Guild Wars 2

During the last 3 years a lot has changed for mesmers. Most being nerfs (confusion, scepter) and some general quality of life improvements. With HoT around the corner and the new trait system in place: What are the things that could and should be improved to make mesmers a lot more interesting to play as well as put it in a better spot compared to other classes for different parts of the game:

Deceptive EvasionA lot has been said about Deceptive Evasion as a trait, with chronomancer we get IR and still the feedback has been quite consistent: Deceptive Evasion is a must for virtually any build. So why should it be baseline:

-As stated before by the Devs themselves the class itself relies on shattering. Something the devs have recognised before in making the cooldowns 15% lower as a baseline, with another 15% gained from the illusions traitline.

Key here therefore is: We need illusions to shatter, while maintaining a balancing act so it’s not a perma shatter spike. So what can we do now? If you trait illusions these are the cooldowns:

Mind wrack: 10.25 seconds
cof: 21.25 seconds
diversion: 31.25 seconds
distortion: 42.5 seconds

That’s 8 shatters in 42.5 seconds or 5.31 seconds for 3 clones.

Without DE and using a scepter (our main clone generating weapon) we pop a clone every 1.75 seconds for 3 clones every 5.25 seconds. All seems fine doesn’kitten We got phantasms to match those clones? Euhm……..no.

During all changes many classes got access to cleaving skills on auto attacks (necro dagger for example), while clones never changed. This means in any pvp/wvw situation clones more often then not are collateral damage. This for most fights takes us to a place where we simply lack shatter ammunition. It’s like saying to a warrior you can’t build adrenaline or an elementalist to not being able to change attunements: it prevents us from using our class mechanics to it’s full potential.

Enter DE: With Deceptive Evasion we got a reasonable additional source to pop some clones out. It’s far from perfect, but it gives us a little bit of room to play with our class mechanics. Given how that currently is situated in the game and it being the only way for us to have any reasonable chance of at least shattering something: Please make DE baseline. It would open up a lot more build variation at the same time, since duelist line is no longer obligatory to take.

In the past this would have been impossible since killing clones gave conditions to those around it, but since all of that got removed there should be no boundry anymore to change this.

Phantasms in pvp/wvw

For pve I think they are at a fine spot. At worldbosses like Golem Mark II they take reduced damage and can survive in order to be functional. However just like I mentioned above: Phantasms didn’t evolve with the rest of the game. The main damage output and cleaving on auto attacks has become so big that more often then not phantasms are another innocent bystander being killed without people even trying to do so. The only exception if well placed might be iduelist due to the range it has, but that’s about it. It kills a lot of build variation we could and probably should have. Any phantasms within a 600 or less range will be insta killed.

Just to be clear: This doesn’t change if you trait for your phantasms to have more hp (persisting images). The raw dps in game has simply increased to much with all the buffs most classes had. A solution could be really simple and given how iavenger has become melee now even more important then it already is:
-Either give them the damage reduction they receive on worldbosses in every situation so people will need to hit them more often to kill them instead of the accidental aoe
-Make phantasms stronger baseline (more hp or probably better: more toughness independant of gear) for a similar result. This in term would synergize nicely with chronophantasm, which has and will suffer from the same squishyness.

Scepter

Amongst our main hand/double handed weapons we got 1 a bit OP (GS when traited), 2 in a solid spot (staff and sword) and 1 really sluggish still: The scepter.
The weapon some love and many dislike really could use some tlc. The speedboost is great. It really is. The change to confusing images was just spot on. It needed to be faster and hit a bit more. Skill 2 was perfect if you block with it, though the blind is slugish.

Sadly: The auto attack is what really hurts when you compare it to other classes. The attack itself is decent both in damage and speed, but it’s the torment that is out of sink. Part of this comes down to the nature of torment: It’s just not that potent a condition and 1 stack (~85 damage/second) is nothing but a tickle for classes like warriors or necro’s who got over 20k hp. It’s something even the devs themselves recognise if you take a look at the bwe3 rev change notes.

