Guild Wars 2

Hello ANet, i really dont get the thing about GS1 beeing so out of place. It is the worst autoattack ingame, it has zero synergy with the fighting style of a Mesmer and it has not even a side effect besides its Damage, yet it has even a penalty.

It is a Greatsword and it doenst cleave, it has no buff for me or a debuff for my enemy, it has a penalty when fighting in closer range than 1200 and even on 1200 it is bad.
What am i with my GS? Shouldnt it be my ranged dps (aoe) power weapon?So, it isnt, but if so, i would compare it to the Elementalists Staff, but his 1Skill is way, way better. It has no use whatsoever in PvE, since so far, a Mesmer is pretty much a melee class when played on power anyway because of our shatter skills. It gets even worse, because one GS skill summons a illusion and the other one is a simple knockback, so the autohit should be useful, since it has to be used quite often. With a simple change, the GS could be a good addition to the other meele power weapons in PvE.

The Mesmer is a very good profession, yet their 1 skills are across-the-board weak, but thats kinda ok so far, but the GS1 is just not acceptable and i would like to hear why it is designed like that. So please dont get me wrong, this thread is only and alone about GS1, nothing else!!!

Welcome to playing a duelist class. If you’d like a cleaving greatsword, there’s some class called a Warrior or something that swings a greatsword around in a cleaving fashion.

If you’d like some pointers, summon your iZerker, follow up with a mirror blade and a mind stab, then swap to MH sword. There you will locate a cleaving weapon with which to slice and dice your way through inept, mindless PvE mobs to your hearts content. If you’re smart you’ll follow up with an F1 mind wrack before the target dies for some additional AoE burst.

If you’re super pro you can work a focus into the mix, gather foes togeather using a focus pull while casting an iWarden on top of them. Lots of nice aoe hits there.

If you’re still wanting more, perhaps mantra of pain will work for you.

All your complain seems to boil down to is asthetics, though you reason using the mechanical lack of cleave. Mesmer is not a great PvE class all things considered, others will do it better. That aside, if you really want to argue we don’t have any “cleave”, or aoe strikes, you’re just approaching this whole thing from the wrong angle.

You didnt understand me,its not about my AOE ability or anything else, its just that GS1 sucks. Thats it.

Well, you seem to be very disappointed by it. Upsides of GS1:

• 1200 range, we only have that on one other weapon which is mostly ignorable in this regard due to snail pace projectiles.
• No projectile AA.
• Stacks the slow trait in Chronomancer very well.
• Stacks the might trait in Domination very well.
• Procs sigils extremely reliably.
• Hits 5 targets in a line (compared to 3 for cleaving attacks).

Now, you saying that it doesn’t cleave and penalized short distance seems to indicate to me that you want to use it as a melee weapon.

It is not a melee weapon.

It’s a 1200 ranged weapon. Compare 2H Hammer on Revenant for a comparable setup, they use it as their ranged option.

Use one when you need to stay at range and snipe targets.

Carighan.6758:

It is not a melee weapon.

It’s a 1200 ranged weapon.

The problem is that “only” skill 1, 3, 4 are “usable” from range.
2 is easily dodged when used from range, 5 doesn’t even have the 1.2k range nor does it have enough knockback distance to help the AA produce better DPS, it’s more of an “AoE” interrupt/anti-SR skill (which is awesome btw!).

So a lot of ppl are using GS in melee and not “as intended” range weapon, and then the AA seems rather weak even if it’s superb used from range (and I would not change it as it’s really great).

Why do all the skills in a whatever weapon you are on about, have to be solely one sided (as in only range skills, or close range skills)

Sure I can see why GS skills can be quite problematic for a player that wants to focus on one thing only

But for me GS versatility as a weapon is in fact the reason why I love it so much, the auto attack is weak in damage yes, but that’s only on paper. In actual use, for example in PvP envoirment it is one of the strongest auto attacks in the whole game. Not because of numbers but because of its functionality.

