Guild Wars 2

I’m having a lot of issues with Burst mesmers (GS/sword/pistol) and I’m sure it’s a L2P issue. I run sceptor/torch/staff. Would love any advice or tips on how to counter them. (:

My build is http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgUQNArfWlwzKq3UTmGa9IiJFDHyh6x1ldfXJF22FC;T0AAzCpogxUkoIrPOYk+sqYUxpiXFzFA

And I use it in sPvP because I am not yet 80 for WvW (But I plan to use it in WvW as well)

Runes and all that are exactly as in the build.

A burst Mesmer is more than likely not going to carry any condition removal on them, or if the do its null field on the 45 sec cd. 2 things you have to watch for, sword 3 has a clone “leap” (just runs really fast to you) At you and then they immobilize you by swapping places with the clone. For a burst mes to burst correctly they need to have you immobilized or stunned. So if you can dodge the leap clone you will negate a huge chunk of his damage. Now if you get hit by magic bullet, pistol 5, it’s a nasty stun that can be used to shatter, use a stun breaker immediately. Now you have just negated both forms of the mesmers only way to burst, stack confusion, and keep your distance, as well as stealth to lose your target on your head, and watch him self destruct on his own summons, shatters and blurred frenzy With confusion. Once burst mesmers miss there burst or use their burst they will swap to staff to bide their time till their sword burst is up again, this is when they are at their weakest.

@Delusion, Hi mate. OK I will give you som tipps, I dont play tPvP but Last month I tryed a condition shatter build many hours in sPvP and will try it in wvwvw soon. Its wery similar to your build but I changed some. I will give some advices on your build and youc an do what you will, take it or leav it Its not a criticsism on your build so do not se it as I lesser your build., its just things I personaly think is better.

First of all, its a shatter build, this with the might stacking make you want to shatter as often as possible. You will produce more clones than you can shatter and reason the burst build outdmg you si that you have more shatters than you so after a while you lack defenses.

Its easy, drop 33% confusion uptime witch is a ok traid but in a shatter build no were near as good as 50% hp = resett al shatters. It give you another 4 sec immunity, dazze, another cry of frustration witch is your main dmg, mindwrac. It also worth 12 × 3 = 36! stacks of might.

Another is bounce staff, yes extemly usefull but if you have clones up al time and then sahatter them you get more dmg out of 3% dmg / clone. This affect AL dmg sources including shatters and condition.

Manipulation skill changed to sword 50 prec and 20% cd

Fall dmg who is a weak trait unless pure wvwvw and with a special role changed to 3% less dmg / clone who is a extremly powerful trait

I changed torch to pistol, up to you but in my opinion especialy without bounce this do more dmg and give more contol. A shatter mesmer HATE to be stunned as much as you do.

Scepter is a lackluster and for shatter spec unreliable wep. It lack the potensial on demand clone generation for 3 clones and you eather have to get 1 clone and dodge hit 2 or wait for moment to do 3 clones. Its not worth it unless you pve and even questioned here. I know some ppl think scepter is ok but I say that according to me its teh worst shatter mesmer wep we have. Change to sword.

Runes, changed to Lyssa, 6/6 give al boons and remove al conditions on elite, condition and precision.

To maximice the Lyssa changed to MI as it give more elite casts. also strong vs burst classes.

Sigils, 5% dmg on sword, same reason as 3% dmg/clone. Worth more as its % based and your build is tanky so need dmg. Also energy on staff, as you shatter build you cant realy play without this sigil, its just to powerful.

Hope you take my suggestions in the right way. The build I link under is a one that give me as burst shatter mesmer nightmares.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgUQNAsaWlwzKq3UTmGb9IiJF9Gyh6B2BefXJF82FC;T0AAzCqoKyUkoIbRuikFt+YUwpiXFzFA

/Osicat

@Delusion – there’s no guarantee you can defeat a shattercat in spvp even with condition build done right; shatters are very strong atm. To do conditions right use Rabid amulet, trash all your torches and never ever use them again, use pistol instead and learn to combo iduelist’s finishers.

