Guild Wars 2

Please remove the requirement for a target to be present to execute these skills. Also, what I hate is, people who are out of range and you try to cast a phantasm/clone thinking they are just in range, cool down gets applied and no clone/phantasm is casted.

It is more then extremelly frustrating trying to fight a Thief like this.

Just make them stand there until we take damage, upon taking damage, the first source of damage is targeted by the clones/phantams, then when they die, we can target our own targets.

Alternatively, give us some control over them, like combine the above with not having them do anything until we attack a target which they then also engauge upon our target.

Then the problem would be you will see every Mesmer running around with all 3 phantasms always spawned around them, it would be make it unfair, for say, the same Thief, to engage because you will have all the clones up already. They could make it so we could only spawn them when in combat, but I don’t see that happening either – because right now you can spawn them out of combat as long as the target gets into range, which is the way I prefer.

In conclusion, I think it’s fine right now as it is.

It would be a buff but it would be broken from the get go. Look at illusions as a warriors adrenaline. Do you think it would be fair for them to start a fight charged and ready to burst, because they can’t build it against a thief who is hiding? That’s what having illusions out means to a Mesmer.

Voodoo Tina.4180:

It would be a buff but it would be broken from the get go. Look at illusions as a warriors adrenaline. Do you think it would be fair for them to start a fight charged and ready to burst, because they can’t build it against a thief who is hiding? That’s what having illusions out means to a Mesmer.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Fury
:)

I’d be happy if they just left clones active as long as you’re in combat and then removed them all once combat ended, instead of linking clones to one specific enemy and having the clones pop when that enemy goes.

I hate facing multiple enemies, having a nice group of clones summoned, then the enemy you were targetting dies and all your clones are removed along with it, and you’re stuck still facing more enemies but now with no clones.

Link clones to the combat state (combat ends, clones die) and not a specific enemy where enemy dies = clones die and I’ll be much happier.

Dariya.9380:

Then the problem would be you will see every Mesmer running around with all 3 phantasms always spawned around them, it would be make it unfair, for say, the same Thief, to engage because you will have all the clones up already. They could make it so we could only spawn them when in combat, but I don’t see that happening either – because right now you can spawn them out of combat as long as the target gets into range, which is the way I prefer.

In conclusion, I think it’s fine right now as it is.

So its ok for a Necro to run around with 10 pets up, but not a Mesmer with 3 clones or Phantasms?

Also, you can’t spawn them if you cannot target the target but, you can die to it…..makes no sense.

Voodoo Tina.4180:

It would be a buff but it would be broken from the get go. Look at illusions as a warriors adrenaline. Do you think it would be fair for them to start a fight charged and ready to burst, because they can’t build it against a thief who is hiding? That’s what having illusions out means to a Mesmer.

For starters, Illusions can die before they get to a target to aoe’s and single target damage.

Secondly, clones and phantasms won’t chase a target indefiantely until they hit them, they only chase for roughly around 3 – 4 seconds and explode on the spot, so all one has to do is kite the illusions off, then attack us.

Also, what I hate is, people who are out of range and you try to cast a phantasm/clone thinking they are just in range, cool down applied and no clone/phantasm is casted.

I think changing the clones so that they can be spawned out of combat, with no target would cause real implications to balance. If this ever happened, expect some horrid nerf to another weapon to come shortly after.

Winds.3087:

Voodoo Tina.4180:

It would be a buff but it would be broken from the get go. Look at illusions as a warriors adrenaline. Do you think it would be fair for them to start a fight charged and ready to burst, because they can’t build it against a thief who is hiding? That’s what having illusions out means to a Mesmer.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Fury
:)

It’s a skill, taking up room on your bar, and it has a cool down. That’s not the same as making it automatic and permanent.

And still, the idea goes contrary to what illusions are. If you don’t like the class mechanic, you just don’t like the class.

We’d all like this. But figure things are balanced around how it works now and if you wanted things to work different, there’s be a lot of nerfs somewhere else. I think we’ve gotten used to it by now.

Necros have to give up all their slots for their pets. Its nice not having to do that.

Because there are skills tied to when an illusion is killed, I don’t think there should be adjustments made without thinking about how it affects those builds too.

How I fight thieves is with lots of toughness, they can’t burst me down quickly and 80% of them tuck tail after that if they don’t practically one shot you. Some are looking for easy targets, you aren’t fun when you don’t drop quickly. If you use a mantra build you can heal more often than other builds can. I am the anti-thief and you can be too. Go for some insta-spawn pets that cast quickly instead of phantasms, something like clone when you dodge (you do try to dodge the second you see an attack anyway I’d imagine) or the staff pets, they come out very quickly and you will have the armor buff available. The pet will chase the stealth target and point them out to you, that single pet can give you an evade buff to get past another round if you blow it up too.

Just telling you there are ways to counter thieves that may or may not be your build but I don’t fear them so I’m not convinced we need to change class core mechanics just for them. Also with Mantras, the armor increase gives me around 200 toughness while casting a mantra, handy to use while they are still invisible in case they jump you again. You can cast them while moving, of course. With condition removal mantra, auto attack twice even on targets behind me from a mantra and heals anytime I channel a mantra, pets are an afterthought to defend against a thief. Don’t forget, we can stealth too!

