Guild Wars 2

As the subject says: Do mesmers have enough AOE to reliably tag mobs in large-scale DE’s?

Please support your opinion with concrete examples.

Thank you!

If you’re talking about Orr DEs with 50 players, the answer is:

Mesmers can do it better than Necros and Thieves. About on par with Rangers. Worse than Eles, Engis, and Guardians. However, Mesmers will have to run a more specific build to accomplish it (Illusory Persona Shatters).

Don’t know about Warrs. I expect Warrs to be highly variable depending on the specific DE (if they can cleave melee on a single spot, they should be OK).

I typically have no issues with tagging between Elasticity and shatters w/ IPersona.

Short answer: No

Long answer: With a very specific build built around iZerker/iWarden and illusory persona with phantasm damage bonuses, shatter bonuses, insane reflexes and the clone spawning utility skills the Mesmer can achieve competitive DE tagging by spamming what few AoE’s we have, however the build will be pretty rubbish outside of dynamic events and useless in dungeons and even then it is merely “competitive” you still won’t hold a candle to most other classes being played proficiently.

Not as well as others, and I’m not too sure about in massive groups. However, in groups of up to ~15-20 players I’ve done ok.

Edit: By “ok”, I mean just that. OK. Not good, not bad. Very middle of the pack.

I run a 20/20/0/0/30 shatter spam build using sword + focus. For DE mobs I don’t switch out. The sword can hit 3 mobs and the shatters can hit several. Spawn clones, run in, shatter and start hitting sword 2 + sword 1.

By the way, this build does just fine solo and in dungeons.

Better than Necro’s and Thieves??? What are you smoking. Those 2 are probably the best.

however the build will be pretty rubbish outside of dynamic events

No. There is no other response to your random statement than “no”.

Better than Necro’s and Thieves??? What are you smoking. Those 2 are probably the best.

Uh, no. Guardians, Eles, and Engis are the best, not in that order. All other classes are inferior to those 3 at Orr DE farming.

Thieves are poor because their AOE has a travel time and is not spammable due to Initiative limitations. Necros I have no idea, but some players who know how to actually tag on a Mesmer say that Mesmers are better, so I’m going with that.

as someone said before.. we can tag mobs with a shatter build… but thats it.. we have one aoe with staff… and then clone/phan shatters that do pitiful dps.. Sometimes, even with shatter you cant do enough damage to get credit for the kills.

I know that the premise seems to be if you hit something at least once you get credit, but the truth is you have to do enough damage before it dies to get credit and xp. In large scale events, mesmers just dont have the aoe dps to tag a full group for credit on most.

The most i can tag in a large scale invasion event is maybe 1-3 out of 12 incoming. It is enough to get me credit for the event yes… but, we need cash too and its almost impossible to kill in large events efficiently to get any drops.

The ONLY way a mesmer can tag an entire group is if you are there as they spawn… pop your phan berserker, he happens to spin through the middle tagging them all (*becuse the direction they spin seems to be totally random) and then immediatly hitting shatter for confusion damage. Then.. we have to wait for those skills to reset (missing 1 spawn) and trying again.

Staff aoe is mainly a debuff field.. almost no dps so thats only an option if scepter/focus or Greatsword skills are down depending on which you use.

I have played elementalist and all other classes except warrior and thief, so i cant count on those 2 classes…

but.. lets take elementalist for example as a comparison.

but.. lets take elementalist for example as a comparison.In a group they can pop meteor shower, drop a greatsword and use 5 (the aoe) and also pop a signet of storms and have 3 HEAVY aoes going at the same time. They can also drop a ice bow and use that AOE if they are fast enough and call a pet for 30 seconds. Not counting the aoe from thier regular skills like air skill 1, earths 2 aoes and water even has an AOE bomb.

but.. lets take elementalist for example as a comparison.In a group they can pop meteor shower, drop a greatsword and use 5 (the aoe) and also pop a signet of storms and have 3 HEAVY aoes going at the same time. They can also drop a ice bow and use that AOE if they are fast enough and call a pet for 30 seconds. Not counting the aoe from thier regular skills like air skill 1, earths 2 aoes and water even has an AOE bomb.Rangers have traps they can throw, and a volley along with multi shots etc.

but.. lets take elementalist for example as a comparison.In a group they can pop meteor shower, drop a greatsword and use 5 (the aoe) and also pop a signet of storms and have 3 HEAVY aoes going at the same time. They can also drop a ice bow and use that AOE if they are fast enough and call a pet for 30 seconds. Not counting the aoe from thier regular skills like air skill 1, earths 2 aoes and water even has an AOE bomb.Rangers have traps they can throw, and a volley along with multi shots etc.Guardians have staff aoe out the wazoo along with the spin of greatsword that does 10x any aoe a messer can do in 1 hit.

