Guild Wars 2

Why do people keep trying to force this build on others? It’s been proven time after time that it simply does not work with ZERO advantages over regular power shatter, yet it’s been given the black seal of approval of being meta on mettabattle. The only reason mesmer is ever used at all is moa and portal.

Inb4 “muh 16 confusion stacks”.

Ananeos.4587:

Why do people keep trying to force this build on others? It’s been proven time after time that it simply does not work with ZERO advantages over regular power shatter, yet it’s been given the black seal of approval of being meta on mettabattle. The only reason mesmer is ever used at all is moa and portal.

Inb4 “muh 16 confusion stacks”.

Because it works in the current meta. In previous metas, it didn’t work as well as power shatter. That’s the difference.

No one is forcing the build on you though, you don’t have to play it if you don’t want to.

It does NOT work in this meta. Scrappers have insta cleanse, Reapers will simply throw the condi you make right back at you and Eles couldn’t care any less about you. Probably the only way you hardcounter someone is through Herald.

I’m not talking about forcing it on ME, I’m talking about forcing a build in pvp to be played by explicitly lying to the public to make them think it is actually good.

So the short answer is that power shatter doesn’t do enough damage.

Power shatter has been hit with a lot of nerfs. The mirror blade nerf was nasty, and drastically lowered our burst damage. Additionally, it’s basically a requirement that you take inspiration for cleansing a lot of the time, and this means no DE. Unlike condie shatter, power shatter has garbage damage past the initial burst. If they’re not dead at that point, they’re going to full heal and wreck you. This means that different mechanics have more impact on you. DE becomes essential for how it enables higher instant burst…but you can’t take it due to needing inspiration.

You will never break a reaper with a power burst. Granted, you won’t kill a reaper with condie shatter either, but you can at least spec inspiration for cleansing without massive trade-offs.

You’ll never kill a rev with a power burst. They have too many automatic defenses from traits, and can pop the glint heal to full heal from your bursting. After you burst you’ve got 10s of trying to survive someone that can chase faster than you can run, and can autoattack you to death in about 5 seconds.

You’ll never kill a scrapper with power burst. They have too much passive and active defenses. Additionally, they have the sustain to heal back up after you’ve burst them, and the damage output to scare you off.

I could go on, but that’s the gist of it. Condie shatter doesn’t rely on killing in 1 burst. You deal substantial pressure over the course of a fight and eventually kill them without putting all your eggs in the ‘kill or be killed’ basket. Additionally, condie shatter has more reasonable flexibility in traiting. Taking inspiration doesn’t sacrifice anything too major for condie shatter, while giving up dueling (DE) is close to an unacceptable loss for power shatter. Combined with smaller things like staff being vastly more defensively powerful than greatsword, illusionary reversion synergizing very well with condies but awfully with power, and having a far more favorable matchup vs thieves on condie shatter than on power shatter, it all adds up to power shatter being substantially inferior.

Thanks for the explanation Pyro, but all I really want to know why it is even being played in the first place. When popular sites like metabattle brand something as “META” then you know people are going to roll that class and try it out in ranked, which horribly decreases the odds of winning to whomever qued up with that person. We all know Mesmer is a skill based class with a learning curve steeper than Mount Everest so why are people trying to hype up a build that is both hard to play and does nothing at all?

Because you’re totally wrong in your evaluation of its effectiveness. I don’t think anyone outside of the mouth-breathers at metabattle actually think that condie shatter is a top tier meta pick, but it is by far the best option that mesmers have in the current meta. Is it as good as a reaper? No, probably not. Is it the best shot we’ve got? Yep.

Uhhh…. I’ve been playing a condi shatter build in ranked with no issues. I would also not call it a difficult learning curve at all, imo it’s easier and more forgiving than power shatter, between scepter/shield and staff allowing you to take or avoid a lot of hits . I am playing this build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAW7enknBlphNqBeqBEgiFljquRn0K9MAWgIDtyGoMD-TJRHAB1XGYgLCgu7PAwTAAA

I’m talking about the learning curve for new players wanting to get into mesmer because they saw the shiny seal of approval making it “as good as reaper or scrapper”. Then they drag down the game by queing into ranked mode for the first time with mesmer which they think will carry them the game but is actually dragging your team down.

