Dear Mesmers and future Mirage'

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Posted by: Taltevus.3289

Taltevus.3289

Don’t kid yourselves.

You will not be using that Ambush nonsense for long.
It will be cut just like alacrity was. Don’t believe me? Now would be a great excellent time to revisit the Chronomancer that was advertised and the Chronomancer we have now to estimate what we are going to end up with.
What we can expect is for core Mesmer skills and traits to be culled even more at the range of the new Spec. Mirage.

This is applicable to all classes, I only main Mesmer though…so I can only speak for it.
The culling of Mirage skills and traits that WILL happen is not due to any other class or player objecting. This is deliberately set up this way.

Don’t be ridiculous, it’s just showcasing to try and get the low-skill power hungry to buy immediately so they can’t back out later when the cull begins.

Do you seriously believe that Elite Spec’s Mechanics are going to fly? Seriously ask yourselves.
Why would the balance team literally halve Illusionary Reversion, halve Persistence of Memory, halve Alacrity?

Only to give a new spec…the same insane results the first iteration of the chonomancer had but with ’roid rage 3.0?

It’s a carrot on a stick, don’t be fooled and hush up them tears. No other customer/player is doing this to you.

You know how they say…the bigger the lie the more likely they are to believe it.

Sorry, in post for vaguely referencing (not comparing anyone to) Adolph H. :/

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Posted by: Levetty.1279

Levetty.1279

At least Chrono looked good when it released.

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Posted by: apharma.3741

apharma.3741

I think I’ll wait till we actually get to play it before making a judgement, however atm it seems able to spike condi pretty hard which will likely draw a lot of hate with DE.

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Posted by: Cyninja.2954

Cyninja.2954

Because high burst out of stealth has never been an issue in MMOs which draws a lot of hate from players.

I predict they will gut us like a dead fish the moment Mirage hits spvp and wvw.

At least there is some hope that with skill splitting pve might not be affected to hard.

We shall see.

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Posted by: Curunen.8729

Curunen.8729

Well I still enjoy chrono even after all the nerfs, even if sometimes the shatter spam gets a bit boring.

So if mirage is at least as good as chrono is right now after it gets nerfed then I’ll enjoy it.

pvp and wvw players are going to whine like hell though – going to be so much salt next weekend which will lead to the gutting of traits/skills.

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Posted by: Levetty.1279

Levetty.1279

Because high burst out of stealth has never been an issue in MMOs which draws a lot of hate from players.

I predict they will gut us like a dead fish the moment Mirage hits spvp and wvw.

At least there is some hope that with skill splitting pve might not be affected to hard.

We shall see.

So far all they have used the skill splits for is to buff skills that need help in PvE in PvP.

(edited by Levetty.1279)

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Posted by: Doam.8305

Doam.8305

Mirage spreads way to much Torment and Confusion the two worse conditions for PVE. It seems to be great for pvp but you have to do PVE to unlock anything these days and raid groups aren’t really looking for someone to spread Torment. So Chronomancer will remain in demand and if it somehow gets toppled by a new elite then the Mesmer is pretty much sunk in PVE.

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Posted by: Azukas.1426

Azukas.1426

This elite is beyond OP.

This is the PU phantasm mesmer elevated to God Status and is exactly what I feared we’d be getting.

This needs to be nerfed well before release.

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

This elite is beyond OP.

This is the PU phantasm mesmer elevated to God Status and is exactly what I feared we’d be getting.

This needs to be nerfed well before release.

Never change Azukas, I don’t know where we’d be without you.

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Posted by: Azukas.1426

Azukas.1426

This elite is beyond OP.

This is the PU phantasm mesmer elevated to God Status and is exactly what I feared we’d be getting.

This needs to be nerfed well before release.

Never change Azukas, I don’t know where we’d be without you.

Back in the beginning of HoT where Chrono was broken and required no skill?

Today condi chrono is a nice build that requires skill to play. It’s strong as kitten too.

I’m ok with that though b/c of the skill required to maximize it’s potential.

Clones that stack 30 bleeds, 10 torment, 10 confusion, etc. by you just dodging…..that kitten is broken. Even Wooden Potatoes said it felt EXTREMELY over tuned. He’s a PvE freak….

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

This elite is beyond OP.

This is the PU phantasm mesmer elevated to God Status and is exactly what I feared we’d be getting.

This needs to be nerfed well before release.

Never change Azukas, I don’t know where we’d be without you.

Back in the beginning of HoT where Chrono was broken and required no skill?

Today condi chrono is a nice build that requires skill to play. It’s strong as kitten too.

I’m ok with that though b/c of the skill required to maximize it’s potential.

Clones that stack 30 bleeds, 10 torment, 10 confusion, etc. by you just dodging…..that kitten is broken. Even Wooden Potatoes said it felt EXTREMELY over tuned. He’s a PvE freak….

I love me some target golem DPS arguments. Yes indeedy. Wooden potatoes is an excellent source for lore in GW2. He should stick to that.

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Posted by: Levetty.1279

Levetty.1279

Even Wooden Potatoes said it felt EXTREMELY over tuned. He’s a PvE freak….

No, he actually said a 2400 damaging unload with lots of build up required is EXTREMELY over tuned. That is how much he knows about the game.

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Posted by: FJSAMA.2867

FJSAMA.2867

Here we go again with Op claims. Ignorance based claims.
To cut it short most of the ppl making this comments are just baddies annoyed or killed in pvp by a Pink character with illusions which they cannot differ from the real mesmer and with condies that counter smash keyboard faceroll playstyle. The same ppl that spams 1 when facing thief eating Pi left and right and then goes to forum.
Mesmer have the least stealth between engie and thief.

