Guild Wars 2

Is it me, or is condi mesmer pretty lame now in PvP? Ever since Maim the Disillusioned was nerfed by 50%* when HoT was released, the class can’t compete at all anymore.

*Thanks to other forum users for recently alerting me to this disappointing nerf. I had noticed that post-patch the DPS had a huge decrease but I had no idea why because the MtD nerf slipped past me.

ANet, can you make condi mesmer viable again? What was the point of the MtD nerf? This was a totally legit spec and now its bottom-tier.

<——honest guard/necro main with no mesmer bias. Feel free to educate me if I’m wrong.

Yes, glad to see a non-mesmer main noticing this without bias.

Even alacrity and illusion generation traits from Chrono don’t make up for it – because you have to drop either Duelling (loss of Blinding Dissipation and dps through DE) or Chaos (loss of Chaotic Persistence, Chaotic Transference among other defensive options).
If you take Chrono you basically end up having to spam shatters in order to apply a mediocre amount of torment and a too short duration of confusion.

The only benefit now is the ability to use tormenting runes and have +25% movement speed, but with MtD as it is it isn’t really a game changer.

I am in favour of adding a single stack of torment baseline to Cry of Frustration – so it becomes a dedicated condition “burst” button and justify the cool down of F2 compared with F1. But there are plenty of other suggestions in this forum from others to remedy the problem, ranging from things like giving us taunt somewhere (forced movement and skill use), to buffing burning on staff auto attack and torch skills, to giving a trait that buffs torment damage to moving targets, to restoring a confusion on crit trait in duelling and so on.

Meh, I don’t know.

I mean if you do that, you’d have the issue that most Mesmers only have 3 viable shatter options (damage, interrupt, defense). Chrono four, although not really as usually Time Split takes precedence because it doubles all other options.

I’d rather see:

• F1: Damage, both power and condition based. Works for power, works for condi, works for hybrid, as scaling is the primary factor of its damage, not base power.
• F2: Debuff. Cripple + Slow + something else. Ideally changes with number of illusions, shatter 0 and it’s cripple, shatter 1 it’s cripple + slow, etc.
• F3: Interrupt. At 3 illusions should just stun flat out.
• F4: Defence, as now.

Anyhow even that is just a meh solution, I don’t like shatters as a class mechanic, I think clone/phantasm generation should be the class bar as unlike shatters, it is context-free.

Condi Mesmer thread.
Thx for summoning me! Speaker of Truth! Lets keep condi mesmers not viable cuz it’s as bad for game as ministrel amulet, boring dumb and promotes no skill=reward playstyle that destroys and sucks out every bit of fun. Lets hope there will be no 2nd comming from burnguards and no 1st comming from condi mesmers. Players will sleep more soundly that way.

Mefiq.7039:

Condi Mesmer thread.
Thx for summoning me! Speaker of Truth! Lets keep condi mesmers not viable cuz it’s as bad for game as ministrel amulet, boring dumb and promotes no skill=reward playstyle that destroys and sucks out every bit of fun. Lets hope there will be no 2nd comming from burnguards and no 1st comming from condi mesmers. Players will sleep more soundly that way.

Yeah, it makes running no cleanse full glass waaaaay easier. Scrubs don’t want to have to adapt to kittene.

There is cleanse and there is constantly adding another condi stacks.
Same thing burnguards were saying about “just CLEANSE”. Trick is fact that this is not oldschool condi necro that droped condi bomb on you and then throwed more “lesser” condis to make sure you wont cleanse them. Old condi was way more skillful. You had to pay attention to enemy evades and cleanses. NOW ITS ENEMY that needs to pay attention to condis cuz its so easy to apply and so hard to actualy negate.
Same kitten over and over in this forum, burnguards said thier build is “balanced” while stacking everlasting burns, you can cleanse once, twice, yet in the end you will get burned and you will feel the power. Same goes for other braindead condi builds.
Burn Engis are 1 trick ponny to counter cuz they DROP 1 insane stack then they have to wait for next powerspike, they cant drop 3 burns every 3 sec like burnguard.
ANd there goes Mesmer… Scepter + Torch + Staff allows you to constantly apply conditions, there is no “SUDDEN BURST” but there is also no no way to actualy cleanse everysingle condition this dumb build can drop on enemy.

Speaking things like “you should run with shout guard or shoutbow in team” is also not new. I love when everyone! Even devs! Expect everyone to run with condi cleansing teammates only cuz they play broken kitten and easy builds like condi.

