Guild Wars 2

Player minions will get a 95% damage reduction in PvE if not targeted directly by enemy NPCs. That includes Clones and phantasms!

Original thread here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Upcoming-Global-Change-to-Player-Minions

Pretty excited now.
First step, maybe we’ll see similar changes for PvP/WvW in the future. Fingers crossed :0

Awwww yissss……..

<3

Though, how would that affect the non-targetable attacks, like when lupi floats into the air and life-drains everyone around him, and then does dmg at his location when he lands…

New Phantasm meta confirmed. Everyone adjust your builds accordingly :P

This is huge for phantasm mesmer and open pve. Oh wow, the Warden won’t die in one hit of aoe.

I just read that myself, sweet, eh?

Still useless in WvW, but a step forward is still a step forward, right?

This will make PVE so much more enjoyable now. I’m really happy.!!

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Still useless in WvW, but a step forward is still a step forward, right?

Yeah… poor WvW mesmers. :-( I’ll still try to make it ‘work’.
I had pretty good success taking superspeed and the illusion health signet, but it’s still not very ideal.

I’d love to see a portion of this damage reduction carry over in to WvW.

Does this apply to ‘cleave’ affects as well? Would seem to trivialise some encounters if you could just send a bunch of phantasms in and only one of them ever take full damage.

This is the best change I could hope for as a PvE Mesmer. Really, really happy about this.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

New Phantasm meta confirmed. Everyone adjust your builds accordingly :P

new? o.ô

Might have to keep my Focus instead of Shield afterall.

This could be really really interesting for I-defender, if you set it on a raid boss, have some one come in to tank it, the the defender will only take 5% of 50% of the tanks damage, unless it some how still takes the full hit. If the tank out puts any healing or if there is a druid, the defender could be sustained indefinately. Making it instumental in raid encounters that use any kind of a tank as it will be a almost constant 50% damage reduction.

So …. defender becomes very strong all of the sudden

Xyonon.3987:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

New Phantasm meta confirmed. Everyone adjust your builds accordingly :P

new? o.ô

Old phantasm meta had to account for phantasm fragility, and also suffered immensely anyway because often you just can’t.
New phantasm meta pops iWarden/iDefender/iAvenger and watches in amazement as it facerubs the boss and stays alive.

Kaamau.5341:

This could be really really interesting for I-defender, if you set it on a raid boss, have some one come in to tank it, the the defender will only take 5% of 50% of the tanks damage, unless it some how still takes the full hit. If the tank out puts any healing or if there is a druid, the defender could be sustained indefinately. Making it instumental in raid encounters that use any kind of a tank as it will be a almost constant 50% damage reduction.

The damage to the iDefender should be coming from the buff itself, not the NPC directly, so I’ll be very surprised if iDefender actually takes any less damage that way.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Kaamau.5341:

This could be really really interesting for I-defender, if you set it on a raid boss, have some one come in to tank it, the the defender will only take 5% of 50% of the tanks damage, unless it some how still takes the full hit. If the tank out puts any healing or if there is a druid, the defender could be sustained indefinately. Making it instumental in raid encounters that use any kind of a tank as it will be a almost constant 50% damage reduction.

The damage to the iDefender should be coming from the buff itself, not the NPC directly, so I’ll be very surprised if iDefender actually takes any less damage that way.

Yeah, agreed with your interpretation. Creature attacks against minions have their damage reduced, but the iDefender buff is not a creature attack against a minion.

Worth testing out when the change hits live, though, just in case.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Xyonon.3987:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

New Phantasm meta confirmed. Everyone adjust your builds accordingly :P

new? o.ô

Old phantasm meta had to account for phantasm fragility, and also suffered immensely anyway because often you just can’t.
New phantasm meta pops iWarden/iDefender/iAvenger and watches in amazement as it facerubs the boss and stays alive.

yea but it’s still the “phantasm meta” :P

Nothing holding mesmer from being top tier now.

Kaamau.5341:

This could be really really interesting for I-defender, if you set it on a raid boss, have some one come in to tank it, the the defender will only take 5% of 50% of the tanks damage, unless it some how still takes the full hit. If the tank out puts any healing or if there is a druid, the defender could be sustained indefinately. Making it instumental in raid encounters that use any kind of a tank as it will be a almost constant 50% damage reduction.

