Guild Wars 2

Guys, is this a bug and ANet trying to solve it or it`s fine?

Phantasms have bigger skills cd, dmg etc, but Clones still overwriting them!
So it`s impossible to play normally with scepter (1skill ruins all tactic and spam clones as hell) or GS (2skill the single way do any dmg at 1200 range and faster than 1skill but it kills all Phantasmal berserkers!).

So any ideas or rumors about that? Will ANet block clones spamming if u have 3 Phantasms until you shatter them?

As I understand it; if you have out three phantasms and pop a clone skill the clone will destroy one of your phantasms and take its place.

If you have 2 clones and 1 phantasm out and use a clone skill, that new clone will destroy one of the two existing clones before it will destroy a phantasm.

Are you just trying to maintain three phantasms? I don’t think I understand your concept fully.

Sardoni.8361:

As I understand it; if you have out three phantasms and pop a clone skill the clone will destroy one of your phantasms and take its place.

If you have 2 clones and 1 phantasm out and use a clone skill, that new clone will destroy one of the two existing clones before it will destroy a phantasm.

Are you just trying to maintain three phantasms? I don’t think I understand your concept fully.

Ok, i`ll give you example.
I use scepter and pistol.
Boss fight. I wanna summon 3 duelistis and then just autoattack and use 3 by cd.
Even if I summon 1,2,3 duelists without attacking with 1skill.
SO right after I use epic 1 skill it will summon clones and destroy my phantasms duelists.

Yes I agree there is some queue system and phantasms will be destroyed last, but if you wanna fight with 3 phantasms – it`s impossible if you have something like scepter 1 skill

For PVP it might be nice with traits for cripple/confusion/random conditions after killing illusions, but why this FORCE me to choose another weapon if I wanna play with scepter pve/pvp/www?

I believe this is working as intended. If you feel your style requires three phantasms, then you probably need to stow your weapon after using other abilities or switch to something else in order to avoid clone summoning.

The system is probably as good as it can be, they cannot (or should not) just globally block clones when three phantasms are up… it impacts other abilities too much (Decoy, the scepter block/#2, etc) as well as trait’d stuff like deceptive evasion and desperate decoy (or whatever they’re called, heh… not in game right now).

I believe this is currently working as intended. clones well never overwrite phantasms UNLESS there are 3 phantasms out. then it will overwrite the oldest phantasm. might just not be possible to run a phantasm build with scepter main hand…

Then your only option is to summon the duelists and then switch to a weapon that won’t automatically overwrite your phantasms. with the auto attack.

Phanx.4832:

I wanna summon 3 duelistis and then just autoattack and use 3 by cd.

This is already supported in the game, it is called a Necromancer, available on the create character screen.

(Seriously though, you’re essentially argueing that you want to not use the class-mechanic)
Oh and before someone now comments how boohoo, phantasms are so superior, then yes, you are nailing the problem there. They should not be superior to shattering, as shattering our clones and phantasms is our class mechanic. Needs fixing. But not of the “I wanna play a Necro-Mesmer”-type, rather actual re-balancing of the skills so our total power is fine despite using our class mechanic.

Carighan.6758:

Phanx.4832:

I wanna summon 3 duelistis and then just autoattack and use 3 by cd.

This is already supported in the game, it is called a Necromancer, available on the create character screen.

(Seriously though, you’re essentially argueing that you want to not use the class-mechanic)
Oh and before someone now comments how boohoo, phantasms are so superior, then yes, you are nailing the problem there. They should not be superior to shattering, as shattering our clones and phantasms is our class mechanic. Needs fixing. But not of the “I wanna play a Necro-Mesmer”-type, rather actual re-balancing of the skills so our total power is fine despite using our class mechanic.

if you have nothing to say – be quiet, ok?
seems you are one of this super skilled guys who troll every topic “all noobs, glass-cannons, l2p, learn class mechanic bla bla bla”
and talking about class mechanic makes you pathetic because everyone knows that if you need to do dmg and choose between using F1 or stay 3 duelists alive…

PS necro is pure summoner class? ok nice. c ya

and talking about class mechanic makes you pathetic because everyone knows that if you need do dmg and choose between using F1 or stay 3 duelists alive…

Phanx, that’s exactly what I said.
Mesmers are advertised as producing illusions to confuse enemies and dissolving them for “powerful effects”. I’m saying, well this needs rebalance, because right now Phantasms are strong, and Shatters too weak. Damage-wise there’s no reason I’d ever MW over leaving the Phantasm up (ofc the utility shatters can have their uses).

From this problem I extrapolate:

1. Buff damage of Shatters. Potentially, add damage to all shatters or add damaging secondary effects (Cry of Frustration could be more than 1 stack of Confusion baseline, could also have Blinding or Fumble added, Diversion could add Confusion stacks in high count since it’s single-target, Distortion could give you multiple stacks Retaliation). In other words, make Shattering far more desireable damage-wise, even before Traits.
2. As a follow-up from above, once buffed, it might be Phantasms need a nerf. I’d prefer a re-make to be single-use F&F Illusions which don’t factor into your shattering at all but also cannot be kept up indefinitely or stacked or anything, but the specifics of how these are resorted would be something else then. If they even need to, it could be that buffing Shatter-damage inherently fixed any worries with Phantasm-stacking because it would now be far from optimal to do so.
3. As a secondary follow-up, traits for both shattering and phantasms might need a re-examination as towards the gap between fully untraited and fully traited.