Thats why Condi mesmer should never get buffed, its bad for already sick pvp gametype. God kitten i remember days that out of 10 teams i saw in spvp 9 were 80% condi based + thief or shoutguard, everyone wants to abuse condis for easy wins and i cant blame you- mesmers, that you also want to have 1 click win button like guards, but sorry. Spvp got enough of this.

Mefiq.7039:

There is cleanse and there is constantly adding another condi stacks.
Same thing burnguards were saying about “just CLEANSE”. Trick is fact that this is not oldschool condi necro that droped condi bomb on you and then throwed more “lesser” condis to make sure you wont cleanse them. Old condi was way more skillful. You had to pay attention to enemy evades and cleanses. NOW ITS ENEMY that needs to pay attention to condis cuz its so easy to apply and so hard to actualy negate.
Same kitten over and over in this forum, burnguards said thier build is “balanced” while stacking everlasting burns, you can cleanse once, twice, yet in the end you will get burned and you will feel the power. Same goes for other braindead condi builds.
Burn Engis are 1 trick ponny to counter cuz they DROP 1 insane stack then they have to wait for next powerspike, they cant drop 3 burns every 3 sec like burnguard.
ANd there goes Mesmer… Scepter + Torch + Staff allows you to constantly apply conditions, there is no “SUDDEN BURST” but there is also no no way to actualy cleanse everysingle condition this dumb build can drop on enemy.

Speaking things like “you should run with shout guard or shoutbow in team” is also not new. I love when everyone! Even devs! Expect everyone to run with condi cleansing teammates only cuz they play broken kitten and easy builds like condi.

Thats why Condi mesmer should never get buffed, its bad for already sick pvp gametype. God kitten i remember days that out of 10 teams i saw in spvp 9 were 80% condi based + thief or shoutguard, everyone wants to abuse condis for easy wins and i cant blame you- mesmers, that you also want to have 1 click win button like guards, but sorry. Spvp got enough of this.

Guild wars has condis. They’re not going anywhere.

So…go play another game maybe?

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Mefiq.7039:

There is cleanse and there is constantly adding another condi stacks.
Same thing burnguards were saying about “just CLEANSE”. Trick is fact that this is not oldschool condi necro that droped condi bomb on you and then throwed more “lesser” condis to make sure you wont cleanse them. Old condi was way more skillful. You had to pay attention to enemy evades and cleanses. NOW ITS ENEMY that needs to pay attention to condis cuz its so easy to apply and so hard to actualy negate.
Same kitten over and over in this forum, burnguards said thier build is “balanced” while stacking everlasting burns, you can cleanse once, twice, yet in the end you will get burned and you will feel the power. Same goes for other braindead condi builds.
Burn Engis are 1 trick ponny to counter cuz they DROP 1 insane stack then they have to wait for next powerspike, they cant drop 3 burns every 3 sec like burnguard.
ANd there goes Mesmer… Scepter + Torch + Staff allows you to constantly apply conditions, there is no “SUDDEN BURST” but there is also no no way to actualy cleanse everysingle condition this dumb build can drop on enemy.

Speaking things like “you should run with shout guard or shoutbow in team” is also not new. I love when everyone! Even devs! Expect everyone to run with condi cleansing teammates only cuz they play broken kitten and easy builds like condi.

Thats why Condi mesmer should never get buffed, its bad for already sick pvp gametype. God kitten i remember days that out of 10 teams i saw in spvp 9 were 80% condi based + thief or shoutguard, everyone wants to abuse condis for easy wins and i cant blame you- mesmers, that you also want to have 1 click win button like guards, but sorry. Spvp got enough of this.

Guild wars has condis. They’re not going anywhere.

So…go play another game maybe?

Rofl,

It’s like “Mitigate that incoming power burst with endure pain/invuln”,
“but wait, they can burst again before my CD’s are up!”
“Bah, Power bursts can be applied to regularly, such cancer, much wow.”

Condi Mesmer has changed dramatically since the trait changes. There’s no clone death application anymore, no weakness and cripple to shut someone down. It’s hardly what you seem to think it is for Mesmer nowadays.

Mefiq.7039:

Condi Mesmer thread.
Thx for summoning me! Speaker of Truth! Lets keep condi mesmers not viable cuz it’s as bad for game as ministrel amulet, boring dumb and promotes no skill=reward playstyle that destroys and sucks out every bit of fun. Lets hope there will be no 2nd comming from burnguards and no 1st comming from condi mesmers. Players will sleep more soundly that way.