The question becomes, is the damage considered applied to a player when it splits? if so, the defender takes full damage. Does it consider the damage applied to itself? then it takes 5%.

It really depends on how they coded it… and how they INTENDED to code it, which are two different things.

Actually, I think this is an important question, and it also applies to the bulwark Gyro. I’m going to post the question in that main thread.

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Nothing holding mesmer from being top tier now.

You mean, besides the fact that even with full phantasm uptime, mesmers don’t do top tier dps?

tobascodagama.2961:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Kaamau.5341:

This could be really really interesting for I-defender, if you set it on a raid boss, have some one come in to tank it, the the defender will only take 5% of 50% of the tanks damage, unless it some how still takes the full hit. If the tank out puts any healing or if there is a druid, the defender could be sustained indefinately. Making it instumental in raid encounters that use any kind of a tank as it will be a almost constant 50% damage reduction.

The damage to the iDefender should be coming from the buff itself, not the NPC directly, so I’ll be very surprised if iDefender actually takes any less damage that way.

Yeah, agreed with your interpretation. Creature attacks against minions have their damage reduced, but the iDefender buff is not a creature attack against a minion.

Worth testing out when the change hits live, though, just in case.

Yeah but mobs take damage from retal the defender has when they hit the player, suggesting that there is a connection of some kind.

Kaamau.5341:

tobascodagama.2961:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Kaamau.5341:

This could be really really interesting for I-defender, if you set it on a raid boss, have some one come in to tank it, the the defender will only take 5% of 50% of the tanks damage, unless it some how still takes the full hit. If the tank out puts any healing or if there is a druid, the defender could be sustained indefinately. Making it instumental in raid encounters that use any kind of a tank as it will be a almost constant 50% damage reduction.

The damage to the iDefender should be coming from the buff itself, not the NPC directly, so I’ll be very surprised if iDefender actually takes any less damage that way.

Yeah, agreed with your interpretation. Creature attacks against minions have their damage reduced, but the iDefender buff is not a creature attack against a minion.

Worth testing out when the change hits live, though, just in case.

Yeah but mobs take damage from retal the defender has when they hit the player, suggesting that there is a connection of some kind.

This is…actually a very very good point.

Alpha, please do your math thing and see how 3x iDefenders compare in Alacrity uptime compared to shatter spam, pretty pls? ;p

I’m counting 2s alacrity application every 8 seconds without phantasmal haste. That’s 6 alacrity every 8 seconds at 3 phantasms.

But in that calculation I’m not figuring out the delay in delivery from the attack animations themselves, so it’s probably less than 6/8 seconds, and with illusions’ Phantasmal Haste it should mitigate that delay reasonably enough.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Nothing holding mesmer from being top tier now.

You mean, besides the fact that even with full phantasm uptime, mesmers don’t do top tier dps?

3 phantasm mesmer is still OK damage. Anyhow chrono will be top tier so we don’t really have to worry.

Zenith.7301:

Alpha, please do your math thing and see how 3x iDefenders compare in Alacrity uptime compared to shatter spam, pretty pls? ;p

I’m counting 2s alacrity application every 8 seconds without phantasmal haste. That’s 6 alacrity every 8 seconds at 3 phantasms.

With Improved Alacrity that would be 9s, which would be 100% uptime if the Avengers rotation were actually 8s.

However,

But in that calculation I’m not figuring out the delay in delivery from the attack animations themselves, so it’s probably less than 6/8 seconds, and with illusions’ Phantasmal Haste it should mitigate that delay reasonably enough.

There is no way to math this. We’re just going to have to do real-world time testing on iAvenger attack cycles a la frifox.
Worse, because iAvenger is melee, any mobile target is going to lengthen the cycle by however long it takes the little kitten to get to the target and make the attack.

Additionally, even if the iAvenger isn’t affected by the aoe/cleave surrounding the boss, you definitely still will be. That melee zone can be pretty brutal.

Edit: seriously, erp with a d is censored. You’re really stretching it, Anet.

I would actually prefer it to be intentional that the Idefender only takes that 5% unless explicitly directly attacked. It would be an excellent deterant in all situations, forcing enemies to attack the idefender directly or contend with a 50% damage reduction.

Hell i’d accept a 30% damage reduction if they felt it was too overpowered this way.

