Guild Wars 2

I have been studying the Mesmer lately, trying to be more intentional with how I play, and attempting to get the most out of my gaming experience. After a lot of reading, listening, watching, etc…, I think i’m finally starting to figure things out.

Taking some advice from Mr. Prometheus’ wonderful videos, i’m trying to develop a build (or at least one of a few different playing styles) based on a theme.

So my questions are: is a condition damage build a viable option for a Mesmer to play? Is there enough to work with to make this work for a solo PvE build? Would it be a waste of time? Maybe i’m getting ahead of myself, but if it would work, what would be a good direction to head as far as armor, sessions, runes, sigils, etc…

I’m creating this post on my phone, so I’ll wait to post more of my thoughts that led me to this point. I just like the way condition damage stacks and the possibilities it may bring. Thoughts?

I do 0/20/30/0/20, changed Mr Prometheus’ build, not sure why he wants Power since it does nothing for a staff build. The 15 pointer in precision tree gives our illusions bleeds on crits, if you swap to sword/pistol with 3 illusions up you get 14-16 bleeds just from them and if you pop a chaos storm or Null field on/nearby the mob they’ll give him 24 stacks of confusion.

My condition damage build is 10/25/10/0/25, taking all three Clone death traits. I find these traits invaluable with a Staff condition build as they help to slow and weaken the enemy and deal extra condition damage.

Against melee enemies it’s pretty much a “ kitten if you do, kitten if you don’t situation”: if they ignore Staff Clones they’ll keep using WoC on them, if they kill them they get a bunch of conditions (and you’ll have conjured another one in an instant anyway). Against ranged enemies it’s the same if you stay in close range, which you should.

@MeveM
You have to differ “Condition Build” and “Bleeding Build”.
As Embolism explained, Condition builds focus in alot different conditions with staff and iWarlock.
Bleeding builds focus in crit chance with GS and/or SW/Focus/Pistol

I run a hybrid gs/staff bleed/condition + direct dmg.
With 20/20/10/0/20
Stack condition dmg till bleeds hit about 75 per tick (about 700 condition dmg) and get crit up to about 45% and the rest in power until you feel things are dropping quite fast then put stats into vit or toughness as required.

People say this doesnt work however i can crit with iBerserker for about 3k and stack 3 bleeds ticking at 75 each and that scales up with might on yourself. All the while being able to switch to a staff to debilitate, kill and support.

Pure condition builds take forever to kill objects and i feel the mesmer’s specialty lies in fighting several fights at once. So the ability to switch between ranged and close between direct, condition, shatters and phantasm for choice of attack is key.

So my questions are: is a condition damage build a viable option for a Mesmer to play? Is there enough to work with to make this work for a solo PvE build? Would it be a waste of time? Maybe i’m getting ahead of myself, but if it would work, what would be a good direction to head as far as armor, sessions, runes, sigils, etc…

Yes, although it’s more of a PvP build, since Confusion is much better for PvP than it is for PvE.

Generally:

- Condition damage
- Confusion
- Staff conditions
- etc

Sharper Images usually takes a backseat or is not taken at all depending on build.

SI != condition damage build.

You’d be hard-pressed to find a condition build that does not include Sharper Images, if for no other reason than Deceptive Evasion being so important for spamming Staff Clones. Any condition build that does not take Sharper Images (and Deceptive Evasion) would be much weaker offensively than a build that does.

Leveled without problems till 80 with a staff/condition build.
Mr. Prometheus videos are really nice to learn the ropes. I must say it was a very safe way of leveling, especially after having the double bounce trait.

Some things to take into account:
- Terrible damage to objects just like Zeoli said, you have to switch to another weapon for that.
- Hard cap of 25 stacks per mob, which means that lot’s of damage is wasted in big events, if you want to do damage in those occasions, you have to adapt your playstyle (afk heavy phantasm use, or switch weapon and go shatter and have fun).

Embolism.8106:

You’d be hard-pressed to find a condition build that does not include Sharper Images, if for no other reason than Deceptive Evasion being so important for spamming Staff Clones. Any condition build that does not take Sharper Images (and Deceptive Evasion) would be much weaker offensively than a build that does.