I have a feeling everyone is missing the point I’m trying to make here…

Ananeos.4587:

I’m talking about the learning curve for new players wanting to get into mesmer because they saw the shiny seal of approval making it “as good as reaper or scrapper”. Then they drag down the game by queing into ranked mode for the first time with mesmer which they think will carry them the game but is actually dragging your team down.

I have a feeling everyone is missing the point I’m trying to make here…

Fay’s explanation is top notch… your point is not Mesmer specific.

New fotm re-rollers generally suck balls at first regardless of prof.

Ananeos.4587:

It does NOT work in this meta. Scrappers have insta cleanse, Reapers will simply throw the condi you make right back at you and Eles couldn’t care any less about you. Probably the only way you hardcounter someone is through Herald.

I’m not talking about forcing it on ME, I’m talking about forcing a build in pvp to be played by explicitly lying to the public to make them think it is actually good.

the fact you are worng atm. in the past you probably right but now no more amulet with higher vitality which make conditions works better

reaper < condi mesmer just dodge the condi trasnfer or chain cc the necro or just moa him
druid< mesmer just stack some condi let druid cleanse and next burst he is down
ele<mesmer just attack him below 75% and he is down (can take while but ele will get off point so decap for mesmer) or just moa
rev<mesmer
thief<mesmer unless thief waiting time in stealth and not contribute to his team elsewhere

only problem can be scrapper cause of the passive S and healing skill. if not interrupt they back in the fight but still doable. guard also as they can control the point better but off point mesmer wins

now regarding rotation. if ele is on far and mesmer push to him even if the fight take long. the enemy team lost support class versus sustain class. same with ranger.
most of the time you wont see mesmer pushing 1v1 versus scrapper. thus if enemy send scrapper to far to hold it then enemy team lost sustain while mesmer will moa ele or ranger and fast win snowball.

so the fact is it indeed works in this meta (till anet ruin it again)

Kazhiel.8194:

Uhhh…. I’ve been playing a condi shatter build in ranked with no issues. I would also not call it a difficult learning curve at all, imo it’s easier and more forgiving than power shatter, between scepter/shield and staff allowing you to take or avoid a lot of hits . I am playing this build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAW7enknBlphNqBeqBEgiFljquRn0K9MAWgIDtyGoMD-TJRHAB1XGYgLCgu7PAwTAAA

Of course yes, it’s much much easier than Shatter mesmer but it is harder than Reaper and whatnot.

Ananeos.4587:

I’m talking about the learning curve for new players wanting to get into mesmer because they saw the shiny seal of approval making it “as good as reaper or scrapper”. Then they drag down the game by queing into ranked mode for the first time with mesmer which they think will carry them the game but is actually dragging your team down.

I have a feeling everyone is missing the point I’m trying to make here…

i agree wit learning curve but its the same for each build especially power shatter which had the highest curve.
yes i had 3 enemies mesmers which i was able to down 1v1 one after the another. so they will learn and adjust and probably will kill me eventually next month…

Yeah mostly just +1 to Pyro & Messiahs remarks, but I think OP doesn’t realize just how much continuous Condie pressure the build puts out. Yeah it’s not as burst-condition as other Condition professions, but it just keeps on coming. You can cleanse, cleanse, cleanse, all you want, it won’t matter…more is coming.

I am averaging 350-450k damage per match, sometimes over 600k. That is no damage slouch! (And it’s usually about 2:1 Condie to Direct damage, which is also quite a different story than the older pure Condie Shatter builds that were closer to 4:1.)

Windwalker.7421:

Yeah mostly just +1 to Pyro & Messiahs remarks, but I think OP doesn’t realize just how much continuous Condie pressure the build puts out. Yeah it’s not as burst-condition as other Condition professions, but it just keeps on coming. You can cleanse, cleanse, cleanse, all you want, it won’t matter…more is coming.

