Guild Wars 2

Why are condition phantasms so completely overshadowed by power phantasms?
With condition phantasms I’m referring to Warlock and Mage, while power phantasms would be Duelist and Berserker (even though Duelist is useful in condition builds via traits, but not by default).

Both condition phantasms have a fairly slow moving projectile attack with a crappy range which is almost guaranteed to miss the first hit if the target is moving erratic at all and you’re not in melee range when casting (which you probably shouldn’t be).

On the other hand, power phantasms are much much better. The berserker pretty much always hits the target, does very good single target (especially against a wall/obstacle) and also heavy aoe DPS. The Duelist’s Projectiles track the target even when stealthed and it’s so many projectiles that you’re almost guaranteed to get a few in.

So can we get some love for condition phantasms please? Right now they’re barely worth the casting time except for shattering them right after.

Phantasmal Warlock is very much a power phantasm, despite it getting bonus damage from conditions. Under normal grouping conditions, there will be enough conditions stacked on any reasonably tough enemy for a power-based Warlock to hit like a truck. His bonuses come from the number of types of conditions, not how high those conditions are stacked, and so a solo condition mesmer isn’t going to really exploit that potential.

That leaves Phantasmal Mage as the only, theoretically speaking, condition phantasm. We don’t like to talk about him in polite conversation.

In general, mesmers don’t have a “condition weapon”, and I feel this caries over to the phantasms as well. Some will claim that the scepter or the staff are, but any necromancer or thief will laugh at that. Mesmer conditions mostly come from traits and shatters, making anything that properly supports them a condition weapon or phantasm.

I believe Duelist and Berserker are probably the favorites in this regard, just for how often they hit, but I leave that discussion to more experienced fingers.

Id go so far as to say that the iWarlock is a Power phant.

sure it does more DPS with each condition, but power builds still get a majority of those same conditions applied (assuming the same weapons are being used**) they just don’t do as much damage…. so, yea… id say iMage is the only true condition Phant.

Also, assuming your traited correctly etc, Zerker and Duelist can be used somewhat effectively in a pure condition build… they do (if your crit% is high..) apply a fair amount of bleeds from being traited correctly… I wouldn’t say this is the most optimal thing to do, but its ‘doable’ …

just my 2c.

Removed because my answer was the same as both of the posters above me (stupid slow typing skills)

Clockwork Bard.3105:

Phantasmal Warlock is very much a power phantasm, despite it getting bonus damage from conditions. Under normal grouping conditions, there will be enough conditions stacked on any reasonably tough enemy for a power-based Warlock to hit like a truck. His bonuses come from the number of types of conditions, not how high those conditions are stacked, and so a solo condition mesmer isn’t going to really exploit that potential.

That leaves Phantasmal Mage as the only, theoretically speaking, condition phantasm. We don’t like to talk about him in polite conversation.

In general, mesmers don’t have a “condition weapon”, and I feel this caries over to the phantasms as well. Some will claim that the scepter or the staff are, but any necromancer or thief will laugh at that. Mesmer conditions mostly come from traits and shatters, making anything that properly supports them a condition weapon or phantasm.

I believe Duelist and Berserker are probably the favorites in this regard, just for how often they hit, but I leave that discussion to more experienced fingers.

Actually, condition traits like sharper images and debilitating dissipation are on the same level of weapon skills like illusionary counter, confusing images, the prestige, wind of chaos, chaos storm. Cry of frustration is not that good since you lose staff clones damage and on death effect.
If necros and thieves laugh at staff and scepter im sorry for them.

For the OP, there are clones for condition build. They attack faster and this is good for sharper images, and they also work with on death traits.
A strong iMage could change some things tho.

There’s no such thing as condi phantasm. iMage and its crappy 3 stacks of confusion does nothing. iDuelist is the only that could be considered a condi phantasm but that requires a certain trait which nullifies this as a condi phant. But wait! we have iWhaler left!!! who cares, its an underwater skill.

