Guild Wars 2

Hey everyone,

I just wanted to hear other mesmers’ thoughts on the confusion condition? Here are my pros and cons (add your own! I want to see your thoughts, and ideas on improvement)

Pros:
-Very strong against skill spamming classes (thieves), maybe one of the most potent conditions depending on how fast enemy is auto attacking / using skills.
-Intensity stacking can result in massive damage
-Can be strong against champions/bosses once you know their attack pattern
-True damage

Cons:
-Not very strong against basic mobs (lucky to get 1 tick given mob attack patterns, could be that I’m doing it wrong – let me know if you have different experiences)
-Even with domination duration extension and 33% confusion extension illusions trait, duration is still quite short (easily ignorable by smart players in pvp via kiting, hard to time the high stack damage properly with mobs as the first confusion will already be almost completely ticked down, giving you only a 1-2 second window of high stack confusion to try and time with mob actions)
-Purple

My thoughts on potential improvements:
-Possibly remove intensity stacking and opt for duration. This would require a buff in the condition damage to confusion damage conversion ratio, making confusion more of a slow dot condition rather than a small window spike condition.
-Keep intensity stacking, buff the base duration slightly (maybe in PVE only, to make the window of high intensity confusion on mobs more forgiving)
-Have each new stack of confusion applied increase intensity and refresh duration of the total stacks applied (this requires a base confusion timer across all confusion applying skills, possible reduction in confusion damage to compensate for increased window of higher stacks). The reason I like this idea is because it will remove that very rapid drop off of early confusions timing out as you’re applying ones further down the road, making it easier to actually get damage from high stack confusion instead of getting maybe 1 tick at 5 and 2 at 1-3. The only huge problem I see here is if you were to say standardize all confusion applying skills to be x seconds then you would severely hinder the effectiveness of such traits as the glamour confusions.
-Add confusion damage to channel skills (count each second as an action as opposed to just the execution of the skill)
-Add dodging as a confusable player action (unsure about this one, kinda just came to me earlier. If confusion is supposed to be damage on skill use, dodging is technically a skill and I feel that this would put it on par with other conditions as they damage through dodges).

Let me know what you think / improve my ideas / give your own. I am fully aware that for some of my suggestions a damage nerf might be necessary. I just find confusion to be lackluster because its actual window of effectiveness is too variant to make it as reliable as other conditions, which will do damage regardless of player activity (which is why confusion is unique but I would sacrifice that uniqueness for more reliable pvp/pve damage).

Hi,
Firstly I am a big fan of the current confusion mechanics, it is unique enough and challenging enough to make it a fun mechanic to use. In reference to your points, I thought I would shed more light on how with the current mechanics you can elevate the concerns for improvements and its con’s

(shortened your statements due to length of post)

-Not very strong against basic mobs (lucky to get 1 tick given mob attack patterns, could be that I’m doing it wrong – let me know if you have different experiences)
Confusion against basic mobs is the true challenge, to make confusion viable against current mobs its about creating a consistent stack of confusion as opposed to a burst of confusion, this can be done by cycling F1 and F2 shatters along with Sceptre 1&2 mixed in with your glam skills, done correctly you should be able to maintain 3 stacks on a mob at all times, giving you roughly (with a good condition build) 1200 damage per mob hit, acting like a strong poison or avg burn.

-Even with domination duration extension and 33% confusion extension illusions trait, duration is still quite short
Adding in the veggie pizza (40% condition duration) makes a considerable difference, on top of that there is a post in the forums about condition increase theorycraft (taking into account runes) that cna easily increase your confusion duration for a much larger window.

-Possibly remove intensity stacking and opt for duration.
As with the duration con before, there are quite a few ways to increase duration, the disadvantage of this is that you would no longer want to stack so much into condition damage as it would not make that much of a difference (since you no longer get the multiplier which is what makes stacking condition damage viable) To better deal with this in the current state it comes down to learning the other classes and skills. With that learning you can better time your confusion (classic example – remove conditions guardian, timing and not bursting your confusion until the 3rd cleanse for that 6sec window of opportunity.)
The key with a confusion Mesmer is that we are a finesse combatant, we rely on timings, vision and manipulation of the fight to get the outcome we want

-Keep intensity stacking, buff the base duration slightly (maybe in PVE only, to make the window of high intensity confusion on mobs more forgiving)
PvE, the confusion mesmer’s downfall, the key here is that we have other sources of damage, we are not a one show pony, and as such can adapt and change our damage output with relative ease, if confusion was to work in pve your 100% correct, the longer duration would make it massively more viable, but confusion in PvE should be a supplemental damage source not a primary in our current rendition, which can make us all the more powerful if used as the secondary damage source.

-Have each new stack of confusion applied increase intensity and refresh duration of the total stacks applied.
Alot of this will come back to my previous replies, confusion damage is a manipulated combat method, this would turn it into another head mash damage source instead of one that required finesse to defeat the opponent. I always view the Mesmer as the rapier swordsman, who against a broadsword, scimitar, sabre etc, uses his/her quick wits, superior wisdom and intellect to win the day.

-Add confusion damage to channel skills (count each second as an action as opposed to just the execution of the skill)
You may need to elaborate on this one

-Add dodging as a confusable player action.
When I first read this, I was like that is great, but then had to break down the actual skill, dodge is designed to be an escape from damage. As soon as you start applying damage to an ability that is designed to stop damage it ruins the actual reason behind that ability. The confusion still remanins through the dodge like other condition damages (p.s. other condition damages if their tick is during the dodge, it will not do its damage)

TL:DR
Overall the biggest downfall (or best kept secret for us that love the confusion mesmer) is that it is not a standard build that is designed to just do damage. It is a build that requires alot of finesse, requires the ability to read your opponent, understand the classes you are up against, and best mind read your opponent. Setting up the behaviour of your enemy and then wantching them fall into your trap allows for one of the most rewarding class builds you can play. The downside is that alot of players want results without the planning (not implying this to anyone in particular) so the confusion build escapes the masses. This is the biggest pro to our class build, as it also has a positive effect that the majoirty of enemies do not understand the confusion mesmer as they do not go against one on a regular basis.

I think a good way to improve confusion viability in PVE would be that :

50% of the damage are dealt over time like burning or poisoning
50% of the damage are conditional (when using a skill and not at the end of the action)
stacking in duration instead of intensity

>>> for example with 0 condition damage :

150 damage per sec + 150 damage per sec when the enemy is attacking.

Good for pvp and bad for pve. For pve it rarely ticks so the way to fix that would be to deal damage every time an enemy attacks. It also makes sense because in pvp if you’re attacking, you’re using a skill and that should be the same in pve. Right now its almost as useless as Daze in pve.

The main problem i see with confusion on pve is that enemies attack too slow. Most of times the only attack one time before all the stacks are gone. Even so, its a good way to deal damage over time (on mobs). In www (my case) its a very powerful weapon. Most people don’t realize they got confused until it’s to late.