@Osicat – % damage increases and vulnerability won’t increase condition damage regardless of what some articles say…IMO the people who wrote them had might stacks from staff bounces and didn’t realize it; also Lyssa was nerfed for spvp.

@Zid, if that so (got any fact who prove it? a wery interesting point of info that need to be cleared out) Its easy to change 3% dmg / clone for 50% shatter reset and keep bounce on staff. Swap signet of force 5% dmg to earth bleed on crit.

For Lyssa it still remove condition and give al boons for a time last time I tested, thats the main reason I use it on my condition shatter build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgUQNAsaWlwzKq3UTmGb9IiJF9Gyh6B4ldfXJF82FC;T0AAzCqoKyUkoIbRuikFt+YUxpiXFzFA

/Osicat

So..your advice was to change to a shatter spec… Lol

Dec 14th patch – Superior Rune of Lyssa: This item now applies 5 seconds of Protection and Retaliation while on a competitive PvP map. The item’s internal cooldown has been fixed to allow rune effects to occur every 10 seconds.

Yes, I’m sure, test it yourself but be mindful of all effects that will increase your condition damage (might, corruption, different weapon stats, etc). For instance, sword clones can stack 10+ vulnerability but that won’t have any effect on bleed, or scepter clones with or without the +3% trait per clone will do the same bleed damage. Switching from +5% sword to sigil of earth sword has no effect on bleed damage too.

The other common myth about condition damage is that only full seconds matter; that’s not true fractional increases (that actually work as opposed to bugged) add extra chance for damage ticks.

Edit: a couple more points about duration. Firstly, that makes rare veggie pizza a potential game-breaker for certain condition builds; not mesmer ones as it won’t affect our clones’ condition duration, but classes that do all by themselves. There’s no way to balance conditions for spvp, and then have them balanced still with 40% extra. Of course, the pace of WvW is different so that may not matter above 1v1.

On a more arcane technological note, conditions probably tick once per server second, but our attacks are time-stamped inbetween full server seconds. That makes both the statement “once per second” and the fact that fractional duration increases matter correct.

Tsori.8245:

So..your advice was to change to a shatter spec… Lol

That’s how ANet wants us and that’s why they nerfed phantasms despite them being weak to begin with.

GS love their range. Blink in real close, mirror image, spawn some clones, and shatter up some hefty confusion. Goodbye power/crit/glass build.

Tsori.8245:

So..your advice was to change to a shatter spec… Lol

If you look at hes spec he link from start its 0-20-20-0-30 so he. is playing a shatterspec with illusionary persona and clone on dodge. But he dont utilitice al synergies like reset shatters on 50%hp or 3% less dmg / clone. Al I do in my post is help reshape it to be more effective and better survival.

/Osicat

Condition/bleed mesmer here, having the same problem, knowing the reason.

A big part of my damage comes from staff clones. Many of these clones are created through dodge rolls. As you all should know, dodge roll clones do not always attack your target, they simply attack the nearest target. When fighting another mesmer, the nearest target is usually a clone/phantasm, especially when fighting a GS mesmer since their clones spawn right in front of you. Because of this, your staff clone army is probably doing no damage to the real mesmer. Only your own staff autoattacks will hit the real mesmer, but that’s not enough to kill him.

Also when I shatter my illusions, many of them will shatter on the wrong targets, e.g. enemy illusions.

The iWarlock would be a good way to damage the enemy mesmer directly, but in a condition build it’s usually weak, lacking power.

The GS mesmer on the other hand has only little problems with all that. His damage mostly comes from GS #1 autoattacks, #2 mirror blade and #4 iBerzerker, all casted directly at you. For clone generation he probably uses “Mirror Images” which creates clones that will attack and shatter on you, not on any of your illusions.

Another problem: My damage output is too slow to kill his phantasms. Other classes/builds can one-shot or at least two-shot that pesky iBerzerker. I can’t. In order to deal about 2000 damage (to kill a typical phantasm) I have to stack some bleeds and give them a few seconds time to work. This is no viable way to fight an iBerzerker.

