Guild Wars 2

This thread is called Discussion: iLeap [Rework]. It is about rework of the current skill and not about whether the “fix” was justified or not. If you wish to discuss the fix, please use this thread, or this thread, or this thread if you have more info on the bugginess of this skill.

With the recent Illusionary Leap no-swap-on-clone-death nerf aka “it was intended for 2 years, now it’s not”, I’m dropping here a thread in which we can once again gather ideas on how to make this skill, ehm, actually work instead of regularly failing to path its way to the target or dying before it can be used.

My 2 coppers:

• iLeap is replaced by iSpawn (or Doppleganger, or whatever) which spawns the clone at target position, similar to iWarden. This solves the terrible pathing issues which more often than not make the skill useless.
• The clone receives 1 second of immunity to damage and conditions, cripples the foe, but does not attack at this time. The clone can be pulled/pushed/stunned. As previously, the clone follows the target.
• After 1 second, the clone starts the Mind Slash sword chain.
• The Swap skill receives a 0.5 seconds pre-cooldown after the iSwap activation. This allows the target to dodge away from the immune clone and requires timing for the mesmer to swap to the clone before it dies in heavy damage spam situations, but still allows it to do.
• As previously, Swap causes immobilize.
• As previously, the clones from this skill react to new Swap activations and teleport to target location, but without any new immunities.
• As currently, you cannot swap to the clone if it is dead.
• The Swap functionality may use the same algorithms as Blink to determine whether the location is swappable to prevent possible exploits in things like jumping puzzles (though I would prefer it not to as I think that this algorithm is dumb and shouldn’t have been used in the first place).

i am idea is: it uses savage leap (warrior sword 2) , we can swap with the clone as well, and the swap works like the portal, terrain doesnt affect the blink, means we could even use it in jumping puzzles to places wars usually go to!:o

Wyrden.4713:

i am idea is: it uses savage leap (warrior sword 2) , we can swap with the clone as well, and the swap works like the portal, terrain doesnt affect the blink, means we could even use it in jumping puzzles to places wars usually go to!:o

this plus 1 sec damage immunity for the clone.

Wyrden.4713:

i am idea is: it uses savage leap (warrior sword 2) , we can swap with the clone as well, and the swap works like the portal, terrain doesnt affect the blink, means we could even use it in jumping puzzles to places wars usually go to!:o

After playing my GS guardian for some time, I feel how lack of leaps is limiting mesmers’ mobility. Shadowstepping should be superior, but in reality their weird anti-exploit algorithms and lag issues on bridges/stairs make it an inferior mechanic compared to leaps which can be used across gaps and over ledges.

I’ll vote for none of the above, nor below baring that it’s similar to the following…

I’d just prefer Anet take Mesmers down for 3 or 7 months after LS2 and redo the entire class… redo and re-code every last aspect of it… using every team and resource they have available to them.

Or,

I’ll vote that Anet add the Bard for real as a Class and i’ll just go play that if its based off of anything similar to the D&D ones… I feel that would probably be a better mesmer than what I currently Log into.

Wow bad mesmers are so kitten about this fix it’s unbelievable. Did any mesmer use it as the skill was originally intended for or did EVERY mesmer in the game use it to abuse a bug to teleport and avoid damage?

blitzkrieg.2451:

Wow bad mesmers are so kitten about this fix it’s unbelievable. Did any mesmer use it as the skill was originally intended for or did EVERY mesmer in the game use it to abuse a bug to teleport and avoid damage?

Do not derail the thread.

My favourite rework if I get one would be this:

Illusionary Leap – 15s CD – charge skill
Leap towards the targeted enemy. If you hit, cripple the enemy and create a clone from your other weapon set where you started. If you charge this skill, you stealth and stay behind, a clone leaps towards the target. You de-stealth when the clone hits, again crippling the target.
Range: 600
Cripple: 2s
Stealth: 3s or until clone hits

Chains to: Swap
Switch positions between your Illusionary Leap Clone and yourself and try to immobilize them.
Range: 130
Immobilize: 1,5s

The point would be that the original skill doesn’t actually tell the target which is the real mesmer. One jumps at you, the moment it hits a second appears at range. Up to that point, you have no idea who is who.

Carighan.6758:

Leap towards the targeted enemy. If you hit, cripple the enemy and create a clone from your other weapon set where you started. If you charge this skill, you stealth and stay behind, a clone leaps towards the target. You de-stealth when the clone hits, again crippling the target.

How is charging or leaping determined? Randomly or via pathing? Pathing is too buggy to work and target may move. Randomly is dangerous, and I personally think that the random nature of many mesmer’s skills has always been a bad idea.

