Guild Wars 2

Navi.7142:

Do you say he is still bugged (as he should be because he never was fixed) or did you encounter another bug/ damage reduction since they introduced the new 11th June update?

4.5K was when he was bugged and i only got much sometime….now its 900 dmg….utter madness…

Uh oh.. it’s getting worse (and ridiculous)..

I hadn’t time to test it out yet, but if your berserker achieved to do 4.5k in its bugged condition and now just 900 how much damage will mine be able to do now? (He was doing something around 1500..)

I have to test that out…

Humm, I didn’t know where to test, so I ported through the world..

- against stationary things in lion’s arch: up to 2500 (they do not display critical hits, do they?)
- against skelks in southsun cove: 1500 maximum average
AND if they do stealth, my berserker is doing damage to them, but it is not shown
- against some foes in Orr: 1500 maximum average
- against the stunned claw 3000 to 5000 non critical (seems “normal”, but there are a few things that do high damage against the claw e.g. death shroud 4)
- against a dolyak: up to 2900
- against an elk: under thousand – 1300

I noticed that often my critical hits are lower than the non critical. Most of the time my critical hits are around 900 – 1500.

I do not exactly know how much my berserker was doing before, but it was NOT 1500 maximum in average (and critical hits were normally higher than non critical and I think I’ve seen a critical hit ~ 6k). Most of the time I think he was doing around 2400 – 4600 damage.
(Berserker was doing more than 2500 maximum on the stationary target in lion’s arch.. that is for sure..)

Don’t count on these numbers. Not sure if I remember everything right, but it should show the trend..

Xaelous, I could not see if it decreased still more since the last update, but I was just doing a quick check.. so maybe after I played for a while I will see if and what happened..

Navi.7142:

Humm, I didn’t know where to test, so I ported through the world..

- against stationary things in lion’s arch: up to 2500 (they do not display critical hits, do they?)
- against skelks in southsun cove: 1500 average
AND if they do stealth, my berserker is doing damage to them, but it is not shown
- against some foes in Orr: 1500 average
- against the stunned claw 3000 to 5000 non critical (seems “normal”, but there are a few things that do high damage against the claw e.g. death shroud 4)
- against a dolyak: up to 2900
- against an elk: under thousand – 1300

I noticed that often my critical hits are lower than the non critical. Most of the time my critical hits are around 900 – 1500.

I do not exactly know how much my berserker was doing before, but it was NOT 1500 in average (and critical hits were normally higher than non critical and I think I’ve seen a critical hit ~ 6k). Most of the time I think he was doing around 2400 – 4600 damage.
(Berserker was doing more than 2500 maximum on the stationary target in lion’s arch.. that is for sure..)

Don’t count on these numbers. Not sure if I remember everything right, but it should show the trend..

Xaelous, I could not see if it decreased still more since the last update, but I was just doing a quick check.. so maybe after I played for a while I will see if and what happened..

I got a good chance at testing it and it seems to be ok…only thing is the at times as u stated the non crit is much bigger than crit itself

Xaelous.6528:

I got a good chance at testing it and it seems to be ok…only thing is the at times as u stated the non crit is much bigger than crit itself

How can it be “ok” when the dmg was “accidentally” nerfed by Anet months ago?

rchu.8945:

Xaelous.6528:

I got a good chance at testing it and it seems to be ok…only thing is the at times as u stated the non crit is much bigger than crit itself

How can it be “ok” when the dmg was “accidentally” nerfed by Anet months ago?

I meant ok as in with the bug thats been affecting us for months now….i just didnt want a further bug in its reduction.

Made a little montage of bugged Phantasmal Berserker hits

I changed in my last post that my number were for the maximum damage my berserker made in average. Not the average damage my berserker did. (It’s a huge difference if my berserker makes 400 – 900 – 1500 where 1500 is the average maximum damage I will see or 1000 / 1500 / 2000 as average damage. Unfortunately it’s the first thing I’ve seen and tried to describe.^^)
Which comes close to your findings, Sorrow.

