Guild Wars 2

Mesmer’s have to have the strongest Downed state in the game outside of ranger underwater with successful pet lick or possibly the elementalist near a friendly tower door.

Phantasmal rogue is the hardest hitting of all the abilities in downed state. Hits harder than the giant bomb placed by engineers (although single target).

Your illusions and phantasms pre exisiting will still attack, though illusions are minimal dmg, they will be interrupting.

You will be confusing the person trying to recover/kill you.

You get to disappear for several seconds.

I know it is easy to find the right mesmer, but point for point, the mesmer is a little too strong against another player.

I think the clones should disappear on downed, and the phantasmal rogue’s damage should come down a little or be only 1 attack before going on CD again.

I also think ranger pets should stop rezzing if you manage to kill them in the process as well.

It’s not a “i win” button or anything. I just think it’s very powerful compared to most classes.

I think elementalists have the best downed state.

They can nerf phantasmal rogue to hell once they change deception so it doesn’t require a target. Then they can go on and nerf ele’s vapor form while they’re on it.

I don’t know… pRogue? Really? That thing which doesn’t actually walk behind the target, and takes ages to wait for the CD and then has a really slow cast?

Who lets you stay alive on the ground long enough to use that? O.o

Mesmer’s down state is pretty stupid imo. Even though I am using deception, I can still be hit with an ongoing stomp in an unfortunate circumstance. I rarely get hit with a phantasmal rogue from another player (They don’t have a chance to spawn it) nor do I ever get the chance to summon one myself.

What in the name of the Pale Tree are you smoking? We have the WORST downed state in the entire game! This is how I know people come on the mes forum just to troll. First off, our downed abilities are awful in WvW. Once you go down, your only hope is to hit number 2 (Deception) fast because the cast time on phantom rogue is so long that you’ll be dead before you get it off. Second, “Deception” should be retitled “Prolong the Humiliation”. It often will teleport you closer to the enemy line, and the stealth is so brief that you appear while folks are still dunking your icorpse. So they look around and go, “Oh… there he is. Let’s do it again.” If anything it allows you to experience your humiliating death twice. Not to mention the fact that deception stealth breaks on damage and chances are you’re already taking DOT dam, so it breaks immediately leaving you flailing like a fool. Engineer’s downed state was FAR superior. That bomb saved me many times.

If anything I want a mesmer downed ability entitled “Get it Over With” that allows you to commit suicide before your foes get to cap you and denies them a loot bag. That would be far better than the current situation.

I think ours is horrible. I never know where I am going to end up when I use 2, rogue is never up before I am dead, and 1 seems to never kill anything to get me a rally.

Also agree with the get it over with button lol I usually just let them kill me because there is no point.

Yeah #2 just prolongs the misery, and by the time you cast #3 chances are you’re close to death.

Number 1 only really shines underwater, where you can stack confusion ridiculously fast.

First, dirtyshame, I want to congratulate you for being able to take a critical look at mesmer powers and giving valid feedback on why you have formed an opinion. Even better, you have stated your reasoning in a very understandable and polite manner.

That being said, I disagree with you.

Let’s take a look at each power individually.

Mind Blast has one huge, glaring issue: confusion. While it’s arguably useful in pve as any enemy that downed us is likely to keep attacking, they don’t attack fast enough for confusion to make much of a difference. Now if it could be traited to stack 3 with
each cast, I would be spamming the hell out of it, even if that didn’t speed up the attack. In any pvp setting, it means jack! If you get a mesmer or any player down, you’re more likely to go for the spike because it’s, faster, more epic and has bragging rights attached. Confusion won’t stop that from happening.

Deception, I will admit, is highly useful in pvp settings. Anyone trying to spike us will have to resort to counter measures ahead of time or essentially spike us twice. This has saved my life quite a few times but I don’t feel it’s overpowered for 2 reasons. First, it can be countered because it needs a target to work. Going invisible, blocking, losing line-of-sight and blind will stop it. Second, we can’t choose where we teleport to. In pve it might as well be named seppuku because it’s more likely to teleport us into a far more dangerous situation. I would say between 80 to 90% of the time, it teleported me right under the ballsack of whatever monster downed me. As for invisibility, it’s outright broken What always happens is I port, my clone uses Mind Blast attacks and I’m made visible again by game mechanics so I might get 3/4ths of a second of invisibility. Not once has it EVER saved me! This is why most Mesmers say this power is crap.

