Guild Wars 2

I thought we might discuss condi removal. I still don’t think mesmers’ condi removal is where it needs to be, especially in the current meta.

In large groups we can rely on shout guards and others for support, so this mostly focuses on small fights, in which lots of condis can be applied in seconds.

Condi removal on signet use is fairly useless, and removal on shatter is located where you would never take it. This leaves us with slot skills and menders purity. Idisenchanter is great 1v1, but loses potency in any fight larger than 2v2. So we’re basically left with the mantra and null field. Null field is on too long a cooldown for smaller engagements, though it’s good for large fights.

So we’re basically left with menders (build depending) and the mantra. And thus my question is thus: Is this sufficient?

I’d argue it’s still a bit lacking. What i’d really like to see is the inspiration GM trait moved down to master, thus permitting 0/20/0/20/30 shatter builds, or making it a bit more reachable for other builds.

Anyway, just looking for thoughts or ways in which others deal with high condi pressure in the absence of guardian or similar support.

solution is making condition rare again ,not every class brings 1-2 necessary passive condition removal which is just boring and limit build.

For wvw, runes of hoelbrak and lemongrass soup. You lose about 10% dmg but they lose 60% or more. Worth it. Then menders/mantra for the occasional 30 second bleeds.

If you’re going for solo or small group condi removal then to me the mantra is the best choice. I get that you can’t always avoid condi bombs from other classes but it’s aoe condition clear on a 20 sec cd.

Also I’ve said this before but we shouldn’t have better condi removal than we already do without giving up damage. There is no spec that covers everything nor should there be, it wouldn’t be balanced.

Bunda.2691:

I’d argue it’s still a bit lacking. What i’d really like to see is the inspiration GM trait moved down to master, thus permitting 0/20/0/20/30 shatter builds, or making it a bit more reachable for other builds.

While I get where you are comming from I disagree. We would end up with a more supportive version of the current meta build. Where is the build diversity in this? People need to learn making meaningful decisions when it comes to trait choices. Of course, this requires valuable alternatives.

Shattered Conditions is too powerful to be a Master trait because it effects up to 5 targets and it is way better than Restorative Illusions. Nobody would go 30 Inspiration this way. However, I could see Restorative Illusions being moved to the Master tier. The heal should be changed from self only to 5 targets like Shattered Conditions. As a result, Inspiration would have a reasonably valuable shatter Master trait plus an appealing Grandmaster trait.

This way you would have the following options:

• DPS 20/20/0/0/30
• DPS Support Hybrid 0/20/0/20/30
• Support 0/20/0/30/20 or even x/x/x/30/30

Of course, the latter two mean trading off damage. But that is what support is about. If you go full damage you can’t expect to get great condi removal.

@Xaylin
Yeah, I hear you, and both agree that condi removal should come at the coat of dps, and that the aoe of shattered conditions would be a bit powerful at 20. But does anyone take it now as it is, or really does anyone play a support shatter (which is the real question)? Because if not, why no just make it a personal condi removal at 20.

Anyway, the real issue is that the mantra only goes so far, and with the slight decrease in direct damage, our lackluster burst (especially against condi bunkers), and the prolonging of fight, the mantra loses its potency the longer a fight goes on.

I’m not complaining, just looking for workarounds people use. I like the hoelbrak/lemongrass suggestion, but hate to give up travelers, so may just have to rely on mantra+lemongrass for the time being.

Bunda.2691:

@Xaylin
Yeah, I hear you, and both agree that condi removal should come at the coat of dps, and that the aoe of shattered conditions would be a bit powerful at 20. But does anyone take it now as it is, or really does anyone play a support shatter (which is the real question)? Because if not, why no just make it a personal condi removal at 20.

People do not play support shatter because Inspiration lacks a respective trait on the Master level and you would lose DE when going 30 points into it. I think losing DE would be an option if Inspiration had a shatter trait on the Master and Grandmaster level.

If Shattered Conditions was self-only – which by the way would not fit the theme of Inspiration – how would that turn out? The trait on its own might appear balanced. However, when you go 30 Illusions at the same time it would not. You would gain a 4 condition cleanse every 10s with Mind Wrack when picking Illusionary Persona.