The iMage is the only true “condition” weapon skill phantasm, even though it does do a small amount of damage. The others are power all the way, as they all potentially can do obscene amounts of damage and inherently possess no condition applying qualities (except zerker but that’s cc). It’s all direct damage. Sure, buff the iMage, but we’ve been singing that song for months. Maybe add another condition type phantasm utility for us to use.

skcamow.3527:

The iMage is the only true “condition” weapon skill phantasm, even though it does do a small amount of damage. The others are power all the way, as they all potentially can do obscene amounts of damage and inherently possess no condition applying qualities (except zerker but that’s cc). It’s all direct damage. Sure, buff the iMage, but we’ve been singing that song for months. Maybe add another condition type phantasm utility for us to use.

iWhaler is the only true condi phantasm. 4 stacks of confusion and 4 hits which may be 4 additional stacks of bleeding

Nuka Cola.8520:

skcamow.3527:

The iMage is the only true “condition” weapon skill phantasm, even though it does do a small amount of damage. The others are power all the way, as they all potentially can do obscene amounts of damage and inherently possess no condition applying qualities (except zerker but that’s cc). It’s all direct damage. Sure, buff the iMage, but we’ve been singing that song for months. Maybe add another condition type phantasm utility for us to use.

iWhaler is the only true condi phantasm. 4 stacks of confusion and 4 hits which may be 4 additional stacks of bleeding

I would argue the iMage, but you’re right about the iWhaler. Problem is, as you pointed out, it’s an underwater phantasm (who cares/not on my radar).

iWhaler used to be such a better condition Phantasm though. Confusion that you cannot apply at the right moment is generally useless. Back when iWhaler had bleeds on his attacks (and even more bleeds from Sharper Images), he was a beast.

Agreeing with those saying that iDualist and iBerzerker are the real condition Phantasms (when traited and high crit). I’ve used a crit-bleed Mesmer build since September, and iDualist and iBerzerker were some of my bet damaging attacks (as well as iWhaler underwater… RIP).

Levitas.1953:

Clockwork Bard.3105:

Phantasmal Warlock is very much a power phantasm, despite it getting bonus damage from conditions. Under normal grouping conditions, there will be enough conditions stacked on any reasonably tough enemy for a power-based Warlock to hit like a truck. His bonuses come from the number of types of conditions, not how high those conditions are stacked, and so a solo condition mesmer isn’t going to really exploit that potential.

That leaves Phantasmal Mage as the only, theoretically speaking, condition phantasm. We don’t like to talk about him in polite conversation.

In general, mesmers don’t have a “condition weapon”, and I feel this caries over to the phantasms as well. Some will claim that the scepter or the staff are, but any necromancer or thief will laugh at that. Mesmer conditions mostly come from traits and shatters, making anything that properly supports them a condition weapon or phantasm.

I believe Duelist and Berserker are probably the favorites in this regard, just for how often they hit, but I leave that discussion to more experienced fingers.

Actually, condition traits like sharper images and debilitating dissipation are on the same level of weapon skills like illusionary counter, confusing images, the prestige, wind of chaos, chaos storm. Cry of frustration is not that good since you lose staff clones damage and on death effect.
If necros and thieves laugh at staff and scepter im sorry for them.

I think I didn’t convey my meaning clearly. For a thief with P/D or a scepter necromancer, you’re a condition build upon picking up your weapon. You can fight it, but it’s either on uphill battle or a state of denial, depending on who you ask. A scepter necro will typically take his 30 points in Curses, stack on his Rabid gear that seems suspiciously tailored just for him and roll from there. A P/D thief will stack on his equally suspiciously convenient Carrion gear and build however he wants cuz it doesn’t matter so long as he brought his Caltrops and perma-stealth. There’s always going to be exceptions to the rules, but the stigma is potent.

Mesmer has no strictly condition weapon like this. Scepter and Staff play nice with conditions, but you can stack power on them and they perform admirably without doing anything special. Conversely the Greatsword, which has no damaging conditions, makes rather impressive use of Sharper Images due to its very rapid attacks, and can backup a condition build reasonably well. Mesmers gain a lot of weapon flexibility from their severe build dependency.

The way I see it, phantasms are designed to provide burst dmg. That’s why condition phantasms do not work. About that iMage, I have no comment apart from totally hopeless.

Many people explained already about phantasm, they are very power related. ALL phantasm are about power. Even iMage is power related, let me explain.

iMage can put confusion, but it gives you a choice to play power or condi. Retaliation = Power, Confusion = Condition. I feel retaliation is more reliable since it’s ON you, not on someone in particular/precisely. It means, you will trigger retaliation on everyone hitting you. Then, the damage scales with power.

If you want to play condi phantasm, iDuelist is the way to go, only if it is traited. 100 % projectile combo and bleed. Crit bleed condi Mesmer rely on iZerker and iDuelist. Not many people are using this build, but I bet it’s going to be more and more popular soon, like it happened with PU.

