Guild Wars 2

Good day everyone,

I don’t mean to intrude… i have come here from the necromancer forums.
While my main and specialty is still the necromancer, i have made a mesmer build that i wish to share with the mesmer community.

Without further ado…. here it is…
Guild Wars 2 – Defining the glass cannon mesmer

This video includes building up the glass cannon – weapons, stats, items, skills, utilities, traits and last but not least… how do you use the glass cannon after all is well and done…

In this video i have also went over, in great detail the difference between shattering and not shattering in a glass cannon build, with a visible demonstration and math calculations…

FINAL STATS:

~ 3360 Attack
81% Critical strike chance
113% Critical strike damage (with critical damage food)
~ 1839 Armor
~ 16,169 Health
——
+ up to 25% more damage vs targets
+ phantasms that have 100% chance to critical hit
+ all of the above from the safe distance of 1200 range
+ the fact you are more or less the best interrupter in the game, in this build

If i missed anything or if you have any questions feel free to comment here, on in the comment section on youtube.

I hope you enjoy.

I would love a build editor link for this setup, since 34 minutes of video is kind of a pain.

thats alot of damage.

A mantra build? Really?
Sorry but this kind of build is really ineffective.
You have no access to any reflection (the thing that makes mesmer so strong in PvE… cough cough). Sure you can get rid of a mantra for it, but you defently can’t get wardens feedback with this build. Also you wont get access to reduced glamour cd (more feedbacks /hooray), feedback on rez, condition remove on heal.
Mesmers are not picked for their direct damage. You rarely see more than one mesmer in a really good group. One is enough, since he already brings a kitten ton of utility.
GS is not a good main weapon choice when it comes to Dungeons. Fotm? Idk, I can imagine that you often have to resort to ranged combat in high level Fractals, but thats not a good enough excuse to make GS your general main weapon.
Mesmers have a lot of surviveability due to blurred frenzy, perma vigor, distrotion shatters and so on. Sword MH has a higher damage output than GS, you are also able to melee most of the Dungeon content if you use your brain.

Is this build for PvE?

You focusing the mesmer at something he is not good at. This build is as good as a necromancer, who wants to buff fury to his group and therefore stacks fury duration. It’s simple: He cannot.

Mesmers direct damage is pityfull. GS1 damage is a joke. 2-3k damage? Thats nice … but on a 1.5 second activation time. Warrior hits harder with his riffle, and warrior with a riffle is … not good.

You already said in your video, that most of the damage comes from your illusions. But you’re skipping Phantasmal Haste (Illusion X). For a phantasm build, this is very nice to have. 7% more damage for iZerker. 22% for iDuelist. If you want damage, try this: PvE Phantasm-Build
10 left points for either inspiration (utility) or domination (if you want to use gs)

The reason you want a mesmer is, as already said, utility. Utility, utility and more utility. Feedback. Nullfield. Reflection on focus. You throw away everything good – and for what? 3 × 4% damage? To improve your already poor damage? Not a good trade.

Sorry, but I have to agree. This build is really really bad. But i hope you still want me for your necro CoF run

Molch.2078:

You already said in your video, that most of the damage comes from your illusions. But you’re skipping Phantasmal Haste (Illusion X). For a phantasm build, this is must have. 7% more damage for iZerker. 22% for iDuelist. If you want damage, try this: PvE Phantasm-Build
10 left points for either inspiration (utility) or domination (if you want to use gs)

Phantasmal Haste is a joke ability. The mob is dead too fast or they get killed too fast especially since I doubt this build would be taking much toughness to make them more survivable. Take 15 points out of illusion and put 25 into inspieration for the three best minor traits mesmers have all of which boost phantasms including a 15% damage bonus and constant regen. This also gives you access to glamour recast down and focus reflect if you want.

To the OP:
This is a glass cannon build. It might not be bad in its own right but the reason you mention that you have not seen something close is because it is a selfish build where Mesmers truly shine from out utility. As for your interrupts, mobs in PvE that you would actually have to bother interrupting all get defiant so this build becomes very swiftly ineffective. Thx for giving the wonderful world of mesmer a try though. ^^

Your test of to shatter or not to shatter is missing a few things.
1) You are using gs 1 &2 with the gs phantasm build and weapon swapping AND power spike for the phantasm test. For the shatter test, you just shatter 3 clones without IP and dont attack with your sword at the same time/power spike. Your damage calculations also use a single target situation when shatters are meant to be AOE for mesmers so that shatter dps can be anywhere from 900 to 4500 dps . Seriously, this is about mesmers but try to be less deceiving with your math.

2) Also, for shatter builds, you can summon a sword phantasm then shatter it after its attack so you can still get phantasm damage bonuses in shatter builds. Likewise, if your target is about to die right after your phantasms attack, you should shatter your phantasms , since 9k bonus AOE damage is better than waiting 6 seconds for your phantasms to do nothing as your team moves on to a new target. Since you should be in melee for optimal damage, your clones don’t waste time running to your enemies.

3)I just tested this with a steady weapon in pvp, and 4% more dmg for each mantra doesn’t affect phantasm damage. It only buffs the mesmer’s attacks and shatters. Same goes for 3% more damage for each illusion. So your traits aren’t buffing your “main” source of damage.

4) Speaking of it, your main source of damage is your direct attacks which in PvE, full glass cannon mesmers can stay in melee most of the time and live. In your video, your sword hits for 1.6k on the first two swings and I’m guessing it would get to around 3k for the 3rd strike. That’s around 3k dps to 3 targets compared to your phantams 2k dps to usually 1 target.

5) Zerker grenade engineers can stack 25 stacks of vulnerability in an aoe at 1500 range while also poisoning/chilling and doing more damage than a great sword Mesmer. This engineer will also be bringing more utility to the team than your completely selfish damage build. A warrior NOT attacking but using FGJ and 2 DPS banners probably does comparable damage to your build. Bring mesmer utility or bring a warrior’s dps.

Your bloomhunger fight could be done much faster if everyone is in melee, specifically, inside him. I always melee him as a glass cannon shatter mesmer at fotm 28 and don’t have any problems with him. If you don’t stay in melee all the time, you might as well use the scepter with the pistol. Scepter 3 would hit for around 11k over 3 seconds (again, more dps than your phantasms) while your scepter auto attack will hit for around 2k. Your idea of waste and never doing any condition damage is silly. Pretend the confusion doesn’t exist and compare just the burst damage. Since you often don’t use the sword but swap to your pistol, mediocre damage is better than none.
Halting strike is a bonus 200 damage. The worst mesmer trait. The greatsword isn’t that great right now because of the problems with 2 and 4 not hitting consistently but if you insist, you would be better off having +50 power and 20% cd with a gs. This trait does stack with 5 in illusions for a 40% cd on 2 and 4.

Also, the best PvE interrupter in the game is a thief with an off hand pistol for consistent interupts (Prevent all of ac p3 bosses attacks because the warmaster is a noob.) or a shatter mesmer with sword/sword/focus to be instantly shred through 5 boss defiant stacks with f3/ sword 4,4 and then position him against a wall with focus 4.

Hexxen.7216:

Molch.2078:

You already said in your video, that most of the damage comes from your illusions. But you’re skipping Phantasmal Haste (Illusion X). For a phantasm build, this is must have. 7% more damage for iZerker. 22% for iDuelist. If you want damage, try this: PvE Phantasm-Build
10 left points for either inspiration (utility) or domination (if you want to use gs)

Phantasmal Haste is a joke ability. The mob is dead too fast or they get killed too fast especially since I doubt this build would be taking much toughness to make them more survivable. Take 15 points out of illusion and put 25 into inspieration for the three best minor traits mesmers have all of which boost phantasms including a 15% damage bonus and constant regen. This also gives you access to glamour recast down and focus reflect if you want.

I already said that focus reflect is a good trait, if you need it you obviously go for it.

I am not sure if you want to say, that the enemy or the phantasm lives not long enought to make phantasmal haste a viable trait. But if the enemys are so fragile, I would prefer a shatter build and if your environment is so hostile for your phantasms, that they die fast, I would prefer a shatter build, too, since 150 vitality won’t make a difference.