I am averaging 350-450k damage per match, sometimes over 600k. That is no damage slouch! (And it’s usually about 2:1 Condie to Direct damage, which is also quite a different story than the older pure Condie Shatter builds that were closer to 4:1.)

the old condi shatter had the same dmg output. its not matter dmg output if you dont manage to kill fast. in the past no one beside me (probably) play condi shatter as power shatter just was better choise and vitality amulet which gave more sustain versus condition.
atm if i have 100k condition dmg i can be happy as it mean i manage to kill faster the enemy without him being able to heal and sustain longer (but sute i love to see abover 300 condi dmg and 150 direct dmg)

Ananeos.4587:

I have a feeling everyone is missing the point I’m trying to make here…

Your thread title was as follows: “Condi shatter meta – why?”. This was answered in detail by pyro.

In terms of your actual post, it is chock nearly full of inflammatory assertions and inaccuracies that aren’t worth responses. I don’t know what other point you’re trying to make here that is in need of understanding.

Well from my point of view, condi mesmer is most definitely meta.

Frostball.9108:

Well from my point of view, condi mesmer is most definitely meta.

sure it is

I think your issue (which you didn’t clearly state in the title or the OP) is that you have newbies playing a meta build in ranked pvp and not knowing what they are doing with it. Your annoyance is better directed at the newbies for jumping into ranked pvp. Period. Instead of learning the build and getting good with it first.

This is a problem regardless of build OR profession. It’s called overconfidence on the part of new players.

Fun fact, condi mesmer is meta because it beats everything 1v1 (If your running inspiration). The only good fight against it is scrapper and thats still shakey.

IllegalEcchi.6320:

Fun fact, condi mesmer is meta because it beats everything 1v1 (If your running inspiration). The only good fight against it is scrapper and thats still shakey.

condi mesmer always being able to 1v1 almost any class. and it was never meta.
the semi meta before was carrion but too squishy for average players.
so condi shatter didnt become meta for the build itself rather

1. new mercenery amulet
2. high vitality amulet deleted
3. more condi pressure from necro (who cant handle condi)
4. the need for portal and moa from mesmer (while power mesmer is out of the meta)
5. the need in good 1v1 class who can kill sustain classes. high burst class cant sustain much
6. mesmer always find the way to stick to the meta !

messiah.1908:

IllegalEcchi.6320:

Fun fact, condi mesmer is meta because it beats everything 1v1 (If your running inspiration). The only good fight against it is scrapper and thats still shakey.

condi mesmer always being able to 1v1 almost any class. and it was never meta.
the semi meta before was carrion but too squishy for average players.
so condi shatter didnt become meta for the build itself rather

1. new mercenery amulet
2. high vitality amulet deleted
3. more condi pressure from necro (who cant handle condi)
4. the need for portal and moa from mesmer (while power mesmer is out of the meta)
5. the need in good 1v1 class who can kill sustain classes. high burst class cant sustain much
6. mesmer always find the way to stick to the meta !

I like number 6 but i agree totally, but the fact is condi mes is meta

messiah.1908:

. in the past no one beside me (probably) play condi shatter as power shatter just was better choise and vitality amulet which gave more sustain versus condition.

Not true! I’ve been playing Condie Shatter for a long time, but I swapped between builds a lot as I was never really satisfied with any of them. I just didn’t play it nearly as well as you did…nor do I now for that matter. ;-)

I never liked glassy Power Shatter, I’m too old/slow/whatever to enjoy it…well and without support from a team, it was always a pretty hard spec to play successfully. So I always tried odd variants of power and condition builds, and ever since MtD gave 2x Torment, I loved Condie Shatter…even if it wasn’t meta.

Ananeos.4587:

It does NOT work in this meta. Scrappers have insta cleanse, Reapers will simply throw the condi you make right back at you and Eles couldn’t care any less about you. Probably the only way you hardcounter someone is through Herald.

I’m not talking about forcing it on ME, I’m talking about forcing a build in pvp to be played by explicitly lying to the public to make them think it is actually good.