I think the difference is whether you treat SI as a real source of damage and then itemize towards that (with Precision), or just ignore it.

For example, my old condition (hybrid?) shatter build has 20 in Dueling for DE, but had 0 precision on gear (Carrion). Good power and cdamage though.

Condition damage (Bleed stack) is viable for leveling. After 80 it becomes pure garbage because you will rarely farm mobs one by one and bleeds are capped at 25 anyways.
However, if you focus on conditions as a whole, it might be “decent” (Power centric with Staff play as stated perivously) – in dungeons only.

When it comes to dungeons, I’ll take a necro or engineer anytime instead of a mesmer to fullfill the DoT role. CD is not valuable.

If you want to be worthy of the space you take in a dungeon, roll booner or straight DPS.

Edit: It’s a PvE pov, don’t reply with PvP cases.

I am sure this was answered else where but do the +condition dmg on equipment and weapons apply to clone condition dmg ?

Barab.9016:

I am sure this was answered else where but do the +condition dmg on equipment and weapons apply to clone condition dmg ?

illusions, yes
plants (sylvari plants abuse sharper images), no

A lot of these posts are considering Conditions from the point of damage. Conditions involve other things such as blind, cripple, stuns, and daze. All 4 of which the Mesmer can excel at. A build using those heavily won’t top DPS charts, but I think you’d find in a party situation the group certainly does better with solid crowd control.

The only issue comes from Bosses which frequently are flat out immune or heavily resistant to many forms (although Moa Morph is surprisingly effective against a number of Bosses). It’s not difficult to pop out a few phantasms and still contribute to the DPS for the boss.

Food for thought.

Thread name said:

Condition-Damage-Build

Well thanks for the input thus far. As with most things I’ve been reading, it gives me a lot to chew on.

I’m come to really enjoy playing a staff/GS weapon set, which sounds like it may fall more into a hybrid sort of build than a pure condition damage build. Is that the case? The staff can help pump out conditions while the GS can provide some extra damage. Or am I off in the assesment?

As to the triats, I’m trying not to get too overwhelmed with where to place things. Is the best way to just trial and error? Since I’m only level 30, how could I play around with the top tier traits? Taking Mr. Promethuos’ build (which i know he said use more as a guide than a hard rule), he goes 20/0/30/0/20, I can already see how I could adjust that for a GS build…but I see benefits from SI on Dueling. Lots to learn still!

As a side note, I tend to find myself never using shatters…or rarely I guess. Maybe this is a huge flaw in my play style, but if that helps with suggests toward traits, there you go.

Taking a look at armor and weapons and a condition build. Is there a general rule of thumb which way one should head? I know the Rune of the Undead (or sigil?) for armor sets sounds pretty good. Are orbs better? Are there specific armor sets to be bought or crafted that would be ideal for this type of build? Same for weapons?

I know its probably too many questions, but I’m trying to glean as much as i can from as many players as I can. Sooner or later I’ll just have to go for it, but the more I can learn now, the better off I’ll be. Thanks again!

One way to build a condition build is with high prec and staff clones.

Traits will be something like:
0-20-20-0-30, or
0-25-25-0-20, or
0-20-25-0-25

With 2000 prec, crit rate will be around 55%. This translate to staff clone having only 15% chance to cause only vuln (do no dmg).

Since most dmg comes from staff clones, you will want to sacrifice as much power for cond dmg. Clones does a lot of dmg hitting, 0(vuln only), ~600(burn/bleed), ~1000(shaper image proc). And you have up to 3 of them attacking at each time.

Condition duration is not as useful as it doesn’t transfer to clones.

Shatters are your best friend. Since you can cause a stacks of confusion, and instantly replace your 3 clones(deceptive evasion. sigil of energy helps). Confusion does a ton of bonus dmg.(340 dmg per skill use per stack with a high cond dmg, in aoe too). You should learn to use shatters as they are highly spammable and you can maintain 3-8 stacks of confusion on a target for a long period of time.

Since your dps won’t be too high, stacking toughness is a good idea esp if you plan on using undead runes or/and if you want to go for toughness 25 trait.