Everyone looses their minds when smthg apperently good appears on mesmer, but they refuse to acknowledge its major flaws. This ambush only happens after a dodge for 1s window. Mirage can only redirect axe clones, the rest still target bound. Phantasms replace clones. Shatters delete both and both can be easly killed. Mesmer still so much dependent on them.
I wanna see how slow mirage will feel, how bad will be to shatter at distance, how empty and pityfull will be a mesmer after a shatter how awfull cooldowns will be ( since all base mesmer CDs and CDS trait were nerfed accounting alacrity) and i rly hope mirage elite to be smthg good and short CD. In the lvl of a headbutt. Cause we are stuck with long CDS and low impact overtime elites in base mesmer. One can dream of portal being made an elite. At least we could add and additional utility.

Mirage seems the least powerfull elite spec from expac2. And core mesmer still way under other cores. This in combination to the fact that haters will hate, mirage strong points will be nerfed and it will be cornered before its released.

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Posted by: FJSAMA.2867

FJSAMA.2867

This elite is beyond OP.

This is the PU phantasm mesmer elevated to God Status and is exactly what I feared we’d be getting.

This needs to be nerfed well before release.

Never change Azukas, I don’t know where we’d be without you.

Back in the beginning of HoT where Chrono was broken and required no skill?

Today condi chrono is a nice build that requires skill to play. It’s strong as kitten too.

I’m ok with that though b/c of the skill required to maximize it’s potential.

Clones that stack 30 bleeds, 10 torment, 10 confusion, etc. by you just dodging…..that kitten is broken. Even Wooden Potatoes said it felt EXTREMELY over tuned. He’s a PvE freak….

Just remember:
Clones are a dumb AI.
You have to have a trait and waste dodges to do that inside a 1s time window
Clones die in 2 hits and just hurt you via condi
And most important, mirage doesnt have:
Chronophantasma
Alacrity
Shield defensive and clone generation ability
Superspeed clones
F5
Passive speed
Heal well.
Think of a mesmer like that, add what you saw and disregard biased golem benchmarks ( we all know pve bencharks will make mesmer look even worse than what it is in pvp) compare to others and evaluate again if it is op or not. At least try it in live.

(edited by FJSAMA.2867)

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Posted by: Curunen.8729

Curunen.8729

Yeah the small things like longer cooldowns all around due to no alacrity, old problems of shattering at distance and slow illusions, no permanent movement speed bonus, no F5 to double up skills, no Chronophantasma, no ability to dodge-jump or move dodge in general (kiting could be more difficult)… that’s a lot of tradeoff.

Also unlike Chrono where you can easily ignore Shield and use any other weapon, I struggle to visualise Mirage working efficiently without Axe given that retargeting skill and mid/close range damage.

I’m still looking forward to it because thematically it is what I want from mesmer, but it’s a struggle to give up all those good bandaid fixes that Chrono provides.

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Posted by: Alveen.7239

Alveen.7239

Here we go again with Op claims. Ignorance based claims.
To cut it short most of the ppl making this comments are just baddies annoyed or killed in pvp by a Pink character with illusions which they cannot differ from the real mesmer and with condies that counter smash keyboard faceroll playstyle. The same ppl that spams 1 when facing thief eating Pi left and right and then goes to forum.
Mesmer have the least stealth between engie and thief.

Everyone looses their minds when smthg apperently good appears on mesmer, but they refuse to acknowledge its major flaws. This ambush only happens after a dodge for 1s window. Mirage can only redirect axe clones, the rest still target bound. Phantasms replace clones. Shatters delete both and both can be easly killed. Mesmer still so much dependent on them.
I wanna see how slow mirage will feel, how bad will be to shatter at distance, how empty and pityfull will be a mesmer after a shatter how awfull cooldowns will be ( since all base mesmer CDs and CDS trait were nerfed accounting alacrity) and i rly hope mirage elite to be smthg good and short CD. In the lvl of a headbutt. Cause we are stuck with long CDS and low impact overtime elites in base mesmer. One can dream of portal being made an elite. At least we could add and additional utility.

Mirage seems the least powerfull elite spec from expac2. And core mesmer still way under other cores. This in combination to the fact that haters will hate, mirage strong points will be nerfed and it will be cornered before its released.

I main mesmer and I think it’s way overboard. Even the current condi mesmer meta spec is op, This is like god mode lol

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Posted by: Levetty.1279

Levetty.1279

Now you are getting it.

Now justify the spec, because having to set up clones and waste dodges to build a comparable amount of condis up that base Rev can aoe spam with better defence and actual damage modifiers isn’t cutting it.

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Posted by: FJSAMA.2867

FJSAMA.2867

I main mesmer and I think it’s way overboard. Even the current condi mesmer meta spec is op, This is like god mode lol

Current meta spec utilizes chrono. Chrono doesnt add with mirage. They are exclusive.
Try again.
Here we go with the legendary 6/6/6/6 build. Now with one more 6, the mirage.

(edited by FJSAMA.2867)

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Posted by: Azukas.1426

Azukas.1426

This elite is beyond OP.

This is the PU phantasm mesmer elevated to God Status and is exactly what I feared we’d be getting.

This needs to be nerfed well before release.

Never change Azukas, I don’t know where we’d be without you.

Back in the beginning of HoT where Chrono was broken and required no skill?

Today condi chrono is a nice build that requires skill to play. It’s strong as kitten too.

I’m ok with that though b/c of the skill required to maximize it’s potential.

Clones that stack 30 bleeds, 10 torment, 10 confusion, etc. by you just dodging…..that kitten is broken. Even Wooden Potatoes said it felt EXTREMELY over tuned. He’s a PvE freak….