Just a little reminder of where scepter is coming from: Instead of torment it started out as giving confusion, which perfectly fits the mesmer theme and skill 3 of the same weapon. It was a way to punish people for acting against us and yes with the old confusion, before it got nerfed to the ground, it was OP for sure. I can see why devs don’t want torment to hurt to hard: a mesmer has access to both torment and confusion so can potentially shut an enemy down from casting and moving making them a sitting duck. however with the new way confusion works:

Why not remove the torment from the scepter and give it it’s old confusion back. The synergy with the illusions line and the rest of the weapon is obvious. (could even change the block to 5 confusion instead of 5 torment). It’ll make it more potent again and much more in line with the theme of the weapon as well as other classes mid ranged weapons. The old confusion issues back in the glam-slam mesmer days are long gone. The game has progressed, people have progressed and the condition itself is a shade of what it was. Yet even as a shade it’s better then torment currently is. On top of that it’s perfect for what a mesmer has been about since gw1: Shutting down opponents or punishing them for ignoring those shutdowns.

Another option would be to give it the same treatment most classes got: make scepter “cleave”. Either by making the third auto attack having an aoe effect or if you really want to stick with torment on it giving it aoe torment just like the sigil does (just double the stack if you do please). I’m sure if you guys run the dps numbers you’ll see it’s lacking.

Interrupts

The last point I want to try and bring forward in this post are interrupts. It put a big smile on my face when you guys introduced the new traits surrounding it. Interrupts are fun playing around, you can trait them to punish your enemies in several ways while they are still hard to land due to timing. However in the bwe I noted something with the potential to seriously hurt the interrupt option: A surplus of stability stacks/resistance for several classes which makes them impossible to land. While many other classes got unblockable skills/trait we got no skills of importance (other then gs3) doing just that. A small suggestion therefore to keep the mesmers unique feeling and interrupt mechanic in place: give us an unblockable interrupt or at least an option to trait for them being unblockable (looking at you mantra of distraction)

The end

To end on a high: I really like the way mesmer and the game in general has involved during the past 3 years. Some things really improved and a lot of bugs finally got fixed. I’m just hoping you guys can take the last step to making mesmers as awesome as they have been in the past and not just looking blindly at 1 weapon/trait combo that is close to overpowered. A lot of classes have gotten massive increases the last year. While there is no need for mesmers to become highest dps class or something close to that it would be great if you could introduce some quality of life improvements that keep us competitive.

I disagree on making DE baseline, it’s not necessary at all. It’s the same as for “Fast Hands” on Warriors. The trait is a huge improvement for most builds, but not necessary. You can do just fine without it, especially with the new Chronomancer traits introduced (Chronophantasma, IR). Most people will start yelling “show me a metabuild not involving trait XY rabblerabble!”, but it’s just a matter of getting used to a different playstyle. And don’t forget that Illusionary Persona is baseline, so “empty” shatters won’t happen anymore.

I agree for the most part on your other points. Scepter still feels somehow clunky. However, did I miss something on resistance affecting interrupts? I thought it’d only give you immunity to conditions.

Concerning phantams, I’d go that far and give them those few seconds blur as baseline, just so that they pull of their first attack chain. Phantasms should be fragile (at least the damage dealer ones), if someone decides to kill them, he/she should be able to pull it of fast. However, the first attack chain should always trigger. Not hit, but at least trigger. The enemy can still dodge/block/LoS the attack, but having phantasms blown up before they even attack resulst in having a full blown cooldown doing absolutely nothing.

One other thing I wanna add is the weird >>theoretical<< handicap a Mesmer has vs. some skills/specs in particular. Like the upcoming Reaper shouts which benefit a great amount from hitting multiple targets. Now I haven’t tested Reaper yet, but I imagine shouts being really nasty in small scale fights vs. a Mesmer. Outside of rarely played specs (spirit wep Guard or post-nerf turret Engi), no other class has to deal with that issue. Now I’m not calling for nerfs or anything, but maybe someone can share his/her experience and opinion on that.

tetrodoxin.2134:

However, did I miss something on resistance affecting interrupts? I thought it’d only give you immunity to conditions.

You didn’t miss anything. Only Stability can block interrupts, Resistance has no effect on hard CC.

I only read 2 sections but I disagree on both and I think you are aiming in the wrong direction.

Clones / Phantasms die to cleave, so you want more. The real solution is fix cleave by giving AoE immunity (Or damage reduction) so they don’t get killed immediately. Increasing generation is a bandage that will impact other areas.

Then you don’t like Torment so you want it changed to Confusion. Again the real solution is to make Torment useful. I even think Torment fits a Mesmer just as well as Confusion.

I will read the rest later, but bare in mind that you need to fix the source of problems not just avoid them.

