Guild Wars 2

Thanks AN. Quoting your ‘Meet the chronomancer’.

Alacrity functions as the inverse of chill by speeding up skill recharges rather than slowing them down. Chronomancy is the only specialization allowed access to this powerful effect, and chronomancers can share alacrity with allies in limited situations, making them an incredibly powerful ally to have in any party.

And I’m pretty sure that in one of the interviews AN employee said that they doubt that any future mesmer specialization will recieve alacrity as you want to keep it unique to ‘time manipulation’.

It was 1st time after all these years I was happy about balance change for mesmer till I read about revenant. I’m still happy but would be nice if you stop taking away class identity. It would be much better to find a unique to revenant type of buff… Why not taking away rangers pet and giving it to guardian? Not taking engie turrets and give to thief?

I’ll admit, I’m surprised they took its uniqueness away.

I’m sure most revenant players didn’t really want this either, and would’ve preferred real improvements instead.

The worst part is that in a PvP setting, revenant alacrity seems to be actually much more reliable. Just had a game with a ventari revenant and I did feel it…

Another promise not kept. Another hit to Mesmer. I am totally not surprised.

I’m also not surprised that the devs don’t dare show up on forum. That was promised also.

@Fay I agree with you that balance team has no idea what consistency is but I’d think that they have someone like game designer or s1 who keeps an eye on such promises.

I’m happy with the buffs mesmer recieved and they seem really good but I hate AN breaking promises every now and then.

Silverkey.2078:

The worst part is that in a PvP setting, revenant alacrity seems to be actually much more reliable. Just had a game with a ventari revenant and I did feel it…

I wouldn’t be surprised if Rev got the old 66% alacrity rate tbh

Gibon.1705:

@Fay I agree with you that balance team has no idea what consistency is but I’d think that they have someone like game designer or s1 who keeps an eye on such promises.

I’m happy with the buffs mesmer recieved and they seem really good but I hate AN breaking promises every now and then.

You’re making the classic mistake of assuming that the balance team actually cares about consistency. They really don’t. They just say things because they sound good, not because they actually mean it. I’m certainly not pleased with the change, but I’m not surprised and I’m not going to get worked up over something inevitable.

Taking a closer look at the Ventari buff. They gain 5 energy a second. 3 seconds of alacrity on a skill that costs 20 energy so it’s not sustainable to camp and spam for 100% uptime. I’ll have to check in game but it seems like they will have to swap legends every 10 second and spam a single button for 10 seconds while in ventari and have zero energy for everything else. This will give them 15 seconds of alacrity every 20 seconds (does alacrity affect legend swap? might be slightly higher).

Anyhow, I don’t care that they gave them alacrity. I was personally thinking Ventari should receive gotl though. Chrono still very much has a strong spot in raids and class diversity was increased. How is that a bad thing?

Clownmug.8357:

I’m sure most revenant players didn’t really want this either, and would’ve preferred real improvements instead.

I think on the revenant side, something of this type makes sense. Ventari provided only healing (and not that much). The line/legend needed an additional form of support. I don’t necessarily feel that alacrity makes huge sense theme-wise but balance-wise, it was probably planed by a-net as a way to reduce the absolute need for mesmer in a group.

Is anyone actually worried about mesmer being outclassed by Ventari Revenant?

Quickness might not be unique, but it’s still very, very rare.

The only other real source of group quickness is the Guardian’s Feel My Wrath, which is a 5 target limit without enough duration to even maintain it on 5 people unless you’re running 2 guardians who all have high boon duration. At worst it just means we’ll go back to Chronomancer + Revenant instead of 2 Chronomancers, and that’s only if the time warp change and well of action changes are enough to make it possible for 1 chronomancer to maintain it.

Mesmer get’s screwed over at every single patch so i’m not surprised this time.

I mean ventari was druid not chronomancer so from lore POV he should get GotL

As a rev main you can calm down; we never wanted this and as a whole we are still going to get melted against a condi mesmer, plus don’t expect to see many revs this upcoming season anyways since they did not address what most of us were asking for anyways.