Tl;dr: I don’t like learning how to play and get better, so I complain on the forums in the hopes that Anet nerfs the things that kill me.

The funny thing is, even in their nerfed state, you probably still get dumpstered by condie mesmers.

^^ There is no need to play better when playing condi is soooo easy. Its not like i can do direct dmg, go stealth and watch my enemy die while trying to fins/cleave me.
Add 2 things:
Stealth- counter play: Moving around and cleaving
Conf + Torment stacks: Cleanse or not moving around and cleaving.

Add this both and what you get? Condi mesmer, spec that will lock you down unless you bring 10000000000000000 condi cleanses or teammates with shouts.

""""
Rofl,

It’s like “Mitigate that incoming power burst with endure pain/invuln”,
“but wait, they can burst again before my CD’s are up!”
“Bah, Power bursts can be applied to regularly, such cancer, much wow.”

"""
You can Weakness to lessen direct dmg hard there are kittenton of spells that BLOCK direct dmg.

What we get vs condis? Berserk stance? some cleanses? I love when you all seem to think its ok and “skillful” way of playing this game when you run condi builds… If it was playstyle like old good necro then ok, i would say that YES it’s rly hard yet rewarding if played right. What you want is buff for already nobrain build that relays only on spamming same spells over and over again and restealthing, no mather of what enemy, what point, and where doing same thing OVER AND OVER AND OVER again. Fun and skillfull. I like devs that try to kill it before it grows. Confusion and Torment should be punishing dmg but not main source of dmg. Shutting down almost every melee class with 1 brainless build should never be alowed.

Mefiq.7039:

^^ There is no need to play better when playing condi is soooo easy. Its not like i can do direct dmg, go stealth and watch my enemy die while trying to fins/cleave me.
Add 2 things:
Stealth- counter play: Moving around and cleaving
Conf + Torment stacks: Cleanse or not moving around and cleaving.

Add this both and what you get? Condi mesmer, spec that will lock you down unless you bring 10000000000000000 condi cleanses or teammates with shouts.

""""
Rofl,

It’s like “Mitigate that incoming power burst with endure pain/invuln”,
“but wait, they can burst again before my CD’s are up!”
“Bah, Power bursts can be applied to regularly, such cancer, much wow.”

"""
You can Weakness to lessen direct dmg hard there are kittenton of spells that BLOCK direct dmg.

What we get vs condis? Berserk stance? some cleanses? I love when you all seem to think its ok and “skillful” way of playing this game when you run condi builds… If it was playstyle like old good necro then ok, i would say that YES it’s rly hard yet rewarding if played right. What you want is buff for already nobrain build that relays only on spamming same spells over and over again and restealthing, no mather of what enemy, what point, and where doing same thing OVER AND OVER AND OVER again. Fun and skillfull. I like devs that try to kill it before it grows. Confusion and Torment should be punishing dmg but not main source of dmg. Shutting down almost every melee class with 1 brainless build should never be alowed.

I don’t have any issues vs condie mesmers. Have you considered the possibility that you simply have a lot to learn?

…of course you haven’t.

Mefiq.7039:

^^ There is no need to play better when playing condi is soooo easy. Its not like i can do direct dmg, go stealth and watch my enemy die while trying to fins/cleave me.
Add 2 things:
Stealth- counter play: Moving around and cleaving
Conf + Torment stacks: Cleanse or not moving around and cleaving.

Add this both and what you get? Condi mesmer, spec that will lock you down unless you bring 10000000000000000 condi cleanses or teammates with shouts.

""""
Rofl,

It’s like “Mitigate that incoming power burst with endure pain/invuln”,
“but wait, they can burst again before my CD’s are up!”
“Bah, Power bursts can be applied to regularly, such cancer, much wow.”

"""
You can Weakness to lessen direct dmg hard there are kittenton of spells that BLOCK direct dmg.

What we get vs condis? Berserk stance? some cleanses? I love when you all seem to think its ok and “skillful” way of playing this game when you run condi builds… If it was playstyle like old good necro then ok, i would say that YES it’s rly hard yet rewarding if played right. What you want is buff for already nobrain build that relays only on spamming same spells over and over again and restealthing, no mather of what enemy, what point, and where doing same thing OVER AND OVER AND OVER again. Fun and skillfull. I like devs that try to kill it before it grows. Confusion and Torment should be punishing dmg but not main source of dmg. Shutting down almost every melee class with 1 brainless build should never be alowed.

