Guild Wars 2

I am not much of a theorycrafter, so before I drop gold on the runes and buy em (as my mesmer isnt a tailor and cant craft em eventhough my chrono is fully unlocked), would those of you who are more numbers inclined gime them a look?

Right now im running a full zerker ascended armour with Scholar runes. Would switching to chrono runes be beneficial for my dps?

Crit chance would be slightli higher, but at a loss of a bit of crit damage and the +10% damage when above 90%.

And since chrono rune’s 6th effect is quickness on wells, than i pretty much lose the no 6 effect if i dont run a well.

I love the sound of chrono runes, but dont think they are worth it, despite the appeal.

smilko.4056:

I am not much of a theorycrafter, so before I drop gold on the runes and buy em (as my mesmer isnt a tailor and cant craft em eventhough my chrono is fully unlocked), would those of you who are more numbers inclined gime them a look?

Right now im running a full zerker ascended armour with Scholar runes. Would switching to chrono runes be beneficial for my dps?

Crit chance would be slightli higher, but at a loss of a bit of crit damage and the +10% damage when above 90%.

And since chrono rune’s 6th effect is quickness on wells, than i pretty much lose the no 6 effect if i dont run a well.

I love the sound of chrono runes, but dont think they are worth it, despite the appeal.

Since the quickness is only for the user and you already have a lot of quickness with chrono some other rune is probably better for PvE

I’m enjoying the Chronomancer Rune. It’s very helpful for getting off a Continuum Split Well bomb. Just activate CS while in mid-cast for a slower Well (i.e. not Eternity, Action works).

Note that the Rune appears to have a 2-3s ICD, so if you’re spamming 4-5 Wells during a CS you’ll only actually trigger it 2-3 times.

Dastion.3106:

I’m enjoying the Chronomancer Rune. It’s very helpful for getting off a Continuum Split Well bomb. Just activate CS while in mid-cast for a slower Well (i.e. not Eternity, Action works).

Note that the Rune appears to have a 2-3s ICD, so if you’re spamming 4-5 Wells during a CS you’ll only actually trigger it 2-3 times.

That’s pretty dissappointing and really decreases the functionality. I’d be up for using the rune though you’ll have to compensate for the ferocity loss through a change of nourishment from precision to power. If you can’t keep up scholar it’d be a good alternative.
I personally run time warp in most cases so as long as I use that first, any CS well bomb goes fine without the runes. I think the runes are nice, and could be used with illusionary inspiration for a good support effect too, which could be great in long fights. The ICD kills it though, and they’ll stay below scholar on raw damage if you can handle yourself well.

I recommended in another thread to carry both sets.

For fights where reflects are needed the traditional Assassin+Scholar would be used. In fights where no reflects are needed Berserker+Chronomancer may pull ahead, though it’s disheartening to hear that the 6th bonus is a little buggy atm (no word if this is intended or not).

Sanderinoa.8065:

I personally run time warp in most cases so as long as I use that first, any CS well bomb goes fine without the runes.

This is correct. Make sure time warp is the first cast in your combo, and you’ll execute the whole thing with no problems.

I was gonna grab them, then noticed the bonus is self-only and thought better of it.

Chronomancer runes are fine. You don’t need Time Warp on an SoI build if you have them (you cap out around 20s either way) so you can instead run 4x Wells (Eternity, Recall, Action, Gravity) + SoI and Shield to put on max stacks of quickness during your DI burst, then have all that stuff recharged midway through F5’s CD so you can spread another 10s or so of quickness. Using the standard Time Warp combo, you’re limited to about 20s of Quickness per CS, as opposed to about 30s with a Chronomancer/SoI setup..

Fay.2357:

Sanderinoa.8065:

I personally run time warp in most cases so as long as I use that first, any CS well bomb goes fine without the runes.

This is correct. Make sure time warp is the first cast in your combo, and you’ll execute the whole thing with no problems.

I was gonna grab them, then noticed the bonus is self-only and thought better of it.

Since i have 2 ascendent set (zerk and assassin) i followed the suggestion savacli gave me in the other thread and i’ve put chrono runes on one set and scholar in the other.

(my english isnt very good so i apologize if i wont be able to explain what follow properly.)

Then i’ve passed the next 4 hours closed in istance\fotm on real gameplay and on practice side i’ve noticed what follow:

-It is totally true that when you have time warp doing your fully rotation isnt an issue so when you have tw and cs rdy rune of scholar are the clearly winner.

-On long fights whenever i was able to hold up a perfect rotation to maximize alacrity uptime i have 2 cast of cs every single base cast of tw (speaking of base cooldown+alacrity). That means A) 1 well bomb with tw; —> 1 well bomb without tw --> A) 1 well bomb with time warp.

