Guild Wars 2

Fay.2357:

On interrupt, as I said earlier, would delete the trait from the game.

If you can only stun on interrupt, then it literally turns the skill into a weak version of CI. A stun is a daze + an immobilize, that can be broken by a single stunbreak. CI applies an immobilize on interrupt, without removing the daze, which means it would be objectively stronger in every way (without even counting the additional condition and boons).

On interrupt is a hilariously awful suggestion that only shows how little people actually think about what they suggest.

LOL, “would delete the trait from the game” . CI is a grandmaster trait and in different trait line which means you dont always always pick these two together. You say the tier of the trait won’t matter, but rather with what two traits it competes with. Fine, let’s take a look at what other two traits you could pick instead of CS then: 1)15% illusion damage bonus or 2) 9s of vulnerability per illusion shattered.

Can you really tell me with a straight face that these two are better than my suggested CS (as a reminder: no icd, dazes stun on interrupts, daze & stun durations increased by 50%)?

tobascodagama.2961:

ASP.8093:

Tealots.6095:

When will it sink in that trait “levels” are irrelevant. If you pick a trait line, you’re all in.

This bears repeating.

Quite. The level of a trait matters only as a means of forcing choices between alternatives that, for balance reasons, need to be mutually-exclusive. Having PU, Chaotic Interruption, and Bountiful Disillusionment compete for the same slot is way more important than ensuring that any of them is “stronger” than, say, Master of Manipulation.

I mean, in general, it’s more intuitive for traits further to the right of the screen to be more powerful — or at least more build-defining — but it doesn’t need to be a hard rule.

Quoted for extra emphasis.

tobascodagama.2961:

ASP.8093:

Tealots.6095:

When will it sink in that trait “levels” are irrelevant. If you pick a trait line, you’re all in.

This bears repeating.

Quite. The level of a trait matters only as a means of forcing choices between alternatives that, for balance reasons, need to be mutually-exclusive. Having PU, Chaotic Interruption, and Bountiful Disillusionment compete for the same slot is way more important than ensuring that any of them is “stronger” than, say, Master of Manipulation.

I mean, in general, it’s more intuitive for traits further to the right of the screen to be more powerful — or at least more build-defining — but it doesn’t need to be a hard rule.

Well, they did say they intended GMs to be “build defining” so I guess the GMs are the only ones that it matters about level. I think they’ve done some good jobs at that…some not so good but it’s wip.

Smirgel.9460:

Fay.2357:

On interrupt, as I said earlier, would delete the trait from the game.

If you can only stun on interrupt, then it literally turns the skill into a weak version of CI. A stun is a daze + an immobilize, that can be broken by a single stunbreak. CI applies an immobilize on interrupt, without removing the daze, which means it would be objectively stronger in every way (without even counting the additional condition and boons).

On interrupt is a hilariously awful suggestion that only shows how little people actually think about what they suggest.

LOL, “would delete the trait from the game” . CI is a grandmaster trait and in different trait line which means you dont always always pick these two together. You say the tier of the trait won’t matter, but rather with what two traits it competes with. Fine, let’s take a look at what other two traits you could pick instead of CS then: 1)15% illusion damage bonus or 2) 9s of vulnerability per illusion shattered.

Can you really tell me with a straight face that these two are better than my suggested CS (as a reminder: no icd, dazes stun on interrupts, daze & stun durations increased by 50%)?

Absolutely. I’d trait CI, have a stronger lockdown on interrupt than your CS could ever give, and take 15% phantasm damage for a harder burst and better sustained damage.

Personally, I’ve always considered that the spirit of a lockdown mesmer, in group play for example, was to stack pressure and shut one person down. At the expense of putting a teammate under a double team, your job is to double team another person on the opposing team in hopes of downing that person before someone on your team gets downed.

In that sense, having this trait re-balanced per your suggestion would be counter-intuitive.

However, I do understand that this particular discussion becomes subject to opinion. But that’s again the price you pay for deciding to stun the necro over the guard (or whatever the example will serve). You will then have to wait 5 seconds before you can choose to stun someone else next.

I don’t entirely disagree with the suggested re-balance, but I can’t say that I wholeheartedly agree.

Fobulous.6790:

Personally, I’ve always considered that the spirit of a lockdown mesmer, in group play for example, was to stack pressure and shut one person down. At the expense of putting a teammate under a double team, your job is to double team another person on the opposing team in hopes of downing that person before someone on your team gets downed.

In that sense, having this trait re-balanced per your suggestion would be counter-intuitive.

However, I do understand that this particular discussion becomes subject to opinion. But that’s again the price you pay for deciding to stun the necro over the guard (or whatever the example will serve). You will then have to wait 5 seconds before you can choose to stun someone else next.

