Guild Wars 2

So it looks like they’re making confusion as useless as it is in spvp for wvw. Sad face… now 100% of mez will be power based just like in spvp.

http://beta.twitch.tv/guildwars2guru/b/396007412

What do the well known glamor mesmers like Kylia think about the change?

Gah! Noo! I can’t watch the link. Can you be more specific about the changes? Is it a dam nerf? What are they doing to our precioussss?

Entropy.4732:

Gah! Noo! I can’t watch the link. Can you be more specific about the changes? Is it a dam nerf? What are they doing to our precioussss?

will deal exact same crappy damage as it is in spvp. RIP glamour builds.

About time that ability was fixed.

ARM.3912:

About time that ability was fixed.

Well you got your way ARM. It’s a day of victory for D /D Elementalists who will remain the top of food chain in WvW. The only upside is that maybe you’ll stop posting on our forum. Ahh who am I kidding….

that sad, I usually play professions on the receiving end, and to be honest confusion is no worse than any other strategy. You can counter if it you want to. When people run builds with little condition removal, and then kitten about thngs like this, then you have to think its kind of their fault to be honest.

Well, as I said before, and I’ll say it again, I’m still better than you ARM, and if we ever meet, I’ll still smear you across the floor of the battlefield. I could even probably still do it in a confusion bomb build.

@Nuka Cola: Yep, looks like it. Kylia is rather unhappy, I can tell you that much. As I’ve already said in multiple threads, this is probably one of the worst balance decisions the devs have ever made, and makes me extremely displeased with them. Changes like this are what happens when you listen to mouthbreathers like ARM up there.

one question to anet though:

I have all rabid gear and even worked very very hard to get the ascended gear for my build. now my build is not vial at all anymore, so im being punished now and have to spend over 60g to get new sigils,runes, exotic armor and i have to start grinding for ascended gear all over again?oh and not to forget i worked had for the abyssal scepter too.

Just looking at those guys make me wanna punch them in the face even before the confusion nerf. Way to break to peer pressure devs…

selan.8354:

one question to anet though:

I have all rabid gear and even worked very very hard to get the ascended gear for my build. now my build is not vial at all anymore, so im being punished now and have to spend over 60g to get new sigils,runes, exotic armor and i have to start grinding for ascended gear all over again?

Good point. I personally have 16 pieces of Rabid armor (excluding rabid weapons/accessories), what exactly am i supposed to do with those now? I certainly hope its not ‘use it in pve’ cuz we all know how amazing mez condi/confusion builds are in pve…

Hrmmm
Nothing like waking up sat morning to some news like this!

What does Kylia think about it, well we had a good run, from launch till now the glam build had not been touched, of course when a build gets more and more popular, complainers like good old ARM get louder and louder and companies like Anet tend to listen to the whiners, after all they are the loudest.

I have no quams with the change (Have a few builds that I made incase a situation like this ever happened) after all a great build will eventually get nerfed, its what happens. )even when it relies on the enemies stupidity )

Just sad that whiners who don’t know how to play are the root cause, as the french say “Cest la vie”

Remember that us Mesmer’s are the “Specialists” of the game, luckily thats a plural so we have lots of other choices as people like ARM will soon find out, and of course begin the crying wolf again

This is garbage. I am thoroughly disgusted. Condition mesmers are dead. Thanks for nothing Anet. Confusion in spvp is utterly useless and now it is in wvw as well.

selan.8354:

one question to anet though:

I have all rabid gear and even worked very very hard to get the ascended gear for my build. now my build is not vial at all anymore, so im being punished now and have to spend over 60g to get new sigils,runes, exotic armor and i have to start grinding for ascended gear all over again?oh and not to forget i worked had for the abyssal scepter too.

I would have hope with the nerfs to WvW skills they would reconsider us getting ascended gear in wvw, thats the only hard part in the change :/

kylia.4813:

Hrmmm
Nothing like waking up sat morning to some news like this!

What does Kylia think about it, well we had a good run, from launch till now the glam build had not been touched, of course when a build gets more and more popular, complainers like good old ARM get louder and louder and companies like Anet tend to listen to the whiners, after all they are the loudest.

I have no quams with the change (Have a few builds that I made incase a situation like this ever happened) after all a great build will eventually get nerfed, its what happens. )even when it relies on the enemies stupidity )

Just sad that whiners who don’t know how to play are the root cause, as the french say “Cest la vie”

Remember that us Mesmer’s are the “Specialists” of the game, luckily thats a plural so we have lots of other choices as people like ARM will soon find out, and of course begin the crying wolf again

I hear ride the lightning gets a 40 sec cd? T/F?