My best shot at killing a GS mesmer is using confusion (applied with scepter #3) but while many other classes are clueless about where suddenly all this nasty damage comes from, most mesmers are well aware about confusion. They just stop attacking for a few seconds, that’s it.

Here is what I do whenever I encounter a GS mesmer in WvWvW:

I run!

But only until I reach water, because under water a typical GS mesmer has next to zero chance to win against a condition mesmer. The smart ones know this already and – unfortunately – don’t follow me into the water. The clueless ones join me for a swim and meet some of my beloved trident clones.^^

PS: I have similar problems against minion-master necromancers. Same reason, half my clone army is attacking his pet army.

some things to help you vs. the shatter mesmers:

lead with your distortion shatter. shatter mesmers often lead with mind wrack and then very swiftly with cry of frustration.

Use ‘the presitge’ early in the confrontation. If you are in stealth and they are not you get to make the first move. If they’ve already created clones the clones will stop moving and you can position yourselfs to destroy 1 or more when you drop out of stealth. Do this again with Decoy.

when you are running towards them press scepter 2 to block their first move. Often times a phantasm summon.

Ross Biddle.2367:

GS love their range. Blink in real close, mirror image, spawn some clones, and shatter up some hefty confusion. Goodbye power/crit/glass build.

A sound strat if you were fighting anyone other than a mesmer. I think we can all agree we tend to be the smarter fighters in this game because our class is like driving a high performance sports car with stick shift. Those who master it end up really looking great, those who don’t will grind the gears.

We are very mindful of what stacks on us at what time. I have no problem stopping my attack for 6 seconds and letting confusion wear off.

@delusion
imo you have to be clear about wvw or tpvp.
in wvw your build is fine, but I would change chaos 5 → 2 because you are very tanky and need some more dps. and perhaps illusions 5 → 6 but that is a matter of playstyle. I like 5 more
and imo runes: lyssa to undead. same reason, you need more dps. not cond duration or prec or buffs. undead runes give like 200 cond damage and you will notice that combined with confusion +33%.
in my wvw experience 2/3 kills come from confusion.

in tpvp it is another story. you don’t need 1200 blink, and definately no chaos storm when falling. illusion 6 is very important. normally you def a point so the enemy has to pressure you, no 33% longer confusion needed. but 50% shatter recharge is good for 2 distortions and interrupts. one to tank incoming burst and second to get a safe stomp or to prevent one or something similar. illu VII is very good too.
and try sword/torch. scepter is fail in tpvp imo. you need that 2 sec invul and the aoe root. torch is decent with the buffed mage.
sword also helps with mesmers because with the sword root you will be able to stack a lot more confusion and other conditions. I usually ignore the phantasms, just avoid their attacks and go straight for the mesmer. torch4 and decoy help to spot the mesmer but keep in mind that you won’t def the point while stealthened^^

that is just my opinion. have played this spec in tpvp since bwe3 and in wvw for 2 month.

Keeping in melee range of the Shatter Mesmer, as said, is very useful. It reduces Spatial Surge damage, ensures double hits from Illusionary Elasticity, and ensures your Deceptive Evasion Clones target the real Mesmer.

Zid.4196:

Tsori.8245:

So..your advice was to change to a shatter spec… Lol

That’s how ANet wants us and that’s why they nerfed phantasms despite them being weak to begin with.

Honestly.
I don’t think shattering heavily should be isolated to one build. (Or one handful of it)

It is our class mechanic, and it can be synergized rather well with most other builds.

I don’t really consider myself a Shatter build (despite me being heavy on bursts) any more than a glass cannon thief would consider themselves a “Steal Build”.
Using your unique class mechanic should complement the build/playstyle you use more than it should BE your build.

The day I got really good at being a mesmer was the day I started to actually utilize shatters frequently instead of ignoring them, even though I wasn’t in a shatter build at all.

@EnRohbi:
The problems with that are that it makes phantasm legion (and similar) builds nonviable, which may be what Anet wants. It certainly seems so given the recent balance adjustments. For a game that advertises developing your character how you want to play with the class’ resources, it seems counter-intuitive to enforce such a policy, though.