I don’t entirely disagree with the suggested re-balance, but I can’t say that I wholeheartedly agree.

That’s fair enough, but you shouldn’t need to be completely reliant on one trait to make that happen. Indeed, if you really want to do what you’ve described, it’s very possible through the combination of CS, PB, and CI. A lot of Mesmer cc is limited in its aoe nature, and so to really keep someone focused and locked down, you’d have to neglect locking down others too.

However, if that’s not your cup of tea, you should be able to utilize Mesmer aoe disruption capability to its fuller extent. You won’t be able to maintain a full lockdown in aoe, but you should be able to cause some problems. Right now CS does not work, at all, with any aoe daze, and I feel that is a huge oversight, considering Mesmer access to aoe daze, and the fairly unique traiting we would have to take to maximize that access.

What I think would be cool for confounding suggestions is to work kind of like the pistol trait in dueling. 100% chance to stun on adept trait is way too high I think so here is my proposition:
reduce the chance to 33% , increrse the cooldown trait to 10 seconds and give it a 25% ICD reduction when you successfully land a stun/foe. That way you still a major impact on teamfight without being too much overpowered

I’m going to make the same suggestion i made in another thread…

Confounding suggestions- Your control effects (Stun, daze, fear, float, knockdown, etc) last 25% longer. Your control effects remove addition stability.

Get rid of the stun locking entirely, while making it useful for a larger variety of builds.

Switch mental anguish and confounding suggestions as it was before. You either shatter hard and stun lock, or shatter hard with additional damage. Remove the ICD on CS, increase the internal cooldown of mantra of distraction to 10.

leave the kitten ed manta’s alone! to be honest, I could live with CS being deleted entirely, I tend to rely more on CI and PB for lockdown, with harmonious mantras to increase my counterplay. Make CS have another effect, hell make it simply double the duration of stuns and dazes, or maybe increase it’s effect to include moa and leave it as a simple +50% increase to control effects. But do not start talking about nerfing mantra’s which are used well outside of CS builds without seriously thinking about the ramifications.

Zarathustra.1458:

leave the kitten ed manta’s alone! to be honest, I could live with CS being deleted entirely, I tend to rely more on CI and PB for lockdown, with harmonious mantras to increase my counterplay. Make CS have another effect, hell make it simply double the duration of stuns and dazes, or maybe increase it’s effect to include moa and leave it as a simple +50% increase to control effects. But do not start talking about nerfing mantra’s which are used well outside of CS builds without seriously thinking about the ramifications.

This is also acceptable. Mental Anguish and Confounding Suggestions need to switch though.

Although I imagined you would enjoy aoe stunning with mantra of distraction.

The stun is sweet to be sure, but I think combined with the burst we can do I’m going to say at this point it is over the top. I think the stun should be removed and it should increase daze duration by 50-100% and as said by others should be swapped with mental anguish.

I think a 10 sec cd will not stop the qq at all really, given that MW is on basically that cd, so you will still be able to stun every time MW is up.

So only warrior has the monopoly on stunning? I understand the no tell with mantra but removing it is bad.

Would also be nice if there was an indication of when the stun was availiable for the mesmer. An aura surrounding the mesmer perhaps, mainly for counter play. This would also help the mesmer tell when it was off its icd. Then how about turning power lock into a instant projectile? It can reach the target just as fast as it does now, I just think an instant stun deserves a little more counter play.

The main issue with CS is that it gives you a nearly guaranteed burst, because it is an instant-cast 1.2k range stun, and you can cast it while casting mirror blade. And given mesmer’s damage, you really only need to pull this combo off once in a fight to either win outright or at least force the guy to pop a cooldown and flee.

Upping the ICD to 10s isn’t going to change any of the above, except that really bad mesmers who spam MOD off CD will be punished a little bit more.

I think the better change is to make CS apply a stun only on interrupts. This would make it a weaker version of CI, which is fair considering CS is an adept trait and doesn’t require you speccing into a different trait line. If you go dom/duel/chaos for CI, then you’re going to have little-to-no condi cleanse and no PU — but you’ll be stronger at lockdown. If you go dom/duel/insp, then you get more survivability and can take CS for less lockdown potential.

If you guys are so intent on turning the thing into an interrupt trait, why not make CS itself inflict a 3s stun on interrupt with 10s ICD. Nothing more, nothing less. This would make it have a place alongside CI, and would seriously interrupt the stunlock shatter combo you lot are complaining about. Have the CS effect itself inflict the stun btw, not convert anything. It is now suitably boosted and adds another effect that a lockdown mesmer has inflicted, increasing the chance of a high pay out for such a reactive style of play.