but.. lets take elementalist for example as a comparison.In a group they can pop meteor shower, drop a greatsword and use 5 (the aoe) and also pop a signet of storms and have 3 HEAVY aoes going at the same time. They can also drop a ice bow and use that AOE if they are fast enough and call a pet for 30 seconds. Not counting the aoe from thier regular skills like air skill 1, earths 2 aoes and water even has an AOE bomb.Rangers have traps they can throw, and a volley along with multi shots etc.Guardians have staff aoe out the wazoo along with the spin of greatsword that does 10x any aoe a messer can do in 1 hit.Yes we may be able to tag multiple mobs in events, enough to get credit for the event if we’re lucky.. but as for tagging enough to get fair loot compared to the other classes.. it is impossible.

but.. lets take elementalist for example as a comparison.In a group they can pop meteor shower, drop a greatsword and use 5 (the aoe) and also pop a signet of storms and have 3 HEAVY aoes going at the same time. They can also drop a ice bow and use that AOE if they are fast enough and call a pet for 30 seconds. Not counting the aoe from thier regular skills like air skill 1, earths 2 aoes and water even has an AOE bomb.Rangers have traps they can throw, and a volley along with multi shots etc.Guardians have staff aoe out the wazoo along with the spin of greatsword that does 10x any aoe a messer can do in 1 hit.Yes we may be able to tag multiple mobs in events, enough to get credit for the event if we’re lucky.. but as for tagging enough to get fair loot compared to the other classes.. it is impossible.

PS. im sorry for the multiple copies of the paragraph in the last post… no clue why that happened

Ryuujin.8236:

Short answer: No

Long answer: With a very specific build built around iZerker/iWarden and illusory persona with phantasm damage bonuses, shatter bonuses, insane reflexes and the clone spawning utility skills the Mesmer can achieve competitive DE tagging by spamming what few AoE’s we have, however the build will be pretty rubbish outside of dynamic events and useless in dungeons and even then it is merely “competitive” you still won’t hold a candle to most other classes being played proficiently.

Uh, what? You don’t need a VERY specific build. IPersona helps, but a GS using 2 and 4 and shatters F1 and F2 does just fine. Running the build in my signature I have NO issues tagging and I do VERY well in dungeons. Also, running around with sword main hand spamming 1 is surprisingly effective as well when combined with blink and Sword 3.

Your link isn’t loading :/

Mesmer’s have a tonne of useful support skills that can be woven in to supplement their offence and defence without impacting combat effectiveness, dedicated shatter builds usually sacrifice them (Glamour masteries, warden’s feedback, debilitating dissipation etc) in favour of raw damage.

While such builds can do dungeons most players no matter how bad can “do” a dungeon if only by being carried. You’re doing a dis-service to your team and your class running pure DPS glass cannon pew-pewing, I may be wrong and you’ve come up with a trait configuration that combines support, survivability and shatter DPS as I can’t see your link, but that’s my experience and opinion.

20/0/0/20/30 is an easy hybrid build that picks up Warden’s feedback with the option of other minor stuff. If you really want to go more support, you can go 0/0/20/20/30, or higher/lower in Chaos or Inspiration for other traits. 20/20 will get you the weapon traits if you’re aiming for those, as well as the 15-point passives.

You don’t need a “build” to do Shatter damage in a DE. You need power-centric gear and IP. That leaves you 40 points to invest elsewhere. Not to mention the 25 minor in Illusion gives group Might. That’s pretty solid all by itself.

EasymodeX.4062:

however the build will be pretty rubbish outside of dynamic events

No. There is no other response to your random statement than “no”.

Better than Necro’s and Thieves??? What are you smoking. Those 2 are probably the best.

Uh, no. Guardians, Eles, and Engis are the best, not in that order. All other classes are inferior to those 3 at Orr DE farming.

Thieves are poor because their AOE has a travel time and is not spammable due to Initiative limitations. Necros I have no idea, but some players who know how to actually tag on a Mesmer say that Mesmers are better, so I’m going with that.

Thieves have caltrops and clusterbomb shotgun spam with signet to be nearly invincible. It’s incredible for tagging and aoe’ing things down.

The shortbow spam (and caltrops for the matter) are limited by resources so they can’t spam those continuously prior to the mobs actually spamming like Engis can with their AOE.

Also, there are rumors that may or may not be true about damage thresholds required to improve loot drop rates, where caltrops would be insufficient.

EasymodeX.4062:

The shortbow spam (and caltrops for the matter) are limited by resources so they can’t spam those continuously prior to the mobs actually spamming like Engis can with their AOE.

Also, there are rumors that may or may not be true about damage thresholds required to improve loot drop rates, where caltrops would be insufficient.

There is a damage threshold to count getting loot at all, in a massive DE farm you are unlikely with GS4 and shatter to meet that very often before everything is dead. Hell, most of the time the Zerker doesn’t even appear because his target is dead before he fully forms to do his spin.

I take my Elem out and I have about 50% of the corpses glowing at the end of an event, I take my Mesmer out and I might get 1 in 20 or so corpses. Warrior is better than my Mesmer, but nothing like my Elementalist or my Guardian, don’t have a Ranger, Necro or Thief to do the Orr farming to comment on them. Engineers appear to be very close to keeping up with my Elem when I’m side by side with one. They actually may do better.