It just needs the pathing fixed on incline/declines and currently at the moment it doesn’t produce a clone even when in range (i think since the dead clone teleport bug was fixed). It was never meant to be used as a teleport to avoid damage, stop trying to make it out like it was. It’s meant to be a lockdown mechanism via immobilization and gap closer because sword is a close range weapon, that’s the skill’s intent and that’s what it was mechanically designed for by the devs.

Please fix the pathing though on this skill, it needs to be able to effectively do what it was designed for, if you do anything on an uneven surface it’s extremely wonky and doesn’t work, this aspect of the skill needs to be reworked and fixed. Everything else is fine but that.

Lishtenbird.2814:

How is charging or leaping determined? Randomly or via pathing? Pathing is too buggy to work and target may move. Randomly is dangerous, and I personally think that the random nature of many mesmer’s skills has always been a bad idea.

Leap would ideally be the Warrior/Guardian GS leap. Much stronger than our current one, but the extra delay before the clone appears (or we re-appear) would make up for it.

Charging in this context wasn’t charge-towards-an-enemy. The skill is a charge skill (those with the brown-ish circle around the hotkey), you can hold it down to charge it up. If you press it briefly it leaps you forward, spawning a clone where you started once you impact.
If you hold it down (casts ~1s, no animation), you stealth, clone leaps forward, you re-appear once the clone impacts or after 3s.

Carighan.6758:

Charging in this context wasn’t charge-towards-an-enemy. The skill is a charge skill (those with the brown-ish circle around the hotkey), you can hold it down to charge it up. If you press it briefly it leaps you forward, spawning a clone where you started once you impact.
If you hold it down (casts ~1s, no animation), you stealth, clone leaps forward, you re-appear once the clone impacts or after 3s.

I like the idea but from practice I can say that it may cause usability issues. Like, currently I always have to hold all skills because of how the engine handles network lags (most likely the same reason while you blink and then appear back half a second later) – fails to queue clicks and instead skips them, so timing this charge could be a problem.

How does it work for you right now with charged skills then? I mean, on other chars, we don’t have any I’m aware of.

Carighan.6758:

How does it work for you right now with charged skills then? I mean, on other chars, we don’t have any I’m aware of.

I remember some skills with the effects firing off at the end of the channel – some golem skills from Mario IIRC, fire breath when transformed into a drake. All those require a full channel though and do not provide another effects if the channel ends sooner.

like some one posted before all they have to do is make the clone spawn right at your target and get rid of the whole dumb kitten buggy running to your target part.

Some ideas. Just throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. (All of these assume “fix the pathing not to be terrible.”)

A. Chase skill.

• Extend the range a lot and make the clone cross it quickly (probably requires making it leap or teleport or do that warrior-style Rush thing). This makes iLeap still pretty fragile and not very good as a defensive skill, but at least it’s far better at catching people who are trying to get away.

B. Copy Infiltrator’s Strike.

• iLeap sends you to the target, then lets you return to where you were.
• Note that this is a bit weird with Swap, since it would create a clone at your old location that then runs to a target. So you don’t have quite as much control over where you go. I could see a skill that makes the clone “target nearest” (the way dodge clones do), which turns it into a limited escape button in group fights and a way to get in someone’s face while creating a clone that’s running to them (decent for Diversion) in solo fights.

C. All-in leap attack.

• You leap or blink. I’d prefer leap: better telegraph, which seems fair for a low-cooldown offensive skill; plus it’s cooler animation
• If you hit, cripple (or immobilize?) your target and spawn a sword clone.

D. Control phantasm.

• Make it a phantasm of some sort? Melee, pretty low DPS, but spreads a useful control condition like Crippled or Weakness. (Not too good because it seems like policy is that each weapon set should only get one phant skill, and this would break that. But phantasms are more durable than clones and you can customize their attacks, so this seems to fit well.)
• Secondary lets you pop the phant for a group immobilize. Probably would necessitate an increased cooldown but increased Swap availability duration also.

E. Mainhand Illusionary Riposte.

• Move Illusionary Riposte to Sword #3. By combining Riposte and Blurred Frenzy, mainhand sword now becomes a very reliable defensive weapon (let’s face it, the damage it does was never great anyway). Sword-wielding PU mesmers do get a block/interrupt out of this, but I think the big winner is lockdown/chillruption since now Sword/Focus is a very good control set with two ways to interrupt targets.
• Sword #4 can now be a brand new skill with serious offensive or utility potential. I’d go with offense because that’s very much OH Sword’s niche, I think. Maybe a much more direct and aggressive immobilize on a medium (15-20) cooldown, as a way to help shatter mesmers make up for losing iLeap? (Less spammable, more powerful/reliable.)