Yvi.5762:

I only read 2 sections but I disagree on both and I think you are aiming in the wrong direction.

Clones / Phantasms die to cleave, so you want more. The real solution is fix cleave by giving AoE immunity (Or damage reduction) so they don’t get killed immediately. Increasing generation is a bandage that will impact other areas.

Then you don’t like Torment so you want it changed to Confusion. Again the real solution is to make Torment useful. I even think Torment fits a Mesmer just as well as Confusion.

I will read the rest later, but bare in mind that you need to fix the source of problems not just avoid them.

If you read it all you’d have noticed I posted both things you mentioned above for a solution as well as offering an alternative to those suggestions.

As far as torment is concerned: I like the idea behind it, but even if you look at our traits we got non that benefit torment (only one that gives torment on shatter: maim), while we got multiple around confusion (on shatter (adept), on interrupt, on blind, longer duration (grandmaster)), just like we got a traitline build around vulnerability. From that perspective confusion would make more sense, though improving torment, just like they are considering for revenants, should do just fine.

Clones dying before they were useful has always been a major downside for Mesmer. The other thing is that they are basically slow and dumb.

On the one hand they have to be close to hit and on the other they can’t be close or they won’t survive. Catch 22. Chronomancer has addressed this slightly with [Time Catches Up], which I think should be baseline.

DE baseline? When will this suggestion ever stop. It would be a terrible change for pve.

Yes, because one of the top three classes in the game needs buffs

InsidiousWaffle.7086:

Yes, because one of the top three classes in the game needs buffs

Yes, mesmer is in a pretty good state but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t look for improvements for some obviously lackluster areas.

Also, your top three perception is way too subjective. The truth is mesmer is not the top three most common class in tournament pvp, mesmer is not the top three most common class in organized wvw raid, mesmer is probably also not the top three most common class in either organized or pug dungeon/fractal runs.

really? what the kitten more do you want? mesmer is number 2 behind ele right now can’t get any better than we have it already.

Mogar.9216:

really? what the kitten more do you want? mesmer is number 2 behind ele right now can’t get any better than we have it already.

“We”.

Nice try.

HypnoticEyes.2683:

Deceptive EvasionA lot has been said about Deceptive Evasion as a trait, with chronomancer we get IR and still the feedback has been quite consistent: Deceptive Evasion is a must for virtually any build. So why should it be baseline:

…no. There are quite a few builds that don’t use DE, and chrono is decreasing that reliance even more.

HypnoticEyes.2683:

During all changes many classes got access to cleaving skills on auto attacks (necro dagger for example), while clones never changed.

Thief auto and necro auto got adjusted to 2 target attacks. This is hardly a game-changer for illusion survivability.

HypnoticEyes.2683:

Phantasms in pvp/wvw
For pve I think they are at a fine spot.

Uh…are you for serious right now?

HypnoticEyes.2683:

At worldbosses like Golem Mark II

/facepalm

HypnoticEyes.2683:

1 really sluggish still: The scepter.

Ok, I’m with you so far.

HypnoticEyes.2683:

Sadly: The auto attack is what really hurts when you compare it to other classes.

Yep yep, still doing good!

HypnoticEyes.2683:

The attack itself is decent both in damage and speed, but it’s the torment that is out of sink.

allofmywat.jpg

Are you for serious right now?

HypnoticEyes.2683:

A surplus of stability stacks/resistance for several classes which makes them impossible to land.

You do realize that resistance doesn’t affect interrupts, right? You also realize that mesmer has ample access to boon strip, right?

HypnoticEyes.2683:

While many other classes got unblockable skills/trait we got no skills of importance (other then gs3) doing just that.

I’m trying really really hard to figure out how you’ve managed to connect unblockable skills with interrupts and stability, but I’m failing.

To summarize: For real?

As for PvE I can only say: nty for de baseline :<

What PvE mesmers need right now are:

• phantasms benefit from runes and sigils
• mantra recharge fix (system flaws)

And maybe some QoL changes, like warlock attack, bounces turning into aoes, etc – QoL changes are always the best changes. They don’t buff a class too much, but they feel SOOOO good

What PvE really needs is a reason to Shatter Phantasms that doesn’t include the word “Chronomancy”.

