Guild Wars 2

Been using viper for a while as my main star in eve, decided to make a change and go for something more survivable. I enjoy condition damage over power so would fire stats be good to use ?
That being said do condition do good amount of damage without duration if your primary stat is condi damage ?

This thread compares Sinister with Vipers which should shed some light on damage
part of your question, since Condi is the Primary stat for Dire and Sinister:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Sinister-vs-Viper

I guess the question is what game mode are you running? If PvE, then I think
Vipers would be the better option since mobs don’t really clear the condis so the
duration would be a big gain over time. And in PvE you have plenty of ways to stay
alive without Vit or Toughness.

In WvW, some argue that players have built around cleansing condis pretty quickly.
So you may not benefit as much from that extra duration as much as you would benefit from some higher base condi damage and the massive boost to your survivability. If you are running Vipers in WvW you are a Glass Cannon animal and I
salute you.

There’s HoT alternate for Dire, much like Vipers, but with the base Dire stats instead.

…

Trailblazer’s is the name, but it requires the Maguuma Lily which is one of the more expensive “gems” now from the new maps.

Calliope.8675:

There’s HoT alternate for Dire, much like Vipers, but with the base Dire stats instead.

…

Trailblazer’s is the name, but it requires the Maguuma Lily which is one of the more expensive “gems” now from the new maps.

Condi and Toughness high, Vitality and Expertise Low. Great for Condi Tanks.

So dire is a good choice for a tanky condi build, just worried that the conditions won’t stay on long enough to to get decent damage off .
I love scepter and pistol with the bleed trait , secondary either torch or focus depends lol
So if I go full dire stats and for my runes go something like tunes of nightmare would I still be tanky enought

I know it isn’t meta or zerk but I find it boring following the crowd so all the advice helps so thank you so far

dire works really well expecially with scepter shield staff. I am using a dire armour with rampage trinkets mixed to have a little more power becouse i prefer sword shield as second weaponset .

So with lack of duration you still get decent damage from conditions. What about using sigils that apply conditions eg sigils of blood , and adding as many different condition possible with nightmare runes ?, would that be stronger then focusing on one condition and using runes and sigils that boosts that one condition ?

I’ve actually started looking at worrying less about duration, and looking for other boosts to the damage, to make condi more bursty rather than sustained. I didn’t think about it till recently that some of the duration is pointless if the enemy dies before its run its course. What do others think about this?

In WvW/PvP, it depends on how defensive you and your opponent is. And how often you roam/havoc squad versus zerg v zerg.

If you can apply conditions to your target (and they are not cleared) and then you or your opponent cloaks/blocks/evades, condition duration one hit and done damage is much more effective. If you have a plethora of daze/stun, the condition duration actually becomes much more useful as well. Because every enemy player usually reacts with defensive ability use, clone/phantasm generation actually is far more effective since it is a delayed “unblockable” DoT of a different nature (can be killed).

The argument against condition damage is everyone in WvW/PvP has a lot of condition clearing mechanics/food/utilities – and they do. It’s also overlapped with smart target condition clearing from fellow Shout Guards/Auramancers/Mallyx Revs nearby especially in zerg v zerg situations.

In the end, there’s a reason why the WvW meta follows power-based builds (with team boon support) and the PvP meta follows condi-based builds (focused more towards teammate revive/enemy stomp builds).

For PvE, IMO it doesn’t matter. At least not for Mesmers because clone/phantasm production is king since you are avoiding all possibility of death because of aggro mechanics regardless of difficulty/volume of targets first and foremost.

If you play WvW, you’re following the crowd, UKADAM. Most mesmers play dire/TB condi because it’s one of the strongest small-scale builds in the game and one of the easier ones to play for small-scale. Mass-scale WvW favors power only because guardians provide tons of light fields and thus all projectiles going through them from the backline cleanse conditions, creating constant and mass cleansing. And now permanent resistance uptime is also achievable thanks to revenant and the new and totally OP gear/rune combinations from HoT.