GS is a great versatile weapon, that with you can change your playstyle on the fly. GS is probably the only weapon on mesmer which I think is 100% fine in design.

That being said as pointed out already we have our cleave weapon in sword already.

Kyori.6091:

Why do all the skills in a whatever weapon you are on about, have to be solely one sided (as in only range skills, or close range skills)

That’s what I was thinking, too.

GS5 is obviously to create range when someone jumps you, surprise, makes sense for a weapon where you don’t want to be in melee yourself.
And GS2 takes longer to fly to the target from range? Really? A projectile has to fly to the target? I am… surprised. :P

GS is a perfectly valid range weapon. Ranged AA encouraging distance, 3 ranged attacks (2-4), two of which are AE, one skill to defend yourself when jumped. In theory two if you include GS4.

Seems… solid enough?

GS 1 is one of the best ranged attacks. cant be reflected, pierces.. almost too good

Azure.8670:

GS 1 is one of the best ranged attacks. cant be reflected, pierces.. almost too good

This was a general opinion a while back, but there is no realistic way to say that anymore. Almost all range weapons attack trade with mesmer gs. Exceptions are necro staff and warrior longbow.

Azure.8670:

GS 1 is one of the best ranged attacks. cant be reflected, pierces.. almost too good

A Attack which is almost nevery usable and deals almost zero Damage, its Damage and usefulness will remain almost zero. Everytime my skill 2,3,4 is on CD i think like, “oh god kitten it kitten…”

Amaya.1483:

Everytime my skill 2,3,4 is on CD i think like, “oh god kitten it kitten…”

That’s why you have another weapon to switch to, I doubt any weapon you are supposed to stay in autottack for long is good design.

I’m a big fan of GS1… wouldn’t change it.

Also, didn’t you JUST make a post almost exactly like this one a week or two ago?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Suggestion-Greatsword-1/first#post5613759

Carighan.6758:

• Hits 5 targets in a line (compared to 3 for cleaving attacks).

It only hits 3 targets max. Your target plus up to two between.

The fact it’s a ranged attack that is NOT a projectile alone makes it good, let alone the fast mult-hit which is excellent for proccing crit effects.

I think the problem is a bit broader than that, it is that we lack ranged multiple target weapon. Both greatsword and staff have some AOE and some single target spells:

AOE:

• greatsword 3 and 4
• staff 5

single target:

• greatsword 1
• staff 3

bouncing (i.e. too unreliable to be called AOE):

• greatsword 2
• staff 1

So at the end, we have no good ranged AOE weapon nor ranged single target. Just a bad mix of the two on both our ranged weapons. I would love the staff phantasm to be changed to a AOE one (but still at range). For the greatsword, to some extent, the auto attack cleaves (it can hit 3 targets if you’re lucky), so it “may be fine” as it is.

I never use GS1, unless my opponents health is “muy pequeno” I literally can’t think of a way for this to be changed…

Azure.8670:

GS 1 is one of the best ranged attacks. cant be reflected, pierces.. almost too good

While in ranger land, they complain so much their staff auto is bad although it does 90% of the damage mesmer GS does at 1200 range at all range.

I do have to agree that dps wise GS1 is pretty meh. The upside of it is its synergy with on crit sigils and non-projectile attack.

Non-projectile attack is like 2-sided coin. No-projectiles – no combo effects. Though pluses from non-projectile weight more.
Doubtful that anybody uses 3ppl piercing ability at pvp.
Most of other classes have better ranged aa (sustain) options dps-wise imho.
Gs more like burst weapon for me. Using it as a ranged sustain dps cause no alternative, even with stow weapon and sigil procs .
In general I would be glad to a little gs aa dps buff (partially to compensate fire/lightning sigils nerf), make it non-target only (but still non projectile) and no scaling mb.

