Core Mesmer is better at attacking + evade
Axes of Symmetry is Axe3. You get placed randomly around your target and may not be in range of Axe auto attacks, as well as not facing your target (and therefore not leaping/applying 5 Confusion +1 Phantasmal Seeking Axe if traited).
It is a random reposition tool.
Axes of Symmetry is Axe3. You get placed randomly around your target and may not be in range of Axe auto attacks, as well as not facing your target (and therefore not leaping/applying 5 Confusion +1 Phantasmal Seeking Axe if traited).
It is a random reposition tool.
Ahh my bad thought u were refering at axe 2. Ye i remember that skill being clunky even tho iv see it be sucessfully performed even if you dont face the target. I dont agree its a random reposition tool as ots aim its to always reposition you on your target unlike downed 2 which looks to be random. Still it just needs some polish to work so not much work there.
Ahh my bad thought u were refering at axe 2. Ye i remember that skill being clunky even tho iv see it be sucessfully performed wven if you dont face the target. Still it just needs some polish to work so not much work there.
You can say that to anything that’s broken, bugged, or even clunky. That doesn’t change anything.
Also, if you want to talk about Axe2, it’s kind of a bad skill because it almost forces you to dodge while using it. It’s a dash attack that doesn’t provide any defensive options. There are many small dashes similar to that, but almost every single one of them provide you with some defense (there is one exception).
Death’s Charge destroys projectiles and blinds foes.
Surge of the MIsts is an evade and knocks back foes.
Death Blossom is an evade.
Whirlwind Attack is an evade.
Weakening Charge is the only exception, but it does almost double the damage of Lingering Thoughts and doesn’t hamper the Daredevils damage output (see: LT summons a clone).
Ahh my bad thought u were refering at axe 2. Ye i remember that skill being clunky even tho iv see it be sucessfully performed wven if you dont face the target. Still it just needs some polish to work so not much work there.
You can say that to anything that’s broken, bugged, or even clunky. That doesn’t change anything.
Also, if you want to talk about Axe2, it’s kind of a bad skill because it almost forces you to dodge while using it. It’s a dash attack that doesn’t provide any defensive options. There are many small dashes similar to that, but almost every single one of them provide you with some defense (there is one exception).
Death’s Charge destroys projectiles and blinds foes.
Surge of the MIsts is an evade and knocks back foes.
Death Blossom is an evade.
Whirlwind Attack is an evade.
Weakening Charge is the only exception, but it does almost double the damage of Lingering Thoughts and doesn’t hamper the Daredevils damage output (see: LT summons a clone).
Feedback for this skill was that it was underwhelming so i expect a defensive componment to be added. No, you cant say that to everything that broken clunky or bugged (except similar cases with other elite specs). Simply because they are selling an expac on these ones.
Feedback for this skill was that it was underwhelming so i expect a defensive componment to be added. No, you cant say that to everything that broken clunky or bugged (except similar cases with other elite specs). Simply because they are selling an expac on these ones.
Mirrors feel clunky, they can be fixed.
Axe skills feel clunky, they can be fixed.
Ambushes feel clunky, they can be fixed.
Shatters feel clunky, they can be fixed.
Mantras feel clunky, they can be fixed.
Master of Manipulation + Mass Invisibility feels clunky, it can be fixed.
Mirage traits feel clunky, they can be fixed.
I’m fairly certain it’s applicable, but it doesn’t respond to a discussion.
Feedback for this skill was that it was underwhelming so i expect a defensive componment to be added. No, you cant say that to everything that broken clunky or bugged (except similar cases with other elite specs). Simply because they are selling an expac on these ones.
Mirrors feel clunky, they can be fixed.
Axe skills feel clunky, they can be fixed.
Ambushes feel clunky, they can be fixed.
Shatters feel clunky, they can be fixed.
Mantras feel clunky, they can be fixed.
Master of Manipulation + Mass Invisibility feels clunky, it can be fixed.
Mirage traits feel clunky, they can be fixed.I’m fairly certain it’s applicable, but it doesn’t respond to a discussion.
Mirrors feels underwhelming can be fixed.(i suggested a fix imo)
Axe does as well can be fixed.
Some ambish skills feel clunky can be fix by being homing projectiles like the axe one.
Shatters feel clunky in pve*, not mirage’s issue to fix. (ori had a great suggestion on that)
Mantras feel clunky, mirage cloak fixes that.
The manipulation trait and the elite is plain stupidity.
Traits can be changed and tweaked to be more consisted and reliable.
Again they expect ppl to buy to play this if its kitten non will buy for it they will simply do content on the hot ones.
Mirage cloak doesn’t actually fix Mantras being clunky. It’s a band-aid to help you get it out, but it doesn’t address the weak return on a 2.5s cast time, nor the lack of synergy with charges and runes. (Also: Mantra of Recovery doesn’t count as a heal skill, only the charges do.)
Saying that things can be changed doesn’t resolve anything. Anything can be changed, but that doesn’t make them good or desirable.
Mirage cloak doesn’t actually fix Mantras being clunky. It’s a band-aid to help you get it out, but it doesn’t address the weak return on a 2.5s cast time, nor the lack of synergy with charges and runes. (Also: Mantra of Recovery doesn’t count as a heal skill, only the charges do.)
Saying that things can be changed doesn’t resolve anything. Anything can be changed, but that doesn’t make them good or desirable.
No mantras are a risk reward skill mirage takes out a large portion of that risk. Would i like a faster charge? Sure but idk how far down they can take it without making mirage with mantras a 100 no risk process.
“changing things doesnt make them good or desireable” ok
Mantras are not a risk rework (reward?) ability. That’s what they function as on paper, but the in-combat cast doesn’t really exist and the reward is not worth the risk. Saying that you can dodge to get it out means that you’re using another ability to get it out. It’s actually very similar to saying: “Well, Mantras are very strong because you can just cast them in stealth.” That’s entirely true, but it also means you’re using a (long) stealth cooldown to get out a Mantra, which is usually not worth that much.
Additionally, since apparently that statement was confusing: Just because something bad has the possibility of being changed, does not make it good or desirable in their current state.
Mantras are not a risk rework (reward?) ability. That’s what they function as on paper, but the in-combat cast doesn’t really exist and the reward is not worth the risk. Saying that you can dodge to get it out means that you’re using another ability to get it out. It’s actually very similar to saying: “Well, Mantras are very strong because you can just cast them in stealth.” That’s entirely true, but it also means you’re using a (long) stealth cooldown to get out a Mantra, which is usually not worth that much.
Additionally, since apparently that statement was confusing: Just because something bad has the possibility of being changed, does not make it good or desirable in their current state.
Ofc its not good or desirable in its current state im not argueing that im argueing that being all negative about it is needless because it could very well be changed polished or w/e to be good.
Also i recall alot of that would use sword 3 mid cast of either sield 5 or sword 2 to ensure they will be telepprted on their immobilised target to secure that their skill will land. I also remember ppl using ahoeld 5 or cs to sucesfully cast moa.
Thw consept of covering you skills has always existed why is it in this case a problem. Why should you treat it as a problem instead of another layer of depth in this game?
Im not saying the mantras are nearly as powerful as moa is but they are pretty decent and can mean the diff in a killing the enemy or dying.
You can’t use Sword3 in the middle of Sword2. Using Sword3 on someone stunned from Shield5 is redundant in most cases. Using Shield5 does not help you get your Moa out, as they’re probably evading your Shield5 and therefore your Moa. Citing CS is irrelevant, because that’s not a cover skill, it gives you a free cast and is quite literally it’s purpose (that’s like saying the use of Mimic to cast Blink means you waste 2 skills).
I don’t know what Mantra you’re running to be able to make the difference between a kill and a death, so if you’d like to give an example, that’d be nice.
You can’t use Sword3 in the middle of Sword2. Using Sword3 on someone stunned from Shield5 is redundant in most cases. Using Shield5 does not help you get your Moa out, as they’re probably evading your Shield5 and therefore your Moa. Citing CS is irrelevant, because that’s not a cover skill, it gives you a free cast and is quite literally it’s purpose (that’s like saying the use of Mimic to cast Blink means you waste 2 skills).
I don’t know what Mantra you’re running to be able to make the difference between a kill and a death, so if you’d like to give an example, that’d be nice.
I find thedaze mantra and the dmg mantras quite good. i can see stun mantra staging ambush skills really well and dmg mantra just giving me that little edge on dmg to burst someone all the more easily.
U can time sword 2 right before u use sword 3. Dodging shield 5 and moa has to do with the played that doesnt stop the fact that ppl can use shield5 sword 3 and the n moa to get off a safer moa than just casting moa alone.
Mantra of Pain does less damage than the sword auto, what the hell are you talking about.