Molch.2078:

Hexxen.7216:

Molch.2078:

You already said in your video, that most of the damage comes from your illusions. But you’re skipping Phantasmal Haste (Illusion X). For a phantasm build, this is must have. 7% more damage for iZerker. 22% for iDuelist. If you want damage, try this: PvE Phantasm-Build
10 left points for either inspiration (utility) or domination (if you want to use gs)

Phantasmal Haste is a joke ability. The mob is dead too fast or they get killed too fast especially since I doubt this build would be taking much toughness to make them more survivable. Take 15 points out of illusion and put 25 into inspieration for the three best minor traits mesmers have all of which boost phantasms including a 15% damage bonus and constant regen. This also gives you access to glamour recast down and focus reflect if you want.

I already said that focus reflect is a good trait, if you need it you obviously go for it.

I am not sure if you want to say, that the enemy or the phantasm lives not long enought to make phantasmal haste a viable trait. But if the enemys are so fragile, I would prefer a shatter build and if your environment is so hostile for your phantasms, that they die fast, I would prefer a shatter build, too, since 150 vitality won’t make a difference.

The VIT wont make any difference since they don’t inherit that. But take more toughness in gear so they live longer and give them the 15% damgae boost that stacks with the 15% from the domination trait line and it is all around better. Phantasmal Haste is a waist when you have the right amount of CD reduction and actually it just sucks all together. ^^ But we wont see eye to eye so no reason to continue this discussion.

the right amount of CD reduction? Phantasmal Haste makes your phantasms attack more often, it does not reduce the cooldown of the skills, that summons them.

But anyway, I will change the “must have” in my initial post. I still think it’s good, but you’ve a point.

I know it doesn’t reduce the CD. I was saying if you have the right amount of CD reduction for summons the PHaste isn’t worth much cause you can resummon so fast which is always a better situation for those o kitten and just in case moments. ^^

Nemesis, i feel a bit bad to say this but:
copy pasting nec’s way of building do not work with mes.
Hybrid too, had same split of stats as nec hyrbid, with small (not) difference that mes condition dmg is plain useless, when nec’s is optimal in splitting in power/cond dmg his dps. same here, trowing 30 pts in power and prec lines is NOT the way to build for optimal dps on mes. the final 10 pts traits on both lines are complete trash. mantras don’t make any sense.
Stop it.

(didn’t mean to be harsh)

I tried this build out yesterday. Fun! But ultimately not for me. I’m WvW almost exclusively and there’s just no survivability here. I guess that’s the downside of glass canons. The problem is that WvW requires you have good escape abilities that allow you to bewilder your foes and worm your way out of tight spots (or gain the advantage in combat through deception). With no stealth and no clone generation and zero defensive stats you really go down fast and hard a lot. Roaming is really hard with this mantra build. It works the best with a zerg, doing long range attacks.

Ryuujin.8236:

Interesting. At a glance I thought “eh, gimmick” but on closer inspection and a quick mess about the play-style rather reminds me of a dedicated interrupt ranger in GW1; hanging back at range with with immense pressure, spike capability and interrupts.

My main concern is how useful it’d actually be in a party since it has no reflects, boons, limited AoE or any of the stuff mesmers are most valued for, and is made out of glass. I guess it’s kind’ve “the warrior problem”; there’s no point any other class rolling glass cannon when warrior is so much better at it

Nonetheless I’m gonna give this a run, see how it works out and whether I can incorperate any of the lessons into more balanced builds.

Would you seriously prefer a glass cannon warrior in fractals 48 over this glass cannon mesmer ?

Agony.3542:

A mantra build? Really?
Sorry but this kind of build is really ineffective.
You have no access to any reflection (the thing that makes mesmer so strong in PvE… cough cough). Sure you can get rid of a mantra for it, but you defently can’t get wardens feedback with this build. Also you wont get access to reduced glamour cd (more feedbacks /hooray), feedback on rez, condition remove on heal.
Mesmers are not picked for their direct damage. You rarely see more than one mesmer in a really good group. One is enough, since he already brings a kitten ton of utility.
GS is not a good main weapon choice when it comes to Dungeons. Fotm? Idk, I can imagine that you often have to resort to ranged combat in high level Fractals, but thats not a good enough excuse to make GS your general main weapon.
Mesmers have a lot of surviveability due to blurred frenzy, perma vigor, distrotion shatters and so on. Sword MH has a higher damage output than GS, you are also able to melee most of the Dungeon content if you use your brain.

When you say really ineffective, what are you referring to ? Cause it does seem to do more damage then any other “more effective” support type build.

As i go down and answer all the feedback that i have received, you’ll understand a bit of where i am coming from.

Molch.2078:

Is this build for PvE?

You focusing the mesmer at something he is not good at. This build is as good as a necromancer, who wants to buff fury to his group and therefore stacks fury duration. It’s simple: He cannot.

Mesmers direct damage is pityfull. GS1 damage is a joke. 2-3k damage? Thats nice … but on a 1.5 second activation time. Warrior hits harder with his riffle, and warrior with a riffle is … not good.

You already said in your video, that most of the damage comes from your illusions. But you’re skipping Phantasmal Haste (Illusion X). For a phantasm build, this is very nice to have. 7% more damage for iZerker. 22% for iDuelist. If you want damage, try this: PvE Phantasm-Build
10 left points for either inspiration (utility) or domination (if you want to use gs)

The reason you want a mesmer is, as already said, utility. Utility, utility and more utility. Feedback. Nullfield. Reflection on focus. You throw away everything good – and for what? 3 × 4% damage? To improve your already poor damage? Not a good trade.

Sorry, but I have to agree. This build is really really bad. But i hope you still want me for your necro CoF run

Of course i’d have you in my CoF group… Constructive criticism is never bad in my book.
So… utility utility utility… well then why don’t we make a utility build then (support build), if mesmer is only useful for utility.

The game was not in such a way that you can be full support and full DPS at the same time.
This is a glass cannon, it does well enough what it has to do.
In the build you have linked me, you lose 100 power and 10% condition duration and 5% extra damage vs inactive foes and a bit of stun/more mantra power…. in favor of 20% faster recharge rate on phantasms which is very good, but at the same time you gain 100% more condition damage which is useless for a glass cannon and 10% shatter recharge rate which you don’t use because you don’t shatter and you gain confusion on shatter… which again you don’t use because you don’t shatter.

I won’t write everything in one spot, but if you read what i will answer the others you may see my point of view.
Anyway… your input has been noted.

Hexxen.7216:

Molch.2078:

You already said in your video, that most of the damage comes from your illusions. But you’re skipping Phantasmal Haste (Illusion X). For a phantasm build, this is must have. 7% more damage for iZerker. 22% for iDuelist. If you want damage, try this: PvE Phantasm-Build
10 left points for either inspiration (utility) or domination (if you want to use gs)

Phantasmal Haste is a joke ability. The mob is dead too fast or they get killed too fast especially since I doubt this build would be taking much toughness to make them more survivable. Take 15 points out of illusion and put 25 into inspieration for the three best minor traits mesmers have all of which boost phantasms including a 15% damage bonus and constant regen. This also gives you access to glamour recast down and focus reflect if you want.

To the OP:
This is a glass cannon build. It might not be bad in its own right but the reason you mention that you have not seen something close is because it is a selfish build where Mesmers truly shine from out utility. As for your interrupts, mobs in PvE that you would actually have to bother interrupting all get defiant so this build becomes very swiftly ineffective. Thx for giving the wonderful world of mesmer a try though. ^^

The reason i’ve made this build is because i have over ~ 800 fractals done and i have yet to see a mesmer that was useful. I may call me arrogant or delusional, but trust me… i am neither. I have seen hundreds of mesmers that all seem to share the same… fate.
I look at mesmers, they run around… they put some feedback, then they drop dead…
At lvl 48 fractals… i dodge out of a mob’s way, fear him to heal… mesmer takes agro… i look as the mob’s HP barely moves… then he hits the mesmer, mesmer goes splat.

While feedback is good it is not always the most important part… in high level fractals, stability saves you… for example from knockdown in the Uncategorized Fractal but feedback doesn’t get off CD fast enough to be helpful…. meanwhile interrupting and CCing the channeling arrow attack can prove insanely helpful.
One of the best fractal 48 runs i’ve had in the Uncategorized Fractal was actually 3 necromancers 2 guardians… 2 hybrids and 1 healer necromancer. Once we got to the harpies… we chain CC them with fear and golem charge… it was beautiful.