Colly.4073:

Mesmer get’s screwed over at every single patch so i’m not surprised this time.

hahahahahahahahaha.. hahaha .. Please..
Not trying to be offensive, but it legit made me laugh.

Have Mes/Chronos received nerfs in the past? Absolutely, but so has every single other class. You cannot even compare the state of Mesmers to the state of Revenants at the moment. One is top tier, the other is trash tier. I’ll let you guess which one is which.

Kayte.5378:

Colly.4073:

Mesmer get’s screwed over at every single patch so i’m not surprised this time.

hahahahahahahahaha.. hahaha .. Please..
Not trying to be offensive, but it legit made me laugh.

Also this.

Omega Zoa.3859:

As a rev main you can calm down; we never wanted this and as a whole we are still going to get melted against a condi mesmer, plus don’t expect to see many revs this upcoming season anyways since they did not address what most of us were asking for anyways.

That’s part of our frustration. This change won’t make ventari a relevant legend, so there wasn’t even a point in giving away alacrity to it in the first place.

OriOri.8724:

Omega Zoa.3859:

As a rev main you can calm down; we never wanted this and as a whole we are still going to get melted against a condi mesmer, plus don’t expect to see many revs this upcoming season anyways since they did not address what most of us were asking for anyways.

That’s part of our frustration. This change won’t make ventari a relevant legend, so there wasn’t even a point in giving away alacrity to it in the first place.

Agreed. Ventari did not need alacrity. They needed a complete overhaul, but that simply won’t happen. Giving them Alacrity is a duct tape solution at best.

Tbh I don’t give a kitten about alacrity remaining our “unique feature” – it’s not like they changed alacrity to a boon and gave it to every class.

Have no idea whether it will even give Ventari what it needs to be useful, but the act of giving alacrity away is not an issue.

Tbh I don’t give a kitten about alacrity remaining our “unique feature” – it’s not like they changed alacrity to a boon and gave it to every class.

Have no idea whether it will even give Ventari what it needs to be useful, but the act of giving alacrity away is not an issue.

This + its just like confusion and torment who where launched as a mesmer thing, then given to many professions…

But it will be good if they can save some “roleplay” (identification) on professions (like why dh had slow on trap last patch ?), or at last give an explanation on how it come from to this class (put a little rp description so we dont feel like they are juste choosing an effect and given it to a classe “because” it has 0 relation to the profession but we think it will balance it.).

As a rev main the change won’t affect you guys since we can’t pump out perms quickness, Mesmer’s are still fine

I don’t think it matters that Revs have Alacrity. I can’t think of how to incorporate them into a group.

A dps group would need

Chrono (Quickness, Alacrity)
PS (Might, Banners, Empower Allies)
Druid (Spotter, Frost Spirit)
2 DPS to make the Chrono’s quickness useful and alacrity useful, otherwise the Chrono is less valuable than a 3rd DPS. The 2 DPS also need Druid for Spotter and Fury, otherwise they have to drop their own power in favor of more precision. There is no place for the Ventari in this group.

Group 2 :
Chrono (Quickness, Alacrity)
Condi PS (Might, benefits from Engi’s Condi buff)
_______: to be determined.
Condi Engi : Good DPS (if you can do the rotation) + Condi Buff
Condi Ranger : Easier rotation + Slightly higher condi damage than Engi.

So the _ there is the problem : It’s either a Druid or a Ventari :
Druid – You can do Healer Druid, or Condi Druid for low pressure fights.
—-Condi Druid Benefits from Engi buff, provides Spotter for more crits, and provides Sun Spirit for extra burning from everyone in the group.
—-Ventari would have to be a healer, since for the alacrity to be useful they would either have to coordinate with the chrono (high skill threshold) or keep the tablet up 100% of the time which leaves them little room for DPS. Assassin’s Presence wouldn’t do too much to help the condi group either.

I think the Druid is still the better option.

Ventari Healer is a nice idea, but Druid has just too much utility to be replaced in any scenario.

Gibon.1705:

It was 1st time after all these years I was happy about balance change for mesmer till I read about revenant. I’m still happy but would be nice if you stop taking away class identity. It would be much better to find a unique to revenant type of buff..