RTL has the normal 20s cooldown if it hits a target, i.e. is used in a fight.

If it’s used to escape, to disengage, and hits no target, 40s cooldown.

oh good I hate it when ele’s run away all the time from me.

Cameirus.8407:

that sad, I usually play professions on the receiving end, and to be honest confusion is no worse than any other strategy. You can counter if it you want to. When people run builds with little condition removal, and then kitten about thngs like this, then you have to think its kind of their fault to be honest.

Exactly, apart from mesmer I have 2 other level 80s and I don’t have a huge problem with glamor mesmers because I make sure I have proper condi removal.

I was expecting a slight damage reduction for confusion, but 50% is a bit ridiculous. Battles in WvW and sPvP are very different, therefore the two should not share the same constraints. I’m genuinely surprised that the nerf was so harsh bearing in mind that all other sources of condition damage for Mesmers are so thematically chaotic (outside of sharper images). Surely it would have made more sense to just reduce the stacks that the Engineer could apply as it’s already pretty easy to stack bleeds and keep burn and poison ticks going on that class (I love my condition Engi) and then leave confusion doing the same damage?

selan.8354:

one question to anet though:

I have all rabid gear and even worked very very hard to get the ascended gear for my build. now my build is not vial at all anymore, so im being punished now and have to spend over 60g to get new sigils,runes, exotic armor and i have to start grinding for ascended gear all over again?oh and not to forget i worked had for the abyssal scepter too.

This. I grinded a hell of long time for my rabid and carrion armor (and paid a lot for the sigils and runes), but even I couldn’t stomach the insane grind of dailies / fractals / monthies necessary to get ascended rabid gear. You poor, poor kitten. I can only imagine how long that took. Anet should at least give us the oppertunity to un-soulbind some of this now useless gear so we can re-sell it and get some of our money back.

Something I would hope to see in compensation for this build busting nerf… Maybe ANET just maybe do this:
1. Since confusion is now a suck.condition no matter where you compete fix the scepter so that the 3rd chain applies confusion giving us more reliable access.
2. Increase phantasmal mage base damage to compensate for the reduced confusion.
3. Last thing I think is vital. “cleansing conflagration now removes ALL conditions when torch skills are used” this would help a very condition weak cleansing class become more viable in an AOE condition spamming meta.while also making the torch st least somewhat desirable

btw izerker was not a mistake it was a stealth nerf anet got caught in. you arent getting buffed you are getting nerfed to the point that your only spot in the game is chaining sprints trying to catch up to the braindead zerg. poorly managed game is poorly managed.

its turning quickly into nerf wars like wow. the start of the last expansion warriors were good priests were good blah blah blah.. anythign that was good is made unplayable until the unplayable class is the one whining and the tables turn. sad state of balance and sad way to handle it.

I think they really did everyone a disservice here. Even if one thinks the glam builds are overpowered the normal condition mesmers are not. We got really hosed.

ehh. patch after patch.. are they making the game more fun to play or less fun to play.
each patch that happens i log on less and less. i have played mmo since uo, im not finding many reasons to log into gw2 in its current state (being so unstable and swinging the nerf bat every patch)

So feels like mesmer has been nerfed every patch in some way so far for every patch.
oh wait didnt they say before game bwe3 that mesmer was work in progress and all we have seen are nerfs ……. so only build left will be shatter ……. and after they nerf that … well …….. hmmm

at least we can hop around and hide real goooooood!!!!!

the fact is if they nerf bat with out reworking .. anything ….. then .. are whole trait line becomes useless .. and half of other lines with confusion go the way of the sword in 2013
plz tell me ur warrior or thief have 12-15 confusion traits … nerf bat will hit mesmer so fking hard cause it is only real maintained c/d ….. hell we still have traits … that give reg clones 15% more damage ….. so 15% X 0 is = 0000

nerf with out rework and ill be looking forward to the next game….

Rofl, You want to know why you’re getting nerfed

Count how many times in the video they said “We want New Players ect ect”

New Players do stupid things..Like spam attacks when Confusion is on themselves….Therefor Anet is nerfing Confusion to appease fools who don’t know any better.

Its part of their “Dumb down the game as much for the mouth breathers”

the one thing that appealed to me about this game that “there was no end game grind for pvp”…. nerfing specs back and forth creates a end game grind. greatsword gets destroyed.. maybe ill try confusion… confusion destroyed.. maybe ill try retaliation… etc etc.. all those specs take new sets of gear and they are flip flopping our specs viability each patch.

