Guild Wars 2

I’ll start out by saying that I don’t have an issue with the change to not being able to swap with a non-existent clone. You can’t shatter a non-existent clone either.

I do agree that the pathing (and it’s range) need some work. Obviously one fix, per the OPs suggestion, to fix pathing would be to have the clone spawn at the target’s location. However, that does not fix pathing issues when the clone runs back to the target after the swap takes place (if it survives that long, which sometimes it does).

An additional suggestion might be to simply make this a projectile skill similar to magnetic leap. Fling out a phantom sword, on hit it applies cripple. For up to 5 seconds, gain the ability to leap to your foe. On the leap, you still apply the immobilize. However we lose 2 things here, the vulnerability that is stacked by the clone’s attacks, and the ability to shatter the clone (again, if it lives that long). This could be compensated some by adding some straight damage (compensates the missed shatter) to the initial projectile, and adding a basic 5 stacks of vulnerability (compensates the removal of the clones attacks) in addition to the cripple, but would people be happy with it? Some people might actually want the clone the skill generates for additional misdirection purposes.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

However, that does not fix pathing issues when the clone runs back to the target after the swap takes place (if it survives that long, which sometimes it does).

Yes, the problem will still exist, but honestly, I do not really care how long it takes the clone to get back to the target after I’ve used it for the main skill. And it will take the same time as for any other clones, dodge clones included.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

An additional suggestion might be to simply make this a projectile skill similar to magnetic leap.

That sounds like GS2 a lot. Not that it’s a bad thing, though. It actually creates the same clone on target, but lets people see it coming. Maybe the projectile can look like an actual clone/phantasm just to leave the spirit of the skill.

Veruah.5302:

What if when we used iLeap we immediately teleported to the target and summoned a clone and then Swap would work like the thief Infiltrator’s Return and return us to the spot where we initially used iLeap while immobilizing enemies around where we teleported from? This would keep the misdirection flavor, keep our clone in the fight (for shatters or on death traits), and give main hand sword an escape option similar to staff.

Would make more sense than the current useless thing, I say. Even if it works the way round than as of now, it’s still better than a clone which rarely reaches the target or a clone which reaches the boss just to die instantly. Instant teleport sounds fine, but a war/guard leap can be better because 1) it adds mobility to a very slow class with broken swiftness and without target requirement 2) and at the same time lets your target see you coming, as it is now.

If we add a Counter skill similar to what Carighan suggested, we may get even more misdirection and higher skill tricks:

• You start channeling Leap. If you click the skill again while channeling (use “counter” skill), you leap at the target and immobilize foes and a clone is created at your position. Now, you can use Swap to change places with your clone.
• You start channeling Leap and let it finish. A clone is created and leaps at your target just as you would’ve, immobilizing foes. Now, you can use Swap to change places with your clone.

I have an interesting idea. Press 3 and a 1s countdown starts after which a clone spawns and leaps to your target. If you actually tap 3 within that 1s countdown, YOU leap on the target leaving a clone behind.

Something like a combination of pre-launch #2 and #3.

Jackums.3496:

No drastic overhaul of the skill’s mechanic is necessary. Just make the clone spawn on the target rather than running to it. No cooldown changes, no clone immunity, no ICD prior to iSwap. Just remove the inconsistency of the pathing by turning it into a teleport.

Problem solved.

This.

There’s no “counter” if the clone just spawns at the target. Right now, Sword #3’s clone moves in a very distinctive motion that the enemy can see and take action. Doubtful this would fly.

I also think that something needs to be done to ensure the clone stays alive long enough to reach the target. Its really not fair that a weapon skill can be negated so easily.

Lanfear’s post gave me an idea. Why not make it work like Mirror Blade? You throw your sword and IF you hit the enemy a clone is spawned. And now you can then “Swap” with the clone. Where Mirror Blade animation is a GS rolling end over end, the Sword’s animation can be horizontal like a Frisbee.

Now you have the sword animation that gives the enemy a warning to counter it, and hopefully removes the pathing issues. EDIT: This also might help with the clone survival, since the sword won’t take any damage “on the way” to the target. And the clone will be full health lasting longer to allow the swap.