I will proudly admit that the iRogue hits like a mac truck but the balance is you can’t use it right away. Like others, I rarely get the chance to use it. Even when I do use it, it rarely makes a difference. Anything I haven’t been able to kill before it’s active has little chance of dying from it. In PvP settings, I’m usually able to get spiked, a second time because Deception has its awesome moments, before this power is anywhere near ready. Even if I do get it off, the best it can do is down the person after me, which won’t get me back on my feet. From then on it’s a war of attrition and because I went down first, I’m already losing. It could help in that situation but only if I stay alive long enough for it to attack again. The odds are still against me so I don’t see how it’s OP.

Now onto illusions. They are the mesmer mechanic. If I am able to spawn them before I go down and they’re not taken care of, why shouldn’t I use them? While they can make an impressive difference, it’s only when a mesmer is traited to take full advantage of them. My character is traited for them to give conditions on death. A shatter may take a decent bite out of anyone trying to spike me but it won’t stop a spike.

The only other mesmer skills that will stop a spike are shatters that use the Illusionary Persona trait. With it F3 will grant distortion which will have to be well-timed but will avoid a spike. F4 will daze and that can be highly useful in stopping a spike. So why do I feel this is still within balance? Because Illusionary Persona is a Grandmaster trait. For 30 points, it has to be this epic!

So, in my opinion, the mesmer downstate isn’t over powered. In fact I think Mindblast either needs more confusion stacks or an entirely new gimmick. Deception needs a target reticule to work and the shatters require a trait deep within a trait line. That seems pretty fair to me.

I find Mesmers to be one of the easiest classes to stomp. Most Mesmers will use Deception as soon as I go for the stomp, so I just cancel out and move to the real Mesmer (indicated by the red triangle above the nameplate) and stomp away. Mesmers can’t push you away with any of their skills. Mind Blast will only become an issue if you decide it’s a good idea to auto-attack the Mesmer when downed, and phantasmal Rogue is on cooldown immediately after a Mesmer goes down, so the chances of them getting one out are slim to none. I imagine Phantasmal Rogue has to do lots of damage because it’s a single target attack, unlike the AoE interrupts/damage that other classes might have.

dirtyshame.1863:

I also think ranger pets should stop rezzing if you manage to kill them in the process as well.

Pretty sure that the ranger pet doesn’t continue ressing you/or others when it dies. Maybe I need to actually explicitly go out and test this.. but I’m 95% certain it should be working as intended (as in when the pet is dead, it is not ressing you).

Back to the ACTUAL topic though, I’d say that the underwater downed state is what really makes the mes strong, b/c they can’t be stomped, so confusion actually works defensively. On land tho, it’s w/e.

Crossplay.2067:

First, dirtyshame, I want to congratulate you for being able to take a critical look at mesmer powers and giving valid feedback on why you have formed an opinion. Even better, you have stated your reasoning in a very understandable and polite manner.

That being said, I disagree with you.

Let’s take a look at each power individually.

Mind Blast has one huge, glaring issue: confusion. While it’s arguably useful in pve as any enemy that downed us is likely to keep attacking, they don’t attack fast enough for confusion to make much of a difference. Now if it could be traited to stack 3 with
each cast, I would be spamming the hell out of it, even if that didn’t speed up the attack. In any pvp setting, it means jack! If you get a mesmer or any player down, you’re more likely to go for the spike because it’s, faster, more epic and has bragging rights attached. Confusion won’t stop that from happening.