Running zero condi cleanse on my mesmer, I disengage and stop using skills. If suffering heavy torment pressure, I’ll stop moving. I can stealth and eat a proc of confusion damage for something like MI. The duration on both confusion and torment from Mesmer is incredibly low -_-u

For Warrior I’ll proc zerker stance to stop the incoming stacks from happening. If I’m suffering a condi burst, sig heal procs resistance and I’m free to go ham, or disengage without a care.

Assuming I don’t avoid the burst to begin with.

Now, what’d happen if I actually ran condi cleanse ;D

@Fay.2357 i never said i had problems with condi mesmers, but just cuz you wont die from it it doesnt mean its healthy build for game

@Ross Biddle.2367 AND WE HAVE A WINNER!!! THATS WHAT IM TRYING TO TELL YOU O GREAT PLAYERS, The truth has spoken! You go vs Condi mesmer? SORRY DUDE you must run or die… Stealth and Disengage, pop your healing signed and run away.

Now think about objectives that you need to defend/assault in conquest and add 1 build that can render you useless/force you to run what we get? Trebs that need to be contested 2/3 vs 1 mesmer(that will portal remake it instantly) Ability to force more than 1 dude to defend lord vs 1 mesmer(making mesmer team win 4v3).
I know you guys will always say “cant beat it! Run! Disengage!” butthere are times When you are FORCED to fight this dumb build and if you are melee class then RIP.

Mefiq.7039:

@Fay.2357 i never said i had problems with condi mesmers, but just cuz you wont die from it it doesnt mean its healthy build for game

“Hey, this setup is completely unproblematic to counter and increases diversity by virtue of being a entirely new type of build.” -> “Break its legs!”

Let me guess. You’re in the “such a low skill spec, way too good to be so braindead to play, zomg I’m so pro with my power build and have to work so hard and everything is poison, and these condi people just get all the toys”? Warrior, ideally? Thief also works, but I would guess Warrior, they’re the ones usually the most hurt when someone suggests zerker might not be the holy grail of PvP prowess.

Really… this isn’t the game you want to play. This game has more than one spec. And this game has specs which counter other specs. Accept that your zerker spec isn’t the god of PvP, and that condi is a very viable playstyle, trading initiative for the ability to defend while dealing damage.
It’s hardly the first game to do this, btw.

Find a game built more around direct attack PvP if you enjoy that. MOBAs come to mind (mostly) and ofc fighting games. Those exist and have very active communities. Not every game has to be for everyone.

(Perspective, for full disclosure: Power Shatter Chronomancer)

A decent player will kill the condi mesmer before the condi mesmer can hope to kill him.
If that decent player can’t, he just has to runaway and reset the fight. Mesmers aren’t great at chasing.
But, hey, you have to be at least “decent”. Not even good as a player. I assume not everyone is decent in this game.

@Carighan.6758 just cuz i can run away from it doesnt mean its not problematic, why you call build that force almost every enemy to running and disengaging ok.
If you say kitten about counter builds then what is counter build for condi mesmer asumming he fights vs META builds and both players are same skill lvl. What you will see is that adding condi dmg to stealth is gamebreaking, condi thief is total garbage and i hope it will stay this way, same should be mesmer. Any class that have perfect offence(dmg that as we stated before cannot be perfectly countered, will always deal some dmg) and perfect defence(godmodes/stealth/blink[where blink can ofc force enemy to move his kitten to you dealing even more dmg from torment]) There is only 1 thing that rly kills mesmers, and killed older version of powerbuild mesmers, and its condi dmg. Condi counter condi so lets play condi so we win vs condi and other build wont matter.

And yes, any build that is build around dealing direct dmg is way healthier and way better for skilled play. You need to pay attention, be up and personal vs your enemy, trading dmg here and there. Smart ppl will win worse will lose. But no, we can always go easy buttonsmasher condi builds cuz not everyone is smart, we need something for dumb ppl. And thats why pvp is slowy dying, new players see “hard” pvp with “easy ways to play”, or we say GW2 pvp is great cuz its challenging or we say “hey, look, there are 5 aoe condi spells, drop them on enemy and watch them die.”

