i see a lot of people saying mesmer is not a good class … i think the true reason for this is the clones.
The clones in my opnion they are a waste. Why i think this.
Trash dmg – why the clones have no dmg? its so waste, they have zero dmg, they are a distraction, ok, but how the clone is call the atencion of the mob if i hit 1000…x more them a clone? What a hell Arena think when they put this trash dmg in clone?How a mob can be taunted to atk a clone? Never!
Condition damage – Oh ok theres is a use to Clones, lets make dmg exploding hin! Nut no i dont want kill my phantasm!!!!! so what now?
I rly like mesmer, i want keep playing with him, but i think clones are a waste. I think a solution can be make like this:
1 clone reduce your atk in 50%, but the clone hit 50% of your atk. you+clone=100%
2 clones, each clone hit 33.3%, and u will hit 66,6% less… 33.3%+33.3% clones u 33.3% = 100%
3 clones 25% each…
in this formula, the phantasm stay the same way. phantasm are goods! =D
this way i think is way is gona make a better illusion so what is the real guy?
What u guys think?
no there not. they are EXTREMLY useful in keeping the enemy off you and keeping you alive in solo based areas. You have to know how to use them properly.
- sharper images trait should be removed and just added to illusion’s by default. most mesmers are basically “stuck” with taking this trait for their builds, and it’d quell some of the complaining/questions regarding the lack of clone damage.
- phantasms are strong as it is, so increasing clone damage to 25% would be too much damage output especially when combined with phantasm builds. I’d prefer to see a slight increase in damage output available from the mesmer itself, and less from phantasms by default, but if traited for for phantasms, a tradeoff of the mesmer’s potential damage output to the phantasm instead.
- deceptive evasion should give clones a priority on targeting your target over the nearest, but if nothing is targeted, it picks nearest instead.
- to see the potential power of clones, try one of the clone factory builds that focus on either shatter damage or clone deathing for condition damage.
overall, mesmers are pretty strong if you know what you’re doing. it could use some small tweaks here and there, especially with the multitude of worthless trait “options” available, but i’m still quite happy with my mesmer so far.
<sigh> clones are not a waste. I hear this so much.
You are correct that you don’t always want to shatter your phantasms…that is why you have to actually THINK about when you use your shatters. You can’t just use shatter willy nilly, you should have a plan.
What I do in PvE is usually enter combat with mirror image and a weapon skill that makes a clone and then immediately mind wrack. I then bring out some phantasms, and they get in maybe 2 hits, then I shatter them which typically kills the mob and damages the ones around it.
For PvP you really have to consider that your shatters can often keep you alive. Your F4 shatter gives you (I believe) three seconds of invincibility if you have 3 illusions out. That’s a big deal! That can totally save you from a warrior or thief bursting in your face.
And the F2 shatter can put on 6 stacks of confusion with three illusions…if you’re facing an enemy with quickness that is whaling on you, that is going to hurt!
I think the key is that you have to recognize the temporary nature of illusions. They are not “pets” they are not supposed to just hang around and protect/DPS for you. They are meant to be constantly destroyed and recreated.
In closing, I know that it is possible to make a “phantasm” build that relies on summoning a bunch of phantasms and hopefully keeping them around to DPS for you long-term. But honestly, I think this is kind of a myopic idea. If someone has good AE’s, they will just wipe your phantasms and you will be SOL until your cooldown is up. I think it’s much better to mix and match clones and phantasms, and not be afraid to shatter a phantasm when the time is right.
Trash dmg – why the clones have no dmg? its so waste, they have zero dmg, they are a distraction, ok, but how the clone is call the atencion of the mob if i hit 1000…x more them a clone? What a hell Arena think when they put this trash dmg in clone?How a mob can be taunted to atk a clone? Never!
Mob “attention” isn’t based on damage. Who the mob attacks is based on several factors with some randomness thrown in just so they aren’t controllable/predictable.