Deception, I will admit, is highly useful in pvp settings. Anyone trying to spike us will have to resort to counter measures ahead of time or essentially spike us twice. This has saved my life quite a few times but I don’t feel it’s overpowered for 2 reasons. First, it can be countered because it needs a target to work. Going invisible, blocking, losing line-of-sight and blind will stop it. Second, we can’t choose where we teleport to. In pve it might as well be named seppuku because it’s more likely to teleport us into a far more dangerous situation. I would say between 80 to 90% of the time, it teleported me right under the ballsack of whatever monster downed me. As for invisibility, it’s outright broken What always happens is I port, my clone uses Mind Blast attacks and I’m made visible again by game mechanics so I might get 3/4ths of a second of invisibility. Not once has it EVER saved me! This is why most Mesmers say this power is crap.

I will proudly admit that the iRogue hits like a mac truck but the balance is you can’t use it right away. Like others, I rarely get the chance to use it. Even when I do use it, it rarely makes a difference. Anything I haven’t been able to kill before it’s active has little chance of dying from it. In PvP settings, I’m usually able to get spiked, a second time because Deception has its awesome moments, before this power is anywhere near ready. Even if I do get it off, the best it can do is down the person after me, which won’t get me back on my feet. From then on it’s a war of attrition and because I went down first, I’m already losing. It could help in that situation but only if I stay alive long enough for it to attack again. The odds are still against me so I don’t see how it’s OP.

Now onto illusions. They are the mesmer mechanic. If I am able to spawn them before I go down and they’re not taken care of, why shouldn’t I use them? While they can make an impressive difference, it’s only when a mesmer is traited to take full advantage of them. My character is traited for them to give conditions on death. A shatter may take a decent bite out of anyone trying to spike me but it won’t stop a spike.

The only other mesmer skills that will stop a spike are shatters that use the Illusionary Persona trait. With it F3 will grant distortion which will have to be well-timed but will avoid a spike. F4 will daze and that can be highly useful in stopping a spike. So why do I feel this is still within balance? Because Illusionary Persona is a Grandmaster trait. For 30 points, it has to be this epic!

So, in my opinion, the mesmer downstate isn’t over powered. In fact I think Mindblast either needs more confusion stacks or an entirely new gimmick. Deception needs a target reticule to work and the shatters require a trait deep within a trait line. That seems pretty fair to me.

In pvp situations, I will still continue to disagree with you. I have played many hours on a mesmer but mostly only spvp, so not being able to find a target with #2 was a problem I was not aware of. That does weaken the spell some, but I would tend to think unless you are fighting a thief, you should still be able to execute the ability.

I have never seen much of a responsiveness issue from #3 but, if the damage were to go down and the reactiveness go up… that seems like a fair trade.

I would tend to disagree with you about the core mechanic of mesmers, but that is another arguement. I am not a fan of how they were implemented in general. I do, however, appreciate the tone and constructive feedback. I will go back and further assess how I play.

Mesmer down skills are not that good, in my opinion. I play a fair amount of sPvP, and I always feel like hitting skill 2 is just a troll move. In fact, I wait as long as I can before doing so, knowing all the while that I will still die unless a teammate comes along to help rez me. You seldom teleport to some location that is better than that which you came from.

I have no idea what the OP is talking about with the 3 skill either. As with most mesmer abilities, it has randomness built into it, and has never saved me from my impending death, not even one time. Underwater we are better, but it still is just delaying our demise.

As a mesmer, I enter every encounter knowing that if I get downed with no teammates around, it will mean it is just time to wait for the respawn timer to expire. I do not think this is much different from most classes either, but our skills just seem to be much more passive aggressive in the way they function.

I’m gonna have to agree with mesmer downed skills being obnoxious as all hell. When I down one in WvW, I just want them to stop wasting my time and just “get it over with”, as Entropy said. Kinda like that annoying guardian bubble that they throw up.

Are you kidding me ?

Thief have enough cooldown to blink away.
Guardian pushes people.
Ele is invulnerable.
Warrior is getting ALIVE (A-L-I-V-E).

Only other profession that is lacking is Ranger, Engineer and Necro.

Seriously, Mesmer have the worse downed skills. If the RNG god is not by your side and you teleport JUST BESIDE, well… you’re done. Seriously, stop.