Meta build:
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest

Dark-icon-chronomancer.png
Chronophantasma Shatter

Ether Feast
Portal Entre
Blink
Signet of Illusions
Signet of Humility

Staff
Superior Sigil of Geomancy
Superior Sigil of Doom

Sw/Sh
Superior Sigil of Geomancy
Superior Sigil of Doom

Superior Rune of the Nightmare
Mercenary’s Amulet

This is the meta build. It work to play on far point. Really good versus reaper because the “boon” of this build are on the low side, removing abilities to reaper to burst properly.

More… confusions always took people with condis into a big HELL of damage.

It counter in 1v1 a lot of meta build.

Be prepared to see more of that for the next weeks… until everyone QQ about it.

i called this condi mes meta months ago.
now accepting homage and tribute.

because, no one is proud, and every one is happy to play an easy win build.
Above of this due to pointless nerf, the damage of Power mesmer isn’t worth the risk.
Condi give you security+ sure damage.
Power give you average damage for very HIGH risk, which is not worth.

whatever…. a pointless topic, in a pointless forgotten forum.
the official forum is dead, so the game is following soon.

Kazhiel.8194:

I would also not call it a difficult learning curve at all, imo it’s easier and more forgiving than power shatter, between scepter/shield and staff allowing you to take or avoid a lot of hits .

I agree.
Scepter/sword + shield and staff condi I find to be a lot easier than power mes.
Power mes I find to be one of the most difficult builds.
Builds like dh, druid and reaper (tempest maybe too) I find to be easier than condi mes though.

Condi mes is also very good in 1 on1, which I feel helps a lot in performing well.

how is it condi meta that only 1 class use condi – reaper. we now the second class while all other support and power

the last meta was bunker and before power and now its combine meta as it should be

mesmer good in 1v1
rev – easy kill
ele – easy kill but can take longer and easy decap
thief – easy to medium
ranger – easy kill
engi – medium to hard but easy decap
necro – hard only cause condi trasnfer
DH – medium unless you try to fight on point

in team fight just 1 moa if your team know how to focus fire and cc the res and you got a snowball.
in fight when i see my team fail to do so i know i have to carry them
i had 1v2 (necro and mesmer) for 2 min decaping a point, while my team died in 3v2 what can i say ….

Messiah, I have to ask for some advice on dealing with Trap DH. I always see people say they’re no big deal, but for me personally I have to say it’s one of the most annoying classes to me ATM. If they +1 it’s just instant death for me, and I have found very little effective counters. It seems that even combining all of the following: Dodges, F4, BF (when Sword), and Shield #5 and Chaos Armor up, it doesn’t seem to matter I just melt. I try to blink out, I take damage and get pulled back in for more damage. I often seem to take damage right through BF and even F4!? (Maybe it’s lag I dunno.)

Yeah OK sometimes I can avoid some of that of course, but I’ve seen so many people claim you can just dodge out of the traps and that they’re easy to avoid, but the CD is so low that it doesn’t matter if I manage to barely limp through 1 set of traps, a few seconds later I eat the next round. (And it’s not like the damage output and sustain of the DH is poor in between traps!) That just doesn’t seem to work for me. Worst is if I do manage to get out after losing 75% of my HPs almost instantly, I get shot in the back for 6k with TS.

I do kill them 1v1 most of the time, but it takes absolutely perfect play on my part. One single mistake and I’m dead. In turn the DH seems like he can make mistake after mistake, and not really get punished for it. It usually takes a fairly long time to kill them, and that means having to survive at least 2-3 Trap dumps.

A bit of a QQ here, but DH is pretty annoying right now for soloQ, especially as I said in a +1 scenario. It’s usually instant death before I can do much more than press a single button, which is ofc F4 or Blink, but even that never seems to buy me enough of a breather to survive more than 2-3 seconds blowing all me defensives.

Any tips/tricks?

Wind, most of guards traps if you just stand still you don’t take damage. The one with the spinning blade on the ground thing will damage you if you stand in it. You can also staff 2 or blink out if you need. Or just stand in the middle with shield 3. The main thing is not to panic and try running thru them
.

