Guild Wars 2

So everyone knows its a nightmare for us, How do you protect yourself from them? I find it a bit annoying to say the least that we can only get access to removing them from traits or a Poor 45 second cool down skill that can be dodged and that only transfers 3 conditions or a terrible AoE which you can easily be knocked/feared out of with a 40 second cool down. This in a Meta where you can easily have 5+ instantly applied.

The moment i come up against a condition build i simply know that i will either be forced to run or die. Unless i actually TRAIT for them it seems very weak and no matter how you are looking at it you are making yourself weaker either by having to take certain traits or taking certain utilities.

Now i know that we cant be masters of everything, but what exactly do we get in return for this big target above us saying “lol kill me with conditions”

We really have no good answer for getting hit with 5+ conditions at once, but if it’s any consolation, most other classes would struggle with 5+ as well.

That said, I generally find that regen (to which we have pretty good access) plus one of a) traited torch, b) arcane theivery, or c) mender’s purity + mantra of recovery to be more than sufficient. Regeneration + mango pie or lemmongrass poultry can do a wonderful job counteracting heavy condition pressure.

Then again, it’d be nice to have at least one passive and/or weapon skill condi removal.

well i do melt vs a necro for sure in wvw, but remember necros dont have stability either. blink away form them (and the zerg if u are in wvw). pull the necro or interrupt him, then cleanse and dump everything u have on him, rinse and repeat.
the problem is that we lack aoe a lot in wvw, so we are kinda forced to move into midlle or even frontline if we wanna do dmg in a zerg. anet has to fix the mesmer as we are not a medium armor class and as a light armor, we should have viable access to aoe, condis, cc’s , stuns and bad stats. as a light armor it is hard to survive in close combat in a zerg. we are simply stuck as a duelist right now. our stunbreakers and condition cleansings need improvements and also aoe and multi target skills as anet hasnt given us anything back since the bb and confusion nerf.
right now the other classes have received many many buffs, so how about giving us a little confusion back?

Why do people think their class should be able to do it all? Every class has to have a weakness, something it’s not as good at as other classes.

Mesmers have a hard time dealing with conditions. A hard time, not an impossible time. We have a lot of condition removal options, you just might have to give up a trait or utility slot to access them. That’s the way it should be.

I agree with Joonks. Imagine what it would be like if Mesmers could cleanse condi as well as they could apply them. Oh wait, they can, but Anet designed it to be a

you lose some you get some mechanism. meaning to do something well, you do poorly in another area.

If mesmers were masters of condition manipulation and still did everything else well, then the whole game would consist of Mesmers. thus it will become Alpha Mesmer Wars 2.

If you can perserve your utility skills in a duel, and know when it is ok to take some damage, so that your long term survive is increased, well, that is better than having a million condi removal at your disposal and just spamming all of them each time you see one condi pop out on your character.

Now that I think about it – you’re the same person who made a post complaining about mesmer movement speed just a few days ago, even though there are plenty of options for overcoming that weakness. Yes you have to give something up, but that’s fair.

Just be careful what you wish for (and complain about). We have viable builds for so many different types of content (dungeons, fractals, PvP, WvW roaming). I think mesmers are in a great place right now and I would much rather keep our current weaknesses of condition removal and movement speed than have them “re-balance” mesmer abilities.

Joonks.7501:

Now that I think about it – you’re the same person who made a post complaining about mesmer movement speed just a few days ago, even though there are plenty of options for overcoming that weakness. Yes you have to give something up, but that’s fair.

Just be careful what you wish for (and complain about). We have viable builds for so many different types of content (dungeons, fractals, PvP, WvW roaming). I think mesmers are in a great place right now and I would much rather keep our current weaknesses of condition removal and movement speed than have them “re-balance” mesmer abilities.

sry joonk but i gotta disagree with u.
dungeon, yes we are ok, spvp 1v1 1v2 we are alright
wvw we are only alright as roamers, but in zergs we need buffs. we lack aoe, we lack cleansing and we lack out of combat speed too. in combat we can blink and stuff but that about it.