This isn’t my average, I just edited the ones there were way below normal. I saw 4500 crits on these same mobs, and then bam: a 592. It appears random, but there must be some underlying cause in the code that these low hits show up quite often.

I posted my character sheet so you can see my stats though, of course I bet ours differ. I didn’t have any food or boons when doing this either and 5 stacks of bloodlust throughout.

please please please fix this~~~~~

This is our latest response to all known bugs. He says in their dev environment it’s sometimes hard to duplicate a problem because it’s constantly changing. I wonder if they’ve fully been able to duplicate everything that’s been stated in this iZerker thread. It’s hard to imagine not, but who knows what they’re seeing.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/The-forum-bug-process

skcamow.3527:

This is our latest response to all known bugs. He says in their dev environment it’s sometimes hard to duplicate a problem because it’s constantly changing. I wonder if they’ve fully been able to duplicate everything that’s been stated in this iZerker thread. It’s hard to imagine not, but who knows what they’re seeing.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/The-forum-bug-process

No need to duplicate, when theres a dozen videos showing it missing or only doing 500-1000 damage. Their living test environment, I.E. the players, have done all the duplicating needed.

Arale.4207:

skcamow.3527:

This is our latest response to all known bugs. He says in their dev environment it’s sometimes hard to duplicate a problem because it’s constantly changing. I wonder if they’ve fully been able to duplicate everything that’s been stated in this iZerker thread. It’s hard to imagine not, but who knows what they’re seeing.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/The-forum-bug-process

No need to duplicate, when theres a dozen videos showing it missing or only doing 500-1000 damage. Their living test environment, I.E. the players, have done all the duplicating needed.

Yeah but they have to reliably duplicate (in their environment) what the live environment is experiencing in order to fix it.

I made a Mesmer just to see if I would like it, and after much grief over what to spec, I decided on a phantasm build. I was able to EASILY test this in just 5 mins. It’s obvious that the problem is the number of hits the berserker actually lands as it spins through an enemy.
Sorrow’s video is really great, you can see at about 1:00 minute in, it only hits once, and produces a damage of 499.
Assuming a standard of 500 damage a hit, his claim of 4.5k crits is perfectly understandable, 500 times 4 (total hits a berserker should land) times about 2 or so for the crits (500*4*2)= 4000+.
The really sad thing about it only hitting once at 1:00 minute into the video? The Phantasm kinda got stuck on terrain after it hit the enemy and the sword CLEARLY goes through the enemy again, but never deals more damage.
I just don’t understand. If it’s really obvious what the problem is, and I reproduced it with less than 5 mins, I can’t imagine why it isn’t fixed yet.

I think it’s the lack of consistency in the iZerker behavior causing a lot of headache to duplicate everything we’ve seen. There have been so many confirmed issues posted on this thread:

• Inconsistent hits on stationary/moving/non-flat terrain targets (3 things)
• Inconsistent damage when it hits stationary/moving/non-flat terrain targets (3 things)
• No damage floaters where clearly the phantasm hits

I’m sure there are other things I’ve missed. But they have to re-produce all of these issues in their lab environment in order to fix them, and clearly from the last time Jon P has posted in this thread, he stated they haven’t been reliably able to re-produce some of them, which I’m presuming is why we haven’t seen a fix yet:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Did-phantasmal-zerker-get-fixed-this-patch/page/2#post1952053

On another topic here with the auto-attack dodge roll issue, they apparently had some difficulty reliably re-producing that as well, but were finally able to. That issue seems much less complex than this one and yet it took a couple weeks to figure out:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Auto-attack-cancelled-on-dodge-merged/page/2#post2206071

So, I would bet they just haven’t been able to “reliably” duplicate all the problems yet.