I just don’t even bother to finish thief, guardian, ele and war, they will just troll me. Just AA them.

I just saw this thread and lol’d, because last night i was roaming the charr 1-15 territory, and got in conflict with 4 ogres and a veteran ogre. I managed to kill the 4 ogres but then i died, and the only monster in my reach was the veteran (with full HP cuz i haven’t even touched it yet) so i though “hell, why not” and went for it in downed state. I threw out the clone 3 or 4 times, the rogue 2 (or 3?) times, other than that i hit it with the basic downed attack and when it was focusng on the clone or the rogue, i healed with number 4. And i laughed so hard when i managed to kill that VETERAN from downed state, but it felt so ridiculous… i never would’ve been able to do the same with any of my other characters…. so yeah, i guess it does feel kinda OP.

Edit: well, at least in PvE

the people in this thread that say deception is a bad skill either only do PVE or have absolutely no idea how stomp/stealth mechanics work.

go read up before you mislead others.

My mesmer gets more powerful when it gets downed in water.

Topics like this hurt my head.

Every class gets at least 1 deny stomp.
Every class gets a large hit move

Mesmer gets 1 deny that requires target and moves awkwardly.
And we get one power move.

Both are easy to get around unless your terra-bad.

And low level PvE?

1 who cares if you solo a mob it’s PvE?
2 who cares it’s low end PvE?

i think the most powerfull downed state have thief ability to 100% avoid first stomp, quite good chance to avoid second stomp, very good bouncing dmg skill

Carighan.6758:

Who lets you stay alive on the ground long enough to use that? O.o

This. +1 for great justice.

Also, #2 is the most broken skill out there – I’ve lost count of the number of times it puts me right back where I was.

I’ve got a whole mess of alts, and I’d say Mesmer downed state is neither good nor bad; it’s situational. But I cry a tear of pain every time I play my Warrior and use Vengeance. In my life, that skill has not automatically killed me after killing my enemy: three times.

So, compared to that, Mesmers are OP, sure

TactualRain.7109:

I’ve got a whole mess of alts, and I’d say Mesmer downed state is neither good nor bad; it’s situational. But I cry a tear of pain every time I play my Warrior and use Vengeance. In my life, that skill has not automatically killed me after killing my enemy: three times.

So, compared to that, Mesmers are OP, sure

That reminds me of the one time that I downed a warrior and he used vengeance right before I spiked him. I can’t even call what happened next a battle as I didn’t even attack him. I just dodged, blinked, evaded and waited until he keeled over.

Ahh, I love being a mesmer!

Xavi.6591:

I think elementalists have the best downed state.

About the only good thing they can do is run into a keep/tower in WvW in their downed state. Otherwise, if they’re too far away, their down state is completely worthless.

I find against players who don’t fully understand it the downed state is very strong. However experienced players anticipate the teleport and know how to spot real mesmer right after the port. They also anticipate the clone damage and don’t try to stomp or sit in close with low health. It’s still a very good downed state, but not sure it’s ‘overpowered’, unless you also feel Guardian, Thief, Ranger and Ele downed states are as well.

Entropy.4732:

What in the name of the Pale Tree are you smoking? We have the WORST downed state in the entire game! This is how I know people come on the mes forum just to troll.

You had a good post, but honestly it could have ended there. You hit it right on the head about people just coming on the mesmer forum and posting asinine things.

alemfi.5107:

dirtyshame.1863:

I also think ranger pets should stop rezzing if you manage to kill them in the process as well.

Pretty sure that the ranger pet doesn’t continue ressing you/or others when it dies. Maybe I need to actually explicitly go out and test this.. but I’m 95% certain it should be working as intended (as in when the pet is dead, it is not ressing you).

Underwater it keeps going even if the pet dies. In fact, it’s really hard to get it to stop once it starts.

MaXi.3642:

i think the most powerfull downed state have thief ability to 100% avoid first stomp, quite good chance to avoid second stomp, very good bouncing dmg skill

when are people going to realize mesmer #2 is 100% avoid first stomp as well?

mesmers downed state is only second to ele and thieves downed state.