Another problem with that is how the trait lines are set up, and thus how Anet implements these balance adjustments. It practically forces someone to use the Illusion line for effective play save a few niche or more eccentric builds. Though there are a few general builds out there that don’t use Illusion, but not many.

A final problem is that it also makes the class even more difficult for new players to pick up, since managing illusions plus shatters can get pretty hectic. The class would see a lot more casual players if they could spec into only managing illusions while not having to shatter so much or just being able to shatter on CD while pooping illusions and forgetting about them. Sure they’ll never be great player doing that, but many players just aren’t good at complex video games anyway. They should still be able to enjoy the class.

Clones and Phantasms are NOT pets… we are not a pet class… the whole idea you “phantasm” build people are trying to push is the idea of making phantasms as strong as pets… that is not how the Mesmer is designed. Like EnRohbi notes, shatters are the core mechanic of our entire class not a specific build, all builds should be utilizing shatters. Playing a class while excluding use of it’s core mechanic should NOT be as viable as any builds that include use of the core mechanic… Warriors don’t really make good rangers, and rangers don’t make good tanks, this isn’t restricting build diversity simply because you want to play the class as if it were some other class with different mechanics.

@gaia

Until the masses stop touting the mesmer as an OP pvp profession spvp will continue to be littered with them. Casuals or non. No worries on that front.

@all : You still can run phantasms if that’s your gig. Just don’t go into it thinking they’re going to do all the work for you.

sinican.9250:

Clones and Phantasms are NOT pets… we are not a pet class… the whole idea you “phantasm” build people are trying to push is the idea of making phantasms as strong as pets… that is not how the Mesmer is designed. Like EnRohbi notes, shatters are the core mechanic of our entire class not a specific build, all builds should be utilizing shatters. Playing a class while excluding use of it’s core mechanic should NOT be as viable as any builds that include use of the core mechanic… Warriors don’t really make good rangers, and rangers don’t make good tanks, this isn’t restricting build diversity simply because you want to play the class as if it were some other class with different mechanics.

Shatters are not the core mechanic of the class, Illusions are. Shatters are 4 free utilities that make use of illusions in different ways. You can make a build centered around shatters, much like you can make a build centered around mantras, but that doesn’t make them the core mechanic.

Look at it this way, if shatters did not exist, mesmers would still function but with reduced damage and reduced utility. If Illusions didn’t exist, shatters COULDN’T exist.

Kobeathris.3645:

sinican.9250:

Clones and Phantasms are NOT pets… we are not a pet class… the whole idea you “phantasm” build people are trying to push is the idea of making phantasms as strong as pets… that is not how the Mesmer is designed. Like EnRohbi notes, shatters are the core mechanic of our entire class not a specific build, all builds should be utilizing shatters. Playing a class while excluding use of it’s core mechanic should NOT be as viable as any builds that include use of the core mechanic… Warriors don’t really make good rangers, and rangers don’t make good tanks, this isn’t restricting build diversity simply because you want to play the class as if it were some other class with different mechanics.

Shatters are not the core mechanic of the class, Illusions are. Shatters are 4 free utilities that make use of illusions in different ways. You can make a build centered around shatters, much like you can make a build centered around mantras, but that doesn’t make them the core mechanic.

Look at it this way, if shatters did not exist, mesmers would still function but with reduced damage and reduced utility. If Illusions didn’t exist, shatters COULDN’T exist.

I completely disagree, you have not made a convincing argument at all. The shatters are the core mechanic because those default abilities are by default available to any and all builds created w/o distribution of traits/skills/weapons…. The number of phantasms/clones cannot be maintained indefinitely as clones/phantasms are NOT pets they are temporary “illusions” attached to the target not the Mesmer. If anything the illusions are the utility for delivering the effects of shatters.

If illusions were to be the core mechanic then we would be a pet class and we would have the same default illusions available to all of our builds while the skills/talents would be what activated/enables alternative effects. Likely those illusions would be tied to f1-f4 being from offensive/defensive/control/escape.