The point is, I’d fix this problem by fixing the root of it.
Not by masking over the symptoms by supporting the petclass-setup, which in itself is only a result of the class mechanic itself lacking. Hence the Necro comment.

(edit)
Out of context, are you the Phanx? From wowinterface / wowace?

Mesmer is a master of illusion. So I`m complaining about mesmers are not masters of illusions if they can`t totally controll illusions summoning process. I wanna summon clone – I summon clone. I wanna summon phantasm – I summon phantasm. But I can`t do this as I want. In the order that I want. That`s all.

Well Clones never overwriting Phantasms would mean that at 3 Phantasms, you cannot summon a clone, hence that’d be broken. :P

But realistically, the perma-phantasm problem is big. Our power should not be locked in the Phantasms. I’d move it out of there, which might require heavy nerfs to the Phantasms, which in turn might – or rather will – require adding utility to the non-utility Phantasms since it’d mean they can no longer justify themselves via their power.
But our raw power should not rely on shutting down 2 of our staple mechanics, Clones and Shatters.

Xfraze.1704:

Then your only option is to summon the duelists and then switch to a weapon that won’t automatically overwrite your phantasms. with the auto attack.

i don`t like that game force me to do so
my secondary weapon set is 1h sword/focus… so i forced to start melee fight vs close range aoe boss for expample? i wanna attack from distance with scepter, summon duelists… that`s all.
i know there are some ways to avoid illusion spamming with scepter 1skill, but imao it`s not right

Carighan.6758:

Well Clones never overwriting Phantasms would mean that at 3 Phantasms, you cannot summon a clone, hence that’d be broken. :P

But realistically, the perma-phantasm problem is big. Our power should not be locked in the Phantasms. I’d move it out of there, which might require heavy nerfs to the Phantasms, which in turn might – or rather will – require adding utility to the non-utility Phantasms since it’d mean they can no longer justify themselves via their power.
But our raw power should not rely on shutting down 2 of our staple mechanics, Clones and Shatters.

Disagree.
I tested this last night. If you summon phantasm first, then clone, then another clone, then third clone – third clone destroy phantasm couse he was first. So there is rotation like older/younger only but without priority clone/phantasm

Huh? That should not happen, that is clearly a bug.
What should happen is this:

1. Phantasm summoned.
   Illusion 1 = Phantasm 1.
2. Clone summoned.
   Illusion 1 = Phantasm 1,
   Illusion 2 = Clone 1
3. Clone summoned.
   Illusion 1 = Phantasm 1,
   Illusion 2 = Clone 1,
   Illusion 3 = Clone 2
4. Clone summoned. Oldest non-Phantasm entity is replaced, so available, if not, oldest Phantasm is replaced.
   Illusion 1 = Phantasm 1,
   Illusion 2 = Clone 3,
   Illusion 3 = Clone 2

If it’s killing your phantasm despite Clones being up, report it. That’s exactly the stuff they did away with in late beta, or should have. :S

So I can have 2 phantasms continuously and 1 clone trillion times replaced with scepter 1skill, right?

Gonna test it again today…

Phanx.4832:

So I can have 2 phantasms continuously and 1 clone trillion times replaced with scepter 1skill, right?

Gonna test it again today…

Yes, this is how it has worked for me since the head start weekend.

Phanx.4832:

So I can have 2 phantasms continuously and 1 clone trillion times replaced with scepter 1skill, right?

Gonna test it again today…

That’s what should be happening phanx and if it’s not, then it’s a bug and needs to be fixed.

U can’t have 3 Phantasm and auto attack with a scepter.. the scepter will always make the ilusion.. no materr what..
IF u have 3 phantasm.. ull lose 1 and get 1 clone.. and then that 1 clone will keep overwritting himself.. and ull have only 2 phantams and 1 clone.. but u wont lose more than 1 phantasm.. unless u use the skill that summons 2 clones at once..
if u wanna autoattack and not lose phantasm.. use a weapon that doesnt summon clones on attack.

Shatter more often and stop being lazy.

I don’t use the scepter as much anymore (GS/Sword/Pistol now), but I loved the way they handled the mechanic. My rotation with the scepter, often based on the situation, would involve pulling out 2 phantasms + 1 clone. Then using the scepter, I would consistently kill/recreate the clone. If a phantasm went down, I’d pull out another. This had great synergy with Debilitating Dissipation in that every time a new clone was generated (“killing” the existing clone), conditions would drop on any enemies near the target (AOE conditions). This helped spread conditions just as good if not better than winds of chaos on staff.

I think it all depends on your playing style and how you trait your class. The scepter as a weapon is build for pumping out clones and was designed more for shatter builds and condition building. Also, the trait crippling dissipation works nice with this if you’re trying to kite.

If the OP is looking for more of a phantasm build, then I would suggest a different weapon. (maybe sword & pistol/sword and staff).