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mzmMzc0MzMbLnmMbLnm9MppGVaVRMk08070V7kIM70V7ow270m8of1

That’s my gear/spec.

Amazing in 1vX as well as 1v1. It’s not so much a “condition” build as it is a confusion build. Setting up the “confusion bomb” on someone, then turning all the rest of their damage against them.

The staff is incredibly tanky, and using the #2 to escape as well as getting all that extra regen/protection stacking from #4 is just awesome.

In group fights 6+7 +F2 = 6 stacks aoe confusion. Does great to weaken enemies.

Can solo Supply camps relatively quickly as well, being able to handle the scouts so effectively (wardens can basically solo a scout)

At level 30, I suggest you to trait for Sharpen Images first (along with II). It will boost your damage incredibly. Then keep stacking Illusion til you get enough Condition Damage but don’t forget to unlock X in Duelling (after you’ve spend at least 5 points into Illusions for Celerity).

Have fun

i’m quite sure you cannot trait sharpen images at lvl 30? or am i wrong here?

yeah, you need second trait book so min lvl would be lvl 40…

MeveM.7913:

I do 0/20/30/0/20, changed Mr Prometheus’ build, not sure why he wants Power since it does nothing for a staff build. The 15 pointer in precision tree gives our illusions bleeds on crits, if you swap to sword/pistol with 3 illusions up you get 14-16 bleeds just from them and if you pop a chaos storm or Null field on/nearby the mob they’ll give him 24 stacks of confusion.

I am confused how exactly does using chaos storm or null field give them 24 stacks of confusion? When I use it all it does is pop random conditions or at best give me chaos armor which does not seem to cause confusion at all. I would love to know since I have been trying to have a build with a consistent way of applying high stacks of confusion.

The Phantasmal Duelist’s main ability is a combo finisher. In an Ethereal combo field, every shot from their ability applies confusion.

Put Null Field or Chaos Storm on your clones and watch the confusion stack like mad.

oh my.. how did I not know that. Thanks so much for the explanation. Looking forward to trying that.

I’d probably say something like this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAW7flwzaqXQTqGa9IiZGBHyhSx1ldlZgbXIA;T8AAzypESJlSNlSKqmMNJay2krJZTrKGVs9A

(copy-paste if link doesn’t work)

Basically it’s a 0/25/25/0/20 build. Gear is precision/toughness/condition damage.
Bleeds, confuses, lots of clones. Weapon sigils are bleed on crit and bleed when swap.

I put scepter up, but I’d encourage sword as well. Sword clones’ attack is faster and Blurred Frenzy is a beast. Staff seems like an obvious choice and the extra bounce makes 1-on-1’s a breeze.

I went for Torch off-hand. Pistol is probably awesome an maybe even a better choice; both combo fields and more bleed stacks.

I’d think it would be a solid build for general PvE, maybe sPvP as well. It’s got minimal support outside of Staff. I have heard mixed reports if the AI slows down its attacks when it’s got heavy stacks of confusion. If so, then you could argue that Confusion is also a damage reduction and therefor a “control” debuff as well. Even without that, this build should be popping out tons of conditions.

Don’t know why it won’t let me queue but anyway.

overlordchin.7583
MeveM.7913:
I do 0/20/30/0/20, changed Mr Prometheus’ build, not sure why he wants Power since it does nothing for a staff build. The 15 pointer in precision tree gives our illusions bleeds on crits, if you swap to sword/pistol with 3 illusions up you get 14-16 bleeds just from them and if you pop a chaos storm or Null field on/nearby the mob they’ll give him 24 stacks of confusion.
I am confused how exactly does using chaos storm or null field give them 24 stacks of confusion? When I use it all it does is pop random conditions or at best give me chaos armor which does not seem to cause confusion at all. I would love to know since I have been trying to have a build with a consistent way of applying high stacks of confusion.

Point is, each pistol illusion shoots 8 times. That makes it 24 shots from 3 illusions. Each and every single projectile (gun shot, arrow) that goes through a chaos storm or Nullfield causes a combo. In this case it’s 1 confusion per shot fired by the illusions.

So technically if all 24 shots crit, it’s 24 bleeds and 24 confusion every time the pistol illusions shoot. I usually get around 15 bleeds and 24 confusions.