And the fact is, if you want to do damage as mirage, you’ll have to use axe, not sword. Core mesmer has far better traitline for a power build.
Which means you’re not using sword, so yeah you’re less defensive.
Mirage is an outright inferior version for power builds because the mirage traits are terrible outside the axe trait and sand shards on cloak (and the minor that increases condi damage on mirage cloak but not power).
Ahh my bad thought u were refering at axe 2. Ye i remember that skill being clunky even tho iv see it be sucessfully performed wven if you dont face the target. Still it just needs some polish to work so not much work there.
You can say that to anything that’s broken, bugged, or even clunky. That doesn’t change anything.
Also, if you want to talk about Axe2, it’s kind of a bad skill because it almost forces you to dodge while using it. It’s a dash attack that doesn’t provide any defensive options. There are many small dashes similar to that, but almost every single one of them provide you with some defense (there is one exception).
Death’s Charge destroys projectiles and blinds foes.
Surge of the MIsts is an evade and knocks back foes.
Death Blossom is an evade.
Whirlwind Attack is an evade.
Weakening Charge is the only exception, but it does almost double the damage of Lingering Thoughts and doesn’t hamper the Daredevils damage output (see: LT summons a clone).
Yeah I feel like the Axe 2 either needs its own evade on it, or it needs to be way faster. As it is now you kinda leisurely spin towards the enemy and make yourself super vulnerable unless you burn one of your dodges.
As for your comment on Mantras, I actually really like the heal and daze Mantra in PvP nowadays, pain seems super underwhelming to me, and as strong as the condi cleanse and stability one are, once I’ve used both charges their cast is just hell and doesn’t give any worthwhile effect for finishing it. At least the daze gives 15s off diversion, and the heal gives a nice bandaid.
It’s obvious they want them to be risk vs reward, and honestly the only one that seems that way currently is the Mantra of distraction, and then the heal when it’s trained, all the other ones don’t feel all that rewarding to actually cast mid combat, so once the charges are spent I just kinda pray I won’t need them.
They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
It also doesn’t help that Mesmer damage isn’t that great to begin with because of how bursty the class is as a whole, I feel like Mesmer could be way better in raids if there were legit burn phases where the Mesmer could just unload everything when they’re vulnerable and let their spikey game style get more mileage.
You hwot. Burn phases hurt condi builds more than power builds. Also “Mesmer spikey gamestyle”’s burst is about the same as other professions sustained DPS.
I mean sure, there’s phantasms for sustain, and that builds pretty good, but our condi doesn’t have that sorta luxury.
Also, has anyone tested our condi builds damage after torment and confusion have been reworked in PvE?
At best (boss doesn’t move or use abilities), it increases our DPS by <25%. At worst (boss moves and uses abilities), it does nothing.
Are you saying our spike damage averages out to the other classes sustain? Or that our spike is very low? And for the burn phase I was more just thinking for shatter builds, not necessarily condi, idk how to help our condi build in PvE without just splitting all the skills so we aren’t obscene in other aspects of the game.
They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
I find it hilarious how even the most advent defenders of Mirage in this thread by page 3 have started to throw in things like:
- yes it’s clunky but I like it
- stuff can get buffed
- they might change it
- it’s a tradeoff
- people should be less negative, I’m sure arenanet will fix things
Must be hard to defend an elite when the best arguments one can muster when confronted by some basic facts is:“I’m sure they’ll come around to fixing stuff”.
What do people actually think why there is criticism and why people are speaking up? It’s so that arenanet take notice because their trackrecord of fixing, balancing or even keeping mesmer basic functional is abysmal.
It also doesn’t help that Mesmer damage isn’t that great to begin with because of how bursty the class is as a whole, I feel like Mesmer could be way better in raids if there were legit burn phases where the Mesmer could just unload everything when they’re vulnerable and let their spikey game style get more mileage.
You hwot. Burn phases hurt condi builds more than power builds. Also “Mesmer spikey gamestyle”’s burst is about the same as other professions sustained DPS.
I mean sure, there’s phantasms for sustain, and that builds pretty good, but our condi doesn’t have that sorta luxury.
Also, has anyone tested our condi builds damage after torment and confusion have been reworked in PvE?
At best (boss doesn’t move or use abilities), it increases our DPS by <25%. At worst (boss moves and uses abilities), it does nothing.
Are you saying our spike damage averages out to the other classes sustain? Or that our spike is very low? And for the burn phase I was more just thinking for shatter builds, not necessarily condi, idk how to help our condi build in PvE without just splitting all the skills so we aren’t obscene in other aspects of the game.
Our spike is low. Also you don’t shatter during burn phases (and the only true burn phase is KC).
I find it hilarious how even the most advent defenders of Mirage in this thread by page 3 have started to throw in things like:
- yes it’s clunky but I like it
- stuff can get buffed
- they might change it
- it’s a tradeoff
- people should be less negative, I’m sure arenanet will fix thingsMust be hard to defend an elite when the best arguments one can muster when confronted by some basic facts is:“I’m sure they’ll come around to fixing stuff”.
What do people actually think why there is criticism and why people are speaking up? It’s so that arenanet take notice because their trackrecord of fixing, balancing or even keeping mesmer basic functional is abysmal.
anet will notice people who speak up and nerf chrono .
here is why
bad pvp players will call nerf to mirage even it’s mesmer which kills them(they already did )
guard and rev player will demand nerf to chrono so they can have their support spot in raid group(they already did ) .
we are not ele or war , the usefulness of chrono is always gimmick quickness in pve, and in pvp after many serious nerf , it only stays in meta due to portal and moa and slowly became thief food again .
many people were saying 100% quickness uptime is unhealthy to game .truth is if they want balanced offensive support , they have to balance dps output first . but many people believe that healthy game balance crap (same people were saying druid need unique offensive support lol) .
If mesmer main still act like those positive cool dudes (some are actually thief main but whatever), then we will certainly go back to our dark time.
SOI for pve
chronophantasma for pvp
this 2 things are gap from wanted chrono to abyss.
other classes don’t rely on such gimmick things to fix their core mechanic to be useful or even function at all .
As long as anet refuses to create new shatter skill and mechanic for illusion , they have to make mesmer elite spec broken op to be on bar with other class .
it would be insanely op dps if other class has something like CS . but even with build in 30% critic chance buff + cs ,chrono line isn’t dps increase for mesmer .
and when you think about it , anet did not design chrono as support elite . the 100% quickness uptime was unintended and back then two wells are okish aoe dmg(they nerfed GW later) , AWTEW was for condition removal .
everyone is happy with chrono , but even chrono is flawed design wise ,they just threw random aoe support as wells at mesmer but quickness thing worked( tho chrono trait line is well designed for slow/shatter/support ).
and anet did this with mirage again .it’s just this time nothing works. And this time mirage trait line is purely random for many different functions but offer little resource to make certain function work (mirror , dodge , ambush ,illusion retarget ,clone burst and bonus confusion ).
And yet we have to be positive lol .
As for your comment on Mantras, I actually really like the heal and daze Mantra in PvP nowadays, pain seems super underwhelming to me, and as strong as the condi cleanse and stability one are, once I’ve used both charges their cast is just hell and doesn’t give any worthwhile effect for finishing it. At least the daze gives 15s off diversion, and the heal gives a nice bandaid.
It’s obvious they want them to be risk vs reward, and honestly the only one that seems that way currently is the Mantra of distraction, and then the heal when it’s trained, all the other ones don’t feel all that rewarding to actually cast mid combat, so once the charges are spent I just kinda pray I won’t need them.
I completely agree.
The charge reward feels so awful on most it doesn’t feel rewarding to cast them in combat as designed.
Mantra of Distraction and Recovery feel good because completing their casts feels like a powerful reward independent of having to follow up with the charges. The others need to be made to fit this blueprint.
Pain and Resolve require immediate use of their charges to realise the potential of their channels and for that reason feel clunky; why not just make them single casts without charges? Concentration also feels weird because gaining a single stack of aegis and stability on charge feels meaningless in the scheme of things.
Pain – Add a strong AOE effect on channel completion centered on target. Could be damage, damaging conditions, debuff conditions, or some combination thereof. For example, AOE application of 3 sec of cripple, blindness, and weakness is what you get for letting me free cast ad nauseam.
Resolve – Straight up cleanse five conditions on channel completion.
Concentration – In addition to stability and aegis, add 5 sec of protection, regeneration, vigor, and swiftness upon channel completion.
These may be a little much, but I think it gets the idea across of what would help make them feel combat cast worthy.