I think it’s much better to mix and match clones and phantasms, and not be afraid to shatter a phantasm when the time is right.
i agree. learning situational timing on when or when not to shatter is key for mesmers.
about to eat burst damage with no immediate escape? low health and about to die with heal on CD? f4 distortion
running a clone factory shatter or condi build with all 3 illusions out and phantasm CD 1-3 seconds away from finishing? illusion’s focus target about to die? f1 or f2 for damage depending on situation.
running a phantasm build? throw ’em out there and shatter when necessary.
need to interrupt an enemy cast? f3 ’em in the face!
also, it’s relatively easy to pump out illusions if you build for it.
My clones that are a waste allowed me to solo a lvl 74 champion while I was lvl 68 or 69 last night. Clones are fine you just have to know how to use them.
The question is,
clones are make to make the enemy confuse, if i have 3 mirrors, and 2 with 0 dmg and another with 2k of dmg, guess who is the real one?
confusing your enemy is only one of few useful aspects of clones, and in pvp, their deceptive effectiveness scales with the skill of your opponent. good players will be able to quickly identify the mesmer amongst it’s clones, and the damage the player takes usually isn’t the indicator… it’s the mesmer’s movement, non-autocasting ability animations, user interface/call targeting, or lack of offhand that will most likely be the identifying factor for most players. the other useful aspects of clones as mentioned in previous posts: condition damage and shatter fodder
FYI, my clones in PvE at level 80 hit for maybe a couple hundred, maybe a little more? A hit. Not counting condition ticks like bleed. And even though I can be standing right next to the mob with my 2k blurred frenzy crits, it still targets my illusions first.
Mob AI doesn’t care as much about damage as you’d think.
Rarely do I see the mob AI go for a clone over myself (the mesmer). However the clones are still useful. I see the uses of clones and phantasms as follows:
Phantasms:
==========
1. DPS boost
2. Draws PvE mob agro which improves your survivability
3. Provide significant benefits like 50% dmg reduction, projectil absorbtion, condition removal etc (depending upon the clone)
4. Makes you think before you shatter them because of their inherent value
Clones:
==========
1. PvP/WvW Player distraction
2. Provides condition spam (both from main attack and from death with trait)
3. Shatter fodder
4. Not a significant direct damage source, nor an agro puller for PvE mobs
5. Can be used as a projectile shield if you position yourself opposite the clone from your foe
Different uses mostly and both valuable if you take advantage of them. If you think they are useless, then try playing without them and see how your experience changes (it will be for the worse, I guarantee it).
Part of me thinks that someone in ANet was thinking “hey, wanna see something funny? Watch this…”
You clones hit for a couple hundred at 80?
My sword clones are lucky to hit 20 dmg on the first two hits, and 10 dmg on the last of the chain. Just what are you feeding your clones?!
I’m going with “he had two clones attacking and the numbers overlapped”.
If you can’t read English, please do not reply to my post.
The question is,
clones are make to make the enemy confuse, if i have 3 mirrors, and 2 with 0 dmg and another with 2k of dmg, guess who is the real one?
I don’t think you’re grasping the temporary role that clones are supposed to play. You are not meant to summon a few clones and have your enemies fruitlessly beat on them while you stand 100 feet away gleefully laughing while you whale on them.
Clones are basically meant to make your enemy go:
“Huh? What the? Where is he? Oh, there he is!”
Basically, just a very temporary distraction, a few seconds, that’s it. Now you may think this is underpowered, but consider that a mesmer can probably pop around 6 clones in a 7-8 second span…and you can see why clones are the way they are. You are meant to just constantly make more, blink away, stealth, and do all matter of things to confound your enemies.
At level 15 I was able to kite and kill a veteran 19 mob simply by making clones and running around. Use a greatsword, keep the clones up using 2 and 4 abilities and run around while facing the target so your auto-attack dishes out pain.
In PvP, spawning a clone will cause the player to de-select you which is fantastical in single-target group situations (still sucks for AoE damage but oh well).
