Guild Wars 2

Would this be OP? After the nerf doesn’t seem that much worse than applying bleeds. Maybe only on third AA? I think it would definitely be fair if it applied confusion x2 on the third hit.

I can tell you how op it would be: Clones.

But I’d like it to be this way.
even if it was only 3s of confusion you could finally use your scepterclones for something else than just shattering/dying. \o/

Oh man, as a Scepter user I would LOVE that change. But I also think it would be OP in PvP, so odds are we won’t see it happen.

Well I don’t really see the point. I’d rather have the game offer me a 1H ranged weapon which isn’t highly build-specific, and I think that auto-attack conditions, whether by skill or trait, are a horrible idea in the first place.

Yes, conditions need serious help, Confusion more than any other. But still, AA or procced conditions are meh. Rather have much stronger on-demand conditions.

It was the case long time ago. Anet removed the confusion from AA and created the 3rd skill we have now. You guys sound like you started playing after that change.

Anet should finally separate skill versions for pve, pvp and wvw…

Sublimatio.6981:

Anet should finally separate skill versions for pve, pvp and wvw…

Amen. A thousand times Amen. I’m tired of getting shafted due to PvP/WvW balance issues. I don’t like PvP, so I only PvE unless I have to engage in PvP (world completion). Why should I, and players like me, be punished for the PvP issues?

Sethren.8472:

Sublimatio.6981:

Anet should finally separate skill versions for pve, pvp and wvw…

Amen. A thousand times Amen. I’m tired of getting shafted due to PvP/WvW balance issues. I don’t like PvP, so I only PvE unless I have to engage in PvP (world completion). Why should I, and players like me, be punished for the PvP issues?

While I agree with your points, I have to say that this is an issue that appears in almost all MMOs and I doubt GW2 will break that.

Essentially this would double or triple the amount of balancing and skill design coming out of the dev team. Without a monthly subscription to fund all that extra staffing I just don’t see this happening, sadly.

Veruah.5302:

Sethren.8472:

Sublimatio.6981:

Anet should finally separate skill versions for pve, pvp and wvw…

Amen. A thousand times Amen. I’m tired of getting shafted due to PvP/WvW balance issues. I don’t like PvP, so I only PvE unless I have to engage in PvP (world completion). Why should I, and players like me, be punished for the PvP issues?

While I agree with your points, I have to say that this is an issue that appears in almost all MMOs and I doubt GW2 will break that.

Essentially this would double or triple the amount of balancing and skill design coming out of the dev team. Without a monthly subscription to fund all that extra staffing I just don’t see this happening, sadly.

There has always been a solution to this problem.

Make spells/effects etc behave differently. Have an extra tooltip. Problem solved.

EnderzShadow.2506:

Veruah.5302:

Sethren.8472:

Sublimatio.6981:

Anet should finally separate skill versions for pve, pvp and wvw…

Amen. A thousand times Amen. I’m tired of getting shafted due to PvP/WvW balance issues. I don’t like PvP, so I only PvE unless I have to engage in PvP (world completion). Why should I, and players like me, be punished for the PvP issues?

While I agree with your points, I have to say that this is an issue that appears in almost all MMOs and I doubt GW2 will break that.

Essentially this would double or triple the amount of balancing and skill design coming out of the dev team. Without a monthly subscription to fund all that extra staffing I just don’t see this happening, sadly.

There has always been a solution to this problem.

Make spells/effects etc behave differently. Have an extra tooltip. Problem solved.

Right, but designing that means 2-3x more work on the dev team. I doubt they will take us up on this fix.

I love the idea, but it won’t happen. At the very least it won’t happen without a monthly subscription to fund it.

Sublimatio.6981:

Anet should finally separate skill versions for pve, pvp and wvw…

Removing sPvP entirely could have a similarly beneficial effect on overall balancing, and frees up balance/programming resources instead of tripling the load.

And from the engagement we see to their “highly pushed” PvP content, the loss in players will probably be smaller than they fear.

Ofc I know I’m making a silly argument, but they can barely find resources to balance one set of skills for one of 3-6 game modes. What makes you think they could do thrice the work?

1 stack of 3 seconds confusion on second hit in AA chain?

Seeing how fairly often people cut the AA chain short and don’t go all the way to #3, could this be a reasonable compromise?

Curunen.8729:

1 stack of 3 seconds confusion on second hit in AA chain?

Seeing how fairly often people cut the AA chain short and don’t go all the way to #3, could this be a reasonable compromise?

Why do you so want a condition on the AA chain?

Carighan.6758:

Curunen.8729:

1 stack of 3 seconds confusion on second hit in AA chain?

Seeing how fairly often people cut the AA chain short and don’t go all the way to #3, could this be a reasonable compromise?

Why do you so want a condition on the AA chain?

Do I so want a condition?

It’s my first post on the matter and tbh I don’t really give much of a kitten about scepter anyway – not since they nerfed iCounter direct damage and replaced it with half torment…

But I’d rather they go the whole way with scepter and make it a full condition weapon rather than some mediocre hybrid clone generating thing.

In fact, the AA with the scpeter was stacking confusion during the very 1st tests. but they remove it since it was too powerfull.

Confusion is a very powerfull condition it is just impossible to increase the stacking opportunity without totally unbalanced the game.

