy’s website

“It is a shield bubble that will block attack and create a phantasm on the enemy you blocked or on the enemy you targeted when it ends.”

So when u block, it works similar any other mesmer block skills, spawn a phantasm that targets the attacker. When you don’t block and the skill duration runs out, the phantasm is still summoned on whoever you’re targeting.

This is a HUGE problem for this phant summon. Essentially a lot of the time it’ll be summoning on anything but your target. Pets and clones a prime example. It’s like scepter 2 but worse partly due to cd. It might seem like a nice idea to the devs, but it should be reworked to something more reliable. Summons a phant AND blocks, for example. Though that’d mean the phant cast covers its own summon.

I totally agree, Ross. This is a legit concern. An easy solution could be allowing the mesmer to prematurely end the cast to ensure the phantasm summoned on target, the trade-off is ofc you lose access to Deja Vu follow-up skill which only activates with a successful block.

Its only trade-off in gameplay wise… if we go Domination/dueling/Chrono we miss only Illusions trait, but we gain like 3x shatter.. but when we wants play condi we can eithter go Domination/chaos illusion or Chrono both will give some things. For sure Mesmer got few viable builds, now its up to pr0 play3r5 to +/- them and made only 1 viable… xd

Am I the only one that remembers how easily illusions and phantasms die to a stray fa**?

Or that most weapons (even the dreaded mesmer bane D/X thief) have cleave?

Also some people seem to be forgetting the part of the F5 skill that leaves a vulnerable sprite which from what they said on the podcast is most likely not got a lot of health if putting some AoE will destroy it and bring the Mesmer back to the AoE.

You also have to be in combat to be able to keep enough clones to use the ability, which to me says it’s very high risk even if you found a hiding spot for the sprite. The application will be great for PvE and to be honest, I’m glad, maybe I can play a Mesmer and not feel like I’m the least damaging person on the team and that I’d have been better off rolling guard.

apharma.3741:

Also some people seem to be forgetting the part of the F5 skill that leaves a vulnerable sprite which from what they said on the podcast is most likely not got a lot of health if putting some AoE will destroy it and bring the Mesmer back to the AoE.

I’m curious about this, too. It could easily make F5 useless in WvW or large scale PvE. But I guess we have to hope for the devs to find a balanced CD / durability of the nexus or whatever it is called.

after hearing the skills, while chrono is definately entertaining, i dont think its OP at all. you got a fairly low damage phantasm, a long cool down 5 skill, without a ton of damage.

and you have the f5, which sacrifices all your clones/phantasms in order to pull of a nice trick, which is generally not going to give you more damage than just doing a mind wrack, and way more difficult to pull off, you can in fact come out with a net loss, and an enemy can essentially use it to manipulate you.

its more of a utility class, and its big benefits will likely be team support/special operations. An extremely well played one will probably do pretty decent damage, but an average played one will do crappy dmg. And the combinations of strong traits with better synergy in other lines, will probably make them excel better at their chosen purpose, than chronomancer except in its field of expertise.

The biggest deal right now? most teams will want mes to go chronomancer, because it provides unique effects that no one else can provide.
lowering recast on powerfull skills/combos is something that most high end teams wont want to be without.

but it wont make you a better condimancer/direct dps/interupt/ from what we have seen so far.

Xaylin.1860:

apharma.3741:

Also some people seem to be forgetting the part of the F5 skill that leaves a vulnerable sprite which from what they said on the podcast is most likely not got a lot of health if putting some AoE will destroy it and bring the Mesmer back to the AoE.

I’m curious about this, too. It could easily make F5 useless in WvW or large scale PvE. But I guess we have to hope for the devs to find a balanced CD / durability of the nexus or whatever it is called.

well, it may be based on mesmer stats, like clones/illusions: aka you may need some toughness to dispense your powerful buff combos.