Guild Wars 2

Really, if you play Chronomancer wou will Never stay with lesser than 1-2 clones and phantams and that make it really OP when used in a shatter build.
Combined with the F5 and the signet you can seriously shatter 4 times in 10 seconds.
That’s a little too much.

The thing isn’t wrong. It’s good and well inserted into the idea of chronomancer.
But it will grant to the Chronomancer a insane amount of copies, that make the player able to shatter anytime he want with a good result. In a condition build when you have only to press Fx and inflict torment on the enemy, if you have all that clones and phantasms all the time you’r work is too easy to do!

Mesmer already have a insane amount of damage and a really high survavibility and mobility. If you add a free clone and phantasm and a free turn-back-and-hit-again with F5 you will make it Over Powered.

It’s like make the warrior able to active Eviscerate 4 times in 10 seconds! And from Range and hard to block/blind (it can be evaded evading all the attacks at the same time, but aegis, a block and blind don’t block all the shatters, making the mesmer able to inflict damage). It is something that should not happen!

To prevent that Chronomancer become really OP my proposal is to add a ICD into the traits Illusionari Reversion (8-10 sec and of ICD) and Chronophantasma (10-12 sec of ICD).

That will make that traits still viable but not OP like actually they are in the Beta.

Chronomancer is fine.

Velimere.7685:

Chronomancer is fine.

Yup. It’s not significantly stronger than traditional power shatter, it’s just a little more flexible. Like, you can actually use shatters other than Mind Wrack without totally throwing your burst damage threat out the window.

This proposal would gut Chronophantasma and IR completely.

Anet: please do not take this person seriously.

edit
lol Silv I already know you lied in your post over here about chronomancer to try to get nerfs

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Chronomancer-is-disgusting/page/2#post5364436

Give it up, and test the actual class more before you ask for nerfs instead of making assumptions and lying. lol, signet of illusions can be used on continuum split, your hilarious.

Seriously, this kind of topics/posts have to stop… I kinda miss some tight moderation i’ve experienced in other Ncsoft games forums.
I bet if banhammer start hitting some users, people will only post “nerf posts” when actually it is needed / with proper and constructive feedback.
This is just pure bashing just like many other posts… I bet if mesmer was nerfed in everyway ppl want, they would find another thing to nerf and eventually when class was dead, they would change their aim to another one.
That said, i wanna say that the “overpowered” new mesmer things ppl cry of, are just as “op” as other class things that we got used with time/that no one complains about maybe because they are older?
Evolve and adapt… you cant play the same way with same things all the time and do fine all-arround. Things change. If it didnt change, game would become boring and repetitive. Embrace new classes in “meta”, new mechanics, re-try/re-use unused traits/skills/weps you “trashed” out.

TL:DR: most posters like op have the “its new, i dont know how to deal with it, i dont wanna think about it, why should i try to deal it if i can just go forums and cry to just nerf it” condition.
I felt amazing beating many thiefs when they hardcountered mesmer… Hard? yes, some. Yet i have no nerf thief or this and that posts.

Hell no!

No ICD on Illusionary Reversion or Chronophantasma.

If they gut these two traits after gutting MtD, I will probably take a very extended vacation from the game. IR and Cp are the ONLY thing allowing me to accept the MtD nerf.

And I’d like to think I’m in the sensible camp that supports nerfs for PU and CS.

Xstein.2187:

lol Silv I already know you lied in your post over here about chronomancer to try to get nerfs

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Chronomancer-is-disgusting/page/2#post5364436

Give it up, and test the actual class more before you ask for nerfs instead of making assumptions and lying. lol, signet of illusions can be used on continuum split, your hilarious.

It would be one thing but if you look through Silv’s past posts; there are randomly always ones poking and dissing mesmers. Hard to take someone seriously when they got full case of mesmer haterade at their desk fully ready for posting.

Just lol.

If you want you can cancel that post. No matter. Mesmer is still overpowered.