MeveM.7913:

Point is, each pistol illusion shoots 8 times. That makes it 24 shots from 3 illusions. Each and every single projectile (gun shot, arrow) that goes through a chaos storm or Nullfield causes a combo. In this case it’s 1 confusion per shot fired by the illusions.

So technically if all 24 shots crit, it’s 24 bleeds and 24 confusion every time the pistol illusions shoot. I usually get around 15 bleeds and 24 confusions.

well, assuming you have
- 3 iDuelists up (not fitting for environmental targets, pvp, wvw, normal mobs)
- Sharper images
- all 3 iDuelists shoot while the combo field is up
- you have 60% crit + phantasmal fury trait
- they don’t ever fix the 100% combo bug from iDuelists
- the target has <7 bleedings
- the target has <2 confusions

3×8 shots * 80% crit = 19 crits → +19 bleedings
3×8 shots * 100% combo = 24 combos → +24 confusions

if they fix the bug, it’s
3×8 shots * 20% combo = 5 combos → +5 confusions

I suppose 3 iWardens would do a better job once they fix the 100% combo.

That s one nice topic we have here (:

I m levelling up a condition necro (scepter/dag) and mesmer ( Staff clone and stuff), and it s both fun, love the CD concept.
But thinking about next patch and future class corrections, i’m wondering how the condition mesmer will evolve.

What about lvl. 80 ? Is Staff clone condition build ok ? Do you think mesmers can put as many damage/utility as necro ? (let s say in dungeon)

At the moment ( lvl. 50), my necro feels quite better for multi targets fights, but solo stuff seems more or less the same. It kinda sucks because i really like the mesmer concept, but when i see the great ammount of aoe damage my necro can achieve …
Also i have one problem in group fight where pistol duelist can’t be used : party people are getting the bounces of WoC instead of the ennemy. It s great for the boons but destroy my dps ! Any tips about it ?

It s a green Vs purple side dilemma, and its hard to choose which will be my main ><

Edit : Here is the build for 80 PVE (dungeon/Solo)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAW7alwzaqXVzhGa9IiJFBHyhSB2ldlegbXYuB;T8AAzypESJlSNlSKKfM+I8x6jzHpPrKGVsDA

Nretep.2564:

MeveM.7913:

Point is, each pistol illusion shoots 8 times. That makes it 24 shots from 3 illusions. Each and every single projectile (gun shot, arrow) that goes through a chaos storm or Nullfield causes a combo. In this case it’s 1 confusion per shot fired by the illusions.

So technically if all 24 shots crit, it’s 24 bleeds and 24 confusion every time the pistol illusions shoot. I usually get around 15 bleeds and 24 confusions.

well, assuming you have
- 3 iDuelists up (not fitting for environmental targets, pvp, wvw, normal mobs)
- Sharper images
- all 3 iDuelists shoot while the combo field is up
- you have 60% crit + phantasmal fury trait
- they don’t ever fix the 100% combo bug from iDuelists
- the target has <7 bleedings
- the target has <2 confusions

3×8 shots * 80% crit = 19 crits -> +19 bleedings
3×8 shots * 100% combo = 24 combos -> +24 confusions

if they fix the bug, it’s
3×8 shots * 20% combo = 5 combos -> +5 confusions

I suppose 3 iWardens would do a better job once they fix the 100% combo.

So the idea is to have 3 duelists up and then pop chaos storm or other combo field? But I tried with a duelist and popping the combo field and it def aheres to the 20% combo finisher. 8 – shots with 1 – 2 proc’d combos. Only 1-2 stacks of confusion trigger where teh warden seems more effective but seems to die nearly instantly when i pop it leaving me with no chance for multiples. On top of that the timing of getting a combo field in place before the attack seems problematic at best since they attack nearly instantly after summon then have a long cd before attacking again and chaos storm / other fields dont last but a few seconds. Time warp is most effective but very long cd….