Illusions:

• Illusions die too fast during fights.
  This has be addressed so many times before; but still no changes.
  So for PvE and WvW (not PvP):
  Increase the health of Illusions.
  Illusions take less damage.
  Illusions take less aoe-damage.
  Illusions are invincible until they done their first attack.
• Clones attack more often than Phantasms.
  So additionally add an auto-attack to the Phantasms which they can use between their main-attacks.
  With this change, Bleeding, caused by critical hits, could be stacked better.
• When Illusions die during fight, or when Illusions disappear after an enemy’s death, they should explode and cause damage and conditions.

.

Winds of Chaos:
The speed of the Orb is way too slow.
This was stated so many times before.

In addition to that, this skill feels kind of to random to me.
If Vulnerability procs too often you can lose your Bleeding or Burning stacks.
So why not change it like this:

„Winds of Chaos causes Bleeding.
Critical hits additional cause Burning.
There is a chance of X% to additional cause Vulnerability.“
or
„Winds of Chaos causes Bleeding or Burning.
Critical hits additional cause Confusion.
There is a chance of X% to additional cause Vulnerability.“

.

Chaotic Transference is a great trait.
But useless for those like me, using these stats:
Condition Damage, Power, Precision.

Chaotic Dampening on the other hand feels very weak.
So why not add this to Chaotic Dampening:

„Gain Condition Damage based on your Precision.“
or
„Gain Ferocity based on your Condition Damage.“

.

Ether Clone: Summoning a Clone with the first skill? I never liked this game mechanics. Get rid of this chain-function and just let us use Ether Bolt.
Or exchange the Clone for an additional condition.
At least make the Clone to be summoned at the position of the Mesmer. It happens so often (especially in big fights) that the clone is summoned and instantly dies.
Pain could be changed to Bleeding or Burning, as it is the weakest condition.

.

Illusionary Counter: When using this skill, the clone should be summoned and Torment should be applied to the target, instantly.
Better change it to just one skill like this:

• Illusionary Counter:
  Gain Aegis for 2 seconds and at the same time shoot a bolt that damages and blinds your target and enemies, it passes through. Affected enemies also suffer Torment.
  In addition to that you summon a clone at your position that casts Ether Bolt.

.

Danger Time should get an additional effect. This could be:

• Increases your damage against slowed enemies.
• Increases your critical hit damage against slowed enemies.
• Slowed enemies take a random condition from all your spells: Bleeding, Burning, Poison, Confusion, Pain.

.

Lost Time should get an additional effect. This could be:

• Gain Ferocity based on your Precision.

tetrodoxin.2134:

One other thing I wanna add is the weird >>theoretical<< handicap a Mesmer has vs. some skills/specs in particular. Like the upcoming Reaper shouts which benefit a great amount from hitting multiple targets. Now I haven’t tested Reaper yet, but I imagine shouts being really nasty in small scale fights vs. a Mesmer. Outside of rarely played specs (spirit wep Guard or post-nerf turret Engi), no other class has to deal with that issue. Now I’m not calling for nerfs or anything, but maybe someone can share his/her experience and opinion on that.

Since Reaper was basically all I’ve been playing in BWE I can firmly say that there’s only a couple worth using and at best they’re average. Definitely not something you should worry about since you won’t be seeing a lot of it. Are you talking about Reaper getting benefits from their shouts by hitting the mesmer + clones though? If so I never really tested that in like a 1v1 situation so I’ll get back to you.

@OP: Deceptive Evasion being baseline is something that everyone has asked for since the beginning and the consensus from A.net is that it’s not a necessary change. I would actually have to agree since they made IP baseline now. Before mesmers were hampered because their best way to do damage in pvp required both of those traits and now that you don’t need one it opens up so many options that were never possible before. DE no longer needs a change because we’ve also been given other viable ways to generate clones. The production rate certainly isn’t as high, but if you use it effectively it gets the job done.

I still think the one big step which is scary but should be done before anything else is to swap Shatter (a context-requiring mechanic) off the class bar and clone/phantasm generation (a context-free mechanic) onto it.

As in, our class mechanic would be clones and phantasms, fully, instead of being it while the bar shows something else.

Then from there, a lot of things can be done. Balancing Shatter becomes much easier because now it’s weapon- and utility-skills, so it’s depending on what we have equipped + there can be healing or elite shatters.
Clone/Phantasm generation is no longer bound to weapons, meaning that it can be fully balanced as the main class mechanic. Phantasms specifically can be rebalanced according to desired output.