But, seriously, why the hell a Chronomancer have to stay ALWAYS with 2 clone/phantom active?

That make the class really broken!

The only thing that a mesmer have to do is make clones and shatter them in the face of the enemy. (and survive by teleport, decoy, etc while the enemy don’t know where you are, taking time to heal and recharge your skills)

If you make the class able to have Always it’s clone and phantosm to shatter, that make it increadibly stronger than before.

You shatter, then dodge and you have already 3 clones to shatter another time.

That’s not a little too easy and too much????

It’s like making the warrior always able to skill it’s F1, swap weapon, dodge or press a skill, press F1, swap weapon, wait a moment, press F1…
That’s a little exagerated, but it’s Only an Example to explain the concept. A chance to always active your best skills to kill your enemy and save your a**, just for Free.
And if you look, warrior F1 skill have more or less the same CD of Mind Wrack. Add to that that mesmer have other 4 very good skills and yes, the example isn’t so exagerated now.

Now you will kill me because I’ve compared the mesmer witht the warrior, but the thing is that: too easy, too frequently, too rewarding.

That traits need a little nerf or it will be a big problem at the release of the game.

Seriously, guys, dont be alarmed only why it’s your favorited class and look at how really OP that trait can be if combinated into a shatter build!

It takes a lot to make a stew~

Silv.9207:

If you want you can cancel that post. No matter. Mesmer is still overpowered.

But, seriously, why the hell a Chronomancer have to stay ALWAYS with 2 clone/phantom active?

That make the class really broken!

The only thing that a mesmer have to do is make clones and shatter them in the face of the enemy. (and survive by teleport, decoy, etc while the enemy don’t know where you are, taking time to heal and recharge your skills)

If you make the class able to have Always it’s clone and phantosm to shatter, that make it increadibly stronger than before.

You shatter, then dodge and you have already 3 clones to shatter another time.

That’s not a little too easy and much????

que? Illusionary Reversion gives you 1 clone on shatter, not 2.
Xstein is right, you really don’t know what you’re talking about.

Ehm… seriously, guys… had you try the Chronomancer in this beta?

Illusionary reveng grant 1 free Clone and Chronophantasma grant 1 Phantasm Back (only for one time for every phantom, if you shatter it twice it don’t come back anymore).

You have Two Traits to obtain clones and phantoms back. That make you able to stay more or less alwasy with a clone and a phantasm up.

Before say that I don’t know what I’m talking about read and think about the chronomancer skills and traits. You’re the best mesmers of the game, right? Why have I to explain one by one all the traits of your elite specializzation?

No they don’t.
Plus what people refuse to realize is that to take Chrono you have to give up a line. In their example your taking dueling for DE and probably Chaos( manip cd and stealth since just having clones out WILL NOT FOOL A DECENT PLAYER) therefore you give up Dom which is your damage line.
We make a trade off for EVERY spec. I would love to be able to spec this magical 6/6/6/6/6/6 build that we are able to trait for everything in. But I can’t.

Bottom line- people aren’t happy that Mesmer is in a good spot. There’s two kind of those people. First is your forum warriors that want it nerfed just cause, they really don’t need a reason other than they probably don’t know how to fight it and want to complain instead of L2P. Second is your current/former mesmers that aren’t happy because now they aren’t special due to playing a class that took “high skill” to play. That my opinion obviously. And like kittens, everyone has one. Feel free to disagree.

hmm. in any shatter build that uses shatters .. with dodge roll trait i can have 3 clones up for every single shatter if i wanted to.. this dosent do much more but give you the 3 in a more lazy way.

for the most part if you are doing any actions after taking these 2 traits you will be wasting clones by replacing them unless you are constantly choosing decisions based on shattering every illusion.

most people are not. they are making decisions based on thier enemy not max dps. max dps dosent always = winning.

and its hard to get a chrono build that shatters well without being squishy. so the people who are making you think chrono is op are most likely just better players since it isnt as forgiving as a pu build or inspiration build.