Bunda.2691:

I’m not complaining, just looking for workarounds people use. I like the hoelbrak/lemongrass suggestion, but hate to give up travelers, so may just have to rely on mantra+lemongrass for the time being.

Well… you could get Menders Purity which makes you lose the boon stripping, though. But it is good when running Mirror or the Mantra. And as other people suggested, the Mantra of Resolve is pretty great, too. There honestly are no better ways on a Mesmer to get rid of conditions.

We have more condi removal than that. Here’s what I run-

• Traited torch
  - Prestige = 1
  - iMage = +1 on cast, +1 on bounce
• Arcane Thievery (like it for roaming, but can do without it)
• Focus curtain (light field) on top of iWarden (whirl finisher) = cleansing bolts

As to if mesmers need more condi removal? Don’t know. Perhaps instead condi’s need to be brought down instead.

Of course we have more. But Menders Purity and the Mantra of Resolve are undoubtly the most efficient ones. At least from my point of view.

The only reason I find this to be a thing, is mostly because other glass cannon build have a lot more options and don’t need to sacrifice as much power.

Shatter rate + Clones + stats and the corresponding traits build a synergy that although works is left wanting compared to thief, zerk hambow, burst guard, or even in some cases ele.

the amount of set up and easily evaded spike with such a hard shut down (even worse since it’s meta) to net less damage than the other squishies seems a bit lacking. Sure you can just out play everything at a significantly higher skill cap through various means but if I add up the numbers it makes Support or re-roll seem much more appealing.

The thing about shattered conditions is that it actually meshes really well with shatter builds, in that it forces you to choose between shattering for offense or defense. This is a great melding of traits that make a playstle more dynamic, forcing choices depending on the situation. The most fun builds are where you are always on the edge deciding what to do, but similarly have lots of options (an advantage of, say, ele or engi).

The new “on-hit” sigils of purity coming with the new patch will be a pretty awesome means to augment condition management, especially since you can slot something more build focused on the 2nd sigil.

Bunda.2691:

The thing about shattered conditions is that it actually meshes really well with shatter builds, in that it forces you to choose between shattering for offense or defense.

Sorta true, but actually not.

The thing about shattered conditions is that taking it means you can’t shatter for offense because your shatters don’t hurt at all.

Pyroathiest.4168:

Bunda.2691:

The thing about shattered conditions is that it actually meshes really well with shatter builds, in that it forces you to choose between shattering for offense or defense.

Sorta true, but actually not.

The thing about shattered conditions is that taking it means you can’t shatter for offense because your shatters don’t hurt at all.

Because of where it’s located. It’d be cool if the traits were located to allow that gameplay style.

Pyroathiest.4168:

Bunda.2691:

The thing about shattered conditions is that it actually meshes really well with shatter builds, in that it forces you to choose between shattering for offense or defense.

Sorta true, but actually not.

The thing about shattered conditions is that taking it means you can’t shatter for offense because your shatters don’t hurt at all.

It is a bit exaggerated when saying that the shatters won’t hurt at all. Actually, when not encountering someone with a high Protection uptime a 10/0/0/30/30 will deal only slightly less damage than the current 20/20/0/0/30. Of course, the shatters will be less frequent. But there has to be some trade off for getting a group condition cleanse, right?

Furthermore, this is something which won’t change if Shattered Conditions was moved to the Master tier. You would still have to decide wether to go 20 Domination for more reliable and higher burst or 20 Duelling for more frequent shatters.

For Spvp mesmers have to build specifically for condition removal and lose dps, utility (boon removal) and survival (decoy or blink)kittenter spec.

Compare this to a thief who doesn’t have to sacrifice anything. Shadowstep removes 3 conditions and infiltrators strike removes 1 on return(with no CD), aswell as 45sec cd lyssa cd with basilisk. It would be like us having blink remove 3 conditions and illusionary leap and phase retreat removing 1. It makes more sense for the staff to have condition removal than the thiefs teleporting skills imo.

What bugs me is the fact that it’s either use a utility slot for condi cleanse or use heal mantra/mirror + MP. Anything less than either of those doesn’t seem like enough, and there are so many good utilities I would rather have.

In WvW I would agree that lemongrass food helps a lot if you’re struggling with condis in your build. In spvp it’s all about runes of Lyssa.

Try being a Ranger.

Try being a Ranger.