Ramiah.5648:

I made a Mesmer just to see if I would like it, and after much grief over what to spec, I decided on a phantasm build. I was able to EASILY test this in just 5 mins. It’s obvious that the problem is the number of hits the berserker actually lands as it spins through an enemy.
Sorrow’s video is really great, you can see at about 1:00 minute in, it only hits once, and produces a damage of 499.
Assuming a standard of 500 damage a hit, his claim of 4.5k crits is perfectly understandable, 500 times 4 (total hits a berserker should land) times about 2 or so for the crits (500*4*2)= 4000+.
The really sad thing about it only hitting once at 1:00 minute into the video? The Phantasm kinda got stuck on terrain after it hit the enemy and the sword CLEARLY goes through the enemy again, but never deals more damage.
I just don’t understand. If it’s really obvious what the problem is, and I reproduced it with less than 5 mins, I can’t imagine why it isn’t fixed yet.

I saw some mention as well of floating point numbers not displaying. Look at the mob’s health when there are low hits, their health bar barely budges. That doesn’t seem to be the issue, although it may exist as well.

I have a mesmer and i cant find the bug, in pvp the berserker just eats people and in pve aswell, what is the bug, i dont understand, it seems well for me.

Fenrir.5493:

I have a mesmer and i cant find the bug, in pvp the berserker just eats people and in pve aswell, what is the bug, i dont understand, it seems well for me.

Hey guys~! I have found their “testing environment”!

Actually, I am not so sure about this being a bug anymore either. Yes it doesn’t hit as hard as it used to but I think they just lowered the damage. I was doing HoTW yesterday and when we stacked up for the Ice Guy after the troll a simple cast of iZerker hit all the targets and with my set up for at least 2k~4k damage. I hate to say this since everyone else seems to be against it but I don’t think he is bugged. I think they just lowered the damage on purpose and that he is meant to be used in more AoEish type positions since he is the only Phantasm that has an AoE attack.

I actually did a few test on the golems and i found that it does not do all the 4 hits that it is supposed to be hitting, only hits 2 and 3 with luck, the tootlip says 4 hits, so this is sure a bug.

That is against a single target that doesn’t move though. The phantasm uses the equivalent of the WAR whirlwind GS attack right? That won’t hit more than once or twice if the enemy is standing still and not against a wall.

Two days ago I got a full miss (0 damage) on a stationary mob with no obstacles around… guess I’ll stick with my staff and shatters for a while…

To be fair Hexxen has a point in that realistically, abilities like warrior WW should also be adapted to be non-optimal against single targets. They’re AE abilities, it makes little sense to also provide full power against a sole target.

Hexxen.7216:

That is against a single target that doesn’t move though. The phantasm uses the equivalent of the WAR whirlwind GS attack right? That won’t hit more than once or twice if the enemy is standing still and not against a wall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HF8vtwO_PvM#t=1m
Tell me this isn’t broken. If they reduced the lenght of the path it travels so it’s a guaranteed and reliable 2-4 hits with decent damage, I could even live with it. But considering what it does there, this wouldn’t even help.
Also compare these two ones:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HF8vtwO_PvM#t=1m17s
There’s absolutely no persistent logic in the path it travels and the hits that actually connect.
Or this one, suddenly the hits connect instantly although the phantasm spawns right within the enemy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HF8vtwO_PvM#t=1m42s
There’s probably even several issues at once:
- damage per hit (although the damage *is* low per description of the skill, probably to balance for the cripple)
- number of hits that connect
- pathing of the phantasm
- maybe its spawn location

PS: thanks for the video Sorrow.

well cheers to all players proofing the bug we all know about, i dont get why is there no answer or communication from anet side.

this is not an tiny issue which can be fixed sometime, this is a majorbug which is out way too long. wonder what other classes would say if one of their maindamage spells doesnt work like the way its intended.

but its good to see that john smith finds time to reply to serious issues…..