Windwalker.7421:

Messiah, I have to ask for some advice on dealing with Trap DH. I always see people say they’re no big deal, but for me personally I have to say it’s one of the most annoying classes to me ATM. If they +1 it’s just instant death for me, and I have found very little effective counters. It seems that even combining all of the following: Dodges, F4, BF (when Sword), and Shield #5 and Chaos Armor up, it doesn’t seem to matter I just melt. I try to blink out, I take damage and get pulled back in for more damage. I often seem to take damage right through BF and even F4!? (Maybe it’s lag I dunno.)

Yeah OK sometimes I can avoid some of that of course, but I’ve seen so many people claim you can just dodge out of the traps and that they’re easy to avoid, but the CD is so low that it doesn’t matter if I manage to barely limp through 1 set of traps, a few seconds later I eat the next round. (And it’s not like the damage output and sustain of the DH is poor in between traps!) That just doesn’t seem to work for me. Worst is if I do manage to get out after losing 75% of my HPs almost instantly, I get shot in the back for 6k with TS.

I do kill them 1v1 most of the time, but it takes absolutely perfect play on my part. One single mistake and I’m dead. In turn the DH seems like he can make mistake after mistake, and not really get punished for it. It usually takes a fairly long time to kill them, and that means having to survive at least 2-3 Trap dumps.

A bit of a QQ here, but DH is pretty annoying right now for soloQ, especially as I said in a +1 scenario. It’s usually instant death before I can do much more than press a single button, which is ofc F4 or Blink, but even that never seems to buy me enough of a breather to survive more than 2-3 seconds blowing all me defensives.

Any tips/tricks?

i feel you bro
as said above just stand and use your shield for the spinning trap.
but guard will try to push you and pull you back for doable dmg. the pull if its land is unavoidable/unblockable (op). so best thing is to blink to LOS places so he cant pull you.
also its hard to 1v1 on point so what i do is just staff PR and blink if needed. if you miss it you gonna died or be ineffective as you use all your defense utilities.
in group fight i try to be in safe places and let my team take the dmg
if i manage to pressure him with 6 confusion and torment he become pressure and need to use cleanse

just practice as i try to . and i died alot

it works because it’s tanky and because there are so much condi spam already from other class meta builds the extra mes condi works very well.
if you are in a team where no one else is spamming condi then ye condi mesmer would kinda suck. But look at what’s out there right now.. necros necros and more necros…

^ That is a point that I hope Anet is aware of. This is also a significant difference from previous metas where arguably Condie Shatter was actually stronger (pre-MtD nerf), and was still not considered OPd. (Probably in part because the meta was Power at the time.)

I too have noticed that in matches with other Condie damage dealers, we synergize very well. We can simply keep the Condies coming, making Cleansing difficult for all but organized teams. This makes both our and others conditions more effective, because we provide a lot of cover conditions for classes that can Condie-burst far better then we can.

For example, compared to playing a “Burn <insert profession>” I hardly ever see Confusion or Torment hitting for over 1k, much less the 2-3k (or more!) that you often see coming from Burn-oriented builds. (Whom in turn often lack access to multiple damaging conditions.)

i really dont know why ppl say condi meta

guard- power
engi – power
ele – support
thief – power
ranger – power/support
mesmer – condi
necro – condi
rev – power

so only 2 classes use condi and you call it condi meta?!

i call it balance meta

now necro cant go to power as he too squishy versus the power creep and usually he doesnt burst pressure much rather put sustain condi pressure unless you take all the spin poinson without cleanse

mesmer is more burst pressure with condi which can yield around 15 torment and confusion which are around 4k dps

messiah.1908:

i really dont know why ppl say condi meta

guard- power
engi – power
ele – support
thief – power
ranger – power/support
mesmer – condi
necro – condi
rev – power

so only 2 classes use condi and you call it condi meta?!

i call it balance meta

now necro cant go to power as he too squishy versus the power creep and usually he doesnt burst pressure much rather put sustain condi pressure unless you take all the spin poinson without cleanse

mesmer is more burst pressure with condi which can yield around 15 torment and confusion which are around 4k dps

Mainly because you get a minimum of 4 necros per game on average.

