Guild Wars 2

Useless. It should be changed. I propose merging it with Mind Wrack and opening up F2 for something else.

In condition builds, Cry is next to useless. In any other build it’s completely useless.

I know this has been mentioned before, but every other class can utilize its class mechanic for any build type. Mesmers, on the other hand, can at best utilize 3/4 of our class mechanic, and for many builds much less.

Conceptually, shatters are an awesome idea. But a change to Cry of Frustration could start the process of better refining them.

Anyway, I can’t really think of how Cry should be changed. I think ideally it should be merged with Mind Wrack, thus giving F1 a little utility for both power and condi builds. This would leave F2 open for something new. Maybe condition clears? Boon strips? AOE Might? There are some good ideas within our traits, but unfortunately they’re only used in very specific builds, when they could easily be included in everyone’s.

Also, please do let me know if there are good uses for F2 that I am currently missing.

Just a random brainstorm. Thoughts on the Confusing Cry trait being permanently rolled into it, making it pop both confusion and retaliation by default? I used to always roll with it when leveling and it seemed to give it at least some kick.

Condition shatter builds in raid WvW it can be used quite good actually. And what? Trait 5 points in illusions and you got your 6 stacks confusion. Doesn’t seem really bad imo.
Also builds that rely on boon stacking it’s pretty good with retal on use.
Other than that it deals a bit damage in zerker builds.

BlackDevil.9268:

Condition shatter builds in raid WvW it can be used quite good actually. And what? Trait 5 points in illusions and you got your 6 stacks confusion. Doesn’t seem really bad imo.
Also builds that rely on boon stacking it’s pretty good with retal on use.
Other than that it deals a bit damage in zerker builds.

I guess I was a tiny bit too harsh … though not by much. But even if it has a bit of use in a condition shatter build (which, it must be said, is not the most commonly run), it still has basically no utility in most builds—not something you really want from a class mechanic.

Bunda.2691:

BlackDevil.9268:

Condition shatter builds in raid WvW it can be used quite good actually. And what? Trait 5 points in illusions and you got your 6 stacks confusion. Doesn’t seem really bad imo.
Also builds that rely on boon stacking it’s pretty good with retal on use.
Other than that it deals a bit damage in zerker builds.

I guess I was a tiny bit too harsh … though not by much. But even if it has a bit of use in a condition shatter build (which, it must be said, is not the most commonly run), it still has basically no utility in most builds—not something you really want from a class mechanic.

Well there’s a lot things as mesmer that has no use. I mean, look at the utility’s only and you can pick at least 5 skills that are pretty much useless. But yeah, every class got his useless utility’s.

Actually now I read it again, merging it with mind wrak and making f2 something else wouldn’t even be a bad idea. Shatter builds are pretty much the underdog so this could stimulate it quite a lot yes.

Give it the interruption effect and the cussing of mob just its GW1 version on top of its current effect.

What about:

• All illusions (including yourself from Ipersona) shattered by cry of frustration, also trigger on-death traits.
• cry of frustration also applies retaliation to an area around the Mesmer, 2 seconds per illusion.
• still does the same damage, but does 2 confusion stacks instead of 1

• Also change the ‘confusing shatters: all shatters cause confusion’ (cant remember the name :/.) trait to cause 2 stacks of confusion.

• Change ‘confusing cry’ to apply protection aswell as retaliation, 5 seconds regardless of illusions. It would make it easier for you to ‘tank’ someone, forcing confusion damage.

Currently cry of frustration is only really good for 2 things: removing boons, and removing conditions :P

These changes could make it usefull in condition/clonespam builds.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Cry_of_Frustration

i still like some guildwars 1 skills the mesmer had.

I agree. You’re only going to really use one or the other in any given build based on whether you’re condi or power specced, it’s redundant to separate it into two separate shatters.
If necessary, the combined “Mindwrack of Frustration” shatter could be nerfed, and related traits buff. In other words nerf the damage and confusion on the new ‘mind wrack’, buff Mental Torment, then make Illusionary Retribution into a major trait and buff it(to compensate for the baseline nerf). This way the baseline shatter isn’t too strong, and you can trait to buff which ever component of the shatter is most useful to your build.

Not entirely sure what to propose for a new F2, perhaps some sort of illusion protection? For example “All illusion gain 5 seconds of distortion, upon ending they shatter on their target and inflict on-death traits”. I can think of many heavy aoe situations, PvE PvP and WvW, where a few extra seconds of survival for my illusions would be useful. Gives me a chance to shatter(mindwrack), or gives phantasm a chance to actually get an(extra) attack off.