i face massive hammer trains atm in wvw and sry but my stunbreakers and cleansers are not able to keep up with this horrible meta we are in. all i can do is speccing for some form of glambuild and watch the fight from the backline and hope i can tag something. a warrior/guardian train vs a mesmer groub is pretty much not a fair fight as everything u do is causing mass retal and the mass cc will lock u down to death in seconds. as a light armor class we have not enough access to viable aoe as our clones die before reaching.
necros are at a way better spot right now.
in wvw commanders will demand u to be their veilbot and portal bot and tw bot and that it. u cannot kill a warrior by yourself anymore unless u are in a 1v1.
warriors have it all massive healing, massive cc, great dps, great mibility, great out of combat speed, great condition cleansing and awesome toughness and vitality and armor. so yeah warriors got it all.
necros have weak spots like the lack of stability though. also if u manage it past the marks and the condibomb autoattacks u can actually put enough pressure on them to beat them, but agin not in a groupfight.
mesmers are good in a duel tough, but a class should have also group and team dps build options.

selan.8354:

sry joonk but i gotta disagree with u.
dungeon, yes we are ok, spvp 1v1 1v2 we are alright
wvw we are only alright as roamers, but in zergs we need buffs. we lack aoe, we lack cleansing and we lack out of combat speed too. in combat we can blink and stuff but that about it.

These are the typical comments of a dissatisfied mesmer player. Maybe it’s the whole “grass is always greener” thing, but it’s simply not true. We are more than “ok” in dungeons, we are one of the most desired professions to have in a dungeon/fractal run. We are so much more than “only alright” as WvW roamers. I win the majority of encounters while roaming in WvW and every fight I’ve lost I felt was due to simply being outplayed, not because of some flaw inherent in the profession. Yes, even against the infamous stun warrior.

I will yield to you on the zerg issue though, as I don’t enjoy the zerg playstyle and so don’t have enough experience with it to really comment. But don’t shortchange our capabilities in other areas of the game!

If we could stop being so focused on other classes (the warrior) and cherry-picking capabilities we’re envious of, maybe we could get over the self-imposed perception of mesmers as handicapped and come to realize how awesome, capable and unique they are.

I agree with Joonks a second time. We never really think about what we are complaining about and just throw all our minor class problems on the thread so that the Devs can ignore. Good ideas every once in a while are great, but the fact that people continue to complain from one patch to the next is what makes the Devs less enthusiastic on improving the class.

Imagine you were the devs, and you are probably working your butt off suggesting ideas to your bosses, and you see that players complain to your every idea, not realizing that they are part of a bigger picture. This would probably make you less inclined to help these players. Just sit tight and enjoy the ride. If you see a Major fault and want to suggest/question to the devs. That is fine. But little problems like this is unneccessary.

Joonks.7501:

selan.8354:

sry joonk but i gotta disagree with u.
dungeon, yes we are ok, spvp 1v1 1v2 we are alright
wvw we are only alright as roamers, but in zergs we need buffs. we lack aoe, we lack cleansing and we lack out of combat speed too. in combat we can blink and stuff but that about it.

These are the typical comments of a dissatisfied mesmer player. Maybe it’s the whole “grass is always greener” thing, but it’s simply not true. We are more than “ok” in dungeons, we are one of the most desired professions to have in a dungeon/fractal run. We are so much more than “only alright” as WvW roamers. I win the majority of encounters while roaming in WvW and every fight I’ve lost I felt was due to simply being outplayed, not because of some flaw inherent in the profession. Yes, even against the infamous stun warrior.

I will yield to you on the zerg issue though, as I don’t enjoy the zerg playstyle and so don’t have enough experience with it to really comment. But don’t shortchange our capabilities in other areas of the game!

If we could stop being so focused on other classes (the warrior) and cherry-picking capabilities we’re envious of, maybe we could get over the self-imposed perception of mesmers as handicapped and come to realize how awesome, capable and unique they are.

well ok you are a roamer. well roamingis almost like spvp. but wvw is a group pv play and with groups i mean lager than what u see in spvp. mesmers already sruggle in tpvp atm due to the heavy condi and cc meta. i made it clear that i was talking about wvw zerg fights and as a roamer of course u dont see the issues mesmers face in zergs. being downgraded to portal/veil/tw bot is not ok. im also not a support kinda player.

your pov is again from a small fight pov. yeah if i go roaming, i change my build to my spvp build and warriors alone arent any problem. but im coming from a zvz persepective where the mesmer really could use some love and warriors need a tone down. and its not only mesmers that need help in that are. rangers need help there too. eles need help in spvp but in wvw they are in agreat spot…etc. its all ametter of perspective and from my experience in zerg fights daily i think mesmers are ready for a wvw buff.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

So everyone knows its a nightmare for us, How do you protect yourself from them? I find it a bit annoying to say the least that we can only get access to removing them from traits or a Poor 45 second cool down skill that can be dodged and that only transfers 3 conditions or a terrible AoE which you can easily be knocked/feared out of with a 40 second cool down. This in a Meta where you can easily have 5+ instantly applied.