DeathReign.7821:

messiah.1908:

i really dont know why ppl say condi meta

guard- power
engi – power
ele – support
thief – power
ranger – power/support
mesmer – condi
necro – condi
rev – power

so only 2 classes use condi and you call it condi meta?!

i call it balance meta

now necro cant go to power as he too squishy versus the power creep and usually he doesnt burst pressure much rather put sustain condi pressure unless you take all the spin poinson without cleanse

mesmer is more burst pressure with condi which can yield around 15 torment and confusion which are around 4k dps

Mainly because you get a minimum of 4 necros per game on average.

? usually see 1 to 2 and if more it’s easyour win
Also it doesn’t make it conditions meta rather necro meta

messiah.1908:

DeathReign.7821:

messiah.1908:

i really dont know why ppl say condi meta

guard- power
engi – power
ele – support
thief – power
ranger – power/support
mesmer – condi
necro – condi
rev – power

so only 2 classes use condi and you call it condi meta?!

i call it balance meta

now necro cant go to power as he too squishy versus the power creep and usually he doesnt burst pressure much rather put sustain condi pressure unless you take all the spin poinson without cleanse

mesmer is more burst pressure with condi which can yield around 15 torment and confusion which are around 4k dps

Mainly because you get a minimum of 4 necros per game on average.

? usually see 1 to 2 and if more it’s easyour win
Also it doesn’t make it conditions meta rather necro meta

I’ve seen a minimum of 2 on each team on average. It usually starts out with more, but the others change to different classes.

Don’t fall into the category of keyboard warriors that say “easy win” with little to no context. My point was to answer your query on why people think it’s a condi meta.

It’s less that it’s a condi meta with necros, and more that it’s a condi/boon corruption meta for necros. They have so much of it since the january update, that it doesn’t make sense to play necro and not play condi boon corrupt.

That said I have a reaper that’s a power build because 100% crit with 25 stacks vuln and many might stacks is a cake walk to do.

But that aside, I don’t think there is a condi meta right now, so much as alot of necro/reapers and (I will disagree partially on this one) condi alongside power scrappers are being played. and the top three professions seem to be reaper, scrapper, and herald.

I agree. Condie meta is overstating it a bit. It is fairly balanced, although Necros are easily averaging 3-4 per game, closer to 4 IMO. I too have been in games with 6 Necros more then once, and I can’t recall having had that with any other profession in the last several weeks. (Most I’ve seen aside from Necros is one game with 5 Thieves, and another with 5 DHs…but 5 Necros is almost common, 4 is like the new normal.)

I do think we might see a Condie meta evolve if Anet does to other “OPd” elites what they did to Chrono. Burn Guardian, Zerker, and Engie are very powerful, but they’re simply outclassed by Power/hybrid variants in the case of DH & Scrapper.

Oddly there is a conversation about this in one of the other profession forums (Necro I think), and I said something there that I will also say here, paraphrased as I’m too lazy to copy paste right now… (don’t think about that too much).

Condition damage got a serious boost last june. To the point that it became viable and much more balanced against direct damage. I think a lot of people are calling it OP because they don’t like change. On the most fundamental level, I think that’s what it is. A lot of complaining about having to even use condi cleansing is going on, because before it was ignorable, so why bother? Now it’s actually effective, but people don’t want to have to change their strategies to account for it or defend against it. So instead of adapting, they’d rather complain about it. But in general, it’s actually very balanced.

The ranting about necros is also interesting when you think about it because it is primarily from classes that depend heavily on boons. You don’t rely on boons, have some cleanses, and necros aren’t that big a deal. Most of the complaints are from classes that use boons heavily. Which boon corruption was made as a hard counter to. Boon removal isn’t all that common, so necro looks OP all of a sudden, because people don’t want their boons messed with. They’d have to, I don’t know, adapt or something.

Note: This post is primarily food for thought and generalized to the issue of the perception of condi in the game in general. I mention the necro stuff because I see the conversation happening on mesmer and necro forums primarily. Just my 2 cents. Back to your regular scheduled discussion.