With “Illusionary Persona” trait, you can do 8 stacks of confusion with it, but it’s only good in pvp though.

Cry of Frustration is only bad because Confusion is now bad. You have to fix the core problems, not the symptoms of them. Confusion needs a rework … and so does retaliation for that matter.

Caro.2730:

With “Illusionary Persona” trait, you can do 8 stacks of confusion with it, but it’s only good in pvp though.

Hardly, since the 50% damage nerf.

Scepter 3 has the same issue. To much effort (time) to get 5 (to weak now) confusion stacks up.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Scepter 3 has the same issue. To much effort (time) to get 5 (to weak now) confusion stacks up.

But at least Scepter 3 has a decent duration with + condition duration gear/food and the +33% confusion duration trait. Cry of Frustration, due to its short base duration, as well as the fact that it causes clones to stop inflicting conditions while they run to the target and the fact that it negates on-death traits, make it in a far worse situation for condition builds. The only time I can see myself using it is if I had all three clones within melee range of the target and could immediately produce three more.

It’s a confusion bomb and it does that well enough. The problem is confusion in general, which reflects poorly on this skill. But I agree that it could use a little more flexibility. Maybe an option to change its effect from confusion damage to cripple or daze or something?

Solution : up confusion a little. Or/and rework confusion dmg x cast time (usefull pve with mob low cast animation).

I feel that confusion and torment should have different effects in PvE. Mob sluggish behavior set aside for the moment, these conditions just aren’t PvE conditions.

Mobs will never react to them. A monster isn’t going to stop attacking to wait out a confusion stack. They’re not going to stop moving moving because of torment. They’re what we’d call soft control, because they promote a desired behavior with the threat of punishment rather than demand it through hard stops.

But why should a monster care? They always take the minimal amount of movement and action necessary, and are buffed with large health pools and powerful attacks to compensate. They’re built as the perfect machines to defy these conditions with little to no consequences.

Torment, yeah, we can kind of LoS or kite them and abuse their bad AI. It’s not great, but it’s there. Confusion, as things are right now, will never be useful. They could triple the damage, it would likely still be suboptimal. It needs to do something completely different to AI creatures. Buffing it isn’t going to change the fundamental incompatibility. It needs to actually affect their behavior.

Literally confuse them? I don’t know. But as it is now, that little swirly is there right now purely for human brains. The AI needs to learn to show it the same respect.

Confusion should work just like Torment, except that you take more damage if you use an ability during the second before it tics. This will allow them to up the duration of confusion to Torment levels making confusion actually decent in PvE.

Retaliation should be charges that do a fixed amount of damage (modified by power). Fixed duration, stacks in charges. Charge with the least amount of time is used first. This way they can up the damage on it to be useful again.

Taldren.7523:

Confusion should work just like Torment, except that you take more damage if you use an ability during the second before it tics. This will allow them to up the duration of confusion to Torment levels making confusion actually decent in PvE.

That’s really interesting. I’m not 100% sold on it, since it doesn’t directly address the pve issues (I do admit that when it comes to pve, conditions have many issues), but I still really like it.

It works thematically too. It’s like a psychic infection. You can’t completely shake it, but if you comply then you can at least minimize the pain. It fits the domination aspect of the mesmer fairly well.

I am concerned that it would make confusion less imposing. Though I don’t know. Mesmers. You’re used to getting blasted with conditions and just having to deal with it. If you have a few stacks of torment on you and no cleanse available, how inclined are you to stop moving? If confusion worked like this, would it really make you more cautious in your choice of attacks?

Honestly, I really don’t want more conditions to “just be another DoT”.

We got DoTs. Burning, Bleeding, Torment, Poison. Plenty dots!

Carighan.6758:

Honestly, I really don’t want more conditions to “just be another DoT”.

We got DoTs. Burning, Bleeding, Torment, Poison. Plenty dots!

50 DKP MINUS !!

MORE DOTS !!!

What we have now doesn’t work anymore. Getting 14 stacks on someone is somewhat of a chore now and does less damage then I see people do with auto attacks. Same for Retaliation.

I think the problem with many confusion applicators is that they hark from a time when Confusion was genuinely dangerous all around.
While some (Runes for example, or the Warrior trait) have accepted the new balance of Confusion, and work in that context.

I am not in favour of just buffing all ways of applying Confusion though, I’d rather have them re-do Confusion slightly.

Traited for retaliation is kind if key in some builds. But a simple combination or rework could fix this.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Scepter 3 has the same issue. To much effort (time) to get 5 (to weak now) confusion stacks up.

What are you doing on this forum you filthy necromancer? ;>