Is there any better way of stacking confusion on an enemy? I feel bad b/c it feels like this thread is being side tracked

I do 0/15/25/10/20 (dungeon/solo – pvp not yet tested) :
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgIQNAW8dlwzaqXazgGaNJhZGBH5nKQdUKwe2LfA3A;TEBAzypESJlSNlSKqmMNJay2krJZTLRGLciYDyLCA

Most of the time I use the staff, I only shatter my illusions in dungeons and use the null field instead of the signet there. In Open World PvE I buff them and myself with Battle Roar which grants an additional 20% critchance (burning, bleeding on crit, direct damage for iWarlock/Warden) and two times might which increases power and condition damage. If WoC hits me (or other players affected by br), it increases the might-boons up to 4-6 during the whole fight, fury lasts longer too. I’m pretty sure the Charr Racial is the one and only skill out there which can strengthen your illusions a while, when you are on your own.

But nevertheless I think this build is suitable for all races, e.g. use the signet of illusions instead of the racial or whatever you might prefer.

10 Points to Inspiration to get the Move faster trait, because with the condition build I do a lot of kiting and like to run faster than most of the mobs ;-)

overlordchin.7583:

Nretep.2564:

well, assuming you have
- 3 iDuelists up (not fitting for environmental targets, pvp, wvw, normal mobs)
- Sharper images
- all 3 iDuelists shoot while the combo field is up
- you have 60% crit + phantasmal fury trait
- they don’t ever fix the 100% combo bug from iDuelists
- the target has <7 bleedings
- the target has <2 confusions

3×8 shots * 80% crit = 19 crits -> +19 bleedings
3×8 shots * 100% combo = 24 combos -> +24 confusions

if they fix the bug, it’s
3×8 shots * 20% combo = 5 combos -> +5 confusions

I suppose 3 iWardens would do a better job once they fix the 100% combo.

So the idea is to have 3 duelists up and then pop chaos storm or other combo field? But I tried with a duelist and popping the combo field and it def aheres to the 20% combo finisher. 8 – shots with 1 – 2 proc’d combos. Only 1-2 stacks of confusion trigger where teh warden seems more effective but seems to die nearly instantly when i pop it leaving me with no chance for multiples. On top of that the timing of getting a combo field in place before the attack seems problematic at best since they attack nearly instantly after summon then have a long cd before attacking again and chaos storm / other fields dont last but a few seconds. Time warp is most effective but very long cd….

Is there any better way of stacking confusion on an enemy? I feel bad b/c it feels like this thread is being side tracked

I also criticized what MeveM said there.
The probability of having 3 iDuelists up and them shooting at the same time is more than just low. And just before they shoot hasting a Feedback dome isn’t easy either.
But as my lastest news are, the combo finisher of iDuelists is bugged at 100% instead of 20%, has this been fixed yet ?

Generally, my most reliable source of [Confusion] is either Scepter #3 or Clone Death Trait or Shatter Trait or F2 Shatter or underwater Trident clones. All of those don’t stack up alot stacks. Most would be Scepter #3 + F2 = 5 + 3 + 3 = 11 Confusion stacks. But I haven’t effectively used combos yet. The iWarden is nice, but not reliable – as you said.

As everyone else here said, condition damage can be a varied amount of playstyles. The main one you would call condition damage would be a staff build, working with C Storm and iWarlock. This is generally defensive though and more than likely used in PvP. The damage output just doesn’t match up to a power/precision build for PvE. Personally I have ran GS/Staff with Rampager’s gear for the longest time, but I’ve been wanting to get away from that even, just because of the difference between Rampager’s vs Berserker’s damage stats. Condition damage just doesn’t compare to the additional power and raw crit dmg that Berserker’s has. With SI your bleeds are are a bit weaker and a bit less consistent due to lower crit, but the damage added from everything else is much higher.

^
but don’t forget that critical damage is lowered by autoscaling. This hurts way more than condition damage scaling.

I forgot, everyone’s a pvp junky in GW2. Normal mobs don’t live long enough to bother, nor does instance groups, boss fights is what I’m running my build around and the rest goes just as well.

In bossfights: owned by bleed cap.

Have to coordinate to be the bleed guy if you intend to run that.

Well let’s just all use Greatswords as that seems to be the only way we’re supposed to play.

Whenever you see a Warrior, Guardian or Mesmer you can without doubt they carry a Greatsword, means great balancing between weapons.