B) is where chrono runes shine cause having them allowed me to cast 2xwells\skills compared to scholar

-On 3 sec istagib trash, where summon clones\phantasm isnt the best cause you are los and trash die too fast, chrono runes wins again cause they allowed me to share quickness with inspiration while casting 2 well+shattering saving cd for next pull with cs while with scholar i could just cast 1 well+shatter due to lack of clones

At the end of the day i think best option is having 2 set like savacli said but in general i also think that chrono runes bring so much more versatily between wellbomb\tw rotation (insp buff share like sandi said for another example) that i barely will use scholar set outside heavy reflective content.

I also suspect that raid fight will last more than 40 sec and their mechanics will prize versatily of chrono rune.

Anyway this evening i will try to keep doing some test put down some number.

Sorry for my english again

I’m currently using them since, at least in the open world, I cast wells frequently and time warp somewhat infrequently. But I could see myself changing them if I start to feel like it’s not worth it.

@Aelfwe: Just to be clear on a couple things…

You never cast time warp without CS. You use CS to reduce time warp to a 45 second cooldown, so you only use time warp while in CS. Every full CS well bomb you do will include time warp.

On 3s instagib trash, they’re dead by the time your wells will even do their full activations, or maybe shortly after. A couple seconds of quickness on a Mesmer isn’t going to be even the smallest boost for a group.

Really the only situation I see them being worth it is something like random open world roaming where a bit of extra quickness is nice. Otherwise, not worth it.

I doubt the 90%+ can be kept up as good as before anymore, especially raids, jungle and high fotm WILL damage you. I take chronomancer rune because it’s better than eagle in harder envoirments, not because it’s better than scholar in the already too easy parts of the game.

Xyonon.3987:

I doubt the 90%+ can be kept up as good as before anymore, especially raids, jungle and high fotm WILL damage you. I take chronomancer rune because it’s better than eagle in harder envoirments, not because it’s better than scholar in the already too easy parts of the game.

Is this room for Condi hybrid to grow? Berserker runes give an unconditional 5% (compared to Eagle’s conditional 7% and Scholar’s conditional 10%), and adds 5% condi damage on top.

Fay.2357:

@Aelfwe: Just to be clear on a couple things…

You never cast time warp without CS. You use CS to reduce time warp to a 45 second cooldown, so you only use time warp while in CS. Every full CS well bomb you do will include time warp.

Well, alacrity uptime reduce tw cd to 90s average rather than 180s.

Cs allows you to cast 2 tw in 90s rather than just 1.

To be more exactly cs let you cast 2 tw every 90 sec if you cast the 2nd tw in a window of 45 after the 1st tw (1st tw is the one that you cast at beginning of cs – time bomb).

The 45sec tw cd is just the general average cd who suit better with revenant to maximixe quickness in the most of the actual content.

So you’re right but the statement it isnt always true, cause not always casting 1 tw exactly every 45sec is the better choice.

And here comes next point…

Fay.2357:

On 3s instagib trash, they’re dead by the time your wells will even do their full activations, or maybe shortly after. A couple seconds of quickness on a Mesmer isn’t going to be even the smallest boost for a group.

If during an actual boss fight you rotation is always the best, there are times when simply you dont fight a boss every 45 sec and then the trash pull before boss you wont (wisely) use tw.

Here come’s rune of chronomancer + illusionary inspiration, put down right well during pull and start cast phantasm while mob comes and ALL your party (and NOT just “mesmer”) will have quickness on every pull where with scholar you are binded to a single rotation+shield

Fay.2357:

Really the only situation I see them being worth it is something like random open world roaming where a bit of extra quickness is nice. Otherwise, not worth it.

I really really really hope that the “challenging” raid would be something real “challenging” with fight who last more than 40 sec and mechanincs who involve you to adapt rather than destroy trivialized content.

Now because “adaption” is where chrono runes win over scholar i think that i’ll be using them more than scholar.

And to be honest, our dmg in istance like mesmer (outside reflect) has always been crap compared to other class. Chronomancer spec just give us a real role in party, a buffer role with reflect rather than a portal bot with reflect.

In general i dont think that moving from the 41x % reflect dmg i have on my scholar setup to a 40x % reflect will change much at this point.

So from a side we have an unreliable utility buff but perflectly fitting with our new party\raid role (chrono rune) and on the other side we have an unrealible dmg buff who is tangible just with reflect only (scholar rune).

I still think best choice is having both setup but atm if i’d have to chose between them i’d go for chrono runes (hpoing for raid ofc)

@Aelfwe: Your math is heavily flawed, and makes your logic heavily flawed as well.

Permanent alacrity lowers a cooldown to 60% of the original cooldown. This means the 180s cooldown of time warp will drop to 109 seconds, not 90 seconds. That’s a pretty huge difference.