Clockwork Bard.3105:

That leaves Phantasmal Mage as the only, theoretically speaking, condition phantasm. We don’t like to talk about him in polite conversation.

I lolled.

Yeah iMage could be considered a condi phantasm if any of them is at all. And within the boundaries of mesmer profession, scepter, torch and even staff can be called condi weapons. Staff goes hybrid but you get the most juice out of it -damage-wise- with a condi build.

Serhend.6382:

Yeah iMage could be considered a condi phantasm if any of them is at all. And within the boundaries of mesmer profession, scepter, torch and even staff can be called condi weapons. Staff goes hybrid but you get the most juice out of it -damage-wise- with a condi build.

Exactly. I think it’s a bit disingenuous to only talk about the Phants rather then the whole weapon they’re based off. Seeing them as such you can clearly see that each weapon is meant to provide BOTH the ability to use conditions or pure power. Thankfully if you ask me! The iMage is actually better then most people give it credit for, but it’s impact is just not as directly visible as the others. It doesn’t have that satisfying feeling of PWN about it, but it supports a condi play-style quite well, and at least with PU the weapon it’s based off is more then viable.

As stated above, currently it’s clones that apply conditions most consistently for Mesmers, and it would be sad to have that nerfed to where clones are doing neither any DD nor any condi-damage, just to get pigeonholed into a single fully condie-focused Phantasm.

If you boost the iMage significantly, you’re going to have to nerf something else, because quite frankly Torch is already very strong with PU in a condie-focused build. And the current iMage fits that kinda build very well, because he adds a few more ways to “nickel & dime” your opponent to death without them fully understanding what’s going on. That’s the Mesmer way!

With the Scepters new Torment being as strong as it is, I don’t see the iMage getting improvements anytime soon. I’ve beaten plenty of condie-built Thieves and even Necros as a pure condie Mesmer, so we’re hardly in dire need of more condition DPS output.

I am liking the choices we have now. Scepter is definitely more Condie oriented as compared to Sword, but the OHs are really quite hybrid, as are the 2hers.

With Shaper Images and Phantasmal Fury, the Duellist and the Warden are great at stacking bleeds.

Once upon a time Phantasms could proc sigils so you could stack it with sigils of earth and it was actually pretty fun to run.

Of course that made something that wasn’t shatter somewhat viable in spvp so naturally it was nerfed into oblivion.

I’m in love with iDuellist for condition builds.

I mix it with Nullfield/Feedback to get easy stacks of confusion. If you have two up + scepter confusion its easy to get 17+ stacks, as well as the bleeding of course.

For that alone I’d at least consider iDuellist to be hybrid(ish) phantasm – even if not intended to be one.

Nuka Cola.8520:

There’s no such thing as condi phantasm. iMage and its crappy 3 stacks of confusion does nothing. iDuelist is the only that could be considered a condi phantasm but that requires a certain trait which nullifies this as a condi phant. But wait! we have iWhaler left!!! who cares, its an underwater skill.

First you say there is no such thing, and then you acknowledge said thing, and then call it crappy. Sorry but but there is such a thing as a condi phantasm, your ignorance to the facts however is another story. Does it exist? Yes. Debate finished, get over yourself.

Countless

Trigr.6481:

Nuka Cola.8520:

There’s no such thing as condi phantasm. iMage and its crappy 3 stacks of confusion does nothing. iDuelist is the only that could be considered a condi phantasm but that requires a certain trait which nullifies this as a condi phant. But wait! we have iWhaler left!!! who cares, its an underwater skill.

First you say there is no such thing, and then you acknowledge said thing, and then call it crappy. Sorry but but there is such a thing as a condi phantasm, your ignorance to the facts however is another story. Does it exist? Yes. Debate finished, get over yourself.

Countless

I think you don’t understand what a condi phantasm is lolz. Every phantasm except maybe and that just a maybe iWhaler scales better with power (including iMage and its given retaliation). There’s no phantasms that apply multiple damaging condis such as burning/poison/torment/bleeds with very low base damage so the whole phantasm would be truly considered a ‘condition phantasm’. People find ‘the most’ condi oriented phantasm from what’s available but that doesn’t mean we have a true condi phantasm available now. iDuelist is by far the one that would deal the most condi damage on a single target but it requires high enough crit chance, SI and Phantasmal Fury which negates this being a condi phantasm because of this requirement. Its just another phantasm that ‘could work’ in a condi build but isn’t a condi phantasm. Does a real phantasm that deals in pure condi damage exist? No. Debate finished, get over yourself lol.