(edited by Allarius.5670)
I find it hilarious how even the most advent defenders of Mirage in this thread by page 3 have started to throw in things like:
- yes it’s clunky but I like it
- stuff can get buffed
- they might change it
- it’s a tradeoff
- people should be less negative, I’m sure arenanet will fix thingsMust be hard to defend an elite when the best arguments one can muster when confronted by some basic facts is:“I’m sure they’ll come around to fixing stuff”.
What do people actually think why there is criticism and why people are speaking up? It’s so that arenanet take notice because their trackrecord of fixing, balancing or even keeping mesmer basic functional is abysmal.
Lmao no one is saying mirage is perfectly viable and balanced.
I find it hilarious how even the most advent defenders of Mirage in this thread by page 3 have started to throw in things like:
- yes it’s clunky but I like it
- stuff can get buffed
- they might change it
- it’s a tradeoff
- people should be less negative, I’m sure arenanet will fix thingsMust be hard to defend an elite when the best arguments one can muster when confronted by some basic facts is:“I’m sure they’ll come around to fixing stuff”.
What do people actually think why there is criticism and why people are speaking up? It’s so that arenanet take notice because their trackrecord of fixing, balancing or even keeping mesmer basic functional is abysmal.
Lmao no one is saying mirage is perfectly viable and balanced.
There are lots of people who are denying the huge glaring mechanical flaws of mirage or the lazy, uninspired traits and think just tweeking a number here or there will fix it. Including you.
I find it hilarious how even the most advent defenders of Mirage in this thread by page 3 have started to throw in things like:
- yes it’s clunky but I like it
- stuff can get buffed
- they might change it
- it’s a tradeoff
- people should be less negative, I’m sure arenanet will fix thingsMust be hard to defend an elite when the best arguments one can muster when confronted by some basic facts is:“I’m sure they’ll come around to fixing stuff”.
What do people actually think why there is criticism and why people are speaking up? It’s so that arenanet take notice because their trackrecord of fixing, balancing or even keeping mesmer basic functional is abysmal.
Lmao no one is saying mirage is perfectly viable and balanced.
There are lots of people who are denying the huge glaring mechanical flaws of mirage or the lazy, uninspired traits and think just tweeking a number here or there will fix it. Including you.
Yeah because i dont see these “huge mechanical flaws”. I believe the spec is 70% there and just needs further polish.
“Lmao no one is saying mirage is perfectly viable and balanced.”
next post
“Lmao Mirage is fine”
My fault for feeding the troll.
Infact can we get into this great delusion that Anet are going to buff the numbers? It took 5 years for them to give us a decent damage % trait and we are still dead last in DPS builds, even without taking into account how our mechanics don’t mesh with PvE. We are still waiting for CD reductions, buffs to weak auto attacks and the laughable damage of the weak attacks slapped on to Phantasm summoning skills.
Infact can we get into this great delusion that Anet are going to buff the numbers? It took 5 years for them to give us a decent damage % trait and we are still dead last in DPS builds, even without taking into account how our mechanics don’t mesh with PvE. We are still waiting for CD reductions, buffs to weak auto attacks and the laughable damage of the weak attacks slapped on to Phantasm summoning skills.
But something that took you 3 hours to cook you can finish in 10 minutes if you keep at it.
/s
I find it hilarious how even the most advent defenders of Mirage in this thread by page 3 have started to throw in things like:
- yes it’s clunky but I like it
- stuff can get buffed
- they might change it
- it’s a tradeoff
- people should be less negative, I’m sure arenanet will fix thingsMust be hard to defend an elite when the best arguments one can muster when confronted by some basic facts is:“I’m sure they’ll come around to fixing stuff”.
What do people actually think why there is criticism and why people are speaking up? It’s so that arenanet take notice because their trackrecord of fixing, balancing or even keeping mesmer basic functional is abysmal.
Lmao no one is saying mirage is perfectly viable and balanced.
There are lots of people who are denying the huge glaring mechanical flaws of mirage or the lazy, uninspired traits and think just tweeking a number here or there will fix it. Including you.
Yeah because i dont see these “huge mechanical flaws”. I believe the spec is 70% there and just needs further polish.
mirage main mechanic-mirror which doesn’t work
and that is huge mechanical flaws .
no interact with shatter but traits require shatter to gain bonus for ambush or mirror , check .
no way to generate clone but require clone + a GM trait IH for ambush to be meaningful bonus dmg , check .
superspeed on dodge but it doesn’t work backward or sidewalk ,this makes whole mirage dodge a downgrade to normal dodge in half of situation , also it takes a minor trait for that , check .
if those are not huge mechanical flaw to you , i don’t know what is huge ?
not to mention ,as a dps spec , mirage does not fix many many core mes problem to deal meaningful dps in pve .
long setup time , check
illusion dies with target , check
retarget does not work on most raid bosses , check (i know many are hyped for this one without thinking actual boss fight )
illusions don’t get any bonus from sigil or rune , check
on top of those , mirage does not offer new playstyle for pve , you just replace chaos line with mirage line and take passive traits for small numbers gain. tho its not huge mechanical flaw , it failed one of elite spec purpose : offer new playstyle .
you can argue it may offer some sort of new but far weaker build for pvp , thing is mirage line does not have build defining traits like chrono line or illusion line does .
and where did your 70% come from .we could list every single ambush skill / trait / axe skill . good luck to find 70% things that work .
Axe AA – number problem
axe 2 and axe 3 mechanical problem
ambush :
sword – number problem
rest are mechanical problem
(you can buff gs ambush sky high and call that a number problem i guess )
heal+ utilities -mechanical problem
elite – number problem
traits
they are literally mess . but let’s say Dune Cloak ,Mirrored Axes and Mirage Mantle , this 3 trait do work .but may need some number buff .
rest are mechanical broken either require mirage use shatter or clone or 33% rng on top of shatter , which is on top off very limited illusion generation ,or randomly require regen to reduce dmg condi , or broken gm that is Elusive Mind.
so there are like 6 things from entire elite spec that actually work .
are they 70% of mirage , i don’t know ,since mirage lives by its name we have to stare at that meaningless mirage to imagine things it might be able to do in the future.
Infact can we get into this great delusion that Anet are going to buff the numbers? It took 5 years for them to give us a decent damage % trait and we are still dead last in DPS builds, even without taking into account how our mechanics don’t mesh with PvE. We are still waiting for CD reductions, buffs to weak auto attacks and the laughable damage of the weak attacks slapped on to Phantasm summoning skills.
Dead last in dps on a golem and dead last on an actual raid isnt really the same.
Infact can we get into this great delusion that Anet are going to buff the numbers? It took 5 years for them to give us a decent damage % trait and we are still dead last in DPS builds, even without taking into account how our mechanics don’t mesh with PvE. We are still waiting for CD reductions, buffs to weak auto attacks and the laughable damage of the weak attacks slapped on to Phantasm summoning skills.
But something that took you 3 hours to cook you can finish in 10 minutes if you keep at it.
/s
I suppose you missed the meaning of that What im saying is that practice makes better.
“Lmao no one is saying mirage is perfectly viable and balanced.”
next post
“Lmao Mirage is fine”
My fault for feeding the troll.
Yeah because i dont see these “huge mechanical flaws”. I believe the spec is 70% there and just needs further polish.
= Mirage is fine? Idk where you see that.
Yeah because i dont see these “huge mechanical flaws”. I believe the spec is 70% there and just needs further polish.
mirage main mechanic-mirror which doesn’t work
and that is huge mechanical flaws .No. Mirage’s main mechanic is mirage cloak. Mirrors is another mechanic that servers mirage cloak.
no interact with shatter
Minor Master [Nomad’s Endurance] Shatter skills give vigor, which grants Condition damage.
Major Adept [Riddle of Sand] When entering combat, your first Ambush attack applies confusion. This ability refreshes when you use a Shatter skill.
but traits require shatter to gain bonus for ambush or mirror , check .Major Master [Shards of Glass] Shattered Illusions have a chance of becoming Mirage Mirrors.
no way to generate clone but require clone + a GM trait IH for ambush to be meaningful bonus dmg , check .
Major Adept [Self-Deception] Using a Deception skill will create a clone if you have exactly two illusions active.
Major Master [Mirrored Axes] Reduce recharge of axe skills. Axe skills generate an additional phantom axe.
[Lingering Thoughts] Clone ½ Spin forward and strike multiple times, inflicting conditions and leaving a mirage at your starting position. If an enemy is near the mirage when it expires, a clone is summoned.
superspeed on dodge but it doesn’t work backward or sidewalk ,this makes whole mirage dodge a downgrade to normal dodge in half of situation , also it takes a minor trait for that , check .
Ok. This one id assume the devs didnt think when they went about adding supperspeed on dodge. I’d assume thats something that the devs are now aware through feedback and will try to adress.
if those are not huge mechanical flaw to you , i don’t know what is huge ?