F. Revert.

• Just put it back and rewrite the tooltip. Easy-peesy!
• Could consider putting a red circle on the ground if the clone dies so other players have an easier time seeing where the return goes. Or, heck, give the mesmer a big glowy tether to where they would end up. I don’t care.

B and C are my favorites. I’d love for Sword to be more of an in-your-face aggressive weapon.

Make it leap like guardians or warriors. Or make it behave similar to illusionary swordsman- it leaps and evades while leaping. Or just make it akin to infiltrator’s strike…

Just remake the iLeap clone to a special phantasm and change the initial fast-walk to an actuall warrior leap. Much more HP, low damage, when killed with anything but a shatter, he pop a small static field, immobilizing nearby foes. Teleporting to it of course make it go boom and same static field.

Result?

iLeap doesnt even have to be successfull for them to be immobilized and it would still work perfectly fine in zergs. Yes, it would be both weaker and stronger but point is, it doesnt really work in its current implementation. This “bugfix” only break it further.

I say just revert it for the time being.

Change the tooltip to reflect that – “swap 5s: swap places with your clone. If the clone dies, blink to the summoned clone’s last known location.”

I don’t want to see ileap changed, other than the clone’s pathfinding to the target – maybe something like Monarch’s Leap with shorter range. Leave everything else the same.

1. Summon an illusion that leaps at your target, crippling them
2. Swap with ur clone and apply AOE Immob for 2s Base if Clone still alive
3. If Clone is dead. Apply AOE Immob for 2s Base near you.
OR
3. If Clone is dead. Apply AOE Immob for 2s Base on Clone last position

Tried MH Sword today and not really fun. When charging throu AC Rain was expecting to AOE Immob to secure the “Baby” but Clone died so fast.

hey mates you really think that arenanet will do something about ileap? i don’t think so. they didn’t do anything about all the bugs especially for the warden .

i am pretty sure it wont happen anything, anyway i am glad i switched to ele long ago, i only played mesmer once in a while, now i am not playing it at all, u guys need to try out s/d ele, its friggin awesome!

Pannas.7028:

hey mates you really think that arenanet will do something about ileap? i don’t think so. they didn’t do anything about all the bugs especially for the warden .

They did sort out Distortion pretty quickly, so maybe they can do something with ileap.

last time i quit mesmer is when they stealth nerfed izerker in the same patch they did torch changes.. then denied they did it over and over.. even with pre and post nerf screenshots and videos. they are just shady nerfers. bug fix nerf= politicians passing a law in the middle of the night and hoping noone notices.

Gah— alright I’ll post this again since this thread is a more formal spot for it.

Kadj.6725:

Combine and reverse the skill.

-Create ordinary clone at current location. Teleport/leap to enemy.

On teleport: Cripple enemy.
On leap clone death: Immobilize enemy.

Rationale: We lose our second combo finisher and forced immobilize, but for once we have a clone that actually punishes AoEs… AND we hold on to the mobility, even if slightly reduced.

(Clone death effect is immob because we already have a cripple on death trait, of course.)

Optional: Chained effect to teleport back to original spot. I don’t like this though because that’s pretty much identical to a thief skill.

Other ideas sourced: I would like a trait that grants Aegis to newly spawned clones(not phantasms), if it’s not simply added straight up to select skills like iLeap, and preferably a minor trait in Adept. It would improve our clone longevity, which I think would lessen the pain the iLeap change inflicted.

I don’t think straight invulnerability for new clones is the way to go, because that kills the counterplay to big shatter moves – ignoring that invulnerability gets bugged on AI too often anyway. We can shatter a clone before the invulnerability wears off, and we have plenty of clone generation that can’t in fact be dodged – it’s too powerful. Aegis is the way to go. (If we could split the difference by having an passive clone-Aegis-granting signet, that might be cool too. Maybe with an active that shatters Aegis and other boons that have landed on clones to gain personal Fury/Vigor/other?)

Kadj.6725:

Gah— alright I’ll post this again since this thread is a more formal spot for it.

Kadj.6725:

Combine and reverse the skill.

-Create ordinary clone at current location. Teleport/leap to enemy.

On teleport: Cripple enemy.
On leap clone death: Immobilize enemy.

Rationale: We lose our second combo finisher and forced immobilize, but for once we have a clone that actually punishes AoEs… AND we hold on to the mobility, even if slightly reduced.

(Clone death effect is immob because we already have a cripple on death trait, of course.)

Optional: Chained effect to teleport back to original spot. I don’t like this though because that’s pretty much identical to a thief skill.