Taemek.1602:

Also, what I hate is, people who are out of range and you try to cast a phantasm/clone thinking they are just in range, cool down applied and no clone/phantasm is casted.

I would say this is MY only real issue with my mesmer. It is really annoying to have think you’re close enough and then just find out you’re not. Then no clone/illusion/phantom but still have to wait the cool down time. At least with the other skills it shows your green our red when you get to pick the range. Course I haven’t played a lot of other classes to see if they happens with some of their skills too. It is is only with the mesmer clones, then it should be fixed/changed. But if every class has skills like they lose the affect if not in range, then I guess it is fair…

Dariya.9380:

Then the problem would be you will see every Mesmer running around with all 3 phantasms always spawned around them, it would be make it unfair, for say, the same Thief, to engage because you will have all the clones up already. They could make it so we could only spawn them when in combat, but I don’t see that happening either – because right now you can spawn them out of combat as long as the target gets into range, which is the way I prefer.

In conclusion, I think it’s fine right now as it is.

My answer to this is the necromancer. They can have there minions out all the time and from what iv seen from my time playing they are much more bulky have steady/ more reliable dps and a unique ability for each, compared to a mesmer’s illusion which are made of tissue paper and slow dps.

Taemek.1602:

Also, what I hate is, people who are out of range and you try to cast a phantasm/clone thinking they are just in range, cool down applied and no clone/phantasm is casted.

Really, this is the only issue they need to fix with regards to Clones. I hate casting #3 Sword only for it to go on cooldown without a Clone because I’m just slightly out of range.

NatashaK.9418:

Necros have to give up all their slots for their pets. Its nice not having to do that.

You do realize Mesmers also give up skill slots for pets right? it is just that Mesmers pets take up weapon skill slots, which could be otherwise used for more DPS/CC/Condition based skills. However, changing this would utterly destroy the Mesmer class.

(I’m not trying to bash/flame you, merely pointing out that mesmer also gives up something for its pets)

I think Electro.4173’s idea of illusions persisting till out of combat is as close to how it should be with illusions, of course no matter what happens to illusions they are going to have to be nerfed and or tweaked.

This would keep the ramp up time, increase survivability and DPS allowing Mesmers to actually participate in content without being pigeon holed into the same build.

Yes, I play both classes. I know what both give up. I thought necros got the better deal in early beta and played necro exclusively for 1-2 BWE. (Because I really like how staff/marks work and hated the mesmer pets).

But ultimately, necro pets are terrible. And I’d rather have 10% more runspeed, pull people off walls, etc. (Or in mesmer’s case, feedback, null field, portal or blink).

There is a red bar that appears below a skill if the target is out of range. That said, this would be a terrible idea considering we’re strong as it is although I don’t think our summon skills should go on full cd when they fail I understand why they do.

It is a genral flaw we have.
Phantasem.
They do a kitten load of dmg IF you can get some out and keep them alive. If not they are less usfull a water drop in the desert. It is just sad that the two main mechanics of our class ( shatters and Illussions) contradict each other most of the time.
But it is also quit hard to work around it with out reworking the classes mechanics. Because both can work a shatter build and an build based on Illussion as long as the enemy is so kind and does not use AoE. Which all classes do .

LaronX.8079:

It is a genral flaw we have.
Phantasem.
They do a kitten load of dmg IF you can get some out and keep them alive. If not they are less usfull a water drop in the desert. It is just sad that the two main mechanics of our class ( shatters and Illussions) contradict each other most of the time.
But it is also quit hard to work around it with out reworking the classes mechanics. Because both can work a shatter build and an build based on Illussion as long as the enemy is so kind and does not use AoE. Which all classes do .

^This.

Plus the issue with being out of range when casting illusions only for them to go on cool down and no illuions is cast….

Only thing I would ask for is that when in combat my clones and phantasms would persist through the death of a mob. I don’t feel we should run around like a necro but when fighting groups of mobs it would be wonderful to keep up our clones and such throughout the battle .

just my 2 cents.

All skills of all classes afaik go on cd when cast out of range. It’s a good mechanic to punish bad players for mindlessly mashing keys, it should not be changed.

Taemek.1602:

Dariya.9380:

Then the problem would be you will see every Mesmer running around with all 3 phantasms always spawned around them, it would be make it unfair, for say, the same Thief, to engage because you will have all the clones up already. They could make it so we could only spawn them when in combat, but I don’t see that happening either – because right now you can spawn them out of combat as long as the target gets into range, which is the way I prefer.

In conclusion, I think it’s fine right now as it is.

So its ok for a Necro to run around with 10 pets up, but not a Mesmer with 3 clones or Phantasms?

Also, you can’t spawn them if you cannot target the target but, you can die to it…..makes no sense.

On the subject of minions, I think it’s worth noting most necros will tell you minions are absolutely horrid and more trouble then they are worth.

I would make clones and phantasms die at the end of combat, leave clones to die if their target dies but for crying out loud, let phantasms live after their target dies. clone skills have a short enough cooldown to be spammed. letting them live after their target dies would be kind of pointless because of their short cooldowns. However, phantasms act as a big source of damage for mesmers, and as such they should live after their target dies. Though i agree, having illusions out and running about after combat ends is a bit much, so im fine with all illusions dying at the end of combat, just let phantasms die when killed or when combat ends, not when their target dies.