Throwing an oversized kunai knife. Omg I so want that!

frifox.5283:

Throwing an oversized kunai knife. Omg I so want that!

dito

You know what?
I just remember that most professions have skill like OLD mesmer ileap.

Elementalist dagger 3 if it hits can be delayed.
Thief also have a similar skill.

Last patch made ileap way inferior to counterparts.

There is no need to change the skill, just revert the change and it becomes as it should be.

Jackums.3496:

You mean like the Thief’s Infiltrator Strike with no cast time that can be repeatedly used due to Initiative, on the already-most-mobile-in-combat profession in the game?

Perhaps Steal is worth mentioning, too?

Just that something is ok in context X doesn’t make it ok in context Y.

To compare, a nuclear chain reaction is quite intentional in a nuclear power plant, but somewhat problematic if it happens right in front of you and you are Louis Slotin.

Likewise, a teleport-to-target attack isn’t comparable when it is on different classes. It could be, but only if everything else about these classes is also identical or functionally identical.

Its been awhile, but I remember in beta that iLeap worked differently. I believe the Mesmer would teleport to the target first, leaving a clone behind and then could swap back. It was changed to the clone “leaping” to the target to provide counterplay.

Mesmer’s used to be able to instantly cast “Into the Void” after laying down Temporal Curtain, but people complained(about no counterplay) and now there’s a 1 sec delay.

Scepter’s block used to be quicker, but now there’s a small delay after the block before the clone spawns.

Other professions have also had similar changes. Warrior’s hammer/rifle skills have changed with longer cast times/animations to allow more counterplay, for example.

[rant]Why the KITTEN theives get a free ride when it come to “no counterplay”, I have no freaking idea. I don’t like it and I don’t understand why ANet continues to allow it.

But for some reason even in beta, ANet was really worried that Mesmer’s could totally “shutdown” another player. Even though other classes CAN and DO knock us/fear us fwd, backwd, and every other direction all while doing nasty condition damage until we’re dust. “But heaven forbid if a Mesmer can actually cause a single skill to go on cooldown for more than 5 seconds.” [/rant]

Anyway, still have to consider “counterplay” in our design, even though it’s not a consideration in others.

Thieves have plenty of counterplay, you’re just not good enough to know what it is yet. Another thing, mesmers are built a specific way in this game, thieves counter how mesmers are built in this game completely because they can cloak and dagger and the steal is immense.. But cloak and dagger is only good against this type of play. In order to change how thieves counter mesmers would be asking to change how both the classes work entirely. Some classes completely counter others, that’s nothing new in this game.

Stealth has no counter play other than AOEing a random spot and hoping you hit the target By design, stealth in this game is extremely flawed with very little to no counterplay whatsoever. If you’re complaining about counter play whilst also playing a class that uses stealth. Then I really don’t know what else to say.

Jackums.3496:

Carighan.6758:

Jackums.3496:

You mean like the Thief’s Infiltrator Strike with no cast time that can be repeatedly used due to Initiative, on the already-most-mobile-in-combat profession in the game?

Perhaps Steal is worth mentioning, too?

Just that something is ok in context X doesn’t make it ok in context Y.

No, but in this “X” and “Y” context, it is.

The Mesmer would not even be remotely close to over-powered if iLeap was a teleport. Please enlighten me as to how that would be problematic. The only spec that would benefit significantly from such a change would be shatter, which is mediocre right now in every aspect of the game and could use some buffs, anyway.

I think iLeap teleport would be very good. The one problem with mesmers is their builds are great in some areas of the game, horrible in others. PU for example is great in WvW for roaming and dueling and good for dueling in PvP. It’s complete kitten in tPvP and GvG in WvW. Shatter is good in tPvP and GvG , complete kitten in 1on1s (it’s doable, but it’s really not meant for it and anything with evasion and condi uptime will decimate it without even trying, example: bunker condi rangers). How do you solve this without making certain specs completely over the top in certain areas of the game? iLeap teleport would make builds like PU op, but it does bring viability to setup guaranteed burst for shatter specs (which need buffs atm).