Nuka Cola.8520:

selan.8354:

one question to anet though:

I have all rabid gear and even worked very very hard to get the ascended gear for my build. now my build is not vial at all anymore, so im being punished now and have to spend over 60g to get new sigils,runes, exotic armor and i have to start grinding for ascended gear all over again?

Good point. I personally have 16 pieces of Rabid armor (excluding rabid weapons/accessories), what exactly am i supposed to do with those now? I certainly hope its not ‘use it in pve’ cuz we all know how amazing mez condi/confusion builds are in pve…

I’ll keep using my Rabid gear on PvE-it’s fun and works for me in many ways. However, this change can hardly be justified-I am trying to think how developers came to the conclusion that Confusion was in any way or fashion “OP”. People in forums can claim that Mesmers are “OP” all they want, but if developers listened to every single complaint, by many people’s logic, all Professions other than their own are “OP”, thus every one should be nerfed, which doesn’t make any sense at all. Perhaps it is that they find Confusion being “too strong” against new players, but so is stealth/cloaking and Mesmer clones, and that is no reason to nerf the stuff-people just need to learn the opposing Profession’s mechanics and play better next time with practice (as they should.) Instead of making condition builds more attractive to the community, this will continue that darned trend of people telling others that they must always play max direct damage because that’s the way to play GW2, or else not be as “efficient” (or so they would want us to believe.)

(Nothing against direct damage, BTW; I am just not a fan of people telling others how to play, or that if they don’t play like them, they are not being “as effective” as they are.)

I must say as a glam mes I saw this coming MILES away.

This needed to happen….

Confusion is not dead though we still have the ability to stack more condi damage than in PvP. So the damage will still be stronger in WvW by a decent amount.

Jinks.2057:

I must say as a glam mes I saw this coming MILES away.

This needed to happen….

Confusion is not dead though we still have the ability to stack more condi damage than in PvP. So the damage will still be stronger in WvW by a decent amount.

Yeah sure. Usually mesmers can put 3-5 stacks of confusion to the zerg. Atm it does ~1500-2000 dmg and post nerf it will be 750-1000 damage. Usually confusion lasts ~4 second which leads to that confusion will be useless.

in spvp if you run scepter torch you are still very powerful in 1v1 battles…and are able to get 12 stacks up which can do quite a bit… But it is hard to maintain a consistent stack… which I wish they would address.

So the bad players won…maybe if the also upped the duration of confusion by 100% it might be useful, but as it’s now, there is nothing left to leave to battlefield to mindless 1-spamming zerglings and resort to another build/class…

Heard thieves will get a buff, time to spread even more qq than confusion ever could.

jportell.2197:

in spvp if you run scepter torch you are still very powerful in 1v1 battles…and are able to get 12 stacks up which can do quite a bit… But it is hard to maintain a consistent stack… which I wish they would address.

In sPvP, you can get 12 stacks up…for about 3 or 4 seconds maybe. It’s powerful if you get some idiots that attack through it, and useless if you fight anyone even slightly intelligent. I’ve run a confusion bomb build in pvp before. I ran it in all the beta weekends actually. It worked ok…because people had no idea what confusion was back then. Now….now its just patently useless.

Pyroatheist.9031:

jportell.2197:

in spvp if you run scepter torch you are still very powerful in 1v1 battles…and are able to get 12 stacks up which can do quite a bit… But it is hard to maintain a consistent stack… which I wish they would address.

In sPvP, you can get 12 stacks up…for about 3 or 4 seconds maybe. It’s powerful if you get some idiots that attack through it, and useless if you fight anyone even slightly intelligent. I’ve run a confusion bomb build in pvp before. I ran it in all the beta weekends actually. It worked ok…because people had no idea what confusion was back then. Now….now its just patently useless.

And it will be equally useless in wvw now.

And it was useless in PvE all the time.

So…why even bother with it? Just remove confusion from the game and give us something actually useful for it.

“Just don’t do anything stupid” can not be the answer to confusion. Otherwise confusion is no different than a daze. 5+ sec single target daze on a 15 sec cd. 5+ sec aoe daze on a <30 sec cd. “oh sorry, your condition remover cleansed that 3 stack of vuln instead, now eat 3000 confusion damage”

It’s supposed to do some damage. Burning does ~700 dps. Even at 3 stacks the nerfed confusion will do that on someone sloooooowly doing only 1 action per sec.