Just remember:
Clones are a dumb AI.
You have to have a trait and waste dodges to do that inside a 1s time window
Clones die in 2 hits and just hurt you via condi
And most important, mirage doesnt have:
Chronophantasma
Alacrity
Shield defensive and clone generation ability
Superspeed clones
F5
Passive speed
Heal well.
Think of a mesmer like that, add what you saw and disregard biased golem benchmarks ( we all know pve bencharks will make mesmer look even worse than what it is in pvp) compare to others and evaluate again if it is op or not. At least try it in live.

You forget you are kittenting clones out with ease and actually shattering them resets the whole kittening kitten show.

This is braindead AI gameplay at its most OP level. Turret Engie, Phantasm Mesmer, Petting Zoo Ranger, and MM Necro all pale in comparison to what we are about to see from this elite spec.

You wrecking people by dodging. No skill activation needed. Just dodge. Focus on staying alive and dodge….new meta

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Posted by: Levetty.1279

Levetty.1279

You wrecking people by dodging. No skill activation needed.

Wait which is it?

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Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

Because high burst out of stealth has never been an issue in MMOs which draws a lot of hate from players.

I predict they will gut us like a dead fish the moment Mirage hits spvp and wvw.

At least there is some hope that with skill splitting pve might not be affected to hard.

We shall see.

Our one saving grace is that thief got an even more ridiculous elite with its kittening deadeye rifle. So people will kitten and whine about that too instead of only focusing on mesmer.

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Posted by: FJSAMA.2867

FJSAMA.2867

This elite is beyond OP.

This is the PU phantasm mesmer elevated to God Status and is exactly what I feared we’d be getting.

This needs to be nerfed well before release.

Never change Azukas, I don’t know where we’d be without you.

Back in the beginning of HoT where Chrono was broken and required no skill?

Today condi chrono is a nice build that requires skill to play. It’s strong as kitten too.

I’m ok with that though b/c of the skill required to maximize it’s potential.

Clones that stack 30 bleeds, 10 torment, 10 confusion, etc. by you just dodging…..that kitten is broken. Even Wooden Potatoes said it felt EXTREMELY over tuned. He’s a PvE freak….

Just remember:
Clones are a dumb AI.
You have to have a trait and waste dodges to do that inside a 1s time window
Clones die in 2 hits and just hurt you via condi
And most important, mirage doesnt have:
Chronophantasma
Alacrity
Shield defensive and clone generation ability
Superspeed clones
F5
Passive speed
Heal well.
Think of a mesmer like that, add what you saw and disregard biased golem benchmarks ( we all know pve bencharks will make mesmer look even worse than what it is in pvp) compare to others and evaluate again if it is op or not. At least try it in live.

You forget you are kittenting clones out with ease and actually shattering them resets the whole kittening kitten show.

This is braindead AI gameplay at its most OP level. Turret Engie, Phantasm Mesmer, Petting Zoo Ranger, and MM Necro all pale in comparison to what we are about to see from this elite spec.

You wrecking people by dodging. No skill activation needed. Just dodge. Focus on staying alive and dodge….new meta

Do you even chrono?
You forget shield + CP + Ir are the biggest part of chrono clone generation. Alacrity is gone f5 too, no more shatering produces alacrity for lower cds and fuel chaos phantasms trait. Shatering will delete all illusions. It wont reset anything nor fuel any CD.

Everyone is adding mirage to chrono meta build. Have you forget how vanilla mesmer is? Remember power shatter? Ye that one worst version of power chrono. Now place it in this evolved meta. Ye…..

(edited by FJSAMA.2867)

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Posted by: Taltevus.3289

Taltevus.3289

I think I’ll wait till we actually get to play it before making a judgement, however atm it seems able to spike condi pretty hard which will likely draw a lot of hate with DE.

I too am going to wait. I am most certain every class is about to get the skill/trait culling of a lifetime and people are going to cross blame but after looking at the systemic declawing of each T1 specialization from HoT. I have no reason to 1. fork up my money for a class that won’t be ‘round 2 believe it won’t happen here by some way of magic.

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Posted by: Taltevus.3289

Taltevus.3289

Because high burst out of stealth has never been an issue in MMOs which draws a lot of hate from players.

I predict they will gut us like a dead fish the moment Mirage hits spvp and wvw.

At least there is some hope that with skill splitting pve might not be affected to hard.

We shall see.

I am not discussing burst from stealth though.
I am talking about:

Revolving→ Bleed, Torment, Burn, Confusion and Vulnerability
Underneath→ Blind, Cripple, Immobilize, Weakness, Poison and Chill.

And you seriously think other classes measly condi cleanse is going to mitigate that?
Cleanse one condition when you dodge. Yeah, ok…thanks. Lmfao.
remove a condition when you swap a weapon, weee. r_r’
remove 1 every ten seconds. My door turns much slower. -_-’

How about 15 seconds of resistance locked under a revolving door of every boon in the game -1.

You would need (the original) Diamond Skin Ele to hard counter this.
Don’t forget…that mirage cloak applies to your clones as well.

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Posted by: Ithilwen.1529

Ithilwen.1529

I predict that Mirage will be ultra nerfed. The howling that this spec will produce is entirely predictable.

Before long, any new mechanic will be given to another class/classes. That’s why I’m not buying in advance, even though I’d dearly like to. I’ll wait and see how bloody the first couple rounds of nerfs are.

Mesmerising Girl

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Posted by: Taltevus.3289

Taltevus.3289

Here we go again with Op claims. Ignorance based claims.
To cut it short most of the ppl making this comments are just baddies annoyed or killed in pvp by a Pink character with illusions which they cannot differ from the real mesmer and with condies that counter smash keyboard faceroll playstyle. The same ppl that spams 1 when facing thief eating Pi left and right and then goes to forum.
Mesmer have the least stealth between engie and thief.

