Guild Wars 2

The idea behind this build is to essentially do the same things a power/support PVE build does but with condi.

All utilities and OHs are the same as power build for the same reasons you take them in a power build.

Main differences are that its a clone/shatter build instead of a phant build. So instead of chrono runes you’ll get your extra haste to share from http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Seize_the_Moment
You dont need Improved Alacrity because you’re gaining lots of personal alacrity from shattering so often; therefore I take http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionary_Reversion
Maim the Disillusioned and Malicious Sorcery should be obvious changes in this build.

Here is where I need input. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chaotic_Persistence in Chaos says you gain condi AND boon duration per boon you have, but I cant find it listing a cap anywhere, which means in a raid environment we’re talking 20-30% for both!

The only damaging condis in this are confusion and torment. Confusion has a caked in 33%, so I choose torment runes. That with Chaotic Persistence means we can afford to take more Sinister vs all Viper. The appropriate ratio for that I can only guess however.

I took Sigil of Malice and Sigil of Torment. Most condi builds take Geomancy or Earth but with my condi duration stacked so heavily for Torment this seemed better.

I took a combination of condi duration food and boon duration utility, both condi obvs.

This is the build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhQQNAr+dncfCFohlfC+fCUrhlejC9G6oVwMAOtMqeUX1ZF-ThhbABl9AA9Crp8Lt9HAQJIcnEASV/hUALK3C-e

Keep in mind the updates to scepter that are not yet shown in this editor.

Not saying its better than power or anything like that. I just like making new builds.
I think the added benefit of this condi is that its not limited by condi fields like typical condis. I think it could shine on a boss that moves around a ton like VG, maybe some on Gors, prolly poor on Sab but.. most condi isnt ideal there anyway. Being a ranged weapon also has its advantages for dps uptime (ex: green circles).

Tanking gets this awesome trait http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionary_Defense. Just swap out as much jewelry as you need from Sinister to Rabid (much cheaper and easier than commander stuff), and you even get a conversion from http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chaotic_Transference. Scepter 2 is also a quick block on a short CD thats a DPS inc when blocking.

Thoughts, opinions?

On paper build looks nice, but confusion and torment works terrible in pve, because if target is not moving or doing anything they have crapy damage.

So I went and ran the numbers for this build. With some generous assumptions (F1 and F2 4 clone shatters instantly off cooldown and maintaining 10 stacks of torment permanently from the block), you’ll be able to sustain about 30 stacks of torment. With 2500 condition damage, this will do 7.7k dps on a constantly moving target.

7.7k dps is actually semi-decent from a Mesmer perspective. It’s certainly not good, but it’s not awful. Unfortunately, there are some major problems.

First, you’re not using chrono runes or any other sort of boon duration enhancer. This will ruin your quickness uptime, and that’s unacceptable. If you want to use this build, you absolutely must use chrono runes, no exceptions.

Secondly, 7.7k dps is on a constantly moving target. VG is by far the most mobile boss, and it doesn’t move constantly. It stops to attack and you’re not kiting it constantly; you kite it to the edge of the next wedge and then wait there. At best, I’d estimate that it’s moving 50% of the time, dropping your dps to about 5700 on VG, lower on gorse and much lower on sabetha.

Thirdly, my calculations assumed permanent alacrity. If you’re not taking improved alacrity, you most likely won’t actually have it permanently. This will not only impact your dps, but will impact the recycle time on your buffing rotation.

Ultimately, you could do this type of build as long as you used chrono runes. You would be similarly effective compared to a more standard build as long as you kept shield phantasms up for their buffing capabilities. The dps would be awful on gorse and sabetha though, and you’d have a 15-25 second buildup time of low dps every single time you did your buff rotation or a phase change happened (25 second side if you’re tanking).

I did run a similar build some time ago but with “shattered strength” in a (casual) group that could not provide might. Yes, my personal DPS is ridiculously low, but I do provide quite a bit of boons.

Fay.2357:

So I went and ran the numbers for this build. With some generous assumptions (F1 and F2 4 clone shatters instantly off cooldown and maintaining 10 stacks of torment permanently from the block), you’ll be able to sustain about 30 stacks of torment. With 2500 condition damage, this will do 7.7k dps on a constantly moving target.