Lol no offense, they’ve turned this game into kitten with horrid balancing so even trying to take this game seriously enough anymore is pointless so even caring about anet balance at this point is just dumb. PvE will always be priority #1 because that’s where the money and demand comes from and in this game with no trinity, you can roll up anything and be decent in PvE – even rangers. PvP cares have long since gone once they realized they couldn’t turn Gw2 into esports and make further money off of it and WvW is just another game mode for casuals to run around and bang on buildings and chest pump server pride and has no esports value/potential – not even GvGs.

Jackums.3496:

No, but in this “X” and “Y” context, it is.

The Mesmer would not even be remotely close to over-powered if iLeap was a teleport. Please enlighten me as to how that would be problematic. The only spec that would benefit significantly from such a change would be shatter, which is mediocre right now in every aspect of the game and could use some buffs, anyway.

Add a half second delay to the spawned clone performing its cripple attack, and do away with the part of the attack that has the most pathing problems(the quick run). Between that and the cast time, people can counter it exactly the same way as they do now.

SlimChance.6593:

Mesmer’s used to be able to instantly cast “Into the Void” after laying down Temporal Curtain, but people complained(about no counterplay) and now there’s a 1 sec delay.

Given the other changes at the time, I was under the impression that that wasn’t about counterplay as much as it was about people always destroying the curtain early due to an accidental extra keypress. If I recall, this was the same update they added a slight delay to using downed skills when entering Downed, and same for a couple other skills. The counterplay was just a bonus.

The change to Into the Void was for counterplay reasons. I know there were lots of threads from players saying that there was no way to know when the Pull/Push was coming. It just happened, as soon as the curtain was there you were pulled. It could be that quick. So the delay was added.

But we’re getting off topic here. But its an example of how when theorycrafting a change to a skill, you need to consider the reason other skills were changed.

Still like my throwing sword idea. It eliminates the pathing issue, and makes the skill behave like it should.

I really like the idea of me leaping. I’d do it the way that I leap, later I can swap. If I hold down the button, instead the clone appears and leaps, and then I swap when releasing the button.

Carighan.6758:

I really like the idea of me leaping. I’d do it the way that I leap, later I can swap. If I hold down the button, instead the clone appears and leaps, and then I swap when releasing the button.

I don’t believe the ‘if activating the skill in a different way, do something different’ functionality exists in the game in any form. If you want ideas to even be considered, they shouldn’t require large development of new systems.

that is the beta version of blurred frenzy. maybe they can stick it on a button
(not the holding button down thing) the you leap instead of the clone.

Fay.2357:

I don’t believe the ‘if activating the skill in a different way, do something different’ functionality exists in the game in any form. If you want ideas to even be considered, they shouldn’t require large development of new systems.

It could work if it were a charge-up skills, with those circles around the number. If you release early (or tap) you jump, if you charge full, spawn a clone and let it leap.

Fay.2357:

Carighan.6758:

I really like the idea of me leaping. I’d do it the way that I leap, later I can swap. If I hold down the button, instead the clone appears and leaps, and then I swap when releasing the button.

I don’t believe the ‘if activating the skill in a different way, do something different’ functionality exists in the game in any form. If you want ideas to even be considered, they shouldn’t require large development of new systems.

But sword 4 and scepter 2 work in more or less similar manner. One effect on click and hold, another effect on click and click.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Fay.2357:

Carighan.6758:

I really like the idea of me leaping. I’d do it the way that I leap, later I can swap. If I hold down the button, instead the clone appears and leaps, and then I swap when releasing the button.

I don’t believe the ‘if activating the skill in a different way, do something different’ functionality exists in the game in any form. If you want ideas to even be considered, they shouldn’t require large development of new systems.

But sword 4 and scepter 2 work in more or less similar manner. One effect on click and hold, another effect on click and click.

It’s not click and hold though. It’s 1 click, activate, a 2nd click optional activate. There’s no holding involved.