Wow, so my least probable prediction actually came mostly true. Will make a huge difference to PvE Mesmer play. Great change.

squealing like a little girl Hooray!!! Now I have to choose which phantasm to bring. Love this!

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Still useless in WvW, but a step forward is still a step forward, right?

WvW mesmers still have veil and portal! \o/

/sad

Well, mesmers and rangers are all throwing a party and doing their happy dances now.

Alacrity build for lazy people: Summon 3 iAvengers and spam wells.

apharma.3741:

Well, mesmers and rangers are all throwing a party and doing their happy dances now.

Alacrity build for lazy people: Summon 3 iAvengers and spam wells.

Compare to mesmer and rangers, minion mancer got the best deal. They will probably never have to dodge with minions and “Rise”. If tank is a needed role in raid then MM will fill that role perfectly haha.

Looking forward to how this will help Chronomancer ease into using Continuum Shift/Split and reduce the dependency on Chronophasma.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

This change reduces duration of conditions applied by 95% and the amount of direct damage by 95%.

For general mob spawn

• They target Phants anyway, and in overwhelming numbers this wont be good for the mobs. In crowded scenarios, friendlies will kill the mobs, ending the phants life -_-u

For Big Bosses

• Don’t these guys hit for a billion damage quite frequently? So like, one hit at -95% damage reduction is still going to be nine hundred and fifty million damage. I don’t know if a phant can survive that much dps -_-u

Where these damage reduction effects would really prove worthy? WvW, PvP. But yeah, cool, at least its a step in the right direction for PvE.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Xyonon.3987:

Illusions included? _ plssayyes plssayyes plssayyes!!!

Yes. all player minions, all of them.

oh. my. god. my phantasmal avengers will survive?

oh. my. god.

This changes… everything~!

Ross Biddle.2367:

For general mob spawn

• They target Phants anyway, and in overwhelming numbers this wont be good for the mobs. In crowded scenarios, friendlies will kill the mobs, ending the phants life -_-u

For Big Bosses

• Don’t these guys hit for a billion damage quite frequently? So like, one hit at -95% damage reduction is still going to be nine hundred and fifty million damage. I don’t know if a phant can survive that much dps -_-u

Where these damage reduction effects would really prove worthy? WvW, PvP. But yeah, cool, at least its a step in the right direction for PvE.

Some bearbow math:

5% damage taken = 20x increase in ehp.

Phantasm PvE hp is 5800. 20x that is 116,000.

Bosses hit hard, they don’t hit THAT hard.

Fay.2357:

Ross Biddle.2367:

For general mob spawn

• They target Phants anyway, and in overwhelming numbers this wont be good for the mobs. In crowded scenarios, friendlies will kill the mobs, ending the phants life -_-u

For Big Bosses

• Don’t these guys hit for a billion damage quite frequently? So like, one hit at -95% damage reduction is still going to be nine hundred and fifty million damage. I don’t know if a phant can survive that much dps -_-u

Where these damage reduction effects would really prove worthy? WvW, PvP. But yeah, cool, at least its a step in the right direction for PvE.

Some bearbow math:

5% damage taken = 20x increase in ehp.

Phantasm PvE hp is 5800. 20x that is 116,000.

Bosses hit hard, they don’t hit THAT hard.

I came here to say this, but someone beat me to it.

Now I’m not sure whether the best tactic is to shatter + well chrono or phantasm + well chrono.

Fay.2357:

Ross Biddle.2367:

For general mob spawn

• They target Phants anyway, and in overwhelming numbers this wont be good for the mobs. In crowded scenarios, friendlies will kill the mobs, ending the phants life -_-u

For Big Bosses

• Don’t these guys hit for a billion damage quite frequently? So like, one hit at -95% damage reduction is still going to be nine hundred and fifty million damage. I don’t know if a phant can survive that much dps -_-u

Where these damage reduction effects would really prove worthy? WvW, PvP. But yeah, cool, at least its a step in the right direction for PvE.

Some bearbow math:

5% damage taken = 20x increase in ehp.

Phantasm PvE hp is 5800. 20x that is 116,000.

Bosses hit hard, they don’t hit THAT hard.

Could we outheal/outregen the incoming damage?