Don’t be worried: you barely will see Revs after this patch; even a empty character slot seems a improvement. Noone will dispute your alacrity in PvE, and in PvP/WvW Memer hardcounters Revs even harder.

And don’t be worried about the roleplaying: Revenant still has no lore; in fact is not a class: was a pretext to sell HoT copies, and now that the task is done can be scraped as a used kleenex.

Fay.2357:

Gibon.1705:

Thanks AN. Quoting your ‘Meet the chronomancer’.

Alacrity functions as the inverse of chill by speeding up skill recharges rather than slowing them down. Chronomancy is the only specialization allowed access to this powerful effect, and chronomancers can share alacrity with allies in limited situations, making them an incredibly powerful ally to have in any party.

And I’m pretty sure that in one of the interviews AN employee said that they doubt that any future mesmer specialization will recieve alacrity as you want to keep it unique to ‘time manipulation’.

It was 1st time after all these years I was happy about balance change for mesmer till I read about revenant. I’m still happy but would be nice if you stop taking away class identity. It would be much better to find a unique to revenant type of buff… Why not taking away rangers pet and giving it to guardian? Not taking engie turrets and give to thief?

shrug

The only things consistent about the balance team is that they have no vision for balance and that they will always break any promise they make. Anyone who thought it would actually be chrono-specific was simply naiive.

I would argue anet has no vision on what this game should be.

The issue is that this game is between a fighting game and traditional mmorpg. Ever since the introduction of torment, I believe anet will keeping adding duration skills until every profession is a predictable set of button smashing.

Kayte.5378:

Colly.4073:

Mesmer get’s screwed over at every single patch so i’m not surprised this time.

You cannot even compare the state of Mesmers to the state of Revenants at the moment.

Hmm i didn’t compare Mesmer’s state to the state of Revenant’s and btw i think your in the wrong forum.

Fay.2357:

The only things consistent about the balance team is that they have no vision for balance and that they will always break any promise they make. Anyone who thought it would actually be chrono-specific was simply naiive.

Remember, Torment is “The Necromancer Unique Condition”.

Silverkey.2078:

The worst part is that in a PvP setting, revenant alacrity seems to be actually much more reliable. Just had a game with a ventari revenant and I did feel it…

Thats because PvP Mesmer builds arent made with team support in mind, they are all offensive builds, which rely on shattering your clones constantly. When you shatter your only phantasms which give alacrity and you dont bring wells, what alacrity would you expect from Mesmer in pvp? PvE is a whole different matter, where you can upkeep 100% uptime on your whole group.

Carighan.6758:

Fay.2357:

The only things consistent about the balance team is that they have no vision for balance and that they will always break any promise they make. Anyone who thought it would actually be chrono-specific was simply naiive.

Remember, Torment is “The Necromancer Unique Condition”.

Haha, yep.

I seem to remember predicting this over a year ago but I can’t find my post… I’m not surprised in the least Anet did this. Look at their track record.

• Confusion was a mesmer thing
• Moa was a mesmer thing
• Torment was a necromancer thing on shroud 5 skill at first

I’m sure there’s more examples. This stuff is typical of RPGs. They introduce a mechanic or ability that is unique to one class, then later on they spread it around for balance reasons. It’s like entropy. Homogeneity among RPG classes always increases over time. Don’t be surprised when engineer gets alacrity on one of their elixirs. Don’t be surprised when warrior gets a quickness banner. Maybe a year from now chronomancer will be completely replaceable.

If you paid attention to the necromancer and guardian forums during the revenant/herald reveal streams, you’d know that stealing class concepts is sort of the revenant’s thing.

Xenon.4537:

I seem to remember predicting this over a year ago but I can’t find my post… I’m not surprised in the least Anet did this. Look at their track record.