Nemesis.8593:

Agony.3542:

A mantra build? Really?
Sorry but this kind of build is really ineffective.
You have no access to any reflection (the thing that makes mesmer so strong in PvE… cough cough). Sure you can get rid of a mantra for it, but you defently can’t get wardens feedback with this build. Also you wont get access to reduced glamour cd (more feedbacks /hooray), feedback on rez, condition remove on heal.
Mesmers are not picked for their direct damage. You rarely see more than one mesmer in a really good group. One is enough, since he already brings a kitten ton of utility.
GS is not a good main weapon choice when it comes to Dungeons. Fotm? Idk, I can imagine that you often have to resort to ranged combat in high level Fractals, but thats not a good enough excuse to make GS your general main weapon.
Mesmers have a lot of surviveability due to blurred frenzy, perma vigor, distrotion shatters and so on. Sword MH has a higher damage output than GS, you are also able to melee most of the Dungeon content if you use your brain.

When you say really ineffective, what are you referring to ? Cause it does seem to do more damage then any other “more effective” support type build.

As i go down and answer all the feedback that i have received, you’ll understand a bit of where i am coming from.

In theory it does more damage. However, no-one cares. You have 0 team utility with his build. In fact, you just have 0 utility at all. The single thig you can possibly do is damage, and your damage still won’t be higher than a phantasm build in some cases, you have almost no access to reflects which will allow you to push your damage far beyond what is commonly possible.

People bring mesmers in parties because they can do good damage while providing reflects, aoe heals, boon stripping, aoe condition removal, boon sharing, aoe regen, and some of the best survivability of any class. Your build has none of that. It has damage. No-one cares about a full damage Mesmer

You would do some damage in wvw, but your more likely kill yourself on retaliation in a few seconds or just squish the first time any aoe came your way.

I believe someone else put it well: I’m sure you’re a great necro, but you have a lot to learn about Mesmer. You’ve made 2 ‘builds’ posted here in the forums so far, and they’ve both been abysmal, demonstrating characteristics that would work on a necro but simple fail on a Mesmer. In my opinion, you need to actually play your Mesmer more, figure out what it actually does, then get back to us.

Edit: I see you’re now mentioning fractals. With proper training, a Mesmer can chain reflects continually, moving from one harpy to the next while protected from projectiles the entire way. I could solo my way through the harpies, providing I didn’t make mistakes. At old Tom, only mesmers can block his spinning green stuff. At the end boss, only mesmers can block the rocket golems rockets. You may think that mesmers are doing nothing in your parties, and you may be right, you might have bad mesmers, but I guarantee you that a Mesmer has more utility packed into one class than anything else in the game.

Edit: more things in that fractal. Mesmers can steal and share the ettins boons, mesmers can reflect continuously some of the ettins attacks for MASSIVE damage, mesmers can reliably strip the might stacking from the flame shaman. I’ve more recently gotten kitten ed off at invulnerable harpies, so instead of killing them, I just run past them and portal my party to the top.

Edit: What I use. Look in Fay’s build guide for the supporting phantasm build. Not only will it do higher straight damage than this build in many boss fights, but it also has every ounce of the utility I mentioned before. I can chain reflects, aoe heals, aoe regen, aoe boom removal, aoe condition removal, spread boons, steal boons…and do all of this while in a semi-glass cannon build that never dies because mesmers have ungodly survivability.

Nemesis.8593:

This is a glass cannon, it does well enough what it has to do.

No. Glass cannon is something that has a sense only if the dmg output is really cannon. Like warriors: ppl want them in glass cannon setup because their dmg is enough to make ppl forget that they’re totally depening on their own dodges and 1-2 party members support/protection to survive.
In this build you give up for utility and support for dmg… but the dmg gained is simply not enough to balance out the versatility loss.

Nemesis.8593:

In the build you have linked me, you lose 100 power and 10% condition duration and 5% extra damage vs inactive foes and a bit of stun/more mantra power….

Here is where the logic in building (that you apply to nec and works) fails.
Mesmer do not allocate trait points for stats. They do it for functionalities.
Most mesmer dps pve builds go 20-25 pts in Inspiration. They do it for 200/250 Vit and boon duration? NO. they do it for extra 15% phant dmg. for focus gaining reflect ability. For glam recharge or vigor spread on shatter.

Pyroatheist.9031:

I believe someone else put it well: I’m sure you’re a great necro, but you have a lot to learn about Mesmer. You’ve made 2 ‘builds’ posted here in the forums so far, and they’ve both been abysmal, demonstrating characteristics that would work on a necro but simple fail on a Mesmer. In my opinion, you need to actually play your Mesmer more, figure out what it actually does, then get back to us.

+1.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Your test of to shatter or not to shatter is missing a few things.
1) You are using gs 1 &2 with the gs phantasm build and weapon swapping AND power spike for the phantasm test. For the shatter test, you just shatter 3 clones without IP and dont attack with your sword at the same time/power spike. Your damage calculations also use a single target situation when shatters are meant to be AOE for mesmers so that shatter dps can be anywhere from 900 to 4500 dps . Seriously, this is about mesmers but try to be less deceiving with your math.

~ made it shorter

1. I wasn’t deceiving, i’ve made two math calculations… for real scenarios, one for single target and a separate one for AoE. I compared 3 illusions shattered with the two alive phantasms which you would get over a period of 10 seconds. You can shatter every 10 seconds, and you can summon two phantasms that attack once every 10 seconds… fair ?

Then i compared shatter 3 illusions on 5 targets vs 1 phantasmal berserker hitting once, cause you can get 1 phantasmal berserker to hit once 5 targets in 10 seconds. I thought that would be fair… Even if the phantasm dies after it hits… you still do reasonable enough damage… taking into consideration that if you want to shatter every 10 seconds you need to go full shatter recharge rate, which would reduce your power type damage in some way.

I have also shown how much just a single duelist does with the same gear and traits (maxed out power wise) on the same target that i have shattered on.

That is my take on this…

2. I agree with you here… but playing in medium/melee range as a mesmer in high level fractals. Oh god… i’ve seen so many of those, it never turns out well… ever.

3. Well yes… it’s buffing my GS auto-attack which added to my up to 3 duelists can stack up to a very nice single target damage, at the safety of 1200 range. You will always be the last one agroed… It’s not only about how high you hit, but also about DPS uptime. If it was only about how high you hit… high level fractals would be 4 berserker warriors + 1 support mesmer.

4. I don’t understand this part…

5. While i agree with this, i still believe that if you want to be a damage dealer as a mesmer, this would be one way of doing it. Otherwise mind as well go full support… trying to make a semi support semi damage power shattering build with melee clones and condition damage stat that you never use… and then wait for your ranged clones to go aaaaall the way to the monsters to explode… in dredge fractal 48… is madness…

If you want a bit of utility it fits in this build, and you can still damage with it at the safety of 1200 range, if you want more utility… make a support build. Don’t make everything into one… otherwise you’ll do sort of nothing.

Scepter auto-attack will also break my phantasms… which is unacceptable for me. Scepter 2 can block quite nicely but vs blurred frenzy… i rather have that, a bit more AoE to a build that otherwise doesn’t have more of it. As for scepter 3… besides the fact it adds confusion… need to test if it really hits for 11k.

Meleeing the bloomhunger at high level fractals is an unnecessary risk in my experience, one mistake from your team members and you’re all gone.

Think that about covers it, thank you for your input.

I think the basic criticism can be summarized as:
You lose too much utility for to little damage.

A “full support” mesmer is still a berserker and traited sth. like 20/20/x/y/z – compared to your build, he does maybe 20% less damage.

Edit: 100% more damage, if he can reflect something

AndrewSX.3794:

Nemesis, i feel a bit bad to say this but:
copy pasting nec’s way of building do not work with mes.
Hybrid too, had same split of stats as nec hyrbid, with small (not) difference that mes condition dmg is plain useless, when nec’s is optimal in splitting in power/cond dmg his dps. same here, trowing 30 pts in power and prec lines is NOT the way to build for optimal dps on mes. the final 10 pts traits on both lines are complete trash. mantras don’t make any sense.
Stop it.