The moment i come up against a condition build i simply know that i will either be forced to run or die. Unless i actually TRAIT for them it seems very weak and no matter how you are looking at it you are making yourself weaker either by having to take certain traits or taking certain utilities.

Now i know that we cant be masters of everything, but what exactly do we get in return for this big target above us saying “lol kill me with conditions”

I don’t know if you play sPvP, or WvWvW, but I can speak from an sPvP point of view. I run an interrupt build that has manipulation skills on a shorter cooldown, so I run arcane thievery which works whenever I’m in a jam and need to cleanse a few conditions, but mostly I try to play a prevent style of defense against condition builds, and really all builds for that matter.

Since I have an interrupt build, I always try to lockdown an opposing opponent and interrupt/daze/immobilize them so that they can’t get off any of their skills. If I can burst them down quick enough and/or keep them locked down long enough, I can put them on the defensive and not have to worry too much about being bombarded with conditions.

Again this is from a tPvP point of view, I’ve only played WvWvW a few times so I don’t really have any insight there.

And just as a disclaimer, there will always be times where you get bombarded with conditions and there isn’t much you can do about it.

benOTK.4961:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

So everyone knows its a nightmare for us, How do you protect yourself from them? I find it a bit annoying to say the least that we can only get access to removing them from traits or a Poor 45 second cool down skill that can be dodged and that only transfers 3 conditions or a terrible AoE which you can easily be knocked/feared out of with a 40 second cool down. This in a Meta where you can easily have 5+ instantly applied.

The moment i come up against a condition build i simply know that i will either be forced to run or die. Unless i actually TRAIT for them it seems very weak and no matter how you are looking at it you are making yourself weaker either by having to take certain traits or taking certain utilities.

Now i know that we cant be masters of everything, but what exactly do we get in return for this big target above us saying “lol kill me with conditions”

I don’t know if you play sPvP, or WvWvW, but I can speak from an sPvP point of view. I run an interrupt build that has manipulation skills on a shorter cooldown, so I run arcane thievery which works whenever I’m in a jam and need to cleanse a few conditions, but mostly I try to play a prevent style of defense against condition builds, and really all builds for that matter.

Since I have an interrupt build, I always try to lockdown an opposing opponent and interrupt/daze/immobilize them so that they can’t get off any of their skills. If I can burst them down quick enough and/or keep them locked down long enough, I can put them on the defensive and not have to worry too much about being bombarded with conditions.

Again this is from a tPvP point of view, I’ve only played WvWvW a few times so I don’t really have any insight there.

And just as a disclaimer, there will always be times where you get bombarded with conditions and there isn’t much you can do about it.

arcane thievery has an insane cooldown and fails way too often. and sry im a wvw player and fight in zergs. the amount of condis there is insane and mesmers are due to no stability and no condition cleansing that is viable, stuck as veil/tw/portal bots as we lack aoes and even the traited stuff requires clonse and a successful shatter which wont happen as the clones die instantly in a zerg.
u see even more rangers than mesmers atm.
anet hates mesmers abecause they aregood in duels ad spvp. i have no issues in spvp since i found my new build. if i die its due to a mistacke that i mad vs a cc spammer.

warriors are plain op atm so losing vs them doesnt really count.

in wvw the cc is insane the necros are insane, engis are powerful, eles are powerful. even rangers can hit u hard there, but mesmers are a light armor class and as a light armor class it doesent make any sense to not give us more viable aoes and condi access. also we need more cc to keep the enemy off us. aoe that doesnet require clones to shatter.clones die instantly in a zerg. u get blinded so often in wvw, getting a phantasm out is already hard and then it dis instantly after maybe hitting 2 targets a little. but u cant go glasscannon in zergs so no to that build that u all hate so much in spvp.
they nerfed temporal curtain and took a big junk id survivability away as we needed this to work in to pull the enemy off us.
we need confusion aoe dmg to be viable in wvw as we are a light armor class and our confusion didnt hit nearly as hard as an eles meteor shower or a rangers longbow attacks only if multiple mesmers would stack it then it would hit hard, but c’mon 5 necros can inst eliminate massive numbers with a few marks. thieves can burst u down with a few hits, so why cant our confusion be bursty? they backstab u for 9k easily.