A huge mechanical flaw would be like renegades sb3 be limiting as to having control of the point where the arrows will connect
A huge mechanical flaw was scourge’s portal crashing servers etc.
To me what mirage suffers from is that it has the mechanics but theya rent perfect and need some further work. But nothing in the lines of a total rework.not to mention ,as a dps spec , mirage does not fix many many core mes problem to deal meaningful dps in pve .
Have you seen the atrocity that is power dps mesmer 30k is in no way not meaningful esp when its so easy to upkeep.
long setup time , check
I suppose mesmer has idd “long” setup times, got me there i suppose.
illusion dies with target , check
Good thing in the newer and reworked isntanced fractals where you are in a group phantasms will rarely be targeted.
I can see with clones that being an issue and id like the devs buffing their hp.retarget does not work on most raid bosses , check (i know many are hyped for this one without thinking actual boss fight )
Good think uy got to play raids and u came to that conclusion. Lucky u i wasnt able to get to play mirage in raids and t4 fractals.
illusions don’t get any bonus from sigil or rune , check
Id love that to happen but that might be hard to balance or even hard to implement.
on top of those , mirage does not offer new playstyle for pve , you just replace chaos line with mirage line and take passive traits for small numbers gain. tho its not huge mechanical flaw , it failed one of elite spec purpose : offer new playstyle .
Im quite hyped to simply go on about doing my rotation without carring about aoes and mechanics and not only that avoiding them even lead to a dps increase. U can argue thief has that but thats thief and it lock him in 1 action whereas in mirage u are free to do w/e.
you can argue it may offer some sort of new but far weaker build for pvp , thing is mirage line does not have build defining traits like chrono line or illusion line does .
Dmg avoidance, mirrors the concept of deceiving your enemies since you no longer parkour out of aoe. It not perfect but its not as bad that you would take it back to drawing board.
Imo allowing as to move easier to mirrors to get access to ambush skills as well as the ambush skills dealing more dmg and more secured dmg (instead of praying that the enemy wont a-d his way out of the scepter ambush or the the staff one.
And a few buff to the numbers of the utility skills (jaunt in specific)
The only hard rework i want to see is Illusionary Ambush and Mirage Advance to be merged into 1 skill. But not sure if that would be too strong.
oh and Crystal Sands this to have like quickstand under the area the projectiles spawn so its easier to hit (hardly a rework to add a cripple)
Infact can we get into this great delusion that Anet are going to buff the numbers? It took 5 years for them to give us a decent damage % trait and we are still dead last in DPS builds, even without taking into account how our mechanics don’t mesh with PvE. We are still waiting for CD reductions, buffs to weak auto attacks and the laughable damage of the weak attacks slapped on to Phantasm summoning skills.
Dead last in dps on a golem and dead last on an actual raid isnt really the same.
True, but banking on the fact that realistic damage scenarios being in your favor versus a static and always similar test scenario is very foolish. Especially when the class you are playing has contradictory mechanics and a long windup time due to having to summon part of its damage. What’s your point?
Infact can we get into this great delusion that Anet are going to buff the numbers? It took 5 years for them to give us a decent damage % trait and we are still dead last in DPS builds, even without taking into account how our mechanics don’t mesh with PvE. We are still waiting for CD reductions, buffs to weak auto attacks and the laughable damage of the weak attacks slapped on to Phantasm summoning skills.
But something that took you 3 hours to cook you can finish in 10 minutes if you keep at it.
/s
I suppose you missed the meaning of that What im saying is that practice makes better.
No, he didn’t miss your meaning. You never talked about practice but instead are assuming arenanet are going to bring us some magical buffs which will improve the class. Guess what, if everything is fine and people are content with the crapfest of mirage as it is now, those buffs will never come.
Actually those buffs might never come regardless since arenanet are happy with mirages current state. That alone would have every semi-intelligent persons alarmbells go off.
Infact can we get into this great delusion that Anet are going to buff the numbers? It took 5 years for them to give us a decent damage % trait and we are still dead last in DPS builds, even without taking into account how our mechanics don’t mesh with PvE. We are still waiting for CD reductions, buffs to weak auto attacks and the laughable damage of the weak attacks slapped on to Phantasm summoning skills.
Dead last in dps on a golem and dead last on an actual raid isnt really the same.
True, but banking on the fact that realistic damage scenarios being in your favor versus a static and always similar test scenario is very foolish. Especially when the class you are playing has contradictory mechanics and a long windup time due to having to summon part of its damage. What’s your point?
Infact can we get into this great delusion that Anet are going to buff the numbers? It took 5 years for them to give us a decent damage % trait and we are still dead last in DPS builds, even without taking into account how our mechanics don’t mesh with PvE. We are still waiting for CD reductions, buffs to weak auto attacks and the laughable damage of the weak attacks slapped on to Phantasm summoning skills.
But something that took you 3 hours to cook you can finish in 10 minutes if you keep at it.
/s
I suppose you missed the meaning of that What im saying is that practice makes better.
No, he didn’t miss your meaning. You never talked about practice but instead are assuming arenanet are going to bring us some magical buffs which will improve the class. Guess what, if everything is fine and people are content with the crapfest of mirage as it is now, those buffs will never come.
Actually those buffs might never come regardless since arenanet are happy with mirages current state. That alone would have every semi-intelligent persons alarmbells go off.
Statement that anet is fine with current mirage? The community ahs been quite vocal about mirage’s underwhelming performance. What i dissagree with the general community on is that mirage needs tweaks and polish rather tha fundemental reworks. Also implied that its a matter of practice.
As for dps my dps isnt comming from me doing complex rotations. It comes from me summoning my phantasms at the start then aa my way to 30k. A 30k thats way easier to achieve than with power engi power thief guard ele condi dps/ps warr etc. Thats my point.
(edited by zealex.9410)
Infact can we get into this great delusion that Anet are going to buff the numbers? It took 5 years for them to give us a decent damage % trait and we are still dead last in DPS builds, even without taking into account how our mechanics don’t mesh with PvE. We are still waiting for CD reductions, buffs to weak auto attacks and the laughable damage of the weak attacks slapped on to Phantasm summoning skills.
Dead last in dps on a golem and dead last on an actual raid isnt really the same.
True, but banking on the fact that realistic damage scenarios being in your favor versus a static and always similar test scenario is very foolish. Especially when the class you are playing has contradictory mechanics and a long windup time due to having to summon part of its damage. What’s your point?
Infact can we get into this great delusion that Anet are going to buff the numbers? It took 5 years for them to give us a decent damage % trait and we are still dead last in DPS builds, even without taking into account how our mechanics don’t mesh with PvE. We are still waiting for CD reductions, buffs to weak auto attacks and the laughable damage of the weak attacks slapped on to Phantasm summoning skills.
But something that took you 3 hours to cook you can finish in 10 minutes if you keep at it.
/s
I suppose you missed the meaning of that What im saying is that practice makes better.
No, he didn’t miss your meaning. You never talked about practice but instead are assuming arenanet are going to bring us some magical buffs which will improve the class. Guess what, if everything is fine and people are content with the crapfest of mirage as it is now, those buffs will never come.
Actually those buffs might never come regardless since arenanet are happy with mirages current state. That alone would have every semi-intelligent persons alarmbells go off.
Statement that anet is fine with current mirage? The community ahs been quite vocal about mirage’s underwhelming performance. What i dissagree with the general community on is that mirage needs tweaks and polish rather tha fundemental reworks. Also implied that its a matter of practice.
As for dps my dps isnt comming from me doing complex rotations. It comes from me summoning my phantasms at the start then aa my way to 30k. A 30k thats way easier to achieve than with power engi power thief guard ele condi dps/ps warr etc. Thats my point.
Everything is a matter of practice, that is valid for every class thus every class can be expected to improve.
Your 30k dps are clearly dps golem values and it becomes clear you’ve never actually played power mesmer in a raid, I have.
Guess what, even with a simple rotation which takes about 10 seconds to reach peak damage (which is insanely long compared to classes like elementalist or guardian who peak at the start of their rotation) we are dead last on just about every boss unless your dps are terrible players.
Sure engi has a very tough rotation, that’s bound to change with Holo. Necromancer isn’t meta for many fights too, might change with scourge. No mesmer will take damage placements from any semi decent warrior, elementalist, guardian, thief or even ranger.
Maybe actually play the classes you are commenting on first. You clearly have not played guardian, condi warrior or thief in raids.
Your 30k dps are clearly dps golem values and it becomes clear you’ve never actually played power mesmer in a raid, I have.
Guess what, even with a simple rotation which takes about 10 seconds to reach peak damage (which is insanely long compared to classes like elementalist or guardian who peak at the start of their rotation) we are dead last on just about every boss unless your dps are terrible players.