Are real only condition phantasms are not phantasms at all but staff clones with bleeds on crit.

Nuka Cola.8520:

Trigr.6481:

Nuka Cola.8520:

There’s no such thing as condi phantasm. iMage and its crappy 3 stacks of confusion does nothing. iDuelist is the only that could be considered a condi phantasm but that requires a certain trait which nullifies this as a condi phant. But wait! we have iWhaler left!!! who cares, its an underwater skill.

First you say there is no such thing, and then you acknowledge said thing, and then call it crappy. Sorry but but there is such a thing as a condi phantasm, your ignorance to the facts however is another story. Does it exist? Yes. Debate finished, get over yourself.

Countless

I think you don’t understand what a condi phantasm is lolz. Every phantasm except maybe and that just a maybe iWhaler scales better with power (including iMage and its given retaliation). There’s no phantasms that apply multiple damaging condis such as burning/poison/torment/bleeds with very low base damage so the whole phantasm would be truly considered a ‘condition phantasm’. People find ‘the most’ condi oriented phantasm from what’s available but that doesn’t mean we have a true condi phantasm available now. iDuelist is by far the one that would deal the most condi damage on a single target but it requires high enough crit chance, SI and Phantasmal Fury which negates this being a condi phantasm because of this requirement. Its just another phantasm that ‘could work’ in a condi build but isn’t a condi phantasm. Does a real phantasm that deals in pure condi damage exist? No. Debate finished, get over yourself lol.

Sorry friend but mocking me doesn’t really help your argument. And now you are trying to change your story once again. A phantasm does not need to stack multiple conditions in order for it to be considered a condition phantasm, I guess you are unable to comprehend this simple fact. It exists yes, debating if its good is anyone’s opinion. Therefore you are wrong, accept it. Coming back at me with no argument and opinion gets you nowhere. And to top it all off, I’ve personally made a condi phantasm build that works in high level play along with other mesmer spec’s depending on the map. If you don’t believe me. Contact me anytime. We will be happy to play you, and to put your “opinion” to rest.

Countless

Trigr.6481:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Trigr.6481:

Nuka Cola.8520:

There’s no such thing as condi phantasm. iMage and its crappy 3 stacks of confusion does nothing. iDuelist is the only that could be considered a condi phantasm but that requires a certain trait which nullifies this as a condi phant. But wait! we have iWhaler left!!! who cares, its an underwater skill.

First you say there is no such thing, and then you acknowledge said thing, and then call it crappy. Sorry but but there is such a thing as a condi phantasm, your ignorance to the facts however is another story. Does it exist? Yes. Debate finished, get over yourself.

Countless

I think you don’t understand what a condi phantasm is lolz. Every phantasm except maybe and that just a maybe iWhaler scales better with power (including iMage and its given retaliation). There’s no phantasms that apply multiple damaging condis such as burning/poison/torment/bleeds with very low base damage so the whole phantasm would be truly considered a ‘condition phantasm’. People find ‘the most’ condi oriented phantasm from what’s available but that doesn’t mean we have a true condi phantasm available now. iDuelist is by far the one that would deal the most condi damage on a single target but it requires high enough crit chance, SI and Phantasmal Fury which negates this being a condi phantasm because of this requirement. Its just another phantasm that ‘could work’ in a condi build but isn’t a condi phantasm. Does a real phantasm that deals in pure condi damage exist? No. Debate finished, get over yourself lol.

Sorry friend but mocking me doesn’t really help your argument. And now you are trying to change your story once again. A phantasm does not need to stack multiple conditions in order for it to be considered a condition phantasm, I guess you are unable to comprehend this simple fact. It exists yes, debating if its good is anyone’s opinion. Therefore you are wrong, accept it. Coming back at me with no argument and opinion gets you nowhere. And to top it all off, I’ve personally made a condi phantasm build that works in high level play along with other mesmer spec’s depending on the map. If you don’t believe me. Contact me anytime. We will be happy to play you, and to put your “opinion” to rest.

Countless

Reading this post sounds like you’re mad? Did i annoy you in spvp or something? like seriously, you’re like one of those kids in halo 3 with their “my opinion>yours so 1v1 me”. Why so serious, breh? its a forum, wake up. A condi phantasm scales with condi damage and without SI/high crit there’s not a single phantasm that does that, high condi damage. get over it and accept facts. If i see you in spvp let me know so i could dance on your dead body since you’re so easily annoyed, thanks