Ross Biddle.2367:

Fay.2357:

Ross Biddle.2367:

For general mob spawn

• They target Phants anyway, and in overwhelming numbers this wont be good for the mobs. In crowded scenarios, friendlies will kill the mobs, ending the phants life -_-u

For Big Bosses

• Don’t these guys hit for a billion damage quite frequently? So like, one hit at -95% damage reduction is still going to be nine hundred and fifty million damage. I don’t know if a phant can survive that much dps -_-u

Where these damage reduction effects would really prove worthy? WvW, PvP. But yeah, cool, at least its a step in the right direction for PvE.

Some bearbow math:

5% damage taken = 20x increase in ehp.

Phantasm PvE hp is 5800. 20x that is 116,000.

Bosses hit hard, they don’t hit THAT hard.

Could we outheal/outregen the incoming damage?

Absolutely. That’s a very real possibility that you don’t see in an EHP calculation.

If an incoming hit was going to deal 20k, now it only does 1k. That’s easily healable.

Fay.2357:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Fay.2357:

Ross Biddle.2367:

For general mob spawn

• They target Phants anyway, and in overwhelming numbers this wont be good for the mobs. In crowded scenarios, friendlies will kill the mobs, ending the phants life -_-u

For Big Bosses

• Don’t these guys hit for a billion damage quite frequently? So like, one hit at -95% damage reduction is still going to be nine hundred and fifty million damage. I don’t know if a phant can survive that much dps -_-u

Where these damage reduction effects would really prove worthy? WvW, PvP. But yeah, cool, at least its a step in the right direction for PvE.

Some bearbow math:

5% damage taken = 20x increase in ehp.

Phantasm PvE hp is 5800. 20x that is 116,000.

Bosses hit hard, they don’t hit THAT hard.

Could we outheal/outregen the incoming damage?

Absolutely. That’s a very real possibility that you don’t see in an EHP calculation.

If an incoming hit was going to deal 20k, now it only does 1k. That’s easily healable.

So the new 5 phantasm mes/chrono dungeon comp confirmed?

AlphatheWhite.9351:

New Phantasm meta confirmed. Everyone adjust your builds accordingly :P

Implying phantasm was ever not meta for Mesmer in PvE, outside like 2 seconds of Alacrity testing.

So me keeping avengers 100% of the time on Vale Guardian was actually a feature and not a bug.

15 iWarden or 15 iSwordman let’s party!!!

Celeras.4980:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

New Phantasm meta confirmed. Everyone adjust your builds accordingly :P

Implying phantasm was ever not meta for Mesmer in PvE, outside like 2 seconds of Alacrity testing.

As I said above, my point was to imply that there’s a difference between “you’re gonna suck, but phantasms will suck less” and “phantasms are actually nice now”.

Fay.2357:

Some bearbow math:

5% damage taken = 20x increase in ehp.

Phantasm PvE hp is 5800. 20x that is 116,000.

Bosses hit hard, they don’t hit THAT hard.

Clones are 4,171 hp. 4,171 / 0.05 = 83,420 tankable “normal” damage. Now imagine this 83k hp beast in full rabid. I’m drooling just thinking of how much dps uptime that would allow me

Happy for the pve players, this is great news.

Still a problem in large scale wvw though.

Just to confirm some speculation:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Upcoming-Global-Change-to-Player-Minions/5629000

Hey Roy, the question has been floating around about what’s going to happen with creatures that split damage, such as phantasmal defender and bulwark gyro. We haven’t heard anything yet, could you explain to us what happens when those are in play?

The damage transferred works like it normally does, the minion takes a percentage of damage the player would have taken. The change is only from creature attacks against player minions, nothing else is different. I mean, sure, the defender will live longer because it dies to less AOE so it can soak more damage, if that’s what you mean.

Now I wonder what happens to player minion AoE vs. player minions. Like, an enemy phant. berzerker mowing through your illusions. Would that count as player damage (no reduction) or NPC damage (95% reduction) ? x_x

I guess we’ll see.

tetrodoxin.2134:

Now I wonder what happens to player minion AoE vs. player minions. Like, an enemy phant. berzerker mowing through your illusions. Would that count as player damage (no reduction) or NPC damage (95% reduction) ? x_x

I guess we’ll see.

Shows up in a player’s combat log, should be player damage.