7.7k dps is actually semi-decent from a Mesmer perspective. It’s certainly not good, but it’s not awful. Unfortunately, there are some major problems.

First, you’re not using chrono runes or any other sort of boon duration enhancer. This will ruin your quickness uptime, and that’s unacceptable. If you want to use this build, you absolutely must use chrono runes, no exceptions.

As explained, you gain haste from shattering.
Also, the build IS running boon duration in the form of Chaotic Persistence. Thats 20-30% boon and condi duration in a raid. Most likely on the high end once the ball gets rolling. Also packed 10% boon dura utility and 20% condi dura food.

Secondly, 7.7k dps is on a constantly moving target. VG is by far the most mobile boss, and it doesn’t move constantly. It stops to attack and you’re not kiting it constantly; you kite it to the edge of the next wedge and then wait there. At best, I’d estimate that it’s moving 50% of the time, dropping your dps to about 5700 on VG, lower on gorse and much lower on sabetha.

Def a good point. I knew the limitations, was mostly curious if being able to take more Sinister vs Viper like most condi builds would help offset the pve negatives of these specific condis. I appreciate you trying to run some numbers though.

Thirdly, my calculations assumed permanent alacrity. If you’re not taking improved alacrity, you most likely won’t actually have it permanently. This will not only impact your dps, but will impact the recycle time on your buffing rotation.

As explained, you gain alacrity from spamming your shatters. The build compensates not having chrono runes and improved alacrity by using F1-F5 on CD.
By not doing those things, its not even really a condi build since all those skills give alacrity, haste, tons of other boons which amp both your duras and apply both of your condis.

Ultimately, you could do this type of build as long as you used chrono runes. You would be similarly effective compared to a more standard build as long as you kept shield phantasms up for their buffing capabilities. The dps would be awful on gorse and sabetha though, and you’d have a 15-25 second buildup time of low dps every single time you did your buff rotation or a phase change happened (25 second side if you’re tanking).

Im not sure where you’re getting that buildup time from. It would take a couple seconds to constantly build up and use a shatter. Unless you’re talking about something else.

If you used chrono runes, it would defeat the point of even trying to make a condi build. Considering the flaws in the setup you tested, I’d wager at least a couple extra K in your projected dps, but I dont disagree with how well it’d perform on each boss. Appreciate the analysis.

You’ve got some fantasy-land predictions for boon duration from chaotic persistence. 20%-30% means 7-10 boons. You’ll usually have might, quickness, and fury. You’ll sometimes have swiftness, sometimes regen, rarely stab, rarely prot. Vigor, resistance, retal, and aegis will all be almost never on you. At the absolute maximum, you’ll have 7 boons for 21%, but the vast majority of the time you’ll be at 3-4 boons for 12% maximum.

Quickness from shattering is solid, but it’s not easy to maximize the share from it due to how the rotation works. It is possible though, just more difficult.

Unless you’ve actually run this and tested it out, I doubt you’ll find that it’s as easy to keep 100% alacrity as you think it will be. Shatters are only 3s for a full 4-clone shatter, it’s not that much.

Buildup time is simple and inherent to condies. You don’t walk into a fight and dump truck 30 stacks of torment. It takes time to do that. Since each stack lasts 12 seconds, it’ll be a minimum of 12 seconds before you can hit your maximum potential. Given the ~12 seconds to do a full alacrity buffing combo, that adds another 8-10 seconds to your total buildup time since you’re not stacking clones and shattering when you’re dropping wells. Just those alone gets you to 22ish seconds of buildup time. Any deviation from absolute perfect rotations and setup will increase that time, easily pushing you above 25 seconds.

Maybe a little… but Might, Fury, Quickness always, swiftness is nothing from me but I see it. Regen I see almost constantly, which with traits has a CD to give you prot, and if you have a guardian you’ll have that perma anyway in addition to some random bouts of retal and aegis. Every shatter also gives you stab. Cont Split gives resistance, only for that shatter but.. its an extra one you def didnt have before right as you split so its nothing to scoff at. I was thinking more like 7-9 at any given time which is 21-27; I dont think thats really a ‘fantasy’.

I get what you’re saying about the ramp up now, you meant the ramp up every condi has to do. I guess the application of the condis are a bit less ‘bursty’ in their application than other condi builds. But I figure that was more because my utility bar is covered in support wells instead of condi fields/kits and such.