There is 5v5 stack with proper teambuild and there is SOLOQ. In soloQ builds like burnguards and Condimesmer happen to outright autowin only cuz enemy doesnt have enough cleanse teamwise. If Devs decided that, HEY MESMERS! Every 3rd game you will have 100%lose chance so YOU better learn other classes or get rekt. You would make kittenstorm there. I would see letter to devs staying that "100% lose every 3rd match is too much! that its not "skilled"" Yet you guys still defend condi mesmer for the sake of diversity builds. OK Get you condi mesmer but make it work like Burn Engi or Necro, Skill play over dumb drop condi every sec like dumbGuard. I hope you guys get Condispike dmg that when used right will decimate enemies, but there should be always 2 players paying attention! Mr. MEsmer needs to watch Enemy and enemy needs to watch Mesmer. Not same way COndi mesmers and burnguards works. “I dont care i just spam same kitten over and over till my enemy is dead” Thats JUST DUMB and NOT HEALTHY for PVP, when 1 player needs to play well and other just need to roll his face over keyboard.

Condi application can be avoided (block, blind, evade, invuln, etc) exactly the same way as power damage.

Part of this perceived fallacy that condi builds are “cancer/cheese/skilless” and power builds are “honourable/skilled” is down to the animations of skills that apply any given type of damage.

Look at Eviscerate – big animation, big damage
Now look at Scepter block – small animation, big damage (over time)

If you get hit by the eviscerate, you eat all the damage in one go. If you get hit by the scepter block you’ve still got time to cleanse the damage.

Players don’t equate small, seemingly insignificant animations with the ability to land big damage over time – and tend to ignore the smaller animations unless they are experienced enough to know the consequences.

But equally there are direct damage skills that have insignificant or less noticeable animations. Mesmer shatters for example are equally instant on power and condi builds – and I’d argue it is harder to play a condi mesmer successfully at the moment compared to a power mesmer.

For the record I was a die hard power shatter mesmer for well over a year in 2014 and utterly hated condi builds. In addition to this I don’t use Scepter or Chaos in my condi build anyway, but I accept that handicap in efficiency for the sake of fun.

I am also against passive procs – ie perplexity runes that proc confusion if you get hit, rewarding bad play.

However condi application through shatters is entirely active and easily avoided/countered, as is condi application through weapon/utility skills.

The only argument I could accept is passive application through pets – but I argue that scepter and staff clones apply negligable conditions anyway and phantasms such as iDuelist have equally obvious visual/audio cues as things like Eviscerate – so the bulk of damage in condi mesmer builds is active or easy to notice, especially since clone death traits were deleted (Scepter 2, 3, staff aa, shatters, phantasms).

Mefiq.7039:

@Fay.2357 i never said i had problems with condi mesmers, but just cuz you wont die from it it doesnt mean its healthy build for game

Idk, you sound pretty mad about it. I’m betting you get stomped every time you encounter one.

Mefiq.7039:

If you say kitten about counter builds then what is counter build for condi mesmer asumming he fights vs META builds and both players are same skill lvl.

Wait, let me get this straight:

• You are playing a meta buils?
• You are fighting someone in a spec which is not meta, a condition setup?
• That setup – apparently, this being your issue – counters your setup?

Then… why continue playing that build? Why not switch to a counter-counter build? After all, that is how it works. Builds are “meta” until someone finds a counter to them, then the meta shifts as counter-counters are introduced while the previous counter first goes meta and then out of it as the counter-counter is established.

That’s exactly how MMOs keep their balance in perpetual flux so as to prevent it going stale, actually.

Mefiq.7039:

And yes, any build that is build around dealing direct dmg is way healthier and way better for skilled play. You need to pay attention, be up and personal vs your enemy, trading dmg here and there. Smart ppl will win worse will lose. But no, we can always go easy buttonsmasher condi builds cuz not everyone is smart, we need something for dumb ppl. And thats why pvp is slowy dying, new players see “hard” pvp with “easy ways to play”, or we say GW2 pvp is great cuz its challenging or we say “hey, look, there are 5 aoe condi spells, drop them on enemy and watch them die.”

Why are direct damage builds healthier for a skilled gameplay? You present it as if it were a proven fact, but well, then cite the proof.