• Confusion was a mesmer thing
• Moa was a mesmer thing
• Torment was a necromancer thing on shroud 5 skill at first

I’m sure there’s more examples. This stuff is typical of RPGs. They introduce a mechanic or ability that is unique to one class, then later on they spread it around for balance reasons. It’s like entropy. Homogeneity among RPG classes always increases over time. Don’t be surprised when engineer gets alacrity on one of their elixirs. Don’t be surprised when warrior gets a quickness banner. Maybe a year from now chronomancer will be completely replaceable.

Nah, because with your logic, Chronomancers will have spirit weapons and be top dps.

Kayte.5378:

Xenon.4537:

I seem to remember predicting this over a year ago but I can’t find my post… I’m not surprised in the least Anet did this. Look at their track record.

• Confusion was a mesmer thing
• Moa was a mesmer thing
• Torment was a necromancer thing on shroud 5 skill at first

I’m sure there’s more examples. This stuff is typical of RPGs. They introduce a mechanic or ability that is unique to one class, then later on they spread it around for balance reasons. It’s like entropy. Homogeneity among RPG classes always increases over time. Don’t be surprised when engineer gets alacrity on one of their elixirs. Don’t be surprised when warrior gets a quickness banner. Maybe a year from now chronomancer will be completely replaceable.

Nah, because with your logic, Chronomancers will have spirit weapons and be top dps.

It’s like a bunch of mesmers have been asking for DPS elite specs. If one day we get the DPS we’ve been asking for and become interchangeable with tempest DPS…. it’s almost as if we would have more class/build diversity that everyone wants. Can’t have that. Better whine now. /s

Honestly with how perma group alacrity has become such an important part of raids I think spreading alacrity about a bit is good for the health of Mesmer and future Mesmer elite specs. The same can be said about Quickness too.

Of course this should go hand in hand with compensating Mesmer in other areas.

This is very disappointing to me but not surprising.

That being said, I think the change has 0 impact balance-wise for both Revs and Mesmers. The precedence of giving profession-specific abilities to other classes was broken a long time ago.

Levetty.1279:

Honestly with how perma group alacrity has become such an important part of raids I think spreading alacrity about a bit is good for the health of Mesmer and future Mesmer elite specs. The same can be said about Quickness too.

Of course this should go hand in hand with compensating Mesmer in other areas.

I find that while lots of people are quick to say this, a lot of them also don’t agree with spreading GotL out among other classes, or spreading warrior’s banners out among other classes. Funny.

OriOri.8724:

Levetty.1279:

Honestly with how perma group alacrity has become such an important part of raids I think spreading alacrity about a bit is good for the health of Mesmer and future Mesmer elite specs. The same can be said about Quickness too.

Of course this should go hand in hand with compensating Mesmer in other areas.

I find that while lots of people are quick to say this, a lot of them also don’t agree with spreading GotL out among other classes, or spreading warrior’s banners out among other classes. Funny.

Ranger is my second most played class, I would gladly give away the entire druid spec to any other class that wants it.

Kayte.5378:

Nah, because with your logic, Chronomancers will have spirit weapons and be top dps.

Lol I’ll bet you right now mesmers get spirit weapons one day. Guaranteed.

Will they be top dps? Maybe for about 2 hours, then it gets “hotfixed”.

Sheik

“Time passes, people move…. Like a rivers flow, it never ends… A childish mind will turn to forum posting… Young Alacrity will become Ventari’s domain… The clear water’s surface reflects growth… Now listen to the Complaints of Posters to reflect upon yourself….”

We’ll always have Portal.

Coffietire.2783:

If you paid attention to the necromancer and guardian forums during the revenant/herald reveal streams, you’d know that stealing class concepts is sort of the revenant’s thing.

I would never argue with that and I would not have problems with rev getting Legendary chronomancer stance in the future and have access to alacrity. Since then its basically a chronomancer and it makes sense.

And to everyone saying that mesmer is still main source of alacrity/quickness and always will be needed:
1. you wont know it till qT benchmarks, if they say that now quickness is applied by warior and alacrity by druid pugs will believe it and not take mesmer anymore
2. as far as I agree that mesmer is still a thing as main source of alacrity I am not worried about ‘mesmers place’ but rather I hate AN giving away class specyfic things (had same issue with torment, confusion etc) and breaking their promises just because they suck at getting new fitting ideas.