Other ideas sourced: I would like a trait that grants Aegis to newly spawned clones(not phantasms), if it’s not simply added straight up to select skills like iLeap, and preferably a minor trait in Adept. It would improve our clone longevity, which I think would lessen the pain the iLeap change inflicted.

I don’t think straight invulnerability for new clones is the way to go, because that kills the counterplay to big shatter moves – ignoring that invulnerability gets bugged on AI too often anyway. We can shatter a clone before the invulnerability wears off, and we have plenty of clone generation that can’t in fact be dodged – it’s too powerful. Aegis is the way to go. (If we could split the difference by having an passive clone-Aegis-granting signet, that might be cool too. Maybe with an active that shatters Aegis and other boons that have landed on clones to gain personal Fury/Vigor/other?)

Signet of midnight have quite useful active, but useless passive. Might as well change on granting aegis to clone/phants.

Wyrden.4713:

i am idea is: it uses savage leap (warrior sword 2) , we can swap with the clone as well, and the swap works like the portal, terrain doesnt affect the blink, means we could even use it in jumping puzzles to places wars usually go to!:o

This please.

Skill part 1 – Leap at your target like other sword leaps (e.g. savage leap), create a clone at location on hit for shatter options, and cripple on hit.

Skill part 2 – Return to your original location and immobilize adjacent foes. Whether this is a 0 activation quasi-stun break skill, or 1/4s activation skill like the nerfed infiltrator’s return should be where the balancing occurs.

Perhaps this is a little too good for MH sword if 3 was actually a good skill instead of a buggy PoS, but a couple thing happen here. One, no more BF spikes with imob when it hits right away unless you sacrifice the mobility options. Two, we get an actual gap closer for runners besides blink.

In the context of WvW at least, I feel this is balanced because if you play a power build with a MH sword, it’s already completely at your own peril in the current meta. We also have no options for runners in MH sword set besides blink because skill 3 is so buggy and unreliable for anything other than essentially melee range on flat terrain.

Had they “fixed” this bug at release, we could have had the discussion of how awful iLeap is over a year ago.

The old ileap added considerable depth to mesmer play, the change removes it and nerfs mh sword. Was sword in need of a nerf? Was anyone complaining about swap? Is there any downside to keeping it as was, looking at the state of the game right now??

If not, revert the change. If yes, then tell us what it’s supposed to accomplish. And fix some real bugs, please…

blitzkrieg.2451:

It was never meant to be used as a teleport to avoid damage, stop trying to make it out like it was. It’s meant to be a lockdown mechanism via immobilization and gap closer because sword is a close range weapon, that’s the skill’s intent and that’s what it was mechanically designed for by the devs.

You keep saying this, but the truth is no one knows what they originally intended…because they never told us. If you have some source, feel free to post, otherwise stop making unfounded assertions.

a.) Many tooltips only give the basic description; you have to work out for yourself how they really act under different situations. There was nothing obviously “broken” about swap; if it wasn’t also meant to be used defensively, why does swap break stuns? Why can you phase retreat up a cliff?

b.) Sometimes they change the skill to match the tooltip, other times they update the tooltip. No way to tell what they intended from the tip…

c.) At this point, 2 years later, their original intent hardly matters. This is how it has been, and any change to ileap should be treated as a design decision.

Linda Shors.5629:

The old ileap added considerable depth to mesmer play, the change removes it and nerfs mh sword. Was sword in need of a nerf? Was anyone complaining about swap? Is there any downside to keeping it as was, looking at the state of the game right now??

If not, revert the change. If yes, then tell us what it’s supposed to accomplish. And fix some real bugs, please…

blitzkrieg.2451:

It was never meant to be used as a teleport to avoid damage, stop trying to make it out like it was. It’s meant to be a lockdown mechanism via immobilization and gap closer because sword is a close range weapon, that’s the skill’s intent and that’s what it was mechanically designed for by the devs.

You keep saying this, but the truth is no one knows what they originally intended…because they never told us. If you have some source, feel free to post, otherwise stop making unfounded assertions.

a.) Many tooltips only give the basic description; you have to work out for yourself how they really act under different situations. There was nothing obviously “broken” about swap; if it wasn’t also meant to be used defensively, why does swap break stuns? Why can you phase retreat up a cliff?

b.) Sometimes they change the skill to match the tooltip, other times they update the tooltip. No way to tell what they intended from the tip…

c.) At this point, 2 years later, their original intent hardly matters. This is how it has been, and any change to ileap should be treated as a design decision.

The tooltips clearly tell you what the skill was intended for. You switch places with your clone, but if the clone is dead, who are you switching places with? You can’t switch with something that has been destroyed because it no longer exists. This is why they fixed it. It’s not rocket science.