Silv.9207:

Ehm… seriously, guys… had you try the Chronomancer in this beta?

Illusionary reveng grant 1 free Clone and Chronophantasma grant 1 Phantasm Back (only for one time for every phantom, if you shatter it twice it don’t come back anymore).

You have Two Traits to obtain clones and phantoms back. That make you able to stay more or less alwasy with a clone and a phantasm up.

Before say that I don’t know what I’m talking about read and think about the chronomancer skills and traits. You’re the best mesmers of the game, right? Why have I to explain one by one all the traits of your elite specializzation?

Have you tried cleaving them down, or spamming aoe? I’ve heard that works pretty nicely for clearing out illusions…

EDIT: Just saw a few of your posts and thus deleted mine to replace it with this
Mesmer not having any counter -> Thief because of the amount of gap closers and blinds it has and any kind of condition class because mesmer actually has no condition removal in a build thats worth playing in an actual game.
You also complained about mesmer doing 4 3 clone shatters on you in 10 seconds, what did you do with all your dodges? Like woot. (+ blocks ect as I see you’re playing burn guard)
Basically you have L2P issue and I don’t mean this to be a D but seriously, its just a matter of L2P.
Mesmer wasn’t really in the meta for a long time and people before had to know to just dodge mirror blade if they saw one, now that mesmer isn’t underpowered anymore and more people are using it, people don’t know how to play vs it and they die really quickly and then go QQ on forums. Thats a really egocentric, lazy, pathetic way of going about issues. (Not targeting you in specific). There were a few mesmer related things that were too strong and people aknowledged that and there is still a few things but overall 99% of the things people complain about are very easy to deal with if you actually take the time to learn the matchup.
Also if someone runs the 1 clone + chronoplantasma kitten they’re missing out on traits that are actually good, who the hell would be running that? Thats like not deceptive evasion. Oh wait..

+1@Fay

I don’t play warrior it’s the first class that come in my mind that active a damaging F1, to obtain something similar to be compared.

I can reduce my damage by a little, what’s the problem? I lose 30% of my damage? If I inflict14-15k of damage by only press F1 (I play a berserker build and a mesmer can more or less inflict me 15k of damage if I don’t block/evade/blind that damage), I renunce to it and chose to inflict only 10k. I think that’s already enough damage for a single skill. Expecially if I will obtain back 2 of the “minion” (this way you don’t be confused between clones and phantasms, ok?), making me immediatly able to active other offensive and defensive skills.

If you don’t want the duelling traitline you can use domination to deal more damage, duelling only made my example easier to do.

I can kill some mesmers but not all. If the mesmer is good I’m a good player and I know how to use my class against a mesmer, but I can’t do nothing more to die more slowly. If the mesmer isn’t a good one i can kill him easy or I can kill him with some difficulties. But I don’t know a player that can say that he’s build hardcounter a mesmer.

Seriously, I don’t know anyone that can seriously hardcounter a very good mesmer.
Some time ago thiefs wil lbe able to kill a mesmer, but I know a member of my guild that is unkillable. He play mesmer from the release and he’s a beast, that’s true, but he never lose a 1vs1 and can win 2vs2 (depending on the classes). Before the patch he was able to oneshot anyone, after the patch he’s able to destroy anyone without a single problem.

At the end of all that: I’M HAPPY ABOUT THE MESMER AND CHRONOMANCER

I really like the mesmer. It’s finally a good class! Deal damage, have a high risk → high result playstile and had some builds that I really like.

The only thing is that I really don’t know a class that easy-kill a mesmer.
And a class that isn’t hardcountered by another become immediatly OP.

For example, I can kill easy a large amount of rangers and warriors and thiefs builds. But I can’t kill necros (really can’t), eles and mesmers.
And I have to play at my best to kill engi and guardians.