Since hot they are dropping and breaking promises every now and then

The Revenant is a dead class. I wouldn’t worry, really I wouldn’t.

All the people saying “I wouldn’t worry about Rev” are missing the point as to why others are upset.

No I understand why you’re upset. it was supposed to be a Chrono unique and it isn’t anymore. Plus who knows? One day they may make Revs viable again.

Also at least a few revs on the forums have posted SS of absolutely insane heals being had with ventari now. I don’t think Rev is dead as a support class in organized content.

Levetty.1279:

Honestly with how perma group alacrity has become such an important part of raids I think spreading alacrity about a bit is good for the health of Mesmer and future Mesmer elite specs. The same can be said about Quickness too.

Well yes, it makes sense to a degree.
We know from other MMOs that the concept of raid-buffs/-debuffs is rather important to facilitating class balance in raids.

As such, the concept of a “main” provider of a given element or buff and one or more “secondary” providers is important. It just hurts because ANet seems to be unwilling to properly re-build classes based on this shift in design.

Carighan.6758:

As such, the concept of a “main” provider of a given element or buff and one or more “secondary” providers is important. It just hurts because ANet seems to be unwilling to properly re-build classes based on this shift in design.

Im fine with rev getting alacrity in future when next wave of elite specs hits. Just make it properly, give him Legendary Chronomancer Countess Anise Stance and we are fine.

Xenon.4537:

I seem to remember predicting this over a year ago but I can’t find my post… I’m not surprised in the least Anet did this. Look at their track record.

• Confusion was a mesmer thing
• Moa was a mesmer thing
• Torment was a necromancer thing on shroud 5 skill at first

I’m sure there’s more examples. This stuff is typical of RPGs. They introduce a mechanic or ability that is unique to one class, then later on they spread it around for balance reasons. It’s like entropy. Homogeneity among RPG classes always increases over time. Don’t be surprised when engineer gets alacrity on one of their elixirs. Don’t be surprised when warrior gets a quickness banner. Maybe a year from now chronomancer will be completely replaceable.

I don’t get this “Confusion was a mesmer thing”, when was confusion ever a mesmer only thing Engineer have allways had several confusions skills, Pistol #3, Toolkit #3 and bombkit #3 have all had confusion. Heck early release Engineers could do better confusion builds then a mesmer.

But I do agree it’s odd alacrity is given away, since that actually were something they sold the entire Chronomancer elite on. It is also sorta uncalled for, seeing as most revenant players says it won’t make ventari viabel

Torment were added simultanously to mesmer and necro https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2013-06-25#Profession_Skills

And when I talk about class identification in my previous post, I think more about war/rogue who put torment and confusion, about dh who put slow etc.
I’m just thinking every time they split mecanics into other profession, it reduce class identification.
Anyway I’m not against rev alacrity.

Honestly i’m all about spreading boons to everyone, also because i am kind of tired of being the alacrity quickness bot with no other purpose as a class.
Also alacrity and quickness done from a mesmer is so much better than a revenant that i don’t understand what you really fear? are you scared to not have your spot in raids anymore? that would be crazy!

Gibon.1705:

Im fine with rev getting alacrity in future when next wave of elite specs hits. Just make it properly, give him Legendary Chronomancer Countess Anise Stance and we are fine.

Yeah exactly, that’s sort of what I meant. Sorry.

I mean, they have the following presence-roles already:

• DD
• DoT
• Tank
• Heal
• Buff

Only, the game doesn’t actually support the idea of a role-switching class. At all. Nothing. I mean in theory they’d need to add a buff like Alacrity to Glint, but then that whole concept doesn’t work in the first place, plus it’s dreadfully boring (but even that could be ok, so long as it’s designed well, a role to relax a bit in before swapping back to something more stressful).

But as you said, there’s more to this. A Chronomancer-aspect in the future could make sense, focusing on Debuffing (Alacrity as their one big buff maybe), giving them yet another role. Ofc, no multi-role support like stats being added to other stats in stances, so it’s all for naught anyhow.