That’s not entirely true. In almost every raid fight there are mechanics you have to deal with. As a Power Mesmer (and Condi Mesmer) you can focus on the mechanics and still have DPS. Additionally, for fights like Sabetha, you don’t lose ramp time for each boss because your Phants stay (Condi still needs to ramp condis, though).
I would say that Power Mes is best run vs: VG and Sab, while doing decently at KC, Sloth, Cairn, MO, and being decent at best against Matthias.
For KC, you shouldn’t be top DPS, because if you are then you need better squadmates.
For VG and Sab, it’s “acceptable” because of the mechanics. VG has constant movement and requires CC, both of which Power Mesmer laughs at. For Sabetha, you can res, kick bombs, throw bombs, and avoid flame walls without hurting your DPS. Additionally, your Phants will retarget onto the new bosses when they come in, and then back onto Sabetha when she returns.
Sloth is nice because you have a lot of utilities available to you, and if you need to dodge/res/poison/etc, you’ll still have DPS. If you eat a Mushroom, however, you have to restart your ramp. It’s notable that it’s easy to hit higher relative DPS on Sloth because you have constant DPS while focusing on surviving. However, a selfish build on a fight like Sloth is not always great, and Power Mesmer lacks self-sufficiency, so you’ll need to be on good terms with your healers to stay alive if things go sour.
Cairn allows you to do good damage (easily top), but the downside to Cairn is if you accidentally get Shared Agony you will be spamming mantras for a minute. It is entirely possible to force yourself not to get Shared Agony, but things happen and losing 55% of your DPS for a minute is pretty harsh.
MO you’re able to get good DPS and move without hampering your rotation too much (you might cancel a few BF, big deal). However, only 60% of your DPS is cleave, so it might be better to run other damage dealers.
Matthias is awkward because there’s so many mechanics. As a Power Mes (not Chrono) you’ll have free reign over your utilities (Feedback, Signet of Domination) to support the team. However, there will be many points where you don’t attack due to the way the fight works. Thus, your DPS will heavily rely on RNG whereas running Condi allows you to constantly damage (unless you need to do Poison/Corrupts). Typically, Power and Condi will have the same damage output here, unlike most fights where Power is generally better.
Honestly, the only people in raids that peak faster than me are Guardians and after ~20s my DPS matches or tops theirs (PF ramp time). Elementalists definitely can surpass Power Mes DPS, but it requires skill (something most players, including me, lack) and also opportunities for things such as precasting (see: KC burn phase).
Check out this raid report from ~3 hours ago. First phase, I hit just under 29k DPS, although VG phase 1 is a golem battle. In the second and third phase, because I have to deal with mechanics (see: moving, avoiding blues while moving, CC) my DPS drops but sits around 24k.
Admittedly, some of the other DPS players do have to go to Green circles while I just twiddle my thumbs and auto attack, but not every DPS player is doing that, and it’s usually DPS that can still do something from afar.
@zealex.9410
which raid boss you feel that retarget will help a lot ? also did someone in this thread or other already tell you that your imagined uselessness does not work ?
require shatter to gain some rng weak bonus is not interact with shatter .20s cd , 33% rng on top of shatter lol
illusion dies when target dies , nothing to do with their hp . in new fractal , most bosses can only be retargeted after mini boss dies. so yeah this is huge mechanical flaw .
you are happy with a noob friendly build which core condi /power mes already offer and they are exactly same playstyle for entire class ? well you can be happy with that . but for many of us who raid often ,whats the point of this elite spec for pve ?it only often 2 passive traits for raids .
and can mirage clean shards for xera , can mirage do cannon , can mirage clean anything in most raid bosses , no you can’t .other classes could help much more while mirage only does single target dps and not great at it .yeah its noob friendly , but if you want smoother raid clean , you will play other dps . you can fill dps spot with other single class but u can’t do this with mirage for most bosses .
thief is locked into one action that is a kittening evading .
mirage does not offer more dmg avoidance(actually it has less dmg avoidance ) , it is supposed to make your dodge more useful but it failed horribly . nor does this matter for raid anyway . and in few boss fights , mirage dodge will be a huge downgrade as if it isn’t already (matt , non distortion green vg, sloth, and whole wing 4)
remember anet said they want mesmer being high skill ceiling class as excuse to nerf mesmer , what is high skill ceiling for dps mesmer build , u can’t improve over a stupid AI build.
and did you actually test that that two retarget skill ?
did you actually test Crystal Sands ("hardly a rework require ") its not an actual aoe and it hardly hits for full stacks .
Your 30k dps are clearly dps golem values and it becomes clear you’ve never actually played power mesmer in a raid, I have.
Guess what, even with a simple rotation which takes about 10 seconds to reach peak damage (which is insanely long compared to classes like elementalist or guardian who peak at the start of their rotation) we are dead last on just about every boss unless your dps are terrible players.
That’s not entirely true. In almost every raid fight there are mechanics you have to deal with. As a Power Mesmer (and Condi Mesmer) you can focus on the mechanics and still have DPS. Additionally, for fights like Sabetha, you don’t lose ramp time for each boss because your Phants stay (Condi still needs to ramp condis, though).
I would say that Power Mes is best run vs: VG and Sab, while doing decently at KC, Sloth, Cairn, MO, and being decent at best against Matthias.
For KC, you shouldn’t be top DPS, because if you are then you need better squadmates.
For VG and Sab, it’s “acceptable” because of the mechanics. VG has constant movement and requires CC, both of which Power Mesmer laughs at. For Sabetha, you can res, kick bombs, throw bombs, and avoid flame walls without hurting your DPS. Additionally, your Phants will retarget onto the new bosses when they come in, and then back onto Sabetha when she returns.
Sloth is nice because you have a lot of utilities available to you, and if you need to dodge/res/poison/etc, you’ll still have DPS. If you eat a Mushroom, however, you have to restart your ramp. It’s notable that it’s easy to hit higher relative DPS on Sloth because you have constant DPS while focusing on surviving. However, a selfish build on a fight like Sloth is not always great, and Power Mesmer lacks self-sufficiency, so you’ll need to be on good terms with your healers to stay alive if things go sour.
Cairn allows you to do good damage (easily top), but the downside to Cairn is if you accidentally get Shared Agony you will be spamming mantras for a minute. It is entirely possible to force yourself not to get Shared Agony, but things happen and losing 55% of your DPS for a minute is pretty harsh.
MO you’re able to get good DPS and move without hampering your rotation too much (you might cancel a few BF, big deal). However, only 60% of your DPS is cleave, so it might be better to run other damage dealers.
Matthias is awkward because there’s so many mechanics. As a Power Mes (not Chrono) you’ll have free reign over your utilities (Feedback, Signet of Domination) to support the team. However, there will be many points where you don’t attack due to the way the fight works. Thus, your DPS will heavily rely on RNG whereas running Condi allows you to constantly damage (unless you need to do Poison/Corrupts). Typically, Power and Condi will have the same damage output here, unlike most fights where Power is generally better.
Honestly, the only people in raids that peak faster than me are Guardians and after ~20s my DPS matches or tops theirs (PF ramp time). Elementalists definitely can surpass Power Mes DPS, but it requires skill (something most players, including me, lack) and also opportunities for things such as precasting (see: KC burn phase).
Check out this raid report from ~3 hours ago. First phase, I hit just under 29k DPS, although VG phase 1 is a golem battle. In the second and third phase, because I have to deal with mechanics (see: moving, avoiding blues while moving, CC) my DPS drops but sits around 24k.
Admittedly, some of the other DPS players do have to go to Green circles while I just twiddle my thumbs and auto attack, but not every DPS player is doing that, and it’s usually DPS that can still do something from afar.
well i did get high number in actual raid boss , but usually my DH does higher dps.
the thing is , yeah power /condi mes has easiest rotation , but most classes don’t get much it harder .many raid players will move on and improve on other classes for higher dps (not to mention high burst aoe dps allows raid group skip some mechanic ). also other reasons :
you can’t do anything but dps on boss . therefore , your raid group will need other dps to do the job like shard clean etc .
mesmer dps rotation is easier but other classes will make raid run much smoother . in other word : you are getting carried if you play dps mes for many boss fights except for matt even your number is highest .
i’m still waiting for a high skill ceiling dps build /spec for mesmer to come which we can use our shatter in rotation .
Your 30k dps are clearly dps golem values and it becomes clear you’ve never actually played power mesmer in a raid, I have.
Guess what, even with a simple rotation which takes about 10 seconds to reach peak damage (which is insanely long compared to classes like elementalist or guardian who peak at the start of their rotation) we are dead last on just about every boss unless your dps are terrible players.