Everyone looses their minds when smthg apperently good appears on mesmer, but they refuse to acknowledge its major flaws. This ambush only happens after a dodge for 1s window. Mirage can only redirect axe clones, the rest still target bound. Phantasms replace clones. Shatters delete both and both can be easly killed. Mesmer still so much dependent on them.
I wanna see how slow mirage will feel, how bad will be to shatter at distance, how empty and pityfull will be a mesmer after a shatter how awfull cooldowns will be ( since all base mesmer CDs and CDS trait were nerfed accounting alacrity) and i rly hope mirage elite to be smthg good and short CD. In the lvl of a headbutt. Cause we are stuck with long CDS and low impact overtime elites in base mesmer. One can dream of portal being made an elite. At least we could add and additional utility.

Mirage seems the least powerfull elite spec from expac2. And core mesmer still way under other cores. This in combination to the fact that haters will hate, mirage strong points will be nerfed and it will be cornered before its released.

Uhm…no I’ve read every comment so far…and most of them seem to see the problem from an obvious PVP standpoint.

No, there is nothing good about this…not one iota of good can come from giving Mesmer more ways to just spread unilateral damage. I am pretty sure clones are going to get buffed…let’s not pretend that hasn’t or isn’t going to happen.

The conditions from Clones should be a percentage useless fraction of condition damage.
While phantasms should have really done the heavy lifting.
If you want to compare them as if they were equal…that would need to be the case OR my clones should do the full range of my (physical) damage and NOT 0~50 damage unlike the condition damage delivered by clones do. This is but 1 solution that COULD have been implemented but wasn’t and won’t be. Point is don’t compare the nuances of builds as though there is no difference between them.

Unfortunately all the stuff you are wondering about is irrelevant…you ought not be doing that kind of damage and daydreaming, and that’s the point. While the Mirage is faffing about with revolving conditions…what do you really think you are going to do in the face of that?

Why do you suggest Mesmer condition application is 1 shot and it’s over when it’s not?
Like we only have 1 shatter, and Signets aren’t the meta now…when I very plainly remember them explicitly not being so.

This would be not a problem if condition clearing was not 100% dysfunctional
Instead of fixing that and then designing the Mirage on top…it seems they just…kept pushing Mesmer to hinge on broken mechanics of the game.

Going even further you dodge to to attack…
If ever see a Mirage sass a condi Theif…

Like they are any different. Stealth, dodge to attack, apply conditions repeat.

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Posted by: Azukas.1426

Azukas.1426

This elite is beyond OP.

This is the PU phantasm mesmer elevated to God Status and is exactly what I feared we’d be getting.

This needs to be nerfed well before release.

Never change Azukas, I don’t know where we’d be without you.

Back in the beginning of HoT where Chrono was broken and required no skill?

Today condi chrono is a nice build that requires skill to play. It’s strong as kitten too.

I’m ok with that though b/c of the skill required to maximize it’s potential.

Clones that stack 30 bleeds, 10 torment, 10 confusion, etc. by you just dodging…..that kitten is broken. Even Wooden Potatoes said it felt EXTREMELY over tuned. He’s a PvE freak….

Just remember:
Clones are a dumb AI.
You have to have a trait and waste dodges to do that inside a 1s time window
Clones die in 2 hits and just hurt you via condi
And most important, mirage doesnt have:
Chronophantasma
Alacrity
Shield defensive and clone generation ability
Superspeed clones
F5
Passive speed
Heal well.
Think of a mesmer like that, add what you saw and disregard biased golem benchmarks ( we all know pve bencharks will make mesmer look even worse than what it is in pvp) compare to others and evaluate again if it is op or not. At least try it in live.

You forget you are kittenting clones out with ease and actually shattering them resets the whole kittening kitten show.

This is braindead AI gameplay at its most OP level. Turret Engie, Phantasm Mesmer, Petting Zoo Ranger, and MM Necro all pale in comparison to what we are about to see from this elite spec.

You wrecking people by dodging. No skill activation needed. Just dodge. Focus on staying alive and dodge….new meta

Do you even chrono?
You forget shield + CP + Ir are the biggest part of chrono clone generation. Alacrity is gone f5 too, no more shatering produces alacrity for lower cds and fuel chaos phantasms trait. Shatering will delete all illusions. It wont reset anything nor fuel any CD.

Everyone is adding mirage to chrono meta build. Have you forget how vanilla mesmer is? Remember power shatter? Ye that one worst version of power chrono. Now place it in this evolved meta. Ye…..

This makes condi chrono look weak in comparison. This spec is the be all end all of brain dead AI specs just to appease the PvE “WE GOT NO DEEPS” crowd.

This isn’t going to end well.

p.s. we haven’t seen a power variant either….

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Posted by: Taltevus.3289

Taltevus.3289

This elite is beyond OP.

This is the PU phantasm mesmer elevated to God Status and is exactly what I feared we’d be getting.

This needs to be nerfed well before release.

Never change Azukas, I don’t know where we’d be without you.

Back in the beginning of HoT where Chrono was broken and required no skill?

Today condi chrono is a nice build that requires skill to play. It’s strong as kitten too.

I’m ok with that though b/c of the skill required to maximize it’s potential.

Clones that stack 30 bleeds, 10 torment, 10 confusion, etc. by you just dodging…..that kitten is broken. Even Wooden Potatoes said it felt EXTREMELY over tuned. He’s a PvE freak….

Just remember:
Clones are a dumb AI.
You have to have a trait and waste dodges to do that inside a 1s time window
Clones die in 2 hits and just hurt you via condi
And most important, mirage doesnt have:
Chronophantasma
Alacrity
Shield defensive and clone generation ability
Superspeed clones
F5
Passive speed
Heal well.
Think of a mesmer like that, add what you saw and disregard biased golem benchmarks ( we all know pve bencharks will make mesmer look even worse than what it is in pvp) compare to others and evaluate again if it is op or not. At least try it in live.

Clones don’t need to be smart they just need to sit there and auto attack while doing the full range of your condition damage.

Waste doges? Do you not realize how useless a condition cleanse is in the face of this?

AGAIN Chronophantasma is not needed. Stop pretending like Signet of the Ether and Signet of Illusions are NOT a thing.

I’d hate to give this secret up but Staff 5 is an excellent and better as a defensive weapon than the shield. Most don’t know it…and only it seems very few of power mesmers realize exactly how often that Aegis comes up. The shield is not used for defense it’s just shatter fodder…like seriously mesmers just spam it…to get the second phantasm….they chase you with it…Every last one of them.

No cones don’t have super speed clones just super-speed condition application.

Stop playing coy like this is not grossly over designed and gives too much condition output and utilization. :/

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Posted by: Taltevus.3289

Taltevus.3289

This elite is beyond OP.

This is the PU phantasm mesmer elevated to God Status and is exactly what I feared we’d be getting.

This needs to be nerfed well before release.

Never change Azukas, I don’t know where we’d be without you.

Back in the beginning of HoT where Chrono was broken and required no skill?

Today condi chrono is a nice build that requires skill to play. It’s strong as kitten too.

I’m ok with that though b/c of the skill required to maximize it’s potential.

Clones that stack 30 bleeds, 10 torment, 10 confusion, etc. by you just dodging…..that kitten is broken. Even Wooden Potatoes said it felt EXTREMELY over tuned. He’s a PvE freak….

Just remember:
Clones are a dumb AI.
You have to have a trait and waste dodges to do that inside a 1s time window
Clones die in 2 hits and just hurt you via condi
And most important, mirage doesnt have:
Chronophantasma
Alacrity
Shield defensive and clone generation ability
Superspeed clones
F5
Passive speed
Heal well.
Think of a mesmer like that, add what you saw and disregard biased golem benchmarks ( we all know pve bencharks will make mesmer look even worse than what it is in pvp) compare to others and evaluate again if it is op or not. At least try it in live.

You forget you are kittenting clones out with ease and actually shattering them resets the whole kittening kitten show.

This is braindead AI gameplay at its most OP level. Turret Engie, Phantasm Mesmer, Petting Zoo Ranger, and MM Necro all pale in comparison to what we are about to see from this elite spec.

You wrecking people by dodging. No skill activation needed. Just dodge. Focus on staying alive and dodge….new meta

Do you even chrono?
You forget shield + CP + Ir are the biggest part of chrono clone generation. Alacrity is gone f5 too, no more shatering produces alacrity for lower cds and fuel chaos phantasms trait. Shatering will delete all illusions. It wont reset anything nor fuel any CD.

Everyone is adding mirage to chrono meta build. Have you forget how vanilla mesmer is? Remember power shatter? Ye that one worst version of power chrono. Now place it in this evolved meta. Ye…..

Do you even Mes? I’ve toed up with a Core mes that has a beautiful shatter cadence I thought he was Chrono but he was not. always had 3 phantasms up I’ve dipped back into core mes when I am frustrated and bored…the cool downs aren’t really that much more…lessened.
Unless you 2134567890edrftgyhjk and then expect to win a fight; not even chrono can mitigate that kind of misuse.

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Posted by: Kadj.6725

Kadj.6725

I’m so glad that we’ll be married to the Dueling line again, I feel like that was the greatest loss to our profession when HoT came out-

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Posted by: MailMail.6534

MailMail.6534

I’m excited for the nerfed version of this build, because it’ll make a burst condi spec actually playable.

The dodge is literally your only survivability. Adding Inspiration means you can only take one of Dueling or Illusions. We’ll see how that works…

https://www.twitch.tv/thatcho
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”

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Posted by: apharma.3741

apharma.3741

This elite is beyond OP.

This is the PU phantasm mesmer elevated to God Status and is exactly what I feared we’d be getting.

This needs to be nerfed well before release.

Never change Azukas, I don’t know where we’d be without you.

Back in the beginning of HoT where Chrono was broken and required no skill?

Today condi chrono is a nice build that requires skill to play. It’s strong as kitten too.

I’m ok with that though b/c of the skill required to maximize it’s potential.

Clones that stack 30 bleeds, 10 torment, 10 confusion, etc. by you just dodging…..that kitten is broken. Even Wooden Potatoes said it felt EXTREMELY over tuned. He’s a PvE freak….

If by strong as kitten you mean can no longer win any 1v1 and the entire meta now revolves around waiting for thief to +1 then yes, it’s hella strong. I mean sure it’s still pretty OK in WvW where trailblazer stats are and when pretty much running PU with torch but it’s usually super weak to condi.

As I say, I’m going to wait to actually play this before I make too many judgements on what is OP, I would suggest you do the same as it feels like you haven’t played core Mesmer in anything competitive for a while. Clones literally instantly die, heck I’ve had ileap ruined most of the time by morons just auto attacking to try and hit me when I’m clearly not in range.

This will probably be a condition damage PvE elite spec and it will not be very good in PvP/WvW outside of 1v1s due to how reliant it is on clones with 5k health.

Edit: For reference it isn’t me saying that about chrono, it’s Helseth, you can even see it on Sindreners streams with Mischa only stalling 1v1s without moa. Even then he’s usually waiting for Sind for that moa kill.

(edited by apharma.3741)

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Posted by: Hot Boy.7138

Hot Boy.7138

This elite is beyond OP.

This is the PU phantasm mesmer elevated to God Status and is exactly what I feared we’d be getting.

This needs to be nerfed well before release.

Never change Azukas, I don’t know where we’d be without you.

Back in the beginning of HoT where Chrono was broken and required no skill?

Today condi chrono is a nice build that requires skill to play. It’s strong as kitten too.

I’m ok with that though b/c of the skill required to maximize it’s potential.

Clones that stack 30 bleeds, 10 torment, 10 confusion, etc. by you just dodging…..that kitten is broken. Even Wooden Potatoes said it felt EXTREMELY over tuned. He’s a PvE freak….

Just remember:
Clones are a dumb AI.
You have to have a trait and waste dodges to do that inside a 1s time window
Clones die in 2 hits and just hurt you via condi
And most important, mirage doesnt have:
Chronophantasma
Alacrity
Shield defensive and clone generation ability
Superspeed clones
F5
Passive speed
Heal well.
Think of a mesmer like that, add what you saw and disregard biased golem benchmarks ( we all know pve bencharks will make mesmer look even worse than what it is in pvp) compare to others and evaluate again if it is op or not. At least try it in live.

You forget you are kittenting clones out with ease and actually shattering them resets the whole kittening kitten show.

This is braindead AI gameplay at its most OP level. Turret Engie, Phantasm Mesmer, Petting Zoo Ranger, and MM Necro all pale in comparison to what we are about to see from this elite spec.

You wrecking people by dodging. No skill activation needed. Just dodge. Focus on staying alive and dodge….new meta

I agree. I told my friend the same exact thing when i saw this in the after show. I think it’s a braindead condi build for staff and scepter users. And the most OPed and skillless build ever.

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Posted by: apharma.3741

apharma.3741

Do you even Mes? I’ve toed up with a Core mes that has a beautiful shatter cadence I thought he was Chrono but he was not. always had 3 phantasms up I’ve dipped back into core mes when I am frustrated and bored…the cool downs aren’t really that much more…lessened.
Unless you 2134567890edrftgyhjk and then expect to win a fight; not even chrono can mitigate that kind of misuse.

Yes it’s illusions that does much of the cool down reduction which will probably be taken for this elite spec to pair with torch, iCelerity, maim the disillusioned and confusion on shatter. With careful timing I think you should be able to trigger the burst skills then shatter for a big chunk of condi, the real question is if your clones survive.

I’ve been playing Dom, duelling, inspiration Mesmer for a bit and the cool downs are drastically different to chrono with illusions. Even illusions line without chrono you notice a significant increase in cool downs where you’re caught short by a few seconds and shatter fodder is much harder to have too.

Anyway 2 weeks and we’ll have a better idea.

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Posted by: Aylaine.1036

Aylaine.1036

Never thought I would see people complaining about Mesmer getting a much needed DPS spec. The world we live in , heh.

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Posted by: Levetty.1279

Levetty.1279

Never thought I would see people complaining about Mesmer getting a much needed DPS spec. The world we live in , heh.

Its not a kittening DPS spec, thats the problem. Its a kittening gimicky PvP spec thats going to be nerfed into the ground because idiots think only Mirage can apply condis when every other class has a build that can spam condis like this.

Not one single kittening damage orientated trait outside of a condition duration grandmaster. Scourge is a support spec that has a trait that increases torment damage and applies burning, the same trait. How is this a kittening DPS spec?

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Posted by: Vyrulisse.1246

Vyrulisse.1246

It looked real impressive against a stationary target golem and a lot of things do. Until someone actually does the math to go with that golem and puts it into actual gameplay practice we really won’t know.

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Posted by: Cyninja.2954

Cyninja.2954

Because high burst out of stealth has never been an issue in MMOs which draws a lot of hate from players.

I predict they will gut us like a dead fish the moment Mirage hits spvp and wvw.

At least there is some hope that with skill splitting pve might not be affected to hard.

We shall see.

I am not discussing burst from stealth though.
I am talking about:

Revolving-> Bleed, Torment, Burn, Confusion and Vulnerability
Underneath-> Blind, Cripple, Immobilize, Weakness, Poison and Chill.

And you seriously think other classes measly condi cleanse is going to mitigate that?
Cleanse one condition when you dodge. Yeah, ok…thanks. Lmfao.
remove a condition when you swap a weapon, weee. r_r’
remove 1 every ten seconds. My door turns much slower. -_-’

How about 15 seconds of resistance locked under a revolving door of every boon in the game -1.

You would need (the original) Diamond Skin Ele to hard counter this.
Don’t forget…that mirage cloak applies to your clones as well.

Learn to read and comprehend please.

I’m saying exactly that the way the elite is setup right now, it will be way overtuned for pvp and total kitten for pve. Thus we will see the nerf bat within 1-2 weeks after the expanions release tops. Especially because it’s damage coming from stealth which players in MMOs have a very low bar of acceptance for.

Maybe if you spent 2 minutes understanding what I had writen you might have saved yourself some time.

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Posted by: Carighan.6758

Carighan.6758

Do you seriously believe that Elite Spec’s Mechanics are going to fly? Seriously ask yourselves.

Well… considering that there is another class which had this mechanic still launch and had it repeatedly buffed despite having a plethora of engage and escape options even outside of their ambush (and we don’t even get constant stealth), I’d say… yeah?

It’s a very normal thing to have?

I mean look at the skills found in the beta. They’re not that strong. At all.

The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.

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Posted by: Levetty.1279

Levetty.1279

Do you seriously believe that Elite Spec’s Mechanics are going to fly? Seriously ask yourselves.

Well… considering that there is another class which had this mechanic still launch and had it repeatedly buffed despite having a plethora of engage and escape options even outside of their ambush (and we don’t even get constant stealth), I’d say… yeah?

It’s a very normal thing to have?

I mean look at the skills found in the beta. They’re not that strong. At all.

What are you talking about dude, 600 damage unload! 600! You can get that up to 2400 if you build up your clones and waste a dodge! GG Pistol thief and longbow Ranger we the new pew pewers

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Posted by: Trigr.6481

Trigr.6481

This elite is beyond OP.

This is the PU phantasm mesmer elevated to God Status and is exactly what I feared we’d be getting.

This needs to be nerfed well before release.

Never change Azukas, I don’t know where we’d be without you.

Back in the beginning of HoT where Chrono was broken and required no skill?

Today condi chrono is a nice build that requires skill to play. It’s strong as kitten too.

I’m ok with that though b/c of the skill required to maximize it’s potential.

Clones that stack 30 bleeds, 10 torment, 10 confusion, etc. by you just dodging…..that kitten is broken. Even Wooden Potatoes said it felt EXTREMELY over tuned. He’s a PvE freak….

I love me some target golem DPS arguments. Yes indeedy. Wooden potatoes is an excellent source for lore in GW2. He should stick to that.

Indeed, does alout of damage to a target dummy? Lets nerf it to the ground.

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Posted by: Levetty.1279

Levetty.1279

This elite is beyond OP.

This is the PU phantasm mesmer elevated to God Status and is exactly what I feared we’d be getting.

This needs to be nerfed well before release.

Never change Azukas, I don’t know where we’d be without you.

Back in the beginning of HoT where Chrono was broken and required no skill?

Today condi chrono is a nice build that requires skill to play. It’s strong as kitten too.

I’m ok with that though b/c of the skill required to maximize it’s potential.

Clones that stack 30 bleeds, 10 torment, 10 confusion, etc. by you just dodging…..that kitten is broken. Even Wooden Potatoes said it felt EXTREMELY over tuned. He’s a PvE freak….

I love me some target golem DPS arguments. Yes indeedy. Wooden potatoes is an excellent source for lore in GW2. He should stick to that.

Indeed, does alout of damage to a target dummy? Lets nerf it to the ground.

RIP Maim the Disillusioned.

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Posted by: Taltevus.3289

Taltevus.3289

Never thought I would see people complaining about Mesmer getting a much needed DPS spec. The world we live in , heh.

A Condition based DPS Spec. Don’t get it twisted. Yeah the conveniently misinformed world you live in. Heh.

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Posted by: Taltevus.3289

Taltevus.3289

I’m so glad that we’ll be married to the Dueling line again, I feel like that was the greatest loss to our profession when HoT came out-

Well, married I won’t say quite…but, close to it.
I agree Mesmers shattered more in HoT but you see mesmer played more like any other class. Where it’s just him running around…and primarily doing the damage.

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Posted by: Taltevus.3289

Taltevus.3289

I’m excited for the nerfed version of this build, because it’ll make a burst condi spec actually playable.

The dodge is literally your only survivability. Adding Inspiration means you can only take one of Dueling or Illusions. We’ll see how that works…

While in it’s current iteration…I am confident this will be nerfed on the PVP side of things.
However I am hoping it’s going to force people to play the Mechanic and not just let the conditions do the heavy lifting being forced to pic between optimal Condition damage…and survivability. Not conveniently having both.

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Posted by: Taltevus.3289

Taltevus.3289

It looked real impressive against a stationary target golem and a lot of things do. Until someone actually does the math to go with that golem and puts it into actual gameplay practice we really won’t know.

Listen…we know how the condi game works Apply hide and wait.

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Posted by: Taltevus.3289

Taltevus.3289

Because high burst out of stealth has never been an issue in MMOs which draws a lot of hate from players.

I predict they will gut us like a dead fish the moment Mirage hits spvp and wvw.

At least there is some hope that with skill splitting pve might not be affected to hard.

We shall see.

I am not discussing burst from stealth though.
I am talking about:

Revolving-> Bleed, Torment, Burn, Confusion and Vulnerability
Underneath-> Blind, Cripple, Immobilize, Weakness, Poison and Chill.

And you seriously think other classes measly condi cleanse is going to mitigate that?
Cleanse one condition when you dodge. Yeah, ok…thanks. Lmfao.
remove a condition when you swap a weapon, weee. r_r’
remove 1 every ten seconds. My door turns much slower. -_-’

How about 15 seconds of resistance locked under a revolving door of every boon in the game -1.

You would need (the original) Diamond Skin Ele to hard counter this.
Don’t forget…that mirage cloak applies to your clones as well.

Learn to read and comprehend please.

I’m saying exactly that the way the elite is setup right now, it will be way overtuned for pvp and total kitten for pve. Thus we will see the nerf bat within 1-2 weeks after the expanions release tops. Especially because it’s damage coming from stealth which players in MMOs have a very low bar of acceptance for.

Maybe if you spent 2 minutes understanding what I had writen you might have saved yourself some time.

Uhm, I am not making claims as to when but, I for kitten sure know…it’s going to happen and people need to realize that this is the carrot on the stick. It’s the same kitten thing that happened with Chronomancer. Other classes are not going to be the cause of this.

Which is why I said. LOOK AT WHAT WAS ADVERTISED A FINISHED IDEA REGARDING THE CHRONOMANCER!
And look at what we have now.

How do you go from that to this!?

This suggests that Nothing was tested.
PVP was NOT taken into consideration.
WVW was not taken into consideration.
CORE MES was not taken into consideration.

So it’s either a: intentional or b: negligence.
Now that I am seeing the same thing again…Yes, Regis…I am going to lock in a, for $250k, intentional.

No it’s damage does not come from stealth…The damage comes from the mechanic Hiding in plain sight.

If there aren’t 4 mesmers running around the real one is hiding.
UNLESS you only play with 2 clones and yourself at all times. <—No one does this.
OR you turn of that auto attack off and act like a clone with 3 illusions and yourself. <——players do this.

Uh ok. I guess you feel smart….because I was not addressing the made up idea of damage from stealth you concocted…in my OP. So yeah…and I am still…not talking about stealth. Stealth is not the issue.