In small scale, Dire/TB mes is pretty much the facerolliest build possible to play. Literally, there have been people who have fought and won using this build while playing with their faces to make fun of the people who think it’s a serious way to play.
It’s horrible in larger combat, but that’s just conditions in general.

You’re going to get trash-talked playing it, regardless of if you’re actually good or not, because pretty much all the scumbag gankers who get off on playing cheese have migrated to it these days.

DeceiverX.8361:

Literally, there have been people who have fought and won using this build while playing with their faces to make fun of the people who think it’s a serious way to play.

XD

If there is a youtube vid of this I want to see it. That would brighten my day to see something so ridiculous as someone ACTUALLY playing GW2 WITH THEIR FACE!

I tried searching for a while but didn’t see it. Someone did this a year or two ago and a friend sent me the link. Most search results were people making faces in the character editor (which there are tons of for some reason), so a lot of the results were diluted.

Is the general consensus among mesmers that playing condi mesmer in WvW havok groups is something to be ashamed of?

Erron.5327:

Is the general consensus among mesmers that playing condi mesmer in WvW havok groups is something to be ashamed of?

That depends on whether you have any shame or not.

What I can say is if I see 16 confusion stacks and 12 torment stacks on me at the same time then I dont think ermagerd, that chrono is so awesome at applying condis, I wish I had these amazing fighting skillz. No, its usually a little more to the point.

kitten you chrono.

kitten you.

Dawdler.8521:

Erron.5327:

Is the general consensus among mesmers that playing condi mesmer in WvW havok groups is something to be ashamed of?

That depends on whether you have any shame or not.

What I can say is if I see 16 confusion stacks and 12 torment stacks on me at the same time then I dont think ermagerd, that chrono is so awesome at applying condis, I wish I had these amazing fighting skillz. No, its usually a little more to the point.

kitten you chrono.

kitten you.

See, here’s the difference between you and me. When you see 16 confusion and 12 torment on you at the same time, you get mad at the player who put them there.

When I see 16 confusion and 12 torment on me at the same time, I consider the mistakes I made to end up in that position. Then, I do my best to fix them. In this way, I improve. By doing this multiple times, you eventually reach a level of skill where you avoid that 16 confusion and 12 torment, and then you beat the other person.

Whining about the other person gets you nowhere. They’ll keep winning, you’ll keep ending up face down in the dirt. For a refreshing change, try learning from your mistakes and getting better.

Erron.5327:

Is the general consensus among mesmers that playing condi mesmer in WvW havok groups is something to be ashamed of?

No, it’s not. The general consensus is that condie mesmer is a strong build in small scale, but it rapidly loses effectiveness as fights get larger. Many people will tend to avoid playing it due to the tendency of WvW fights to scale up pretty quickly as more people join in, because it’s not nice to be running a build that ends up being fairly useless just due to how an encounter with the enemy happens to evolve.

Fay.2357:

See, here’s the difference between you and me. When you see 16 confusion and 12 torment on you at the same time, you get mad at the player who put them there.

When I see 16 confusion and 12 torment on me at the same time, I consider the mistakes I made to end up in that position. Then, I do my best to fix them. In this way, I improve. By doing this multiple times, you eventually reach a level of skill where you avoid that 16 confusion and 12 torment, and then you beat the other person.

Whining about the other person gets you nowhere. They’ll keep winning, you’ll keep ending up face down in the dirt. For a refreshing change, try learning from your mistakes and getting better.

I always consider the mistakes I did in not popping my 30 various condi cleanses that I carry up my kitten .

Yes I get mad at them. Because there is no reason not to get mad. It’s a ridiculous rune on a ridiculous build that make ít a ridicilously OP class to face in a 1v1 scenario. It’s as undefendable as perma-stealth trapper theives. It’s just stupid. We already know condi is silly strong when roaming and chrono perplexity lifts that through the roof and into space.

Do I care outside of that though? No. Not even if I get killed by one. Because WvW isnt supposed to be balanced for 1v1. When I face them again I defeat them because I bring friends. I bet they get mad and cry "kitten y u no duel instead of zerging 3v1?!?! when they kitten well know how kittening OP their build is in 1v1. That thought always give me a little comfort. Either way you roll it, you play to win.

Same feeling here. Perplexity crono is OP in small scale combat. It´s the only class i loose nearly all fights. I can even kill a condi reaper more often with my ele then a perplexity mesmer. I would change confusion but thats another story… Dire is not the base reason that it´s so powerful but it adds nicely.

…You guys rock…
I was terrified to post my question about condi mesmer shame.
But your responses were constructive and well presented.
And I laughed Dawdler:
kitten you chrono.
kitten you.

I primarily run small havok squads and I’ve really liked how the condi mes
works for the fights we encounter. But at certain times we will join the zerg for a
push or defense. I’ve definitely felt like I am bringing a switchblade to a sword fight.
I’ve been toying with keeping two sets of equipment on hand to swap to and this feedback cliches it. That is half the fun of mesmer, right? Retraiting on the run.

HEY ANET! You just made some more money from me buying another bag slot!!!

Condi mesmer is strong but against necro knowing how to transfer conditions at the right moment, the fight is almost over.

I get regularly PM while playing my mesmer “stop playing your cancer OP confusion build yadiyadiya” like everyone should play ONE build, aka zerker all along. I don’t like playing a squishy character, dire stats make your character able to sustain damage a little bit even in large fights. D/P thief is WAY more annoying than condi mesmer when you’re just hitting thin air 80% of the fight.

So my piece of advice to counter perplexity rune users : stability/block and dispell/transfer condi, mesmer doesn’t have much dispell skills. If you play agressive, you get much more confusion than if you take your time to read the game of the mesmer.

Condi mesmer is among the 1v1 kings.

If you’re not another condi mesmer or a scrapper, forget about winning against them.

Same principle applies to D/P or Staff perma evade thieves, it’s pointless they won’t die if they don’t want to.

So stick with your commander and do something productive for a change instead of worthless dueling that does nothing of value for the realm.

Zenith.7301:

So stick with your commander and do something productive for a change instead of worthless dueling that does nothing of value for the realm.

There are other options that are a big help to the realm.
Capping and keeping bloodlust often involves 1v1 or 1v2 fights and directly benefits the realm many times over.

Running a havok squad of 3-6 people where I’ve found a Dire Mesmer quite successful.
We flip camps all the time and shut down supply while the main pin is pushing a T3 Keep. Or pull the enemy away by hitting another objective….etc.

I worry this will quickly devolve off topic.
I know MANY people squirrel off in WvW and waste space, but the Blue pin is not the only place to be to help win the week.

Erron.5327:

Zenith.7301:

So stick with your commander and do something productive for a change instead of worthless dueling that does nothing of value for the realm.

There are other options that are a big help to the realm.
Capping and keeping bloodlust often involves 1v1 or 1v2 fights and directly benefits the realm many times over.

Running a havok squad of 3-6 people where I’ve found a Dire Mesmer quite successful.
We flip camps all the time and shut down supply while the main pin is pushing a T3 Keep. Or pull the enemy away by hitting another objective….etc.

I worry this will quickly devolve off topic.
I know MANY people squirrel off in WvW and waste space, but the Blue pin is not the only place to be to help win the week.

Sure, but in my experience a lot of those thieves/mesmers/scrappers I see roaming are just doing it for the godmode 1v1 ego stroke and not because they’re planning to contribute to realm goals.

I’m just tired of class balance being ruined over QQ posts about losing to an OP 1v1 class while our mesmer/thieves/engineers/druids rot in uselessness in teamfights while everyone wants to kick you for a warrior/guard/rev/ele/necro.