That’s not entirely true. In almost every raid fight there are mechanics you have to deal with. As a Power Mesmer (and Condi Mesmer) you can focus on the mechanics and still have DPS. Additionally, for fights like Sabetha, you don’t lose ramp time for each boss because your Phants stay (Condi still needs to ramp condis, though).
I would say that Power Mes is best run vs: VG and Sab, while doing decently at KC, Sloth, Cairn, MO, and being decent at best against Matthias.
For KC, you shouldn’t be top DPS, because if you are then you need better squadmates.
For VG and Sab, it’s “acceptable” because of the mechanics. VG has constant movement and requires CC, both of which Power Mesmer laughs at. For Sabetha, you can res, kick bombs, throw bombs, and avoid flame walls without hurting your DPS. Additionally, your Phants will retarget onto the new bosses when they come in, and then back onto Sabetha when she returns.
Sloth is nice because you have a lot of utilities available to you, and if you need to dodge/res/poison/etc, you’ll still have DPS. If you eat a Mushroom, however, you have to restart your ramp. It’s notable that it’s easy to hit higher relative DPS on Sloth because you have constant DPS while focusing on surviving. However, a selfish build on a fight like Sloth is not always great, and Power Mesmer lacks self-sufficiency, so you’ll need to be on good terms with your healers to stay alive if things go sour.
Cairn allows you to do good damage (easily top), but the downside to Cairn is if you accidentally get Shared Agony you will be spamming mantras for a minute. It is entirely possible to force yourself not to get Shared Agony, but things happen and losing 55% of your DPS for a minute is pretty harsh.
MO you’re able to get good DPS and move without hampering your rotation too much (you might cancel a few BF, big deal). However, only 60% of your DPS is cleave, so it might be better to run other damage dealers.
Matthias is awkward because there’s so many mechanics. As a Power Mes (not Chrono) you’ll have free reign over your utilities (Feedback, Signet of Domination) to support the team. However, there will be many points where you don’t attack due to the way the fight works. Thus, your DPS will heavily rely on RNG whereas running Condi allows you to constantly damage (unless you need to do Poison/Corrupts). Typically, Power and Condi will have the same damage output here, unlike most fights where Power is generally better.
Honestly, the only people in raids that peak faster than me are Guardians and after ~20s my DPS matches or tops theirs (PF ramp time). Elementalists definitely can surpass Power Mes DPS, but it requires skill (something most players, including me, lack) and also opportunities for things such as precasting (see: KC burn phase).
Check out this raid report from ~3 hours ago. First phase, I hit just under 29k DPS, although VG phase 1 is a golem battle. In the second and third phase, because I have to deal with mechanics (see: moving, avoiding blues while moving, CC) my DPS drops but sits around 24k.
Admittedly, some of the other DPS players do have to go to Green circles while I just twiddle my thumbs and auto attack, but not every DPS player is doing that, and it’s usually DPS that can still do something from afar.
I will admit my view might be scewed a bit since I run in 2 raid squads per week. 1 being a hardcore raid guild where I won’t be top dps as mesmer no matter what I try (and I usually run cPS since our guild mesmer are all topnotch and can provide 12-15k dps while caping alacrity and quickness at over 90%+ both). The other being more causal where I usually just help out with still very skilled players.
So yes, maybe on a pug level mesmer dps might be tollerable especially when other dps have to run for greens (considering there is 4 dps spots, that makes it quite easy to be top dps).
Sabatha while a good fight for power mesmer you are top dps because 2 of your 4 dps are jumpers. The fight is also very favorable for elementalists and guardians due to low movement.
When comparing dps one has to look at dps from an even playing field. Power mesmer is terrible at jumping for Sabatha for example, toping the other dps because you can’t fill that role isn’t a fair comparison.
Also please do take note of your might, alacrity and quickness uptimes on that fight report. None of them are good and your 3rd dps sits at 16.5 might stacks average, 28% quickness and 7% alacrity AND it’s a dps druid. Hardly a fair comparison now is it? Imagine it had been a tempest, DH, thief or dps warrior who get at least 20 might average, 50% quickness and 50% alacrity (still not good values btw).
(edited by Cyninja.2954)
After playing a power Mirage in open world yesterday for a bit, I couldn’t disagree with the original post more. First of all, nobody is taking blurred frenzy away. Yes, the sword ambush attack is a bit lacklustre in terms of damage (they should buff it), but it provides steady clone generation and allows you to stick to your target like crazy. Clone generation means that you can basically shatter on cooldown, which gives you new mirrors, which equals more dodge and more clones. I have no idea how or if this would work in a high-end PVE environment (and frankly, I don’t care about it a bit), but as someone who plays base Mesmer for fun, Mirage with sword is a Mesmer on steroids.
After playing a power Mirage in open world yesterday for a bit, I couldn’t disagree with the original post more. First of all, nobody is taking blurred frenzy away. Yes, the sword ambush attack is a bit lacklustre in terms of damage (they should buff it), but it provides steady clone generation and allows you to stick to your target like crazy. Clone generation means that you can basically shatter on cooldown, which gives you new mirrors, which equals more dodge and more clones. I have no idea how or if this would work in a high-end PVE environment (and frankly, I don’t care about it a bit), but as someone who plays base Mesmer for fun, Mirage with sword is a Mesmer on steroids.
Since no matter what they do to Mirage it will work in open world pve, who cares?
That’s aproximately what your statement comes down to.
Now since you obviously don’t care about the balance state of Mirage, what do you care if arenanet addresses some of the issues so the build actually works in enviroments where it matters? It won’t affect your gameplay in anyway and at best might make things a little more harmonious and easy.
Since no matter what they do to Mirage it will work in open world pve, who cares?
That’s aproximately what your statement comes down to.
Now since you obviously don’t care about the balance state of Mirage, what do you care if arenanet addresses some of the issues so the build actually works in enviroments where it matters? It won’t affect your gameplay in anyway and at best might make things a little more harmonious and easy.
Its strange what you read into my post. I certainly have nothing agains Mirage being viable in higher tiers of gameplay. I was merely commenting on the original post.
What I am saying is that mechanic-wise, at least from my perspective (melee power playstyle), Mirage is a lot of fun and makes sense. They should definitely improve the damage though, it is a bit lacklustre given the supposed role.
Since no matter what they do to Mirage it will work in open world pve, who cares?
That’s aproximately what your statement comes down to.
Now since you obviously don’t care about the balance state of Mirage, what do you care if arenanet addresses some of the issues so the build actually works in enviroments where it matters? It won’t affect your gameplay in anyway and at best might make things a little more harmonious and easy.
Its strange what you read into my post. I certainly have nothing agains Mirage being viable in higher tiers of gameplay. I was merely commenting on the original post.
What I am saying is that mechanic-wise, at least from my perspective (melee power playstyle), Mirage is a lot of fun and makes sense. They should definitely improve the damage though, it is a bit lacklustre given the supposed role.
what exactly makes sense for you ?
your build has some traits which doesn’t work for power build like IH
and its mechanic-wise fun ?
if you don’t have anything to back up your highly personally opinion ,and we all knew you think it’s fun now , could you not argue or argument sake .
Since no matter what they do to Mirage it will work in open world pve, who cares?
That’s aproximately what your statement comes down to.
Now since you obviously don’t care about the balance state of Mirage, what do you care if arenanet addresses some of the issues so the build actually works in enviroments where it matters? It won’t affect your gameplay in anyway and at best might make things a little more harmonious and easy.
Its strange what you read into my post. I certainly have nothing agains Mirage being viable in higher tiers of gameplay. I was merely commenting on the original post.
What I am saying is that mechanic-wise, at least from my perspective (melee power playstyle), Mirage is a lot of fun and makes sense. They should definitely improve the damage though, it is a bit lacklustre given the supposed role.
I read exactly into your post what you wrote:
- you are playing power mesmer (mirage) in open world
- you are enjoying the way the build plays
- going by the build you use you have 0 idea of what you are doing (which is fine for open world pve)
- you don’t care about endgame balance and quite frankly are not participating in it (how else does one interpret the comment:“and frankly, I don’t care about it a bit”?)
Did I miss something? Those are all things which were easily deduced by either comments from you or by build links you provided.
So my question stands: What do you care? No matter what is done, mirage will remain viable for open world content. It already is just like most builds and classes which have an autoattack.
Infact can we get into this great delusion that Anet are going to buff the numbers? It took 5 years for them to give us a decent damage % trait and we are still dead last in DPS builds, even without taking into account how our mechanics don’t mesh with PvE. We are still waiting for CD reductions, buffs to weak auto attacks and the laughable damage of the weak attacks slapped on to Phantasm summoning skills.
Dead last in dps on a golem and dead last on an actual raid isnt really the same.
True, but banking on the fact that realistic damage scenarios being in your favor versus a static and always similar test scenario is very foolish. Especially when the class you are playing has contradictory mechanics and a long windup time due to having to summon part of its damage. What’s your point?