(didn’t mean to be harsh)

I’m not copy pasting anything lol… the traits are different, trait paths… mechanics, the range at which it plays. The dependence on your phantasms. The further away the mesmer is in his glass cannon form the better, as for the necromancer the further it can stay the better… for dagger 1 spam.

Do you think the genius minds that created the most sophisticated build system i have ever seen in an MMO (and i have seen many MMOs in my time), and it also makes a lot of sense… you think they were wrong when they placed mantras at the end of the two trait paths that clearly give passive bonuses to the power type damage dealing aka glass cannons ?

I figured out what to do with them to make something happen, by what i see here… people think me and the people that made it this way got it wrong.
Others believe mesmers are only useful for support in a team…

While i do respect your opinions, if i am making a glass cannon the way i believe it was designed… using even the things that aren’t used. If you are not happy with the results, why not make a suggestion to ArenaNet… therefor the grandmaster traits would not be “useless”… and mesmer would be looked at as more then just “utility utility utility”.

You were just speaking your mind, you’re not harsh.

Well i think that about covers it…

The reason i made this build, the reason i branched out into other classes… mesmer for a change. Is because i’ve had only bad experiences with mesmers in PvE, in high level fractals.

I recall this one event that made me think… “that’s it… mesmer is next”.
Was doing fractals heavily one day, and i stumbled upon a group for fractals 48… it had 1 mesmer 1 thief 1 warrior and 1 guardian…

After we went in… the thief and warrior switched to… mesmers as well. I immediately said… “mesmers ?… 3 ?… really ?… damage will be… bad…”
Of course i got called a noob among other things, nearly got kicked… they bragged about their huge damage in their shatter builds, also about how useful they actually are besides their huge damage.

Believe me when i tell you it was the worst run i have EVER had at high lvl fractals. At one point i just stood still and watch them… in the dredge fractal it was almost like a scene from Spartacus. They were running all over the place with mobs all over them… and when the mobs finally caught up to them, they went splat…

After 3-4 long hours we finally reached the Maw… i took one tentacle, and them 4 players took the closer tentacle. Not only did they started attacking the tentacle sooner then me… i finished my tentacle way faster then they finished theirs.

Then i thought to myself… next time i find a shatter mesmer in my high lvl fractal group, i am going to flail him. Then i thought… how come mesmers do so little damage and are so god kitten squishy… Then i thought… maybe they can do high damage, but they didn’t knew how. Mesmer… that’s what i will go over next…

Pyroatheist.9031:

Nemesis.8593:

Agony.3542:

A mantra build? Really?
Sorry but this kind of build is really ineffective.
You have no access to any reflection (the thing that makes mesmer so strong in PvE… cough cough). Sure you can get rid of a mantra for it, but you defently can’t get wardens feedback with this build. Also you wont get access to reduced glamour cd (more feedbacks /hooray), feedback on rez, condition remove on heal.
Mesmers are not picked for their direct damage. You rarely see more than one mesmer in a really good group. One is enough, since he already brings a kitten ton of utility.
GS is not a good main weapon choice when it comes to Dungeons. Fotm? Idk, I can imagine that you often have to resort to ranged combat in high level Fractals, but thats not a good enough excuse to make GS your general main weapon.
Mesmers have a lot of surviveability due to blurred frenzy, perma vigor, distrotion shatters and so on. Sword MH has a higher damage output than GS, you are also able to melee most of the Dungeon content if you use your brain.

When you say really ineffective, what are you referring to ? Cause it does seem to do more damage then any other “more effective” support type build.

As i go down and answer all the feedback that i have received, you’ll understand a bit of where i am coming from.

In theory it does more damage. However, no-one cares. You have 0 team utility with his build. In fact, you just have 0 utility at all. The single thig you can possibly do is damage, and your damage still won’t be higher than a phantasm build in some cases, you have almost no access to reflects which will allow you to push your damage far beyond what is commonly possible.

People bring mesmers in parties because they can do good damage while providing reflects, aoe heals, boon stripping, aoe condition removal, boon sharing, aoe regen, and some of the best survivability of any class. Your build has none of that. It has damage. No-one cares about a full damage Mesmer

Generally agreed, but I would say there are certain circumstances where a full zerker glass mesmer is desired and warranted, e.g. CoF p1 and maybe a few others. In those cases, running a mantra nuker build is fine, but this build has to do away with the halting strike trait which is currently worthless. I use one of these two builds in Fay’s build list when I actually run mantra nuker (which isn’t that often): https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/BUILD-MANTRA-NUKER.

But more often than ever not, a phantasm build going 25 into inspiration is arguably the best PvE build you can play for mesmer. I run 10/30/0/25/5. Even with the +250 healing power and vitality, you’re still dealing so much damage from the extra 30% phantasm damage. You have to account for those damage modifiers when comparing damage for damage with the mantra build. I’ve run both builds in numerous non-fractal dungeons and the damage is typically even, if not edged out by the phantasm build. PLUS with the phantasm build I always run null field and feedback, in addition to the warden reflects. You can’t beat that type of damage/utility hybrid and the flexibility to change to other extremely useful inspiration traits when needed.

In WvW/PvP, your build and general mantra nuker builds are ok for specific uses, but are very selfish in nature, decent primarily for 1v1. But if talking about PvE/dungeons, this build is rarely chosen over the other viable mesmer builds out there.

Molch.2078:

I think the basic criticism can be summarized as:
You lose too much utility for to little damage.

A “full support” mesmer is still a berserker and traited sth. like 20/20/x/y/z – compared to your build, he does maybe 20% less damage.

Edit: 100% more damage, if he can reflect something

I am willing to put that to the test… you bring your full support “berserker” mesmer, and i bring mine…
We find a nice big fat mob, i’ll get a friend to tank it for us… and we time it.

skcamow.3527:

Pyroatheist.9031:

Nemesis.8593:

Agony.3542:

A mantra build? Really?
Sorry but this kind of build is really ineffective.
You have no access to any reflection (the thing that makes mesmer so strong in PvE… cough cough). Sure you can get rid of a mantra for it, but you defently can’t get wardens feedback with this build. Also you wont get access to reduced glamour cd (more feedbacks /hooray), feedback on rez, condition remove on heal.
Mesmers are not picked for their direct damage. You rarely see more than one mesmer in a really good group. One is enough, since he already brings a kitten ton of utility.
GS is not a good main weapon choice when it comes to Dungeons. Fotm? Idk, I can imagine that you often have to resort to ranged combat in high level Fractals, but thats not a good enough excuse to make GS your general main weapon.
Mesmers have a lot of surviveability due to blurred frenzy, perma vigor, distrotion shatters and so on. Sword MH has a higher damage output than GS, you are also able to melee most of the Dungeon content if you use your brain.

When you say really ineffective, what are you referring to ? Cause it does seem to do more damage then any other “more effective” support type build.

As i go down and answer all the feedback that i have received, you’ll understand a bit of where i am coming from.

In theory it does more damage. However, no-one cares. You have 0 team utility with his build. In fact, you just have 0 utility at all. The single thig you can possibly do is damage, and your damage still won’t be higher than a phantasm build in some cases, you have almost no access to reflects which will allow you to push your damage far beyond what is commonly possible.

People bring mesmers in parties because they can do good damage while providing reflects, aoe heals, boon stripping, aoe condition removal, boon sharing, aoe regen, and some of the best survivability of any class. Your build has none of that. It has damage. No-one cares about a full damage Mesmer

Generally agreed, but I would say there are certain circumstances where a full zerker glass mesmer is desired and warranted, e.g. CoF p1 and maybe a few others. In those cases, running a mantra nuker build is fine, but this build has to do away with the halting strike trait which is currently worthless. I use one of these two builds in Fay’s build list when I actually run mantra nuker (which isn’t that often): https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/BUILD-MANTRA-NUKER.

But more often than ever not, a phantasm build going 25 into inspiration is arguably the best PvE build you can play for mesmer. I run 10/30/0/25/5. Even with the +250 healing power and vitality, you’re still dealing so much damage from the extra 30% phantasm damage. You have to account for those damage modifiers when comparing damage for damage with the mantra build. I’ve run both builds in numerous non-fractal dungeons and the damage is typically even, if not edged out by the phantasm build. PLUS with the phantasm build I always run null field and feedback, in addition to the warden reflects. You can’t beat that type of damage/utility hybrid and the flexibility to change to other extremely useful inspiration traits when needed.