With 0 traits, shatters provide: aoe damage, aoe condition damage, daze, and diversion. Illusions provide direct damage, aoe damage, condition damage, boon removal, condition removal, multiple boons, multiple conditions, damage reduction, projectile blocking, as well as being a tanking mechanism. We have a minimum of 2 illusions available at all times. All of the weapon clone skills have shorter cooldowns than Mind Wrack, and all of the weapon Phantasm skills have equal or shorter cooldowns than Cry of Frustration, so they are available more often as well. Just because we have shatters on the f keys, doesn’t make them the core ability. Thieves have steal as their f key, and I would say initiative is their core feature.

He has point in that clones can be used for more than shatters (well except our dear scepter).

Theoretically a power-swd person wants to keep his clones to maintain vulnerability stacks and to cripple when they get blowed up.

The same applies to staff clones. Theoretically you want to maintain them for bleeds and burns.

These are logical uses for clones. Again, theoretically you keep three up and then shatter when you can replace them.

The problem is that shattering them (see shatter specs) is a stronger use in pvp. Many people are not capable of “seeing” other uses or methods because the best (true or perceived) has already been weeded out.

Furthermore mesmer is the profession that utilizes confusion more than any other profession. Shattering is the primary method of stacking confusion.

Shattering should be as much an option as specing for kits, deathshroud , burst skills , etc.. is it? I wouldn’t know as I don’t play those professions and I like confusion so I typically spec for it.

Nueshak.2437:

Ross Biddle.2367:

GS love their range. Blink in real close, mirror image, spawn some clones, and shatter up some hefty confusion. Goodbye power/crit/glass build.

A sound strat if you were fighting anyone other than a mesmer. I think we can all agree we tend to be the smarter fighters in this game because our class is like driving a high performance sports car with stick shift. Those who master it end up really looking great, those who don’t will grind the gears.

We are very mindful of what stacks on us at what time. I have no problem stopping my attack for 6 seconds and letting confusion wear off.

Your response makes sense if the confusion mesmer only has mind wrack for shatter confuse, and/or a sceptre. My build keeps those 6 stacks of confusion (or more, realistically) constantly. Also if you dont put all your eggs in one basket, you can deal good damage AND have powerful CD. So stopping to wait for the confusion to end is… well a dead end.

The gist of the response is, for a GS mes keep the close quarters pressure on.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Nueshak.2437:

Ross Biddle.2367:

GS love their range. Blink in real close, mirror image, spawn some clones, and shatter up some hefty confusion. Goodbye power/crit/glass build.

A sound strat if you were fighting anyone other than a mesmer. I think we can all agree we tend to be the smarter fighters in this game because our class is like driving a high performance sports car with stick shift. Those who master it end up really looking great, those who don’t will grind the gears.

We are very mindful of what stacks on us at what time. I have no problem stopping my attack for 6 seconds and letting confusion wear off.

Your response makes sense if the confusion mesmer only has mind wrack for shatter confuse, and/or a sceptre. My build keeps those 6 stacks of confusion (or more, realistically) constantly. Also if you dont put all your eggs in one basket, you can deal good damage AND have powerful CD. So stopping to wait for the confusion to end is… well a dead end.

The gist of the response is, for a GS mes keep the close quarters pressure on.

what’s your build for confusion? I’m playing around with confusion builds atm and seeing which I like best. If you don’t mind posting your build I’d be grateful. thx

Run a confusion/shatter spec with GS/Staff, image/sig of dom/decoy. 0/20/25/0/25 and see sup. Spam phase retreat (5sec recharge) and they won’t hit you for **** with their sword. Maybe solo roaming mesmers i see in wvw all just suck or something but i never even seen one lowering my hp below 50% in a 1vs1.

Shatter seems to be the agreed upon best way to play the mesmer and the direction ANet clearly wants to take the class into.

Which is a kitten shame since I love playing my 0/20/30/0/20 cond dmg build. We kinda got neutered with the nerf to membrane though. If they’d replace vuln with poison on winds of chaos, maybe we’d have a chance.

As it stands, build shatter or you’re playing it wrong. Sad state of affairs….