2 seconds on the second part of the AA chain then – you shouldn’t be able to stack more than a handful with that?

I still say the best solution to scepter AA is to make it a 100% projectile finisher (same for scepter clones). That way confusion can be added but only if an ethereal field is down…also would combo with other fields. Fits mesmers perfectly without getting too condi spammish.

I think the funny thing is how other professions can stack confusion easier and faster than mesmer.

A single skill at melee range from toolkit (5s) or bomb kit (5s) can stack 5 confusions on an engi’s opponent, and static shot stacks 2 confusion (3s). These skills have <20s CD. A traited thief steal can stack 5 confusion instantly as well. An interruption from traited warrior stack 4 confusions (8s), not to mention how easy it is for them to interrupt people.

Mesmer scepter’s confusing images need full 3s hit to stack 5 confusions, with each stack last 5s so more like approximately 3-4 stacks over 6-7s (assuming full hit). iMage stack 3 confusion but doesn’t bounce to the same opponent twice. Our best confusion stacking skills, shatter, have high CD and lower confusion duration than most skills listed above. And your opponent must be really clueless to allow current glamour (high CD btw) to stack high confusions on him.

So I’m behind Curunen’s idea, mesmer can hardly stack confusion in current state and having slightly better confusion accessibility could probably bring our specialty back. Plus who would just let 3 scepter clone hanging around (both mesmer and opponent alike)?

Mesmers can stack a lot of confusion. there are many build which allow that for instance this one is working on PvE.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQRArf7ansISraWqGOoB1aGB1QOZyqo8bbS34RAA-TByCABOoEEgnAAOq/owBBY59H0T/AynAgjU+JIgFB-e

Maybe if they reworked the scepter somewhat

First they would need to lower the physical damage it deals by a good 25%.
Then they could add a short duration confusion (say 1 stack for 5 seconds or 2 stacks for 3 seconds) to ether blast so that scepter clones cannot cast it

rincevent de ankh.6531:

Mesmers can stack a lot of confusion. there are many build which allow that for instance this one is working on PvE.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQRArf7ansISraWqGOoB1aGB1QOZyqo8bbS34RAA-TByCABOoEEgnAAOq/owBBY59H0T/AynAgjU+JIgFB-e

Indeed your build will stack relatively high confusion in PvE, but when OP ask whether it is overpower I think he is referring to WvW/PvP situations. In which case confusing images don’t hit continuously because purple beam is simply a huge telegraph. Glamour won’t hit anyone twice unless he’s really desperate that he has to walk into red circle.

I took out the perplexity runes and duration food/sigil because other professions can use those as well, so I’ll only compare baseline duration + traited condition duration in the following talk. Keep in mind while Domination traitline buffed condition duration by 30%, other professions can do that as well. Master of Misdirection (confusion +33% duration) is the best trait we have, but even then our shatter and iMage’s confusion only last 5.25s. Just barely over most skills (without traitline that boost condition duration) I listed above. Confusing image seems really decent right now (8.75s), but again who would let you keep hitting him with purple beam for full 3s?

With your build you can actually spike a good 15+ stacks of confusion in an ideal situation, but you’ll be burning down most of your skills. It can work, but there’s so much dedication to confusion that you don’t have other reliable conditions, so people will be able to cleanse your confusion if the stacks are high. Or you can stack couple at a time, but other professions can also apply other conditions on top of the 4-5 confusion stacks they applied instantly. Hence I said they can apply confusion in a much faster and easier manner. As mesmers we actually need a huge set up to stack high confusion, while other professions can do that much faster and use remaining time to apply other conditions.

Curunen.8729:

But I’d rather they go the whole way with scepter and make it a full condition weapon rather than some mediocre hybrid clone generating thing.

Hrm, true, I’d rather have it be a good clone-generating weapon.
The hybrid-nature of its damage would then be rather useful, since it’d be a specialized weapon but independent of spec damage output. Need more clones, Scepter. Just need to actually make the scepter output useful, granted. :P

Carighan.6758:

Curunen.8729:

But I’d rather they go the whole way with scepter and make it a full condition weapon rather than some mediocre hybrid clone generating thing.

Hrm, true, I’d rather have it be a good clone-generating weapon.
The hybrid-nature of its damage would then be rather useful, since it’d be a specialized weapon but independent of spec damage output. Need more clones, Scepter. Just need to actually make the scepter output useful, granted. :P

The problem with that idea is the Scepter was intended to be a conditions weapon. What you’re saying would make it a shatter build weapon.

ArenaNet needs to stop dangling the conditions ball (mainly confusion) in front of mesmers only to snatch it away. I have a hard time seeing how the Devs see no fundamental flaw with what they’ve done to the mesmer. They have basically adulterated the class’s primary function. Confusion was OUR debuff. It is the JOB of the mesmer to cause confusion and manipulate its enemies by messing with their minds. ArenaNet builds the class to do that, then they cripple the class to make it harder to do what the class is intended to do. They give confusion to us, then they turn around and make it 10x harder for a mesmer to utilize it, but give it easily to other classes. The two issues are related.

Yeah, true. Confusion from Mesmers is very weak. Especially when comparing Engineer’s and Warrior’s access to it.