In WvW/PvP, your build and general mantra nuker builds are ok for specific uses, but are very selfish in nature, decent primarily for 1v1. But if talking about PvE/dungeons, this build is rarely chosen over the other viable mesmer builds out there.

In my eyes glass cannon builds are selfish by default… if they had tanking capabilities/support capabilities. Well… then we’ll have it all then, no reason to play anything else.

Nemesis.8593:

In my eyes glass cannon builds are selfish by default… if they had tanking capabilities/support capabilities. Well… then we’ll have it all then, no reason to play anything else.

Which is really the point we’re all trying to make … we do have a tanky support damage dealing monster of a build in the basic phantasm build which can be effective at range, that makes so much more sense to run than a build like this in a PvE or dungeon scenario.

skcamow.3527:

Nemesis.8593:

In my eyes glass cannon builds are selfish by default… if they had tanking capabilities/support capabilities. Well… then we’ll have it all then, no reason to play anything else.

Which is really the point we’re all trying to make … we do have a tanky support damage dealing monster of a build in the basic phantasm build which can be effective at range, that makes so much more sense to run than a build like this in a PvE or dungeon scenario.

A tanky support can’t deal “monster damage” by default, and if something like this would exist… it will be nerfed, or within one month all PvE teams will be 5 mesmer only… since they have “tanky support monster damage”.

Have you red the story of how i come to start making mesmer builds ?… It’s a few replies upper…

@skcamow: You are right of course, there are a couple situations where FULL glass cannon mesmer is appropriate. Unfortunately, full mantra nuker is not. In CoF p1 especially, you are expected to have feedback to protect the party in several fights, as well as signet of inspiration, to double might stacks and fury duration. Those two things are significantly more useful to the party than a bit more damage from mantras.

@Nemesis: You are not copy-pasting builds, you are copy-pasting build styles. You take something that works for necros and try to apply it to mesmer, and it doesn’t work.

You keep using random bits of anecdotal evidence to support your claims that your mesmer build is the only useful one at high level fractals. Well guess what, I can do that too. There have been a very few parties in high level fractals that haven’t commented on how smooth they have gone because of the utility I bring. There have been very few dungeon runs that have not commented on how easy boss fights were because of the tricks I can do. There have been very few times when I wasn’t the last man standing while in melee range of a boss the entire time. Anecdotal evidence works both ways I’m afraid.

More evidence, however, points to the mesmers you have been partying with as very bad. I happen to enjoy killing tentacles in melee range. I cycle between dodges, sword blocks, and blurred frenzy to avoid all the attacks while dropping it with phantasms and sword attacks. It works very well and quickly as long as you don’t screw up, which I usually don’t.

Shatter mesmers are generally worse in high level pve than phantasm mesmers, simply because of the nature of their damage. Shatters are burst, while phantasms are sustained. This isn’t to say that shatter mesmers can’t do well at high level pve, but it does give them an inherent disadvantage.

Unfortunately, all the things you’ve been mentioning about mesmers going splat and whatnot just ring somewhat hollow in the face of your build. There is no build squishier than yours. Not all bosses are melee range. If bloomhunger hits you with even 1 of his projectiles, you will be downed instantly. If mossman hits you with his bouncing axe, downed instantly. The ice eles in the ice fractal will kill you rapidly with their projectile attacks. You definitely would be useless for breaking seals in cliffside, as those mobs would instakill you. In arah, you’d get 1shot by an elementalist or mage. In CoE, there are loads of things that would instakill you. HotW, nasty icebrood dogs or the spinning guys would instakill you.

You complain about how mesmers die constantly, and then you make the squishiest build possible with very few recourses to escape and survive if things go wrong. You need to take a good hard look at what your build does and how it does it, and completely re-evaluate what you think are the benefits of it.

I’ve also noticed how you’ve conspicuously avoided responding to my posts. I would love to see your responses to my points, but I get the feeling you’re avoiding them for a reason…

Aaaaand another +1 to Pyroatheist. Stop reading my mind and being able to explaing in a decent shape what i think. :p

once in a fairy tale i go with fractal 3 mesmer in pt it was rly fast and fun run, 30 sec time warp rule this world. so imo not class guilty, mb bad hands? i run with phantasm build (soldier/bers) heal group, remove boons or feedback if needed. and i still do alot of dmg.
and 1 question, how u run dredge fractal without feedback??

drongas.4189:

and 1 question, how u run dredge fractal without feedback??

Slowly and painfully I imagine.

Pyroatheist.9031:

@skcamow: You are right of course, there are a couple situations where FULL glass cannon mesmer is appropriate. Unfortunately, full mantra nuker is not. In CoF p1 especially, you are expected to have feedback to protect the party in several fights, as well as signet of inspiration, to double might stacks and fury duration. Those two things are significantly more useful to the party than a bit more damage from mantras.

Agreed, sorry for the confusion – in PvE I always run a phantasm build, especially in CoF p1. I believe when folks want full berserker/glass there it’s usually shatter or could be a glassy geared phantasm build (though I would never run that). I was more speaking of the PvP aspect for the mantra nuker.

@Nemesis – I did read the theory behind why you created the build. Have you tried to compare the damage you can do with a phantasm build versus the build you posted, in full glass gear? You might be surprised at the phantasm DPS. Then you’d get the utility we’re speaking of with the high DPS. When speaking of “tanky”, I just mean geared with a little more toughness versus full zerker. You can still retain high DPS doing this.

Pyroatheist.9031:

@skcamow: You are right of course, there are a couple situations where FULL glass cannon mesmer is appropriate. Unfortunately, full mantra nuker is not. In CoF p1 especially, you are expected to have feedback to protect the party in several fights, as well as signet of inspiration, to double might stacks and fury duration. Those two things are significantly more useful to the party than a bit more damage from mantras.

@Nemesis: You are not copy-pasting builds, you are copy-pasting build styles. You take something that works for necros and try to apply it to mesmer, and it doesn’t work.

You keep using random bits of anecdotal evidence to support your claims that your mesmer build is the only useful one at high level fractals. Well guess what, I can do that too. There have been a very few parties in high level fractals that haven’t commented on how smooth they have gone because of the utility I bring. There have been very few dungeon runs that have not commented on how easy boss fights were because of the tricks I can do. There have been very few times when I wasn’t the last man standing while in melee range of a boss the entire time. Anecdotal evidence works both ways I’m afraid.

More evidence, however, points to the mesmers you have been partying with as very bad. I happen to enjoy killing tentacles in melee range. I cycle between dodges, sword blocks, and blurred frenzy to avoid all the attacks while dropping it with phantasms and sword attacks. It works very well and quickly as long as you don’t screw up, which I usually don’t.

Shatter mesmers are generally worse in high level pve than phantasm mesmers, simply because of the nature of their damage. Shatters are burst, while phantasms are sustained. This isn’t to say that shatter mesmers can’t do well at high level pve, but it does give them an inherent disadvantage.

Unfortunately, all the things you’ve been mentioning about mesmers going splat and whatnot just ring somewhat hollow in the face of your build. There is no build squishier than yours. Not all bosses are melee range. If bloomhunger hits you with even 1 of his projectiles, you will be downed instantly. If mossman hits you with his bouncing axe, downed instantly. The ice eles in the ice fractal will kill you rapidly with their projectile attacks. You definitely would be useless for breaking seals in cliffside, as those mobs would instakill you. In arah, you’d get 1shot by an elementalist or mage. In CoE, there are loads of things that would instakill you. HotW, nasty icebrood dogs or the spinning guys would instakill you.

You complain about how mesmers die constantly, and then you make the squishiest build possible with very few recourses to escape and survive if things go wrong. You need to take a good hard look at what your build does and how it does it, and completely re-evaluate what you think are the benefits of it.