But can you show me a class that can easy kill a mesmer? Make the example of two classes against a mesmer really can’t win with your build. Two builds against you can’t do anything to win. (we’re taling about high level spvp, not hot join)

My fear is that Chronomancer, with that 2 traits, put it more in evidence, making it hated much than actually is and nerfed to the ground.

But with this 2 little nerf you can still use that traits and be able to deal all your damage, without be overpowered.
A cooldown of 6 seconds can be very good, for example, to not make you abuse ot that trait to be really a god to hit, stun and blur, damaging the enemy and making you untouchable while still able to inflict all your damage. But it wil lgrant you the cance to obtain back a clone and a phantasm, making you able to skill immediatly to block the enemy or evade all the damage. And that’s a incredible power given by 2 passive traits.

That’s my opinion. Mesmer is good, but that rick to make mesmer really overpowered, like it actually barely isn’t.

Let it go. Everyone can see you post history. Everyone can see that you don’t like mesmers. Everyone can see where you misrepresented mesmer skills. You aren’t going to convince anyone here.

I don’t like PU and the "OP"ness of a class that can kill more or less every other classes and can’t be hardcountered.
Yes.

But mesmer is a class, nothing more. I like to fight a gainst a good mesmer. Hate only the fact that sometimes I die before I can even notice it why he shatter me for 15+k of damage while in stealth.

Out of that it’s a very good class.

I’ve posted against PU and that actual 2 traits of the chronomancer because I think that they will make it OP. Yes.

You’ve never posted because you’ve thinked that 1 or 2 traits or skills will make a class OP?

mesmer have builds for every situation. If you’r problem is condition damage, use Inspiration traitline and Arcane Thievery and kill every single condition damage class that you see on your way. Reduce a little your damage or your stealth duration but you can kill them really easy with that trait. I’ve see a lot of mesmer use it.

Anyway, that couple of traits like they are will make chronomancer really OP in every single build you will chose to use: shatter (for shatter why you need only to make 2 copies and a phantasm, active F3 to daze your enemy, dodge to reach your 3 free minions to shatter and inflict all your damage to a immobile enemy -theory-), for Condition (you shatter inflicting tormen then you take back a phantasm that can inflict conditions and when you want you can inflict your confusion+torment with F2), or you can active wathever Fx you want to heal yourself if you want to do a … defensive build…

Too easy too rewarding. That’s all. No hate, no vengeance. Only two traits that grant a reward too big and too easy to be combined with all the mesmer’s build of the game.

That’s what we call OP, right?

You didn’t even read my post.. rip.

I’m guessing this is not a mesmer main and he’s just crying because of some pvp nonsense. Why should mesmers have 1 or 2 clones out? Seriously? Seriously? That’s part of the class. That’s what they do for god’s sake and you want that nerfed? I tried out the chrono and so far it feels nice. It actually might get me to play my mesmer alt a bit more. Still wouldn’t change my main though.

Edit to the my first post on this thread. As I have said in the other thread, I appologize, I thought you were using signet of illusions outside of continuum split. I also know you were misunderstood here again when you meant two illusions when you said 2 clones/phantasms. I also know you misunderstood me when I replied to you in the other thread. Soooo, ya thats a lot of misunderstanding.

With that said, it doesn’t change my reasoning for why I think illusionary reversion and chronophantasma don’t need changed. The traits should remain the same. I also still think everything needs to be tested in actual pvp matches before nerfs are ever called against any specialization that is coming out. Now that thats said, I can’t see this thead going any further with anything good coming out of it.

Xstein.2187:

Edit to the my first post on this thread. As I have said in the other thread, I appologize, I thought you were using signet of illusions outside of continuum split. I also know you were misunderstood here again when you meant two illusions when you said 2 clones/phantasms. I also know you misunderstood me when I replied to you in the other thread. Soooo, ya thats a lot of misunderstanding.