Ananeos.4587:

It does NOT work in this meta. Scrappers have insta cleanse, Reapers will simply throw the condi you make right back at you and Eles couldn’t care any less about you. Probably the only way you hardcounter someone is through Herald.

Ok, two things:

• No one in GW2 hardcounters anyone, the odd bug excluded. I think the work you were looking for is “softcounter”. Small but very important difference.
• So you said which 3 classes it doesn’t work against, does this mean that the build has a theoretical 66% winrate because it’s perfect versus the other 6? Even then, do you queue for the magical 1v1 league where the only thing you need to care about is how you stack up versus class XYZ, no fight ever has more players and no terrain or mechanic ever exists? Because 1v1 in guild sPvP arena has an entire different balance setup than actual sPvP.

Thief bias; just wanted to put that out there.

I think there are several reasons you see condi mes’ in the meta right now besides portal/moa.

1) Merc Ammy – the mes isn’t fodder for spike power builds
a) Merc amulet + inspiration + Chrono/shield gives you a decent sustain portfolio. Yes, you will lose drawn out 1v1s v certain classes but that isn’t the point. You have staying power, both in team fights and 1v1s where you’re waiting for help.

2) Chronophanstasma – Note the only pure condi builds out there have a prolific amount of condi spam, which this build gives.
a) you generate clones like crazy. this allows you to use more shatters, more often. condi builds benefit more from this than power builds because condi build has more shatters that can be used to significantly contribute to dps

3) Paladin Amulet – Many classes are running around with this amulet, which creates a new barrier to spike burst (anti power mes) compared to previous patches. Condi doesn’t care.

This is certainly not an exhaustive list, but gives a few reasons why mes’ like condi. I say high five despite the pains that it brings to me as a thief. Enjoy.

Ennui.1597:

Thief bias; just wanted to put that out there.

I think there are several reasons you see condi mes’ in the meta right now besides portal/moa.

1) Merc Ammy – the mes isn’t fodder for spike power builds
a) Merc amulet + inspiration + Chrono/shield gives you a decent sustain portfolio. Yes, you will lose drawn out 1v1s v certain classes but that isn’t the point. You have staying power, both in team fights and 1v1s where you’re waiting for help.

2) Chronophanstasma – Note the only pure condi builds out there have a prolific amount of condi spam, which this build gives.
a) you generate clones like crazy. this allows you to use more shatters, more often. condi builds benefit more from this than power builds because condi build has more shatters that can be used to significantly contribute to dps

3) Paladin Amulet – Many classes are running around with this amulet, which creates a new barrier to spike burst (anti power mes) compared to previous patches. Condi doesn’t care.

This is certainly not an exhaustive list, but gives a few reasons why mes’ like condi. I say high five despite the pains that it brings to me as a thief. Enjoy.

clone like crazy? same as before.
before ppl use DE so every dodge create clone
now we need to have at least 2 to create 1 so after 2 shatter i have none as cp wont create again phantasm.
with weapon it the same as before

mercy amulet just give 3% dmg reduction fyi
and the power is not high enough with sword and staff to really do something

messiah.1908:

Ennui.1597:

Thief bias; just wanted to put that out there.

I think there are several reasons you see condi mes’ in the meta right now besides portal/moa.

1) Merc Ammy – the mes isn’t fodder for spike power builds
a) Merc amulet + inspiration + Chrono/shield gives you a decent sustain portfolio. Yes, you will lose drawn out 1v1s v certain classes but that isn’t the point. You have staying power, both in team fights and 1v1s where you’re waiting for help.

2) Chronophanstasma – Note the only pure condi builds out there have a prolific amount of condi spam, which this build gives.
a) you generate clones like crazy. this allows you to use more shatters, more often. condi builds benefit more from this than power builds because condi build has more shatters that can be used to significantly contribute to dps

3) Paladin Amulet – Many classes are running around with this amulet, which creates a new barrier to spike burst (anti power mes) compared to previous patches. Condi doesn’t care.