Now it could very well be that the condition mesmer might be too weak, due to limited access to bleeding and almost no burning. But confusion won’t be (in wvw).

So what do we do? We either go with another class/alt, or we change our game style, or we deal with our new limitations.

I think that if the devs can be swayed one way then we can sway them in another way. I agree that just leaving confusion as our only reliable condition damage, then give us some other conditions to drop.

Whats the point of our shatter skills if they don’t work or really hurt anything. Other chars have ranged area damage with condition damage. Give our shatter skills something to hurt people with. Our class is not very good at aoe besides shatter which now is useless. So when we run up on a zerg we have to single attack most the time or use our very limited sword skills that have somewhat descent aoe but huge cool downs.

Staff uses aoe with condition damage, but its a long cool down so we are back to single attacks again. This hamstring us into a style of play or creating longer odds at winning.

Xsorus.2507:

Rofl, You want to know why you’re getting nerfed

Count how many times in the video they said “We want New Players ect ect”

New Players do stupid things..Like spam attacks when Confusion is on themselves….Therefor Anet is nerfing Confusion to appease fools who don’t know any better.

Its part of their “Dumb down the game as much for the mouth breathers”

^^^^^

Now the question becomes, will the bucket fill faster than it empties……

Someone mentioned the constant nerfing killing WoW, and I totally agree. It’s one of the main reasons I left. Did Anet learn nothing from them in this regard? Kittening off your loyal players to pull in $50/head for newbies will work in the short term, but in the long term, the population shrinks, and baby Quaggans die because no one will be there to save them from the Krait…… sad face.

Is this change only for WvW or for PvE too? I’m a PvE mesmer, tbh I think confusion is really underwhelming there, it’s not worth to build on that because most of the time it wears off before the mob would attack. Really poor choice to nerf an already UP condition, well even if they split it and it won’t affect PvE it’s still wouldn’t matter as it will remain useless in PvE. Anet should stop dumbing the game down, if new players can’t bring condi removals/spam 1 while under confusion, it’s really their problem. They might QQ, but eventually they’ll understand how it works and they’ll get better. If they make everything easier, those new players will never learn how things work, as all what they will see is spamming autoattack is the best way to play. Waiting for the day when arenanet removes our clones because it’s too “confusing” for new players…

And I really think instead of nerfing confusion they should tweak it. Why doesn’t it stacking duration instead? Let’s say confusion deals X damage for each ability used and the X dmg can be increased with more condition damage.

Confusion still hits a fair amount in PvP? I fail to see the problem? So what if you can’t destroy some poor warriors HP bar with a condition or watch them do nothing and take all your aggro.

I’m sure mesmers can over come this!

Gery.2718:

Is this change only for WvW or for PvE too? I’m a PvE mesmer, tbh I think confusion is really underwhelming there, it’s not worth to build on that because most of the time it wears off before the mob would attack. Really poor choice to nerf an already UP condition, well even if they split it and it won’t affect PvE it’s still wouldn’t matter as it will remain useless in PvE. Anet should stop dumbing the game down, if new players can’t bring condi removals/spam 1 while under confusion, it’s really their problem. They might QQ, but eventually they’ll understand how it works and they’ll get better. If they make everything easier, those new players will never learn how things work, as all what they will see is spamming autoattack is the best way to play. Waiting for the day when arenanet removes our clones because it’s too “confusing” for new players…

And I really think instead of nerfing confusion they should tweak it. Why doesn’t it stacking duration instead? Let’s say confusion deals X damage for each ability used and the X dmg can be increased with more condition damage.

And what kind of damage do you suggest confusion should be dealing, 100’s or go over 1k? Because if its something like 250 damage with 1500 condi damage it’ll just be Retaliation 2.0 and we don’t need that. Confusion was a perfect condi that didn’t need any balance (bleed/burn/poison stack should be balanced way before confusion…) in wvw. In pve its broken since day one, in spvp they’ve killed it because? OP rofl all they succeeded at doing in spvp is force ALL mesmers run a power build so success anet, gz.

They should at least buff our condition specs in some other way so it’s not entirely useless. +100% uptime on confusion would balance out the change and leave more time for buttonmashers to realize they are doing something wrong.

Or give us the option to actually be able to stack bleeding to a reasonable amount.

KnattyDreads.1856:

Pyroatheist.9031:

jportell.2197:

in spvp if you run scepter torch you are still very powerful in 1v1 battles…and are able to get 12 stacks up which can do quite a bit… But it is hard to maintain a consistent stack… which I wish they would address.