For your #3 point, I find it funny because for a year and a half, empathic bond didn’t actually transfer conditions to your pet when it was supposed to for rangers. For guardians Pure Of voice removed more conditions than it should have and was fixed. Thief’s trait from acro gave fury / might and swiftness randomly when it wasn’t supposed to. The list goes on really.. All fixed, all got backlash, bug fixes occur randomly and sometimes a year+ after they’ve been known. It’s anet’s silly and kittenty way of dealing with bugs. They just never seem to fix bugs that hurt the class detrminetally at all or a 30+ list of mesmer bugs post wouldn’t exist. Honestly though, bugs exist with all classes, if you go to any profession forum you’ll find a bug list as deep as the mesmer one. This isn’t anything new, I’m sorry that it occurred because I ran shatter for months and I used this sometimes to avoid damage, but I knew it was a bug and knew it would be fixed just a matter of when.

It’s not the end of the world.

blitzkrieg.2451:

The tooltips clearly tell you what the skill was intended for.

Yes…the mythical infallible tooltips that are corrected and changed and modified in droves every time there’s a patch. Yes, these are definitely things we should be basing opinions off of.

DaShi.1368:

Had they “fixed” this bug at release, we could have had the discussion of how awful iLeap is over a year ago.

actually we had this discussion before Launch… when it wasn’t working..

Fay.2357:

blitzkrieg.2451:

The tooltips clearly tell you what the skill was intended for.

Yes…the mythical infallible tooltips that are corrected and changed and modified in droves every time there’s a patch. Yes, these are definitely things we should be basing opinions off of.

Eh, skill facts such as target # counts, ranges, dmg modifications etc are added to tooltips but hardly ever reworded entirely like this would have been if it was intended by the developers. Sorry, but yes, I would judge what the skill’s intention was based on the tool-tip description – that’s why there’s a description there.

But all in all, really there’s nothing else to say … It got bug fixed, quit whining and adapt.

blitzkrieg.2451:

Eh, skill facts such as target # counts, ranges, dmg modifications etc are added to tooltips but hardly ever reworded entirely like this would have been if it was intended by the developers. Sorry, but yes, I would judge what the skill’s intention was based on the tool-tip description – that’s why there’s a description there.

But all in all, really there’s nothing else to say … It got bug fixed, quit whining and adapt.

Not that I’m going to argue with you here Blitz but here’s were your infallible “white knight” argument and stance completely fall apart..

Taken from the Wiki’s update notes from July 1st. Important notes are bold.

Ranger

Updated skill facts to include the number of targets for various skills.
Updated pet skill facts to include the number of targets for various skills.
Entangle.png
Entangle: Updated the description to better match its functionality.
Signet of Renewal.png
Signet of Renewal: Added a radius skill fact.
Quicksand.png
Quicksand:
Corrected the order of condition skill facts to match similar skills.
Updated the effect for this skill when used under water to better match its area of effect.
Sun Spirit.png
Sun Spirit: Fixed the description of the spirit buff to remove the might on hit chance.
Winter’s Bite.png
Winter’s Bite: Fixed the description and icon of the pet buff to better match its skill functionality.
Drake:
Bite (drake).png
Bite: Updated the animation to be a bite attack instead of a tail whip when under water.
Coral Shot.png
Coral Shot: Added a pierces skill fact.

I’ll just leave this here.

And, if you were still confused..

TL;DR
Your argument is now invalid, carry on Fay.

Might as well read warrior leap skills. They meant to leap ON target. Not anywhere warrior want. So. Fix warriors. Right? They shouldnt be able to use their leaps and wirls to run away!

yes please fix warrior’s leap skills. 99.99% of warriors will no longer be able to escape combat like a kitten.

Sergoros.4398:

Might as well read warrior leap skills. They meant to leap ON target. Not anywhere warrior want. So. Fix warriors. Right? They shouldnt be able to use their leaps and wirls to run away!

Very much want that. Or rather I’d like a global change that leap/charge type skills always need a target. You can only use them to escape if you got a distant target to click on, basically.

Carighan.6758:

Sergoros.4398:

Might as well read warrior leap skills. They meant to leap ON target. Not anywhere warrior want. So. Fix warriors. Right? They shouldnt be able to use their leaps and wirls to run away!

Very much want that. Or rather I’d like a global change that leap/charge type skills always need a target. You can only use them to escape if you got a distant target to click on, basically.

Or just give them all the RTL treatment. If it applies to one, it applies to all.

In case you didn’t notice, this thread is called Discussion: iLeap [Rework]. It is about rework of the current skill and not about whether the “fix” was justified or not. blitzkrieg is doing his/her best in entering all threads on the subject and making the same arguments in an attempt to start flaming/derail them; if you wish to discuss the fix, please use this thread, or this thread, or this thread if you have more info on the bugginess of this skill.