This is certainly not an exhaustive list, but gives a few reasons why mes’ like condi. I say high five despite the pains that it brings to me as a thief. Enjoy.

clone like crazy? same as before.
before ppl use DE so every dodge create clone
now we need to have at least 2 to create 1 so after 2 shatter i have none as cp wont create again phantasm.
with weapon it the same as before

mercy amulet just give 3% dmg reduction fyi
and the power is not high enough with sword and staff to really do something

No, clone generation is more than before. The only thing it could be compared to is before the vigor nerfs (two of them), which was a long time ago, so i wouldn’t take a stance on whether or not it was higher back then.

Quadox.7834:

messiah.1908:

Ennui.1597:

Thief bias; just wanted to put that out there.

I think there are several reasons you see condi mes’ in the meta right now besides portal/moa.

1) Merc Ammy – the mes isn’t fodder for spike power builds
a) Merc amulet + inspiration + Chrono/shield gives you a decent sustain portfolio. Yes, you will lose drawn out 1v1s v certain classes but that isn’t the point. You have staying power, both in team fights and 1v1s where you’re waiting for help.

2) Chronophanstasma – Note the only pure condi builds out there have a prolific amount of condi spam, which this build gives.
a) you generate clones like crazy. this allows you to use more shatters, more often. condi builds benefit more from this than power builds because condi build has more shatters that can be used to significantly contribute to dps

3) Paladin Amulet – Many classes are running around with this amulet, which creates a new barrier to spike burst (anti power mes) compared to previous patches. Condi doesn’t care.

This is certainly not an exhaustive list, but gives a few reasons why mes’ like condi. I say high five despite the pains that it brings to me as a thief. Enjoy.

clone like crazy? same as before.
before ppl use DE so every dodge create clone
now we need to have at least 2 to create 1 so after 2 shatter i have none as cp wont create again phantasm.
with weapon it the same as before

mercy amulet just give 3% dmg reduction fyi
and the power is not high enough with sword and staff to really do something

No, clone generation is more than before. The only thing it could be compared to is before the vigor nerfs (two of them), which was a long time ago, so i wouldn’t take a stance on whether or not it was higher back then.

It’s only more than before if you take DE and illusionary reversion, but that’s very rare.

I think i need to get this into everyone head right now before the next patch come out or there will be no saving for mesmer:
Condi mesmer is not the second coming of this class but a last straw for this class because power shatter DOES NOT WORK for everyone except for the excetional few, power shatter mesmer is too risky, low damage compare to other class, even druid’s staff AA will out damage greatsword AA.

Next, the delusion of grandeur for this class, for non mesmer I can forgive them but for those that play mesmer and said that mesmer’s utilities and elite skills are op and need a nerf, these people need to have a look at other class or check if there are truely op and there is no defence against it? Here are some of the example:

Gravity Well: New flash, it’s already been nerf once and you guys want to have it nerf again!? What is wrong with you guys? Too many CC and lol “damage”? Have any of you guys try out Dragonhunter’s trap yet? Oh yeah and that one second casting time, a normal person will walk out of your target area before you even finish casting it.

Signet of Humility: One second cast time, 180 cooldown and it also come with build in evade. If it wasn’t because of some class that is nearly unkillable in melee like scrapper or some class that giving out aura like santa giving out present aka tempest I don’t think there will be a use for this skill. For double moa, mesmer have to set up illusion, use continuum split then use the signet, this is not some skill simple skill chain like other class. For some that said it is op because after they have been hit by moa they are hit again by CC, let’s face it you are getting hit by heavy CC and conditions, with or without moa you will die anyway.

Portal: Oh god, it’s been there since the begining and you guys said it’s OP now? Have you ever seen a mesmer in a tourney with a portal and make his team won?

In conclusion for this, please don’t jump on the nerf train just because you feel like “the cool kidz” are doing it, try it first for some time, check out other class and compare them to mesmer, because other class have their own niche and mesmer niche is becoming non existence.

Hlord.5940 , Gravity Well was unchanged , only alacrity changed

Infusion.7149:

Hlord.5940 , Gravity Well was unchanged , only alacrity changed

One of the first nerfs after HOT was a 20% damage reduction to Gravity Well.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/October_2015