I’ve also noticed how you’ve conspicuously avoided responding to my posts. I would love to see your responses to my points, but I get the feeling you’re avoiding them for a reason…

I apologize if it may have seemed that i say only my build is the way to go. Far from it… just like with other classes there are various ways and paths to take to play and bring something to the team. If you want to support… great, if you want to do damage… do damage. What i have a problem with is with people that have nothing…

I wouldn’t mind if a glass cannon dies every now and then, if when he is alive he does a lot of damage. I also don’t have a problem with a support build… if he supports. Speaking of support… i was in a fractal once with 3 guardians, we had 0 reflect walls in the uncategorized fractal… You think they had damage ?… noup…

I also said in the beginning of my mesmer hybrid build, that there are a lot of good mesmer builds out there (i’m guessing…) so why 99% of the mesmers out there seem to go splat, have no damage… and utility… mehhh… not that much difference.

I’m not ranting about mesmers as a class… in the same category fall the necromancers as well with their “epidemic build” while they auto-attack with a staff…
From my experience mesmers and necromancers are the worst company to have in fractals…

I wished to help… that’s why i said, either my build or some other well made build… but just get something… and what ever you do don’t give me the “well i do insane damage and support and tank with my shatter build”… then take 2 steps and fall splat.

Last thing… there was this trend a month back… maybe two, where everyone seemed to think that in high level fractals, you either go full glass cannon or you don’t go at all. Well… this is as glassy as you can get. But i do agree… you can play different styles, as long as they are well made… and you don’t invest in something you waste later on.

skcamow.3527:

Pyroatheist.9031:

@skcamow: You are right of course, there are a couple situations where FULL glass cannon mesmer is appropriate. Unfortunately, full mantra nuker is not. In CoF p1 especially, you are expected to have feedback to protect the party in several fights, as well as signet of inspiration, to double might stacks and fury duration. Those two things are significantly more useful to the party than a bit more damage from mantras.

Agreed, sorry for the confusion – in PvE I always run a phantasm build, especially in CoF p1. I believe when folks want full berserker/glass there it’s usually shatter or could be a glassy geared phantasm build (though I would never run that). I was more speaking of the PvP aspect for the mantra nuker.

@Nemesis – I did read the theory behind why you created the build. Have you tried to compare the damage you can do with a phantasm build versus the build you posted, in full glass gear? You might be surprised at the phantasm DPS. Then you’d get the utility we’re speaking of with the high DPS. When speaking of “tanky”, I just mean geared with a little more toughness versus full zerker. You can still retain high DPS doing this.

What do you mean by “the phantasm build”… cause in this build i use phantasms, link me and i’ll put it to the test, i have all the gear…

The general rules still apply i think… if you take away power or crit chance or crit damage in favor of toughness or vitality, you can’t possibly get more damage, and if you do… it will get nerfed, or the power side will get buffed, and if not… everyone will start to use it.

That applies to all builds, all classes, all games… you can never have balance if something has it all.

@Nemesis: You need to learn the mesmer traits a bit better. 25 points into the inspiration (our main support/healing power/vitality line) is a minor trait that makes our phantasms do 15% more damage. That’s 15% higher damage flat, without relying on power, crit chance, or crit damage. Another trait exists 10 points into domination, 15% damage, and they stack.

You seem to attract the worst type of people in fractal runs…or maybe it’s not the other people, you have to also consider that as well. If all of your fractal runs go poorly, there’s only 1 common factor. In my experience with fractal runs, having a necromancer is fantastic, continual conditions, lots of mob disabling utility, along with making my warlocks hit like trucks (think 8.5k-10k per hit, every 4 seconds…and you think your build does more damage than that?). Having mesmers in a party is also great. Even if they don’t know exactly what to do to optimize their builds and playstyle to each encounter, I can guide them in that regard, and they come out knowing more than they went in, along with contributing to a very smooth and quick fractal run.

Here’s one more thing. Your build isn’t new. It’s not unique. It’s the standard glass cannon mantra nuker that hits like a truck in some very specific situations and does nothing else. It’s been around for a very long time, as putting 30 points into both of the damage trees is something that people did way back at the start of the game. The reason you never see it run is because it sucks.

I’m glad you managed to work up a response, but a little bit annoyed that you still conveniently ignored all of the myriad points I made as to why your build is ineffective.

Edit: You keep mentioning support, survivability, and damage as if they were things that couldn’t possibly fit together in 1 build. Allow me to present my PvE phantasm build: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Guide-PvE-Supporting-Phantasm-Build/first

I have been using this build in all pve content (with a couple small exceptions) for upwards of 4 months, as you can tell by the posting date. It has around 20k hp for good passive survivability, as well as just over 2000 armor. It has strong aoe healing (2600 per 3 seconds), can spec for 100% uptime on projectile reflection, or 100% uptime on projectile destruction, can do aoe boon removal, stealing, sharing, aoe condition removal, self condition removal. Has stunbreaks, invulnerabilities, and of course, it has very high damage. My warlocks will hit generally for around 5-6k in a party with no necromancer, and often over 10k in parties with a necromancer. My wardens will spin for 8k damage. Swordsmen will do 5k chunks. My own damage is actually decent, though it doesn’t compare to the damage my phantasms can do.

In this build, you get survivability, damage, and support all in one. Enjoy!

Pyroatheist.9031:

@Nemesis: You need to learn the mesmer traits a bit better. 25 points into the inspiration (our main support/healing power/vitality line) is a minor trait that makes our phantasms do 15% more damage. That’s 15% higher damage flat, without relying on power, crit chance, or crit damage. Another trait exists 10 points into domination, 15% damage, and they stack.

You seem to attract the worst type of people in fractal runs…or maybe it’s not the other people, you have to also consider that as well. If all of your fractal runs go poorly, there’s only 1 common factor. In my experience with fractal runs, having a necromancer is fantastic, continual conditions, lots of mob disabling utility, along with making my warlocks hit like trucks (think 8.5k-10k per hit, every 4 seconds…and you think your build does more damage than that?). Having mesmers in a party is also great. Even if they don’t know exactly what to do to optimize their builds and playstyle to each encounter, I can guide them in that regard, and they come out knowing more than they went in, along with contributing to a very smooth and quick fractal run.

Here’s one more thing. Your build isn’t new. It’s not unique. It’s the standard glass cannon mantra nuker that hits like a truck in some very specific situations and does nothing else. It’s been around for a very long time, as putting 30 points into both of the damage trees is something that people did way back at the start of the game. The reason you never see it run is because it sucks.

Edit: You keep mentioning support, survivability, and damage as if they were things that couldn’t possibly fit together in 1 build. Allow me to present my PvE phantasm build: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Guide-PvE-Supporting-Phantasm-Build/first

I have been using this build in all pve content (with a couple small exceptions) for upwards of 4 months, as you can tell by the posting date. It has around 20k hp for good passive survivability, as well as just over 2000 armor. It has strong aoe healing (2600 per 3 seconds), can spec for 100% uptime on projectile reflection, or 100% uptime on projectile destruction, can do aoe boon removal, stealing, sharing, aoe condition removal, self condition removal. Has stunbreaks, invulnerabilities, and of course, it has very high damage. My warlocks will hit generally for around 5-6k in a party with no necromancer, and often over 10k in parties with a necromancer. My wardens will spin for 8k damage. Swordsmen will do 5k chunks. My own damage is actually decent, though it doesn’t compare to the damage my phantasms can do.

In this build, you get survivability, damage, and support all in one. Enjoy!

Haha… that 1 common factor is usually the last man standing. Anyway… i have took into consideration what you said, and i will give this build a try for a comparison. Maybe even do a match-up between the damage numbers of the both of these… when ever i will have the time.

PS: what’s the damage rotation ? I don’t want to do it wrong and then say something without getting the facts right. If… you actually do more damage, or at least the same… then my build needs to be buffed or yours nerfed. Stat wise you have quite… less.

Nemesis.8593:

Pyroatheist.9031:

@Nemesis: You need to learn the mesmer traits a bit better. 25 points into the inspiration (our main support/healing power/vitality line) is a minor trait that makes our phantasms do 15% more damage. That’s 15% higher damage flat, without relying on power, crit chance, or crit damage. Another trait exists 10 points into domination, 15% damage, and they stack.

You seem to attract the worst type of people in fractal runs…or maybe it’s not the other people, you have to also consider that as well. If all of your fractal runs go poorly, there’s only 1 common factor. In my experience with fractal runs, having a necromancer is fantastic, continual conditions, lots of mob disabling utility, along with making my warlocks hit like trucks (think 8.5k-10k per hit, every 4 seconds…and you think your build does more damage than that?). Having mesmers in a party is also great. Even if they don’t know exactly what to do to optimize their builds and playstyle to each encounter, I can guide them in that regard, and they come out knowing more than they went in, along with contributing to a very smooth and quick fractal run.