REVOLVING DOORS OF EVERY CONDITION (minus slow) IN WHICH NO CLASS CAN CURRENTLY EFFECTIVELY CLEANSE IS THE ISSUE AT HAND.

Can you hear me now?
YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO COUNTER PLAY THE CONDI SPEC.

Each time a Mirage Mirror is created it grants Mirage cloak. which passive procs to the clones. WHEN…you run into it or touch it. Remember…
THE CLOAK LETS YOU USE BLUR as dodge. When you dodge you get the cloak, the cloak makes blur. NOT just cause you dodged.
Remeber…the cloak passive procs to clones…so they blur too.
You really have no idea how evasive the mirage is going to be.
You don’t need to be quick as much as bide your time wisely.

ALSO you get super speed when you dodge….what happens if you dodge and shatter at the same time? What do you think those illusions are going to do?

still….not the problem.

EVERY CONDITION IN THE GAME CONSTANTLY ROLLING IN NONSTOP IS THE PROBLEM WITH NO EFFECTIVE WAY TO REMOVE THEM.

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Posted by: Taltevus.3289

Taltevus.3289

This elite is beyond OP.

This is the PU phantasm mesmer elevated to God Status and is exactly what I feared we’d be getting.

This needs to be nerfed well before release.

Never change Azukas, I don’t know where we’d be without you.

Back in the beginning of HoT where Chrono was broken and required no skill?

Today condi chrono is a nice build that requires skill to play. It’s strong as kitten too.

I’m ok with that though b/c of the skill required to maximize it’s potential.

Clones that stack 30 bleeds, 10 torment, 10 confusion, etc. by you just dodging…..that kitten is broken. Even Wooden Potatoes said it felt EXTREMELY over tuned. He’s a PvE freak….

I love me some target golem DPS arguments. Yes indeedy. Wooden potatoes is an excellent source for lore in GW2. He should stick to that.

Indeed, does alout of damage to a target dummy? Lets nerf it to the ground.

RIP Maim the Disillusioned.

Again…as I said. You think you are going to live through the mechanic? Damage is dependent on the AMMY…we’re not discussing damage in and of itself…the mechanic is broken A…F…

Ok, lol we’ll see. You honest to God think you are going to clear three full range burst of conditions ok. Sure. Lol.

I remember when MoD was nerfed? before Chrono came out? You aren’t that good buddy…and neither are npcs.

This is not burn guard with roughly only burning. ALL OF THEM are going to be there.
ALL OF THE TIME. Lol.

The first nerf is probably going to be to having to chose between ambush and mirage cloak and not getting them both.

The second nerf is probably going to come at length of conditions from clones even more.

The third will likely be the number of Mirage Mirrors created. They’ll give aegis instead of blur. Lol.

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Posted by: Cyninja.2954

Cyninja.2954

No it’s damage does not come from stealth…The damage comes from the mechanic Hiding in plain sight.

If there aren’t 4 mesmers running around the real one is hiding.
UNLESS you only play with 2 clones and yourself at all times. <—No one does this.
OR you turn of that auto attack off and act like a clone with 3 illusions and yourself. <——players do this.

Uh ok. I guess you feel smart….because I was not addressing the made up idea of damage from stealth you concocted…in my OP. So yeah…and I am still…not talking about stealth. Stealth is not the issue.

No ones gives a kitten about the damage done. That can be adjusted and it will get adjusted.

The fact that this damage happens while a majority of players are unable to counter the illusions due to inexperience and stealth will cause the same problems mesmers have had for years (and thiefs mind you).

To many condis? Fine, easily corrected via a balance change on how many condis the elite spec stacks, or via the damage modifier on the skill or via a change to condition removal.

The mechanic itsself, not that easily changable without scraping the entire idea.

Now answer me this:

1.) when have I said that damage was not an issue on the elite specialisation? Exactly not 1nce, that’s something you put in my mouth.

2.) have you ever played any MMOs with stealth classes in them? It’s a given that people hate having to counter stealth mechanics, hence why most stealth classes deal subpar damage and even then that’s not enough.

Which is why I said. LOOK AT WHAT WAS ADVERTISED A FINISHED IDEA REGARDING THE CHRONOMANCER!
And look at what we have now.

Thanks for making my point. Chrono was changed not based on mechanic but based on strength of the mechanic. Most notible change was the nerf from 66% cooldown reduction to 33%.

The mechanic remained the absolute same.

Extrapolate to this situation: the mechnic is the issue, not the numbers it produces since those can get adjusted.

(edited by Cyninja.2954)

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Posted by: Taltevus.3289

Taltevus.3289

Do you seriously believe that Elite Spec’s Mechanics are going to fly? Seriously ask yourselves.

Well… considering that there is another class which had this mechanic still launch and had it repeatedly buffed despite having a plethora of engage and escape options even outside of their ambush (and we don’t even get constant stealth), I’d say… yeah?

It’s a very normal thing to have?

I mean look at the skills found in the beta. They’re not that strong. At all.

What are you talking about dude, 600 damage unload! 600! You can get that up to 2400 if you build up your clones and waste a dodge! GG Pistol thief and longbow Ranger we the new pew pewers

I can see it now.
Power block→dodge→ ambush
Swap
Solarbeam → power block → dodge → ambush

Stealth
Heal
swap

Storms of Chaos → powerblock → dodge → ambush

Dead. lul. No shatter needed. It’s a contingency plan. a dodge left.

Can you imagine with Iduelist….I mean you can already do 30 bleed stacks. Can you kittenin imagine. LOL. The ambush would be unreal. I’m dying. Ahahaha.’

Theses dudes arguing like they’de live through ~60 bleed stacks. with ANY condi amulet. Ahahahha.
On top of burning torment poison vuln ok and the on demand stun to make sure it wont miss. sure.

You know I was cynical about this but I think the devs are just trolling. Gave me a good laugh at the thought.