It seems that there is a psychological effect of losing to condi’s because you may have had many soft cc’s and little red boxes on you at the time of downed, but the truth is that condi’s actually offer more counterplay than power (which is why they aren’t used in tournaments). Like power damage, you can block, blind or, evade the initial condi application, in addition to personal and AOE team cleansing. In fact, condi mesmer arguably has the most counterplay of any condi build because both of it’s damaging condi’s can be mitigated simply by paying attention: If you have 12 stacks of torment, stop moving. If you have 12 stacks of confusion, stop [auto] attacking. That is my (free!) DIY advice on how to mitigate 70% of condi mesmer DPS without even using a cooldown.

Also, please stop derailing the discussion. This thread isn’t a broad discussion on condi builds, but rather about how the nerf to MtD has made condi mesmer unviable in PvP due to the huge DPS loss working in tandem with the power/sustain creep from all of the elite specs.

Thanks for all the responses.

^ No kidding, what’s the “non-cleansing” counter play option to 10+ stacks of Burning from Guard, Ele, or Engineer? /release?

Mefiq.7039:

@Fay.2357 i never said i had problems with condi mesmers, but just cuz you wont die from it it doesnt mean its healthy build for game

@Ross Biddle.2367 AND WE HAVE A WINNER!!! THATS WHAT IM TRYING TO TELL YOU O GREAT PLAYERS, The truth has spoken! You go vs Condi mesmer? SORRY DUDE you must run or die… Stealth and Disengage, pop your healing signed and run away.

Are you kidding me, do I really have to bust out Youtube? D:

My point was from a "What happens if you do get “burst” by a condi Mesmer". Naturally that’s not always going to be the case, or if you do you can bring cleanse. So no, you don’t have to run away OR stop using skills, those are just worst case scenario options AND THEY TOTALLY MITIGATE A CONDI MES BUILD.

Here’s an instructional I made for people just like you-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4whRdvVXtzw

Here’s full glass mes no condi cleanse vs condi Mes + friends (Mes comes in during opening fight at home until conclusion, watch from the start if you like), running Moa too I might add -_-u.
https://youtu.be/aHDfiGNaQfw?t=74

Carighan.6758:

Mefiq.7039:

@Fay.2357 i never said i had problems with condi mesmers, but just cuz you wont die from it it doesnt mean its healthy build for game

“Hey, this setup is completely unproblematic to counter and increases diversity by virtue of being a entirely new type of build.” -> “Break its legs!”

Let me guess. You’re in the “such a low skill spec, way too good to be so braindead to play, zomg I’m so pro with my power build and have to work so hard and everything is poison, and these condi people just get all the toys”? Warrior, ideally? Thief also works, but I would guess Warrior, they’re the ones usually the most hurt when someone suggests zerker might not be the holy grail of PvP prowess.

Really… this isn’t the game you want to play. This game has more than one spec. And this game has specs which counter other specs. Accept that your zerker spec isn’t the god of PvP, and that condi is a very viable playstyle, trading initiative for the ability to defend while dealing damage.
It’s hardly the first game to do this, btw.

Find a game built more around direct attack PvP if you enjoy that. MOBAs come to mind (mostly) and ofc fighting games. Those exist and have very active communities. Not every game has to be for everyone.

(Perspective, for full disclosure: Power Shatter Chronomancer)

Pyro glass dps? Lol. Pyro’s the king of full bunker Mes :o

I’ve literally spent all day trying to come up with a decent condi mesmer build that doesn’t revolve around PU, and I have to say, I can’t. I think even with MtD in its prior state, it took a decent amount of skill to play a condi shatter build that didn’t use PU, and now, it’s kitten near impossible. What ANet should’ve done, as many have said before, IS NERF THE TRAIT THAT PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY ABUSING (PRISMATIC UNDERSTANDING).

What do they do instead? Force every condi mesmer to use it in order to make their condi build viable. That is until they get sick of the boring, peekaboo playstyle and finally switch over to power shatter. Maybe that was ANet’s plan all along, so they wouldn’t have to deal with all the zerkers and marauders running builds with zero condi cleanse trolling the forums or have to listen to all the PU mesmers whining about how their favorite trait was nerfed.

And to the “genius” who said this:

Mefiq.7039:

^^ There is no need to play better when playing condi is soooo easy. Its not like i can do direct dmg, go stealth and watch my enemy die while trying to fins/cleave me.
Add 2 things:
Stealth- counter play: Moving around and cleaving
Conf + Torment stacks: Cleanse or not moving around and cleaving.

Add this both and what you get? Condi mesmer, spec that will lock you down unless you bring 10000000000000000 condi cleanses or teammates with shouts.