Here’s one more thing. Your build isn’t new. It’s not unique. It’s the standard glass cannon mantra nuker that hits like a truck in some very specific situations and does nothing else. It’s been around for a very long time, as putting 30 points into both of the damage trees is something that people did way back at the start of the game. The reason you never see it run is because it sucks.

Edit: You keep mentioning support, survivability, and damage as if they were things that couldn’t possibly fit together in 1 build. Allow me to present my PvE phantasm build: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Guide-PvE-Supporting-Phantasm-Build/first

I have been using this build in all pve content (with a couple small exceptions) for upwards of 4 months, as you can tell by the posting date. It has around 20k hp for good passive survivability, as well as just over 2000 armor. It has strong aoe healing (2600 per 3 seconds), can spec for 100% uptime on projectile reflection, or 100% uptime on projectile destruction, can do aoe boon removal, stealing, sharing, aoe condition removal, self condition removal. Has stunbreaks, invulnerabilities, and of course, it has very high damage. My warlocks will hit generally for around 5-6k in a party with no necromancer, and often over 10k in parties with a necromancer. My wardens will spin for 8k damage. Swordsmen will do 5k chunks. My own damage is actually decent, though it doesn’t compare to the damage my phantasms can do.

In this build, you get survivability, damage, and support all in one. Enjoy!

Haha… that 1 common factor is usually the last man standing. Anyway… i have took into consideration what you said, and i will give this build a try for a comparison. Maybe even do a match-up between the damage numbers of the both of these… when ever i will have the time.

PS: what’s the damage rotation ? I don’t want to do it wrong and then say something without getting the facts right. If… you actually do more damage, or at least the same… then my build needs to be buffed or yours nerfed. Stat wise you have quite… less.

I recommend you read my guide that I posted in that thread. There is no damage rotation. You swap out utilities, traits, and weapons depending on the content you face. The ‘damage rotation’ changes based on what weapons you have equipped, the type of mobs you are facing, and your party composition. If you have a situation where you can produce and maintain 3 staff phantasms (warlocks) that will usually be your maximum damage. Any damage that you personally do will pale in comparison to 8k-10k chunks x3 each every 4 seconds. However, in some situations greatsword is more appropriate, or sword phantasms, or wardens. Damage is a byproduct of this build. You support your party, you spread aoe regen with phantasms, you provide reflects, etc, and your phantasms also do a ton of damage. Mantra heals are a large part of the support, but are not necessary, if you need those inspiration traits or that utility slot for something else, change it. The main thing with the build is adaptability and utility. You adapt it to fit the utility required for every individual fight.

I’m actually working on a video guide for PvE endgame content using that build, though I’m not sure when I’ll start rolling it out unfortunately.

My point of view, Nemesis:

You have done this build with the trinity idea in mind. In other games where the trinity exists, this build could work perfectly, but in this game the point is not to be selfish.

But in this game you need to be able to do more than just DPS or more that just tank. That’s why people try to tell you that sacrificing all the utilities and traits just to have a little more direct DPS isn’t worth.

With a phantasm build maybe you won’t be able to reach the DPS of your build, but sure it will be like 90% of yours. and you will be able to help people with other things.

Nemesis.8593:

1. I wasn’t deceiving, i’ve made two math calculations… for real scenarios, one for single target and a separate one for AoE. I compared 3 illusions shattered with the two alive phantasms which you would get over a period of 10 seconds. You can shatter every 10 seconds, and you can summon two phantasms that attack once every 10 seconds… fair ?

I must have missed that part of the AOE calculations then. My bad. Watch your own video though. Video at 31:34 or 31:55. Your berserker never lives to get a second pass on the enemies so its DPS isn’t as high as you think. 40k berserker damage every 16 seconds is 2.5k DPS not 6666 dps that you claim. Since your video shows that he is going to die before he can attack again, use 4 &2 then SHATTER. You seem to be against shatter mesmers so much that you refuse to do it despite your video experience showing that you would be better of doing it. Also the greatsword phantasms is a bit buggy so the 40k is theoretical but usually will be lower. The GS trait would help since it would bring the phantasm CD to 12 seconds instead of 16.

Nemesis.8593:

2. I agree with you here… but playing in medium/melee range as a mesmer in high level fractals. Oh god… i’ve seen so many of those, it never turns out well… ever.
Stuff…. post was getting too opposite of 15 characters =)

Except I do mele in dredge fractals and although the highest I’ve done is 38, I do live through it. The focus pull to stack a group against a wall while also interupting the “gongs” is great. Then as a shatter mesmer, I have shattered concentration to rip protection and all the other boons off the mobs so my whole group doesn’t have their DPS reduced by 33%. 5 ppl not doing 33% less or 5 ppl doing 33% less damage while 1 of them does 12% more damage… I’m sorry you have bad experiences with mele shatter mesmers in fractals but that doesn’t make them invalid because other people can and do pull them off. Even when I swap to a GS, shatter to remove boons with your build would still be more of a benefit to your team than hoping your phantasm will live 6 seconds against the dredge grenades. It won’t.

You manage to have 3 phantasms up once for a short period during the entire bloomhunger fight. If you have 3 phantasms out, you will over ride a phantasm with a clone. If you have 2 phants and a clone, a new clone will always replace the old clone. So only once during that bloomhunger fight would the scepter have been a decrease to your phantasm dps.
If you stand inside bloomhunger, the only attacks that can hit you are his agony attacks. His shockwave and melee attacks will always wiff. So use sword 2 & 4 (Does around 5-7k riposte in 1/2 a sec if you time it right and spawns a free shatter clone.) when he does his agony attacks. If most of your team is in mele and anyone is also using aegis or protection it gets even easier since you can quickly res anyone that makes a mistake while your teams buffs will actually affect your team since you are in range of each other. 1 or 2 ranged people for the adds is good though.
Phantasm summoning takes time away from your auto attacks. My point with #4 is that summoning a phantasm is sometimes a loss to your dps. The duelist when you are fighting 3 mobs is a drop in DPS compared to your sword 1/2.
With IP, dodging to create a clone and shattering mid dodge is bonus damage you dont have in your calculations. F2 for example crits around 800 in a zerker shatter build. If you clone dodge and F2 mid dodge thats a bonus 1600 aoe and with a single clone and IP does 4 stacks of confusion for about 1k DMG. Since you are dodging something painful, that 1k and bonus might will happen. Similar bonus damage happens with F1 and F3. F3 will also spike 25 stacks of vulnerability on a boss for 6 seconds every 30. Just because it’s bonus condition damage doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen for a zerker shatter mesmer or that it doesn’t count for the “cannon” DPS.

One last time, my shatter build also does phantasm damage. Your phantams build should also do shatter damage. Don’t always shatter immediatly after your phantasms attack but you need to learn when to shatter even those 8k heavy hitters. To completely ignore 1 or the other is a waste of important mesmers tools.

I played the mantra build for like three months and yes its heavy DMG when you can weave in three tics mantra of pain. In wvw setting it may be fun taking out noobs in 2 seconds but anything with toughness will absorb your first barrage and then wipe you.

Although I still have full berserker gear I’ve retraited away from mantras 100% and now have 0/20/25/20/5 in my traits and I still do decent DMG to noons I’ve increased my survivability a lot and picked up a lot of reflect. I’m considering changing some or all of my berserkers for knights gear. Wvw is not about hunting noobs gathering iron. Besides what good is DMG if you are just throwing/pushing them off cliffs ;-)

Noted… even if my build respects the definition of a glass cannon build, there may be some builds out there that are more beneficial to a team then just DPS. Sometimes it is worth it to lose damage in favor of support…

While i do believe my glass cannon build does what it advertises very well… i will hold true to my gaming name and not dismiss other theories when they are presented with reasonable argument.
So… going to give Pyroatheist.9031’s build a try. If it turns out good i’ll even advertise your build as an alternative, and give you all the credit of course… for people who would sacrifice some damage so that they are not so squishy…

ps: whisper me in game sometimes, i’d love to see a “better” mesmer in fractals… and i am not being ironic or mean, i actually want to see what you do and how it helps… maybe that will change my resentment towards mesmers that i have accumulated…
Maybe we can do some fractal runs…

Nemesis.8593:

skcamow.3527:

@Nemesis – I did read the theory behind why you created the build. Have you tried to compare the damage you can do with a phantasm build versus the build you posted, in full glass gear? You might be surprised at the phantasm DPS. Then you’d get the utility we’re speaking of with the high DPS. When speaking of “tanky”, I just mean geared with a little more toughness versus full zerker. You can still retain high DPS doing this.