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Free-Destroyer-Shard/first#post2210599

its simple not acceptable to wait over an half year and get no fix or workarround at all

Those did have some odd moments but most of the time the phantasm did its attack and got 2 hits though weak ones and then was out of range for the rest. I am not saying I don’t want to see something done cause I agree it is a bit weak but I don’t think it is a bug and Anet just kinda sucks at balancing.

That’s not helpful. It’s not a balancing issue, it’s the complete lack of reliability that breaks it, which is clearly outlined in Sorrow’s video. If you don’t see that, that’s fine, many casuals probably don’t notice most of the issues the game has, but don’t neglect the existence of the bug(s) because of that, especially since they already admitted that it’s indeed bugged.

Still not fixed? Jeez, Anet….

Sorrow: good job with this video:

Demonstrates the problem very succinctly.

Might be better posted in the Bugs forum though… I’m not convinced Anet monitors this forum.

TrevorEh.6915:

Might be better posted in the Bugs forum though… I’m not convinced Anet monitors this forum.

See https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/The-forum-bug-process/first. While what he says is generally true, in the end it’s just a collection of lame excuses.

To be fair, “Lack of reliability” isn’t a solid argument in a MMORPG.

By that logic, you’re only telling them to basically invest serious work into the Engineer class (quite a few random effects!) before even looking at this.

Not only that, randomness is an inherent component of many things RPG. Look at this such as – simply – crit-chance. And that’s just the most common example, from heritage the whole game process is based on dice rolls, adding a random failure chance to ~everything.
Sure, that won’t make sense in a computer RPG, yes. But also, see how accepted crit is, yet we rarely see people complaining that their attacks “frequently fail to do full damage” (read: crit). Well ofc they don’t do full damage all the time, that’s what crit is, right? :P
Likewise, it seems incredibly obvious to me that a whirlwind-line attack will not be able to always hit all hits on a single target, being an AE ability at it’s core. And I would never suspect the number of hits to be stable either, unless the mechanic hard-caps them at 1.

Which is a solution, I suppose. Other types of AEs only hit single targets once, either. Hard-cap WW at 1 hit per target, rebalance accordingly.

Ofc, point stands: randomness is at the core of RPG mechanics, and in many cases perfectly accepted. Pointing at something being unreliable is therefore hardly a useful argument.

There’s a huge difference between an intended random effect, which is inherent to all abilities and especially inherent to the mesmer class, and missing reliability because of bugs. If you ask me to create a random generator that spits out numbers from 1 to 10, you probably wouldn’t be too amused when you notice that it sometimes returns an 11. Or even worse, a 51423697. Buy that logic, we could abandon all bugfixing and say "well, it’s random". Also, I don’t accept bugs just because "hey, it’s a game". While I don’t expect the reliability of an embedded car system here, there has to be a certain degree of quality that’s clearly missing in GW2’s development process. See Jon’s thread above, I already raged there in length.

Carighan.6758:

Likewise, it seems incredibly obvious to me that a whirlwind-line attack will *not* be able to always hit all hits on a single target, being an AE ability at it’s core. And I would never suspect the number of hits to be stable either, unless the mechanic hard-caps them at 1.

I don’t expect that either, it’s four separate hits with overlapping hit areas. That’s totally fine. And it’s totally not the point of this bug report, because Sorrow’s video clearly shows that "there’s absolutely no persistent logic in the path it travels and the hits that actually connect", as I already said above.

Additionally, to those of you saying that this skill acts like the warrior whirlwind skill…it doesn’t. If you test it so that the target is against a wall and the phantasm is spinning into the wall, without moving, you will still see the same inconsistencies in hit numbers. I have tested this.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Additionally, to those of you saying that this skill acts like the warrior whirlwind skill…it doesn’t. If you test it so that the target is against a wall and the phantasm is spinning into the wall, without moving, you will still see the same inconsistencies in hit numbers. I have tested this.

But it’s supposed to, no? I agree though, it can still bug out even when the phantasm spins right on top of a mob/player.

TrevorEh.6915:

Still not fixed? Jeez, Anet….