With that said, it doesn’t change my reasoning for why I think illusionary reversion and chronophantasma don’t need changed. The traits should remain the same. I also still think everything needs to be tested in actual pvp matches before nerfs are ever called against any specialization that is coming out. Now that thats said, I can’t see this thead going any further with anything good coming out of it.

That last sentence. So much truth.
And it goes for not just this one, but all the other threads claiming that Mesmer is op or Chrono is op, etc when the basis of these claims are golems and people standing still so they can eat a shatter.

But, seriously, why the hell a Warrior have to stay ALWAYS with generating adrenaline? That make the class really broken!
But, seriously, why the hell a Ranger have to stay ALWAYS with pet active? That make the class really broken!
But, seriously, why the hell a Elementalist have to stay ALWAYS with access to million skills? That make the class really broken!
But, seriously, why the hell a Necromancer have to stay ALWAYS with generating life force? That make the class really broken!
But, seriously, why the hell a Theif have to stay ALWAYS with initiative? That make the class really broken!
But, seriously, why the hell a Engineer have to stay ALWAYS with 2 heals, 6 utility and 2 elites? That make the class really broken!
But, seriously, why the hell a Revenant have to stay ALWAYS generate Energy? That make the class really broken!
But, seriously, why the hell a Guardian have to stay ALWAYS with passive virtues? That make the class really broken!

kitten now everybody is OP

Lets drop this thread guys. Silv has been trolling mesmer for at least 2 years based on his posts. From quoting seeing mesmers spawn 5 illusions at a time, to complaining sword 2 is OP, to absolutely hating on MOA morph, and then claiming mesmers were a good source of fire(wut?) bleeds(ok….) and poison(wut?). On top of that when mesmers got nerfed a while back and were being replaced by necro’s with fear builds he was positively gleeful, even quoting Harry Potter here when everyone was seeing mesmer’s disappear from tpvp in favor of necro’s:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of1bVlo_5Y4&hd=1
Need we say more? He rolls an spvp guardian and is hardly hurting right now with Guardians absurd ability to spread fire everywhere but hey, he advocated for nerfing MOA morph and got his wish.

I have no doubt Silv, that you would love to see Mesmer nerfed into the ground. Its not your main, and you want to gut chronomancer because he threatens Dragonhunter(pfft) and so you are proactively asking for nerfs when you know full well not all the specializations are released so we don’t know how the other classes may prove anti-mesmer already. I for one am still waiting for thief elite(head-shot mesmers skill set probably) so better to chill for now and let the whole L2P experience kick in before coming to the mesmer forums to rile us.

Seriously, stop posting. The only reason this thread is still alive is because people are getting baited by the op. If you stop posting, the thread will either fall off the front page in a day, or can be reported for bumping.

I’ve never seen so much fear-mongering from a single individual in my entire life.

Looking at the OP’s post history, he plays Burn Guardian in PvP. He probably got beat a few times by a chronomancer and now he is scared he won’t be able to dominate as much. :p Chronomancer is fine. I PvP Burn Guard myself so I don’t have the same bias. I just recently got into Mesmer in PvE, and started enjoying the Play style in PvP. My Guard is my favorite by far, but when Mesmer Winner is the daily I do enjoy going a few rounds with it.

pu power is still the most efficient no matter how many clones oyu create

I would hate reversion If it got an icd and probably stop playing the game altogether again. I would rather want a rework of it. Icd makes it unpredictable and would hinder any thought behind using it- unlike for example Dodge clone.

I just reported this thread as the OP already made a post in the PvP forums and is on a crusade to spread misinformation on something he clearly knows nothing about.

Okay okay, let’s give IR an ICD per Phantasm. Oh wait, that’s a buff… oh well, let’s do it anyways!

phokus.8934:

I just reported this thread as the OP already made a post in the PvP forums and is on a crusade to spread misinformation on something he clearly knows nothing about.

Just let him work out his grief. He’s been one of the most frequent “nerf Mesmer” posters for a while now, so it’s natural he’d be upset that Mesmers are getting something cool in Heart of Thorns.