This thread is intended for developers to see and collect ideas, and if it’s littered with the same debates, it will eventually get closed down, forgotten or ignored.

Fay.2357:

Carighan.6758:

Sergoros.4398:

Might as well read warrior leap skills. They meant to leap ON target. Not anywhere warrior want. So. Fix warriors. Right? They shouldnt be able to use their leaps and wirls to run away!

Very much want that. Or rather I’d like a global change that leap/charge type skills always need a target. You can only use them to escape if you got a distant target to click on, basically.

Or just give them all the RTL treatment. If it applies to one, it applies to all.

Ileap is worse, so better choose ileap for “better” treatment. If not in range > skill does nothing and goes on cd

Sergoros.4398:

Signet of midnight have quite useful active, but useless passive. Might as well change on granting aegis to clone/phants.

No, it should definitely be a new skill. If we got the exact same signet I kinda rambled out there, Midnight would actually synergize semi-decently by extending the gained boon duration(provided said boons actually got a respectable duration, of course) – but now we’re getting a little further off the point of iLeap.

@Lishtenbird: Any thoughts on pursuing this conversation, about adding additional traits and skills to justify the iLeap change?

just change it so the mesmer “leaps” at the target like warrior sword. imob on landing. then if you hit the button again you return to your starting point leaving a clone where you were. a shadow return. stunbreak on return. and useable with no target just like every other leap in game.

I would change it so the illusion “leaps” like guard greatsword leap or warrior leap so it’s faster and/or works on wonky terrain. OR change the illusion to more of a ghosty animation of a clone running towards the target, if the animation gets to the target it spawns the clone then, swap as usual. That way they get rid of the whole pathing issue all together.

Personally, I don’t feel that iLeap needs a total rework. The functionality (mobility, gap closer) is all right but the mechanic (dashing clone, swap bound to clone) is the real issue.

The ability to swap places without the clone being alive somewhat made up for the buggy #3.1 skill (not working at all or the clone getting stuck). With the fix the skill has not only become unreliable but also very hard to pull off since clones die so fast. I don’t think this is a nerf to Mesmers overall but it certainly makes Sword MH less appealing and thus limits build diversity.

If ANet changed anything they should change the mechanic. The dash will never work properly. The clone could also need a 1s blurr so the Mesmer actually has a chance to swap. I can see two solutions.

• The clone leaps at the target
• The clone blinks to the target

Technically I prefer the first since the skill is a leap. Designwise I prefer the blink. A blink is way more efficient at confusing your foes and that is supposed to be the main theme of the Mesmer anyway.

Swish.2463:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Eh, skill facts such as target # counts, ranges, dmg modifications etc are added to tooltips but hardly ever reworded entirely like this would have been if it was intended by the developers. Sorry, but yes, I would judge what the skill’s intention was based on the tool-tip description – that’s why there’s a description there.

But all in all, really there’s nothing else to say … It got bug fixed, quit whining and adapt.

Not that I’m going to argue with you here Blitz but here’s were your infallible “white knight” argument and stance completely fall apart..

Taken from the Wiki’s update notes from July 1st. Important notes are bold.

Ranger

Updated skill facts to include the number of targets for various skills.
Updated pet skill facts to include the number of targets for various skills.
Entangle.png
Entangle: Updated the description to better match its functionality.
Signet of Renewal.png
Signet of Renewal: Added a radius skill fact.
Quicksand.png
Quicksand:
Corrected the order of condition skill facts to match similar skills.
Updated the effect for this skill when used under water to better match its area of effect.
Sun Spirit.png
Sun Spirit: Fixed the description of the spirit buff to remove the might on hit chance.
Winter’s Bite.png
Winter’s Bite: Fixed the description and icon of the pet buff to better match its skill functionality.
Drake:
Bite (drake).png
Bite: Updated the animation to be a bite attack instead of a tail whip when under water.
Coral Shot.png
Coral Shot: Added a pierces skill fact.

I’ll just leave this here.

And, if you were still confused..

TL;DR
Your argument is now invalid, carry on Fay.

Yes, you know what they edited out Swish?

Entangling Roots (Old): Entangle your foe. They are immobile until the vines are destroyed.
Entangling Roots (New): Entangle foes around you with vines. Entangled foes bleed and are immobilized until the vines are destroyed.

They added the duration fact to Entangling Roots (20 seconds) and adjusted the aoe description, but it always showed the number of targets it intentionally is supposed to hit and it always showed the immobilized and bleed conditions correctly in the tool-tip. Lol, exactly as intended….