Sorrow: good job with this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HF8vtwO_PvM

Demonstrates the problem very succinctly.

Might be better posted in the Bugs forum though… I’m not convinced Anet monitors this forum.

I made another thread, hopefully it helps them in some way.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/MESMER-Broken-pZerker-Proof-of-Concept-VIDEO

What some people seem to forget is that the berserker was properly working from launch, then he was broken for 1.5 month, then he was working for 1-2.5 month, before they broke him again.

As the berserker wasn’t broken, as he was working as intended, everything was fine.
Right now he is bugged (like he once was) and that’s not acceptable compared to what a properly working berserker can and should do.

What about the reduced damage that we have seen compared to before? Why was he doing more damage (and not just that because all damage was displayed) before?
→ The numbers of berserker hits were higher before!!!

Or why was he working before (after launch), then he was broken and repaired (end of 2012), and now he is bugged and it should just be a damage floater issue?
That cannot be true?
He behaves not as he behaved before he broke. It is not just that his damage isn’t shown!!

Are you able to log the damage that is done from the golem perspective? We appreciate coming back to the thread. However even with the floater issue we can see as a community that it is behaving differently than pre Feb 26th. And I wish we had saved screen shots and videos to show the numbers that were being seen before this patch. That is that even with the damage floater messing up we can see that sometimes the enemy health bar is only going down to match the damage floater. However if it really is a problem only with the damage floaters… Do you guys think there would ever be a way to get summons damage into the combat log? I mean aside from clones.

Yeah, I really appreciate you communicating with us! <3

JonPeters.5630:

It took me a while, but here is a better explanation with an image.

The illusionary berserker uses an animation similar to warrior greatsword #3 where they spin and move while creating attacks. The attacks are circles (shown as pentagons in my image) that are created at frames in the animation. In this image I highlight the position of all 4 attacks. What this means is that based on the relative position of a iZerker to their target, and based on the targets motion it can hit between 0 and 4 times. The damage number listed in the skill fact is based on all 4 hits connecting as shown by the 4x next to the damage #. With a static target this is possible but extraordinarily unlikely. The movement is meant to help this attack hit moving targets, which is its primary purpose as a skill which reduces movement speed.

In this particular series of screenshots, 3 of the strikes (#2, #3, and #4 ) overlapped the target golem, but as is known in the bug only 1 damage floater was displayed. I am able to examine the golem health before and after and it takes 3 strikes worth of damage but again the visual damage floater is not appearing. We do not know why this floater is sometimes not appearing but because it is a visual bug only we have prioritized other fixes over it while we try to figure out the root cause of this issue. In the meantime, I hope this image shows more clearly how this attack works and what the real bug here is.

Here is the image: http://imgur.com/idkTMrl

Note: the 3rd attack is visually present in two of the images because of the timing of my screenshot.

So the attack pattern is setup so it’s likely to hit a stationary target next to its spawn location twice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HF8vtwO_PvM
Watch 1:00 or 1:27 for example, what happens there doesn’t really make sense to me, and it doesn’t look like missing damage floaters when you watch the enemy’s health bar.
What might have changed:
- the attack pattern
- the distance it travels
- the raw damage
- some LOS bs that causes it not to connect all hits when it spawns right in an enemy or passes through it exactly when the attack is triggered
Didn’t this first occur when the LOS change was implemented?

JonPeters.5630:

this floater is sometimes not appearing but because it is a visual bug only we have prioritized other fixes over it

Still insisting visual bug, sad sad day. Sorry but I’m looking at the health bars and its not indicating a floater issue. The health bar is indicating the correct pathetic damage displayed by the floaters.

Here, have a picture that shows the bug on the first hit on a golem to further prove its not a display bug.

It is NOT only a damage floater bug!

Unless you are happy with a broken berserker and the nerf that come with it, then you can insist on a visual bug.