What do you mean by “the phantasm build”… cause in this build i use phantasms, link me and i’ll put it to the test, i have all the gear…

The general rules still apply i think… if you take away power or crit chance or crit damage in favor of toughness or vitality, you can’t possibly get more damage, and if you do… it will get nerfed, or the power side will get buffed, and if not… everyone will start to use it.

That applies to all builds, all classes, all games… you can never have balance if something has it all.

Pyro’s build is excellent, though I use different kind of build with no mantra heals. If you want them you have to decide you aren’t using warden reflects which isn’t recommended in most cases. I also use pistol and warden phantasms which provide excellent damage. The gear/food choices ensure high DPS. With feedback/warden reflects and null field/condition cleansing combo finishers and of course TW, you provide nice utility:
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/mesmer/?4.0|c.1g.h1l.d.1g.h2|b.1g.h19.a.1g.h1|1n.a7.1n.a7.1n.a7.1n.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7|1g.67.1i.67.1i.67.1i.67.1i.67.1i.67|a3.u249.0.p28.5|3a.2|33.38.39.3d.3q|e

Many don’t favor the scepter but it works fine if you turn off AA and use #2 and #3. Main reason to take Sc/P is to switch to it to get off a quick duelist, #3, #2 if necessary and switch back to Sw/F.

Edit: I will say I used to use GS+Sw/F, but since iZerker has been bugged, I went with Sc/P. If using GS take 10 out of dueling (keeping II and XI) and take GS CD trait in dom.

My guild is casual friendly and I like teaching people so we don’t always have the ideal runs but they work out. I have a sorta set group that runs 30’s but some of us got burnt out on fractals. With that in mind, carrying a not so great group is a way of showing what your build is capable of. I tend to swap between my mes, thief (for the Dredge panel) and guardian but I would be willing to show case my mesmer for an entire run. I’m on NA.

Also, as other’s have stated, you make great Necro guides which is why I’ve been extra lengthy with my replies. Your choice of halting strike makes it pretty obvious that you aren’t super familiar with mesmers. If you were some random noob, I’d ignore this thread.

In regardes to the definition of glass cannon, I think maximizing your DPS as much as possible at the cost of defense is the best simple definition. The emphasis is still on maximizing DPS. The 25 inspiration minor comes at the cost of 10 less in domination and dueling. So 100 less power out of 3360 and 10% less crit dmg out of 113% is only losing 3% of your attack(base damage) and 9% of your crit damage for a base 15% increase in your phantasms. Since the mantra bonus also doesn’t affect phantasms, this trait in a defensive tree will actually increase your phantasm damage more than the offensive trees. This tree also means more reflecting from the focus or glamours which is more damage you are doing indirectly. So this build has the potential to do much more damage than your build while being slightly less glassy. This might not seem fair but the balance of it comes with skill/timing.

About glass cannons: If you are not doing high level fractals (40+) you can clear any content with 5 glass cannons with ease, period. All this talk about lack of support being bad & selfish is kind ridiculous to me. And if you are doing fractals 40+ with an organized group you are going to have at least 1 (or 2 when a sensible player relogs on his/her guardian alt to help out the group) guardian(s) so mesmer reflect & other utilities aren’t all that useful, or important. At the end of the day it all boils down to dps. While I am personally unsure whether Nemesis’s build is the best for this, but it’s quite good, quite close to what I think is optimal.

Sina.9208:

About glass cannons: If you are not doing high level fractals (40+) you can clear any content with 5 glass cannons with ease, period. All this talk about lack of support being bad & selfish is kind ridiculous to me. And if you are doing fractals 40+ with an organized group you are going to have at least 1 (or 2 when a sensible player relogs on his/her guardian alt to help out the group) guardian(s) so mesmer reflect & other utilities aren’t all that useful, or important. At the end of the day it all boils down to dps. While I am personally unsure whether Nemesis’s build is the best for this, but it’s quite good, quite close to what I think is optimal.

Well, as it turns out, you’re completely wrong. Guardians provide some utility, but mesmers provide more. You don’t bring mesmers in groups for the damage, you bring them for the utility that only they can provide, and that has been mentioned over and over in this thread that you obviously didn’t read. Nemesis’ build has 0 utility, and will squish if a level 40 fractal mob so much as sneezes in his general direction…not helpful from a dps standpoint.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Sina.9208:

About glass cannons: If you are not doing high level fractals (40+) you can clear any content with 5 glass cannons with ease, period. All this talk about lack of support being bad & selfish is kind ridiculous to me. And if you are doing fractals 40+ with an organized group you are going to have at least 1 (or 2 when a sensible player relogs on his/her guardian alt to help out the group) guardian(s) so mesmer reflect & other utilities aren’t all that useful, or important. At the end of the day it all boils down to dps. While I am personally unsure whether Nemesis’s build is the best for this, but it’s quite good, quite close to what I think is optimal.

Well, as it turns out, you’re completely wrong. Guardians provide some utility, but mesmers provide more. You don’t bring mesmers in groups for the damage, you bring them for the utility that only they can provide, and that has been mentioned over and over in this thread that you obviously didn’t read. Nemesis’ build has 0 utility, and will squish if a level 40 fractal mob so much as sneezes in his general direction…not helpful from a dps standpoint.

I’m obviously not a Mesmer expert, anyhow this is interesting. Would you mind listing the utilities only Mesmers can provide? (pls don’t say portal & mass invisibility)

Sina.9208:

Pyroatheist.9031:

Sina.9208:

About glass cannons: If you are not doing high level fractals (40+) you can clear any content with 5 glass cannons with ease, period. All this talk about lack of support being bad & selfish is kind ridiculous to me. And if you are doing fractals 40+ with an organized group you are going to have at least 1 (or 2 when a sensible player relogs on his/her guardian alt to help out the group) guardian(s) so mesmer reflect & other utilities aren’t all that useful, or important. At the end of the day it all boils down to dps. While I am personally unsure whether Nemesis’s build is the best for this, but it’s quite good, quite close to what I think is optimal.

Well, as it turns out, you’re completely wrong. Guardians provide some utility, but mesmers provide more. You don’t bring mesmers in groups for the damage, you bring them for the utility that only they can provide, and that has been mentioned over and over in this thread that you obviously didn’t read. Nemesis’ build has 0 utility, and will squish if a level 40 fractal mob so much as sneezes in his general direction…not helpful from a dps standpoint.

I’m obviously not a Mesmer expert, anyhow this is interesting. Would you mind listing the utilities only Mesmers can provide? (pls don’t say portal & mass invisibility)

• Continual uptime on projectile reflections between feedback and traited focus
  • Option to switch to projectile destruction by untraiting the focus
• Rapid and consistent boon stripping
• Boon stealing + Sharing
  • Sharing also doubles the potency/duration of any boons that other members of the party are providing
• Aoe condition removal + boon removal through null field
• Continual aoe regeneration through phantasm procs…without even having to do anything
• Highest aoe healing output in the game through mantra healing from mantra of pain with small amounts of healing power
• Extremely effective mob grouping utility for convenient aoe killing with temporal curtain
• Time warp
• Portaling past various things (this is most important in some specific areas such as swamp fractal or arah)
• Can use blurred frenzy to completely block many attacks from mobs

There’s probably more that I’m just not thinking of right now, but that list should suffice for a start. Remember, again, in the proper build, you can do all of these (though perhaps not all at the same time) without needing anything more than a utility/major trait/weapon swap, all the while providing consistently high damage output through phantasms.

To the OP:

Also, another reason we are so fast to tell you and sometimes in not so nice ways, what is wrong with the builds is from your titles of your posts. “Ultimate Hybrid” “Defining GC”. You realize how arrogant those titles are right? Especially when the builds you propose aren’t all that “ultimate”