In sPvP, you can get 12 stacks up…for about 3 or 4 seconds maybe. It’s powerful if you get some idiots that attack through it, and useless if you fight anyone even slightly intelligent. I’ve run a confusion bomb build in pvp before. I ran it in all the beta weekends actually. It worked ok…because people had no idea what confusion was back then. Now….now its just patently useless.

And it will be equally useless in wvw now.

Dead serious, Even in tourneys you gotta be able to time it right but you can keep a constant 5 stacks between staff (10s Chaos armor) and the normal s/t attacks. Is this gonna screw over the glamour bomb builds… Yes… But if you fight anyone in a 1v1 they aren’t gonna have enough condi clear to keep up with you steady supply+spikes… I’m just as PO’d about this as anyone and don’t want to see the change come to fruition… But it will… and we can adapt…

Is the glamour build done… most likely but we still have a good thing with confusion. It’s not all complete doom and gloom.

Looks like it’s that time of the year again!

Time to crack out my warning from the future that I posted all the way back in Beta 3 just so I can say “called it!”

jportell.2197:

KnattyDreads.1856:

Pyroatheist.9031:

jportell.2197:

in spvp if you run scepter torch you are still very powerful in 1v1 battles…and are able to get 12 stacks up which can do quite a bit… But it is hard to maintain a consistent stack… which I wish they would address.

In sPvP, you can get 12 stacks up…for about 3 or 4 seconds maybe. It’s powerful if you get some idiots that attack through it, and useless if you fight anyone even slightly intelligent. I’ve run a confusion bomb build in pvp before. I ran it in all the beta weekends actually. It worked ok…because people had no idea what confusion was back then. Now….now its just patently useless.

And it will be equally useless in wvw now.

Dead serious, Even in tourneys you gotta be able to time it right but you can keep a constant 5 stacks between staff (10s Chaos armor) and the normal s/t attacks. Is this gonna screw over the glamour bomb builds… Yes… But if you fight anyone in a 1v1 they aren’t gonna have enough condi clear to keep up with you steady supply+spikes… I’m just as PO’d about this as anyone and don’t want to see the change come to fruition… But it will… and we can adapt…

Is the glamour build done… most likely but we still have a good thing with confusion. It’s not all complete doom and gloom.

yeah but wvw is where u face groups, lager groups to very large zergs. spvp and wvw is still very very very different from each other.so what builds are left that still can kep up with other classes?confusion is officially useless now so what uilds are there that can still help in wvw?

Think positive.. now that PvE and WvW confusion are separate, maybe they will finally buff confusion (and F2) in PvE ;-) .

Toi bad we lost our only effective way to tag in WvW though..
(at least for conditions builds)

I’m pretty kittening glad it got nerfed into the ground.
My guild is always asking me to run glamor builds to kill zergs.
Now I can go back to my shatter build and actually have fun in wvw.

Thank you devs, me love you long time

Thurfir.6381:

Think positive.. now that PvE and WvW confusion are separate, maybe they will finally buff confusion (and F2) in PvE ;-) .

Toi bad we lost our only effective way to tag in WvW though..
(at least for conditions builds)

err i don’t really like pve …i really really tried to like it….but after being level 80 it started getting boring.

Jackums.3496:

Confusion is a joke in sPvP. It really doesn’t matter how long you can keep it on your target when the damage is simply negligible. This is without even putting cleansing or heals into the equation, at which point confusion’s threat is basically non-existent.

Wut? Even the most astute player can’t keep confusion off of them if built for it and it procs on several things too. It is useful against nearly everyone… I can’t think of a single build that doesn’t suffer from my confusion.

They should have done the exact opposite and put Confusion in sPvP to match PvE/WvW to give Mesmers more viable builds other than Bunker (Diversion nerf will hit them kinda hard) and 20 20 0 0 30

Or atleast make it 75% of what it does now, as well as bumping up the damage in sPvP to match.

No team I’ve seen has a condition mesmer for obvious reasons. If you’ve seen a successful structured tournie PvP condition Mesmer, Please feel free to drop me a link to a video.

With unreliable bleed/burning application, little access to poisons, and confusion lasts 40% Less duration (No veggie pizza) I doubt there is one.

The base duration on confusion should be increased immensely to make up for the loss in damage.

New players may get a clue about cleansing the new small, minor damage nuisance of confusion if it lasts long enough. Rather than simply being able to ignore it like they can currently in structured.