""""
Rofl,

It’s like “Mitigate that incoming power burst with endure pain/invuln”,
“but wait, they can burst again before my CD’s are up!”
“Bah, Power bursts can be applied to regularly, such cancer, much wow.”

"""
You can Weakness to lessen direct dmg hard there are kittenton of spells that BLOCK direct dmg.

What we get vs condis? Berserk stance? some cleanses? I love when you all seem to think its ok and “skillful” way of playing this game when you run condi builds… If it was playstyle like old good necro then ok, i would say that YES it’s rly hard yet rewarding if played right. What you want is buff for already nobrain build that relays only on spamming same spells over and over again and restealthing, no mather of what enemy, what point, and where doing same thing OVER AND OVER AND OVER again. Fun and skillfull. I like devs that try to kill it before it grows. Confusion and Torment should be punishing dmg but not main source of dmg. Shutting down almost every melee class with 1 brainless build should never be alowed.

First of all, the build you are complaining about is only OP because of the prismatic understanding trait; it has nothing to do with Maim the Disillusioned. So please don’t get involved in a discussion about which you know absolutely nothing.

Secondly, have you ever heard of condi transfers? What about resistance? Most of the mesmer’s scepter and staff attacks can also be reflected… And reflecting their skills means there are not as many clones/phantasms running around to shatter you with.

And finally, here is a novel idea: when you see those clones and phantasms running towards you, PRESS THE DODGE BUTTON! Then you won’t get ANY stacks of torment when the mesmer shatters.

Case in point, there are tons of ways to deal with condi applications besides cleansing.

Anyway, I probably won’t touch mesmer anymore until PU is nerfed and MtD is brought back to its previous state. It’s too frustrating. I regularly deal more condi damage on my celestial engi and reaper (both using traveler runes, btw) than I do by running a full condi mesmer build with wanderer amulet and runes of tormenting.

Windwalker.7421:

^ No kidding, what’s the “non-cleansing” counter play option to 10+ stacks of Burning from Guard, Ele, or Engineer? /release?

Good question. I would have said blocking, dodging, evading or otherwise preventing the attack from hitting, but silly me, those only work against power attacks. I mean that’s why conditions are so OP, right? Because their attacks cannot be avoided.

It must be true! I read it from the pro sPvP team of the forums!

Interesting but don’t buy into it. condi mesmer are easy to play against. Now am not saying am that of an elite player but some of this is down to play style.

we all know that pu has been nerfed and most condi and power build mostly relies too much on this. Knowing this and knowing the play style of stealth to shatter was too predictable so it easy to avoid and mitigate just like others have said.

But and this is a but, not all player play this way. like me when i plsyed pu it wasn’t to set up my shatter bust damage, but to run or and reset the fight if am getting too much pressure. Or to start the fight get a head start.

And now with chrono and my new build which I have to say it still a working process since I have not spend a lot of time in Hot due to crash insure, my condi damage can face up against most builkitten

ot just saying this but only if someone who is better than me can take it for a test run and see for them self.

The fact of the matter is that condi Mesmer is basically dead in PvP. Power shatter Mesmer is much more lethal and, from all I’ve seen, harder to counter (including with the use of stealth, which can be used to set up potent spikes). The main reason I can see why condi Mesmer gets so much hate is that often power builds kill you quickly enough that you don’t really realise just what it was that did you in, while when you’re DoTed by a condition Mesmer you know exactly what it was. (Even then, though, I’ve noticed that when you’re fighting a Mesmer it’s quite easy with all those clones to not notice that what you thought was a 1v1 has turned into a 1v2, particularly if the new arrival is a stealth-focused thief – makes me wonder how much Mesmer hate in general is due to people who were killed by a Mesmer not realising they were actually fighting someone else beside the Mesmer).

However, even if we were to take the perspective that condi Mesmer is inherently unbalanceable and should be boonsmited (which I think would be a shame, since Mesmer has traditionally been a DoT-oriented profession back to when it was first implemented as a full profession in the Guild Wars 1 alpha, but let’s consider this for the sake of discussion), then ArenaNet can’t just stop there. Out of four weapons with autoattacks, half of the mesmer’s weapons are condition-based, and with such a small pool, the Mesmer simply can’t afford to have weapons that are effectively dead in PvP the way professions with larger sets of weapons can. If the condition Mesmer is destined to be permanently discarded, then staff and sceptre need to be rebalanced as power weapons so there can be viable alternatives to sword+offhand/greatsword.