GS1 rocks. If you ue it in melee range ye sure it blows. Vs good players it’s almost 1/2 of my dps.

GS1 non-projectile propety rocks, but dps, emm… Sucks?
E.g. let’s compare to an engineer rifle hip shot. Hip shot piercing ability is better (piercerces through a target – more benefits, easier to use in fight), hits up to 5 targets (against gs aa 3 targets), do more dps (0.774 against 0.65 at max range), do not scale with range, isn’t target-only skill (usable against stealth enemies).
I don’t count multy hit part cause it have both advantages and disadvantages (hi, 1k+ retal backfire from 1 gs aa that hits like 1.5k).
Even raw 5-10% dps bust would be welcomed
And now we have dragon hunter longbow and revenant hammer

I mostly just hate the damage variance on the range. It might make some sense or so but I never fancied it when playing, since it’s so automatic and I really enjoy using the skills of whom most work best or benefits from close range.

GS is a really well designed weapon. It’s just not meant to be a weapon you rely on all the time, it’s a weapon you use when you’re closing in on the opponent to engage them in melee, or are retreating from them. It has a few skills that work well at any range (GS 1, 3 and 4,) and two skills that do more work the closer you are to the target (2 and 5). The bounce from 2 is also a convenient way to stack up some might, which can really be exploited in addition to Imagined Burden. I like to think of it as the weapon I use to spawn a bunch of quick clones which feed me Might, before I jump into melee for a big Mind Wrack and a face full of sword.

Mesmer GS 1 range is not 1200. It’s functionally closer to 1500. The beam gains all of the benefits from projectile attacks getting extra range (like ranger’s longbow), but cannot be deflected or reflected. I would argue it’s actually the second strongest 1200-capable ranged option in the game at the moment (ranger longbow takes first of course), and its cover condition pressure, might gain, high point-blank burst, boon-stripping, and rapid sigil procc’ing make it one of the best weapons to use in general through its sheer utility and burst with limited ways to deal with it.

Also, the attack doesn’t cleave – it penetrates. If someone stands in between you and your target, both will take damage. I’m seeing it used a lot now in group WvW play because it lets back-line players take hits as well as the front lines.

The DPS of #1 is bad relative to other classes, but so does ranged in general (Melee always out-dps’s it. Always.), and mesmers in general have low DPS. 20k+ shatters every few seconds, massive lockdown, and the best condition pressure in the game are meant to offset this, though.

No need to explain me how it works.
Not 1500. 1300-1350 max. Beam do not gains all benefits from projectile attacks getting extra range. First of all it is not projectile (not even 20% chance) attack, thus no combo (even random combo helps sometimes – condi cleanses, etc).
Second best ranged weapon? What about dragon hunter, revenant?
Gs is a good melee burst weapon, mediocre at mid-far range. Ranged damage is not bad if berserker hits and stay alive (there are still ppl who don’t autododge berserker?). Condi pressure, might stacking?.. Don’t tell about traits that do not compete to other ones. Boon ripping – yeah you are right – 1 aoe boon rip is good. Other classes have skills beside auto attack, which are good too. Rapid fire (I think you mean multihit auto attack), as I already wrote, is like 2-sided coin. You can proc on-crit sigil more often (sigil of fire/air mostly), but it hurts to hit enemy with retaliation. You hit enemy for like 1.5k+ and get 1k+ damage back. Plus sigils was nerfed recently.
Yes, it hits between you and target. But true piercing – when skill pierce through target. From spvp nature ppl mostly use target nearest (more comfortable due to key shortcut and mesmer fight tactic). In wvw where retal flyes everywhere you could get backfire 3k+ while doing 1.5k to target and less to 2 another enemies (cause they are closer ofter – range scaling). True piercing is better. It lands hit on additional targets either they are before target or behind. GS aa – only if before.
Other classes have much better ranged autoattacks. There either big shatters or big cond pressure, not together. BUT both of them are in MELEE range.