Instead, you can only cast time warp while in CS, keeping it off cooldown when not in CS. Since you’re in CS every 45 seconds, this means time warp has an effective cooldown of 45 seconds as well.

Also remember that you’re not limited to time warp for quickness. Well of action is 3s, and the shield wall is another 3s. Together that’s 6s, or as much as 3 wells with the chrono runes would provide, all without needing to take inspiration for the boon share.

One chronomancer running Pyro’s rotations with 100% boon duration could cover an entire raid with 78% quickness uptime (78% for one group, 87% for the other).

The same chronomancer with just 50% boon duration (from a Herald) could cover a single group with 95% quickness uptime, no Signet of Inspiration required.

Boonsharing is not necessary for sufficient quickness support.

Memser math always… perplexed me. I’m never sure how it works between reflects and phantasms. That said, I did some basic calcs on my current mes to figure out which rune I would go with. This is with mostly pure berserker gear (sans the backpiece).

No runes:
2,311 starting power
1,900 starting precision (46.88% crit chance)
890 Starting Ferocity (209.3% crit damage)
In the dueling line, I get near perma fury and fencer’s finesse, which comes to 66.88% crit chance and 219.3% crit damage. These can be exchanged later if you are unhappy with my build assumption.

With Chrono Runes:
2,486 Power
71.14% Crit Chance
219.3% Crit Damage
1.8473 Crit Mod
4,592 effective power

Scholar:
2,486 Power
66.88% Crit Chance
225.3% Crit Damage
1.8375 Crit Mod
4,568 effective power
x1.1 modifier at above 90% health. Note, in HoT it is quite hard to sustain this by myself, so I’m adjusting it to x1.05 for now.
4,796 Effective Power

Eagle:
2,311 Power
75.2% Crit Chance
225.3% Crit Damage
1.94 Crit Mod
4,483 Effective Power
x1.06 damage mod (up half the time, so changing this to x1.03)
4,617 scaled effective power.

Without fencer’s finesse or fury (non-dueling build), you get the following:

Chrono Runes:
1.559 Crit Mod
3,874 Effective Power

Scholar runes:
1.539 Crit Mod
3,827 Effective power (before 6th bonus)
4,018 scaled power

Eagle Runes
1.635 Crit Mod
3,778 Effective Power (before 6th bonus)
3,891 scaled power

I haven’t factored in additional group buffs because, so far in HoT, I find myself either by myself or with players who don’t have that many support skills. It is strange how often I’ll be in a group of 10 and not get any might… anyway, the difference between Chrono Runes and Eagle runes is nigh negligable before factoring in quickness (literally half of one percent).

The scholar rune is where things get tricky. I haven’t been using the shield lately due to my solo-roaming nature. I find the phantasm’s single player contribution to be nill, so I’ve been running offhand sword/pistol. Without walls of meat to distract enemies, my health is almost always lower than 90%, so the additional bonus is only good for the opening strike.

The hard part is quantifying the bonus power. Assuming a non-bugged version and 4 wells not named precognition, with permanent alacrity, we will get a total quickness uptime of 47.2%. (2/18 + 2/18 + 2/12 + 2/24). For now, I’m going to assume continuum shift as an 8 second bonus quickness every 45 seconds (from the rune alone), coming to 65%. Now, factor in time warp (10/45), Well of Action (3/18 + 3/45), and you’ll get an additional 40%, coming to a total uptime of 100% plus spare change.

The personal amount without the runes is 10/45 + 3/18 + 3/45, which is a 45.6% quickness uptime. Now, I’m going to use these values to get a “weighted DPS bonus” from quickness. This is, time on quickness x 1.5 + time not on quickness x 1. With the runes… you simply have 50% higher DPS (1.5). Without the runes, you have a 22.8% higher DPS (1.228). Comparing the two, the chrono runes can be said to have a relative modifier of 1.22 against scholar runes.

This is where mesmer’s ugly intricacies rear their head. On any other class I would just say “take the runes!” and be done with it. But… mesmer damage doesn’t come from the mesmer. It comes from phantasms, and reflect. This is where my analysis skills fail me: I don’t know how things like scholar bonuses, precision, or ferocity interact with these two faces, or what proportion of DPS they make up now.

So for solo roaming, I’d definitely say to take the runes. You go from having quickness less than half the time to having quickness all the time.

In a premade, however, there is one strategy that renders this all moot. If you have a herald on the team, and have decided beforehand that the herald will keep facet of nature active, and you yourself are running chaos for the boon duration boost… then the chrono runes are definitely a waste. You’ll regularly have 65% boon duration, 75% group uptime of quickness. At that point, you’d probably be better off going with Rune of the Herald or something similar to maximize group quickness uptime.

/random wandering math tangent.