Winter’s Bite (Old): Throw an axe to chill your foe. Your pet’s next attack inflicts weakness.
Winter’s Bite (New): Throw an axe to chill your foe. Your pet’s next attack inflicts weakness.

They added a skill fact to the weakness part that says (Unrestricted). They also adjusted the graphic for the skill – didn’t even change it completelythey just adjusted it. They literally didn’t touch the description, only the skill fact in the weakness part of the tool-tip.

—

I think instead of just reading patch notes you should know the classes you’re talking about. You make yourself look like an idiot.

As I said, if they intended it to work like it did , they would change the tool-tip , not the skill and bug fix it. If you want to show definitive proof in the tool-tip anywhere that shows they intended iLeap to work as a stunbreak and teleport AFTER the initial clone has died (how do you swap places with something that no longer exists?) then by all means, let me know. Until then, your argument is invalid and yes…. Fay you can carry on now

blitzkrieg.2451:

Swish.2463:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Eh, skill facts such as target # counts, ranges, dmg modifications etc are added to tooltips but hardly ever reworded entirely like this would have been if it was intended by the developers. Sorry, but yes, I would judge what the skill’s intention was based on the tool-tip description – that’s why there’s a description there.

But all in all, really there’s nothing else to say … It got bug fixed, quit whining and adapt.

Not that I’m going to argue with you here Blitz but here’s were your infallible “white knight” argument and stance completely fall apart..

Taken from the Wiki’s update notes from July 1st. Important notes are bold.

Ranger

Updated skill facts to include the number of targets for various skills.
Updated pet skill facts to include the number of targets for various skills.
Entangle.png
Entangle: Updated the description to better match its functionality.
Signet of Renewal.png
Signet of Renewal: Added a radius skill fact.
Quicksand.png
Quicksand:
Corrected the order of condition skill facts to match similar skills.
Updated the effect for this skill when used under water to better match its area of effect.
Sun Spirit.png
Sun Spirit: Fixed the description of the spirit buff to remove the might on hit chance.
Winter’s Bite.png
Winter’s Bite: Fixed the description and icon of the pet buff to better match its skill functionality.
Drake:
Bite (drake).png
Bite: Updated the animation to be a bite attack instead of a tail whip when under water.
Coral Shot.png
Coral Shot: Added a pierces skill fact.

I’ll just leave this here.

And, if you were still confused..

TL;DR
Your argument is now invalid, carry on Fay.

Yes, you know what they edited out Swish?

Entangling Roots (Old): Entangle foes around you with vines. Entangled foes bleed and are immobilized until the vines are destroyed.
Entangling Roots (New): Entangle foes around you with vines. Entangles foes bleed and are immobilized until the vines are destroyed.

They added the duration fact to Entangling Roots (20 seconds) – that’s it.

Winter’s Bite (Old): Throw an axe to chill your foe. Your pet’s next attack inflicts weakness.
Winter’s Bite (New): Throw an axe to chill your foe. Your pet’s next attack inflicts weakness.

They added a skill fact to the weakness part that says (Unrestricted). They also adjusted the graphic for the skill – didn’t even change it completelythey just adjusted it.

—

So what exactly in the description did they change?

I think instead of just reading patch notes you should know the classes you’re talking about.

As I said, if they intended it to work like it did , they would change the tool-tip , not the skill and bug fix it.

he even pointed out the thing he meant by adding it like this ._.

Wyrden.4713:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Swish.2463:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Eh, skill facts such as target # counts, ranges, dmg modifications etc are added to tooltips but hardly ever reworded entirely like this would have been if it was intended by the developers. Sorry, but yes, I would judge what the skill’s intention was based on the tool-tip description – that’s why there’s a description there.

But all in all, really there’s nothing else to say … It got bug fixed, quit whining and adapt.

Not that I’m going to argue with you here Blitz but here’s were your infallible “white knight” argument and stance completely fall apart..

Taken from the Wiki’s update notes from July 1st. Important notes are bold.

Ranger

Updated skill facts to include the number of targets for various skills.
Updated pet skill facts to include the number of targets for various skills.
Entangle.png
Entangle: Updated the description to better match its functionality.
Signet of Renewal.png
Signet of Renewal: Added a radius skill fact.
Quicksand.png
Quicksand:
Corrected the order of condition skill facts to match similar skills.
Updated the effect for this skill when used under water to better match its area of effect.
Sun Spirit.png
Sun Spirit: Fixed the description of the spirit buff to remove the might on hit chance.
Winter’s Bite.png
Winter’s Bite: Fixed the description and icon of the pet buff to better match its skill functionality.
Drake:
Bite (drake).png
Bite: Updated the animation to be a bite attack instead of a tail whip when under water.
Coral Shot.png
Coral Shot: Added a pierces skill fact.