For the love of the mesmers don’t take us for an idiot. Most of us play them since launch and have noticed immediately when and what was broken whenever a change/ update/ patch was made that messed up with the berserker.

We also need a few more answers:
1. Is the bouncing “bug” intended?
2. Is it okay for you when illusions sometimes do NOTHING until they are dead?
3. Can you check if LOS is a little buggy again?

lol…..so the skill can hit between ZERO and 4 times. this is intended? and with the lesser damage per hit?
convenient answer to ignore a bug they can’t/won’t spend time to figure out.

same will happen with bounce mechanic, no doubt. it will magically become “working as intended”.

seems my Vision on the Mists is retired for good….but at least now i know

Navi.7142:

For the love of the mesmers don’t take us for an idiot. Most of us play them since launch and have noticed immediately when and what was broken whenever a change/ update/ patch was made that messed up with the berserker.

+1. You seriously think players will complain about non-pressing things such as floater issues for so dam long? I’m sure players are smart enough to notice and differentiate between visual-only bugs and ACTUAL damage reduction.

1 month later-
JP: Still visual bug guys, nothing wrong. Every single one of you Mesmers are imagining damage reduction and can’t look at health bars properly.

Its so insulting and sad at the same time.

Relshdan.6854:

lol…..so the skill can hit between ZERO and 4 times. this is intended?

I really cannot remember when my berserker (as he was properly working!) did not hit at least once.
But what should I say.. in my opinion he (in his unbugged version) most of the time did all the 4 strikes, not sometimes 1 strike, sometimes 4, sometimes ZERO.

Do you really want to say he behaved in that way (ZERO to 4 times) before he became buggy?

If it matters I am talking about the pve berserker.. :-)

So basically what’s being said is “Hey guys we nerfed the damge into the ground so now sometimes it won’t hit at all, and when it does it hits for less. The only real bug is that it doesn’t display this horrible damage”

- Working as intended………

No we’re not noticing the 30-50% less damage when it does hit now. Clearly everyone playing Mesmer is wrong…..

Not sure why I never tried this since I already had a warrior alt, but Whirlwind Attack has the same behaviour. You can completely whiff when your intended target is halfway along the skill marker, and usually hit only 1-3 times when starting in melee range. I seem to have better luck getting 4 hits when starting slightly outside melee range. The problem is with how this attack works.
A bigger radius would “fix” both attacks, but is this what Anet intends? And when the qq starts how much of a damage nerf would mesmers and warriors exchange for some reliability?

They already nerfed our damage in addition to that strange behaving whirling attack. ^^

For me all is clear.

We and devs are not talking about the same issue. They only see the floaters fail as the pBerserker bug. The random hits are part of the actual mechanics of this phantasm.

Aforetime, pBerserker was a berserker! He hit all times without fail hits and/or doing a
considerable damage, call it a storm berserker if you wish. At some point in the past, someone decided change the attack code adding variable/es to the attack that allow fail hits (not hit) in the whirling area (along path) depending on the position of the pBerserker/blade/enemy, motion of them and new damage equation. Perhaps due to balance reasons but with the consequences we see today.

Forgetting the floaters and watching the health bar of our enemy, it’s clear. JonPeters: “What this means is that based on the relative position of a iZerker to their target, and based on the targets motion it can hit between 0 and 4 times.”

This explains why if the pBerserker begins his first attack above his target, although if it’s immobile, perhaps it will be hit it only once if pBerserker has moved enough in their path after his first attack, because the target will be out of his second attack area/whirl.

And even when pBerserker hit all 4 hits in our target, I’m sure that formerly he did more damage than now. Probably due to the new code and new constants/variables.

Forget see an improve in the damage or see pBerserker hitting all hits regularly like before. That is not the issue for them.

In my opinion, pBerserker is just not the boss berserker! No longer afraid of see him appearing. Perhaps we should promote another name, Lottery Phantasm is more accurate now or Lucky Phantasm because you need to have good luck to see 4 hits in a single enemy.

Regards