Infact can we get into this great delusion that Anet are going to buff the numbers? It took 5 years for them to give us a decent damage % trait and we are still dead last in DPS builds, even without taking into account how our mechanics don’t mesh with PvE. We are still waiting for CD reductions, buffs to weak auto attacks and the laughable damage of the weak attacks slapped on to Phantasm summoning skills.
But something that took you 3 hours to cook you can finish in 10 minutes if you keep at it.
/s
I suppose you missed the meaning of that What im saying is that practice makes better.
No, he didn’t miss your meaning. You never talked about practice but instead are assuming arenanet are going to bring us some magical buffs which will improve the class. Guess what, if everything is fine and people are content with the crapfest of mirage as it is now, those buffs will never come.
Actually those buffs might never come regardless since arenanet are happy with mirages current state. That alone would have every semi-intelligent persons alarmbells go off.
Statement that anet is fine with current mirage? The community ahs been quite vocal about mirage’s underwhelming performance. What i dissagree with the general community on is that mirage needs tweaks and polish rather tha fundemental reworks. Also implied that its a matter of practice.
As for dps my dps isnt comming from me doing complex rotations. It comes from me summoning my phantasms at the start then aa my way to 30k. A 30k thats way easier to achieve than with power engi power thief guard ele condi dps/ps warr etc. Thats my point.
Everything is a matter of practice, that is valid for every class thus every class can be expected to improve.
Your 30k dps are clearly dps golem values and it becomes clear you’ve never actually played power mesmer in a raid, I have.
Guess what, even with a simple rotation which takes about 10 seconds to reach peak damage (which is insanely long compared to classes like elementalist or guardian who peak at the start of their rotation) we are dead last on just about every boss unless your dps are terrible players.
Sure engi has a very tough rotation, that’s bound to change with Holo. Necromancer isn’t meta for many fights too, might change with scourge. No mesmer will take damage placements from any semi decent warrior, elementalist, guardian, thief or even ranger.
Maybe actually play the classes you are commenting on first. You clearly have not played guardian, condi warrior or thief in raids.
The opener doesnt hold insane value in a raid where a boss kill can take anywhere from 2 mins to 4-5.
I have played thief and giard in raids and i have played power mesmer in fractals ( a little).
Its much easier to stay on a respectable number during stressful phases since alot of your dmg doesnt need you to be the one constandly attacking or landing ground targets.
Your dps also moves with the boss an upsaude for the lack of good aoe.
@zealex.9410
which raid boss you feel that retarget will help a lot ? also did someone in this thread or other already tell you that your imagined uselessness does not work ?require shatter to gain some rng weak bonus is not interact with shatter .20s cd , 33% rng on top of shatter lol
illusion dies when target dies , nothing to do with their hp . in new fractal , most bosses can only be retargeted after mini boss dies. so yeah this is huge mechanical flaw .
you are happy with a noob friendly build which core condi /power mes already offer and they are exactly same playstyle for entire class ? well you can be happy with that . but for many of us who raid often ,whats the point of this elite spec for pve ?it only often 2 passive traits for raids .
and can mirage clean shards for xera , can mirage do cannon , can mirage clean anything in most raid bosses , no you can’t .other classes could help much more while mirage only does single target dps and not great at it .yeah its noob friendly , but if you want smoother raid clean , you will play other dps . you can fill dps spot with other single class but u can’t do this with mirage for most bosses .
thief is locked into one action that is a kittening evading .
mirage does not offer more dmg avoidance(actually it has less dmg avoidance ) , it is supposed to make your dodge more useful but it failed horribly . nor does this matter for raid anyway . and in few boss fights , mirage dodge will be a huge downgrade as if it isn’t already (matt , non distortion green vg, sloth, and whole wing 4)
remember anet said they want mesmer being high skill ceiling class as excuse to nerf mesmer , what is high skill ceiling for dps mesmer build , u can’t improve over a stupid AI build.
and did you actually test that that two retarget skill ?
did you actually test Crystal Sands ("hardly a rework require ") its not an actual aoe and it hardly hits for full stacks .
Because increasing the hitbox of the shards in crystal sands would be a total rework yeah right.
The synergies are there even if you find them weak.
@zealex.9410
which raid boss you feel that retarget will help a lot ? also did someone in this thread or other already tell you that your imagined uselessness does not work ?require shatter to gain some rng weak bonus is not interact with shatter .20s cd , 33% rng on top of shatter lol
illusion dies when target dies , nothing to do with their hp . in new fractal , most bosses can only be retargeted after mini boss dies. so yeah this is huge mechanical flaw .
you are happy with a noob friendly build which core condi /power mes already offer and they are exactly same playstyle for entire class ? well you can be happy with that . but for many of us who raid often ,whats the point of this elite spec for pve ?it only often 2 passive traits for raids .
and can mirage clean shards for xera , can mirage do cannon , can mirage clean anything in most raid bosses , no you can’t .other classes could help much more while mirage only does single target dps and not great at it .yeah its noob friendly , but if you want smoother raid clean , you will play other dps . you can fill dps spot with other single class but u can’t do this with mirage for most bosses .
thief is locked into one action that is a kittening evading .
mirage does not offer more dmg avoidance(actually it has less dmg avoidance ) , it is supposed to make your dodge more useful but it failed horribly . nor does this matter for raid anyway . and in few boss fights , mirage dodge will be a huge downgrade as if it isn’t already (matt , non distortion green vg, sloth, and whole wing 4)
remember anet said they want mesmer being high skill ceiling class as excuse to nerf mesmer , what is high skill ceiling for dps mesmer build , u can’t improve over a stupid AI build.
and did you actually test that that two retarget skill ?
did you actually test Crystal Sands ("hardly a rework require ") its not an actual aoe and it hardly hits for full stacks .
Because increasing the hitbox of the shards in crystal sands would be a total rework yeah right.
The synergies are there even if you find them weak.
its not just hitbox thing , it got blocked too often by random stuff or some hidden hitbox . also it only really works on pure flat place?well this is not a problem for raid but still ? .its only worth its cd if it hits full stacks .how about just making it a plain aoe .
what are the synergies ? you listed things , i proved that they did not work without mechanic change .
not to mention problem with phants .
axe 3 and iambush teleport you to random place , there is nothing to do with numbers.
shatter still deletes your dps , but mirage has traits to get mirror from shatter without meaningful clone generation . how its not mechanic issue ? unless you buff shatter dmg to broken op .
how those things make sense to you ?
and you talked about how useful retarget is , then me and someone both proved you are hyped over nothing .(you were saying nightmare boss 1 and 2 , shatter boss 2 and 3 . and few raid bosses .can you just admit you were wrong for this part ?
can you record you play mirage next time , and lets see how things work for you .
Infact can we get into this great delusion that Anet are going to buff the numbers? It took 5 years for them to give us a decent damage % trait and we are still dead last in DPS builds, even without taking into account how our mechanics don’t mesh with PvE. We are still waiting for CD reductions, buffs to weak auto attacks and the laughable damage of the weak attacks slapped on to Phantasm summoning skills.
Dead last in dps on a golem and dead last on an actual raid isnt really the same.
True, but banking on the fact that realistic damage scenarios being in your favor versus a static and always similar test scenario is very foolish. Especially when the class you are playing has contradictory mechanics and a long windup time due to having to summon part of its damage. What’s your point?
Infact can we get into this great delusion that Anet are going to buff the numbers? It took 5 years for them to give us a decent damage % trait and we are still dead last in DPS builds, even without taking into account how our mechanics don’t mesh with PvE. We are still waiting for CD reductions, buffs to weak auto attacks and the laughable damage of the weak attacks slapped on to Phantasm summoning skills.
But something that took you 3 hours to cook you can finish in 10 minutes if you keep at it.
/s
I suppose you missed the meaning of that What im saying is that practice makes better.
No, he didn’t miss your meaning. You never talked about practice but instead are assuming arenanet are going to bring us some magical buffs which will improve the class. Guess what, if everything is fine and people are content with the crapfest of mirage as it is now, those buffs will never come.
Actually those buffs might never come regardless since arenanet are happy with mirages current state. That alone would have every semi-intelligent persons alarmbells go off.
Statement that anet is fine with current mirage? The community ahs been quite vocal about mirage’s underwhelming performance. What i dissagree with the general community on is that mirage needs tweaks and polish rather tha fundemental reworks. Also implied that its a matter of practice.
As for dps my dps isnt comming from me doing complex rotations. It comes from me summoning my phantasms at the start then aa my way to 30k. A 30k thats way easier to achieve than with power engi power thief guard ele condi dps/ps warr etc. Thats my point.