id say buff confusion, unnerf temporal curtain, buff our condition cleansing and please not the mantra one. or at least buff arcane thievery.
give us access to stability
nerf the warrior!!
shave the necro

and buff ele(they really need it) in spvp but not wvw please.again nerf the warrior. then fix the retal spam on guardian. reflections should not trigger retal. u are reflecting an attack not hitting the target so reatal on that does not make sense at all.

and this is a zvz perspective not roaming, not 5v5, not 10 v10 im talking zergs. anet need to separate the game modes seriously!!!!!

@selan: such a see of tears. Get over it and adapt your skills, mesmers are fine.

Everyone laughs or rails at the torch. Trait it, pair it with Powercleanse. Problem solved.

How I hate this ’a warrior does this, a necro does that, a ranger this. Mesmers are broken, We need to have heavy armor with deathshroud and a pet! ’-mentality. Compairing meteor shower with confusion is … lets call it weird!

selan.8354:

blutstein.2468:

@selan: such a see of tears. Get over it and adapt your skills, mesmers are fine.

Everyone laughs or rails at the torch. Trait it, pair it with Powercleanse. Problem solved.

How I hate this ’a warrior does this, a necro does that, a ranger this. Mesmers are broken, We need to have heavy armor with deathshroud and a pet! ’-mentality. Compairing meteor shower with confusion is … lets call it weird!

already adapted way back but we are still not fine in wvw zerg fights unless u wanna be a veilbot or support. i dont enjoy neither of them. like i said in spvp i have absolute no problem with my memer. roaming in wvw is like spvp so same builds.

u fail the point im making. im looking vor viable aoe which we lack inw wvw since the glamnerf. we need something to compensate. the meta has changed a ton so right now its a cc meta where as a mesmer u cant survive very well. (in wvw not spvp not roaming not 1v1 i mean in zergs and big groupfights).

mesmer is a great 1v1 class, great duelist, but id like to have the option to adjust my build and set it for more aoe dmg. im a light armor class not a medium so i cant just run in a zerg like that. u will always be asked to brig veil and serve the other classes with tw and portals.

i dont want deathshroud or a hackslash build like a warrior i want a mesmer aoe that is not ai based as ai is pretty bad in (again wvw zerg/group fights not spvp not roaming, not 1v1)

Joonks.7501:

Now that I think about it – you’re the same person who made a post complaining about mesmer movement speed just a few days ago, even though there are plenty of options for overcoming that weakness. Yes you have to give something up, but that’s fair.

Having to use a VERY expensive rune set shopuld not be acceptable. Neither my Ele or Engineer lose ANYTHING when it comes to increasing movement speed. So many movement skills as well as LOADS of ways to get Swiftness and can even get it Perma swiftness. Engineer ONLY needs 1 kit and 1 trait, no boon duration or anything just ONE kit and ONE trait and boom i have perma swiftness.

“Have to give something up”!? well my Ele doesnt, My Engineer doesnt…
Look at Warriors mobility as well, Thives, Necros, Rangers 25% movement as well as easy access to swiftness.

What do we get? 1 Swiftness on a weapon and a few RNG chances and Blink that is what we have – Dont bother counting Portal, insane cool down and doesnt help you if you are trying to run AWAY from people….

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

So everyone knows its a nightmare for us, How do you protect yourself from them? I find it a bit annoying to say the least that we can only get access to removing them from traits or a Poor 45 second cool down skill that can be dodged and that only transfers 3 conditions or a terrible AoE which you can easily be knocked/feared out of with a 40 second cool down. This in a Meta where you can easily have 5+ instantly applied.

The moment i come up against a condition build i simply know that i will either be forced to run or die. Unless i actually TRAIT for them it seems very weak and no matter how you are looking at it you are making yourself weaker either by having to take certain traits or taking certain utilities.

Now i know that we cant be masters of everything, but what exactly do we get in return for this big target above us saying “lol kill me with conditions”

Meh. It’s possible to have nice condition removal. With mantra of resolve, you can instantly have 6 condi-removal every 22 seconds, with just one utility (and the appropriate traits).