I’ll just leave this here.

And, if you were still confused..

TL;DR
Your argument is now invalid, carry on Fay.

Yes, you know what they edited out Swish?

Entangling Roots (Old): Entangle foes around you with vines. Entangled foes bleed and are immobilized until the vines are destroyed.
Entangling Roots (New): Entangle foes around you with vines. Entangles foes bleed and are immobilized until the vines are destroyed.

They added the duration fact to Entangling Roots (20 seconds) – that’s it.

Winter’s Bite (Old): Throw an axe to chill your foe. Your pet’s next attack inflicts weakness.
Winter’s Bite (New): Throw an axe to chill your foe. Your pet’s next attack inflicts weakness.

They added a skill fact to the weakness part that says (Unrestricted). They also adjusted the graphic for the skill – didn’t even change it completelythey just adjusted it.

—

So what exactly in the description did they change?

I think instead of just reading patch notes you should know the classes you’re talking about.

As I said, if they intended it to work like it did , they would change the tool-tip , not the skill and bug fix it.

he even pointed out the thing he meant by adding it like this ._.

I adjusted my reply

We can literally argue tool-tip semantics all day long. The point is , and the reality is, they did not intend iLeap to work in the manner that it was being used for. It was a bug, and as such it was fixed. Arguing about it at this point in time makes no difference to what will happen at the outcome of the argument. He tried to pull some ranger description updates in which the skills weren’t even updated in the way he was trying to place an argument, they just specifically defined that the skill was aoe when it already had skill facts for aoe and it being aoe is working as intended and the other skill he mentioned literally wasn’t even a description change. He tried to say relate these minimal updates 1 being a skill fact update and 1 being a confirmation of existing functionality to iLeap which wasn’t intended to be a teleport and stun break after the clone died. These are literally different scenarios and his argument , once broken down like this becomes very invalid and a dumb way to approach it. Sorry , but it was a very poor attempt at trying to portray a reasonable argument, but it really just makes no sense as the 2 situations are completely different. If guild wars 2 came out and adjusted the tool-tip to say “Swap places with your clone, swapping works after your clone has died” then yes, you’d have something concrete and we wouldn’t even be having this conversation/argument. But they didn’t, they fixed it, because it wasn’t intended for that. So here we are…. What should really be argued is why this was fixed when there’s 30+ negative bugs that hinder the class that have been mentioned for a very long time, yet the one that gets chosen is a bug that helps the class after 2 years.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Carighan.6758:

How does it work for you right now with charged skills then? I mean, on other chars, we don’t have any I’m aware of.

I remember some skills with the effects firing off at the end of the channel – some golem skills from Mario IIRC, fire breath when transformed into a drake. All those require a full channel though and do not provide another effects if the channel ends sooner.

Now I actually remember that scepter 2 works like it. If you press the skill twice, it uses the 2nd spell and cancels the first. So, say, sending your clone to leap on channel end but leaping yourself on 2nd click instead sounds like a neat idea.

Kadj.6725:

@Lishtenbird: Any thoughts on pursuing this conversation, about adding additional traits and skills to justify the iLeap change?

ANet’s stance, as far as I understand, is that only GM traits will be added (and made rather useless to not to have issues with balancing and build diversification). So all we can do is adjust the traits we have.

Blade Training sounds like a right place to make adjustments. Maybe, say,

Increased precision while wielding a one-handed sword or a spear. Reduces the recharge on sword and spear skills. Swap can be performed to clone’s position after its death.

As for beta Leap… Wow, I really wish we got a normal leap like that – probably with swapping back to your clone on Swap. I got so used to guardian’s GS leap now and I miss this mobility of another “slow” class a lot when I’m back on my mesmer.

I am admittedly a very new mesmer (just recently hit 80) and pretty new to GW2 overall, so take that for what you want. It seems to me that the very design of iLeap is not very mesmer-y, even without the bugs and such coming into the discussion. We are supposed to be about misdirection, diversion, control, and being slippery through stealth, dodges, teleports, etc. When you summon an iLeap clone to the target and then swap with it there is no question who the real mesmer is. You’ve just given up the entire “misdirection” thing while also pulling one of your clones out of the fight.

What if when we used iLeap we immediately teleported to the target and summoned a clone and then Swap would work like the thief Infiltrator’s Return and return us to the spot where we initially used iLeap while immobilizing enemies around where we teleported from? This would keep the misdirection flavor, keep our clone in the fight (for shatters or on death traits), and give main hand sword an escape option similar to staff.

What are your thoughts?