Everything is a matter of practice, that is valid for every class thus every class can be expected to improve.
Your 30k dps are clearly dps golem values and it becomes clear you’ve never actually played power mesmer in a raid, I have.
Guess what, even with a simple rotation which takes about 10 seconds to reach peak damage (which is insanely long compared to classes like elementalist or guardian who peak at the start of their rotation) we are dead last on just about every boss unless your dps are terrible players.
Sure engi has a very tough rotation, that’s bound to change with Holo. Necromancer isn’t meta for many fights too, might change with scourge. No mesmer will take damage placements from any semi decent warrior, elementalist, guardian, thief or even ranger.
Maybe actually play the classes you are commenting on first. You clearly have not played guardian, condi warrior or thief in raids.
The opener doesnt hold insane value in a raid where a boss kill can take anywhere from 2 mins to 4-5.
I have played thief and giard in raids and i have played power mesmer in fractals ( a little).
Its much easier to stay on a respectable number during stressful phases since alot of your dmg doesnt need you to be the one constandly attacking or landing ground targets.
Your dps also moves with the boss an upsaude for the lack of good aoe.
I doubt you really played raid that often . the opener matters for vg , sab , kc , xera ,whole wing 4 (except carin). and it still matters but not much for sloth and gors .
still you didn’t answer my question :
how you clean shards on xera , orb on gors etc etc with dps mesmer .
people don’t run dps mesmer for many reasons . your dps mes takes one slot then rest of your team have to make up for that lacking of aoe . it’s a huge problem for boss like xera .
power mes in fractal lol is even trashier than in raid .
And guard rotation is not much harder anyway . what’s stressful phases you can’t do higher number on DH , except that very situational matt .
@zealex.9410
which raid boss you feel that retarget will help a lot ? also did someone in this thread or other already tell you that your imagined uselessness does not work ?require shatter to gain some rng weak bonus is not interact with shatter .20s cd , 33% rng on top of shatter lol
illusion dies when target dies , nothing to do with their hp . in new fractal , most bosses can only be retargeted after mini boss dies. so yeah this is huge mechanical flaw .
you are happy with a noob friendly build which core condi /power mes already offer and they are exactly same playstyle for entire class ? well you can be happy with that . but for many of us who raid often ,whats the point of this elite spec for pve ?it only often 2 passive traits for raids .
and can mirage clean shards for xera , can mirage do cannon , can mirage clean anything in most raid bosses , no you can’t .other classes could help much more while mirage only does single target dps and not great at it .yeah its noob friendly , but if you want smoother raid clean , you will play other dps . you can fill dps spot with other single class but u can’t do this with mirage for most bosses .
thief is locked into one action that is a kittening evading .
mirage does not offer more dmg avoidance(actually it has less dmg avoidance ) , it is supposed to make your dodge more useful but it failed horribly . nor does this matter for raid anyway . and in few boss fights , mirage dodge will be a huge downgrade as if it isn’t already (matt , non distortion green vg, sloth, and whole wing 4)
remember anet said they want mesmer being high skill ceiling class as excuse to nerf mesmer , what is high skill ceiling for dps mesmer build , u can’t improve over a stupid AI build.
and did you actually test that that two retarget skill ?
did you actually test Crystal Sands ("hardly a rework require ") its not an actual aoe and it hardly hits for full stacks .
Because increasing the hitbox of the shards in crystal sands would be a total rework yeah right.
The synergies are there even if you find them weak.
its not just hitbox thing , it got blocked too often by random stuff or some hidden hitbox . also it only really works on pure flat place?well this is not a problem for raid but still ? .its only worth its cd if it hits full stacks .how about just making it a plain aoe .
what are the synergies ? you listed things , i proved that they did not work without mechanic change .
not to mention problem with phants .
axe 3 and iambush teleport you to random place , there is nothing to do with numbers.shatter still deletes your dps , but mirage has traits to get mirror from shatter without meaningful clone generation . how its not mechanic issue ? unless you buff shatter dmg to broken op .
how those things make sense to you ?and you talked about how useful retarget is , then me and someone both proved you are hyped over nothing .(you were saying nightmare boss 1 and 2 , shatter boss 2 and 3 . and few raid bosses .can you just admit you were wrong for this part ?
can you record you play mirage next time , and lets see how things work for you .
Its a mechanic change to remove the % to summon a mirror on shatter? In my eyes not really just a realistic qol change. The problem of shatters being partially useless in pve is a mesmer issue i dont expect mirage to solve it. Mirage has ok clone generation but it could be better again small teaks to some of the traits
Also have it crosed your mind that this spec is made based around pvp? Much like spellbreaker is a pvp spec and deadeye looks to be more of a pve spec.
Infact can we get into this great delusion that Anet are going to buff the numbers? It took 5 years for them to give us a decent damage % trait and we are still dead last in DPS builds, even without taking into account how our mechanics don’t mesh with PvE. We are still waiting for CD reductions, buffs to weak auto attacks and the laughable damage of the weak attacks slapped on to Phantasm summoning skills.
Dead last in dps on a golem and dead last on an actual raid isnt really the same.
True, but banking on the fact that realistic damage scenarios being in your favor versus a static and always similar test scenario is very foolish. Especially when the class you are playing has contradictory mechanics and a long windup time due to having to summon part of its damage. What’s your point?
Infact can we get into this great delusion that Anet are going to buff the numbers? It took 5 years for them to give us a decent damage % trait and we are still dead last in DPS builds, even without taking into account how our mechanics don’t mesh with PvE. We are still waiting for CD reductions, buffs to weak auto attacks and the laughable damage of the weak attacks slapped on to Phantasm summoning skills.
But something that took you 3 hours to cook you can finish in 10 minutes if you keep at it.
/s
I suppose you missed the meaning of that What im saying is that practice makes better.
No, he didn’t miss your meaning. You never talked about practice but instead are assuming arenanet are going to bring us some magical buffs which will improve the class. Guess what, if everything is fine and people are content with the crapfest of mirage as it is now, those buffs will never come.
Actually those buffs might never come regardless since arenanet are happy with mirages current state. That alone would have every semi-intelligent persons alarmbells go off.
Statement that anet is fine with current mirage? The community ahs been quite vocal about mirage’s underwhelming performance. What i dissagree with the general community on is that mirage needs tweaks and polish rather tha fundemental reworks. Also implied that its a matter of practice.
As for dps my dps isnt comming from me doing complex rotations. It comes from me summoning my phantasms at the start then aa my way to 30k. A 30k thats way easier to achieve than with power engi power thief guard ele condi dps/ps warr etc. Thats my point.
Everything is a matter of practice, that is valid for every class thus every class can be expected to improve.
Your 30k dps are clearly dps golem values and it becomes clear you’ve never actually played power mesmer in a raid, I have.
Guess what, even with a simple rotation which takes about 10 seconds to reach peak damage (which is insanely long compared to classes like elementalist or guardian who peak at the start of their rotation) we are dead last on just about every boss unless your dps are terrible players.
Sure engi has a very tough rotation, that’s bound to change with Holo. Necromancer isn’t meta for many fights too, might change with scourge. No mesmer will take damage placements from any semi decent warrior, elementalist, guardian, thief or even ranger.
Maybe actually play the classes you are commenting on first. You clearly have not played guardian, condi warrior or thief in raids.
The opener doesnt hold insane value in a raid where a boss kill can take anywhere from 2 mins to 4-5.
I have played thief and giard in raids and i have played power mesmer in fractals ( a little).
Its much easier to stay on a respectable number during stressful phases since alot of your dmg doesnt need you to be the one constandly attacking or landing ground targets.
Your dps also moves with the boss an upsaude for the lack of good aoe.
I doubt you really played raid that often . the opener matters for vg , sab , kc , xera ,whole wing 4 (except carin). and it still matters but not much for sloth and gors .
still you didn’t answer my question :
how you clean shards on xera , orb on gors etc etc with dps mesmer .
people don’t run dps mesmer for many reasons . your dps mes takes one slot then rest of your team have to make up for that lacking of aoe . it’s a huge problem for boss like xera .power mes in fractal lol is even trashier than in raid .
And guard rotation is not much harder anyway . what’s stressful phases you can’t do higher number on DH , except that very situational matt .
Don’t disagree with most of your post, but in my raiding experience orbs on Gors are normally only dealt with by one or two people with AoE, like if you’re a condi ranger you just don’t touch the orbs because you’d be kitten at it, same with Hammer DH (so I’m told), so I wouldn’t use that as a reason for power mes being bad…
But other than that I agree, especially with power Mesmer fractals, the only reason it works in raid is because everything you fight is alive long enough for your phantasms to ramp up AND get summoned, but if you’ve got a PS warrior maybe it’d be alright? That’s the only way I can think of.
They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna