Guild Wars 2

I’m looking around, but not finding anything really concrete or dungeon oriented…

In dungeons I generally run a shatter build with berserker armor, but would like a change. I am interested in running a different build using the same zerker gear, and heard about phantasm builds.

How do I got about being a phantasm mesmer in dungeons? I’m a little lost.

The main phantasm (bunker) build is
10/20/0/25/0 +15

Domination: +15% illusion damage.
Dueling: Most ppl choose phantasm fury and deceptive evasion (clone on dodge)
Inspiration: no common choice, but alot useful traits are there

General question:
do you use mantras?

Nretep.2564:

The main phantasm (bunker) build is
10/20/0/25/0 +15

Domination: +15% illusion damage.
Dueling: Most ppl choose phantasm fury and deceptive evasion (clone on dodge)
Inspiration: no common choice, but alot useful traits are there

General question:
do you use mantras?

Not really.

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/mesmer/?4.0|1.1g.h1j|c.1g.h1j.d.1g.h2|1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7|2s.d1e.2s.d1e.3s.d1e.2s.d1e.3s.d1e.2s.d1e|k3a.k24.0.u258.0|55.7|31.39.38.3d.3q|e

This is what I run in dungeons and fractals, all of the traits should be fairly obvious and straight-forward – reduced cooldowns on all skills, reflects on focus skills, increased phantasm damage and reduced glamour cooldowns. Basically just keep 3 phantasms up if you want to move away from shattering, and the increased illusion HP buff from the last patch really helps with this.

A good dungeon build not phantasm sorry is my protection build.
0/20/30/20/0 with restorative mantras you can heal ur party for 3k consistently and you also pump out permanent protection through stealth+signet of inspiration. Has been called one of the best support builds across classes by people I have run with…
Edit: You can also run this w/ berserker gear you will just need to change runes is all and chocolate omnom berry cream for boon duration.

i still suggest 0/20/0/25/25

after tests deals lot more than 20/20/0/30/0

Obviously if you don t test on golems but in game
Golems won t kill your phantasms.

That just becomes faster attack rate and higher phantasm (reflect also) uptime that boost your dps

@starburst
I never recommend a build with two different weapon traits.

@jportell
that’s why I asked him, if he’s using mantras. He said no.

@lordbyron
it’s a different setup you constantly call your phants and shattering them or summon them and try to do other things. Sure, summinging skills and deceptive evasion help your DPS, but building high prec (for sharper images), high power and additional 12% damage from mantra charges may serve different purposes with less stress.
If you don’t like shatters, putting 25 points into illusions are almost like 20 points wasted.

Nretep.2564:

If you don’t like shatters, putting 25 points into illusions are almost like 20 points wasted.

I guess that when putting on the plate

-drop 25 pts in condition and shatter line (2 things you don’t care about it) just for IC

or

-lose IC to have 25 pts to drop in far more useful stat lines

he choose IC. Especially in a phant build, the re-summoning CD is vital. The fact that it now is so deep in the “shatter” trait line is just kittened, but hey: balance.

/sarcasm

Nretep.2564:

@starburst
I never recommend a build with two different weapon traits.

Why not exactly? We already lost 4 seconds on our GS phantasm cooldown because of losing IC and the guy wants a phantasm build, so it’s important to be able to whip them out as frequently as you can for overall higher damage output, you’re also getting more Mirror Blade’s etc and another 100 power.

AndrewSX.3794:

he choose IC. Especially in a phant build, the re-summoning CD is vital.

I’m not sure if this was also included in the sarcasm part.
Resummoning is not vital in phantasm builds. Vital is to keep them alive. And with the 270% HP buff, you don’t need 20% faster summoning. Clones still die easily – especially sword ones. But I have no problem keeping my ranged phantasms up without any CD reduction (exc iWarden and iDefender) or HP increasement (neither trait, nor signet).

The 250 condition damage might be nice for sharper images, but 25% condition duration would do the same. And give you other traits and 250 power … or 100 prec & 10% crit damage.

@starburst
you only get the stat boosts when you have the weapon active. You can’t have both of them active, so it’s like you’re throwing one slot away. And as I said, I don’t have the feeling that I need to cast the iZerker 20% faster, it’s standing there quite a while.

If you’re solo, it might be a different issue. Your phants would’ve a high probability of getting aggro, but in a five man group …

[ Edit ]
I forgot phantasmal haste … so only 15 pts would be wasted ba putting 25 pts into illusion line.

Nretep.2564:

I’m not sure if this was also included in the sarcasm part.
Resummoning is not vital in phantasm builds.

So and so.

“Vital” is a bit an exaggeration. But surely phantasms are hurt a lot by longer CDs if you’re
-not facing a boss. trash mobs die fast…and phantasm with them
-facing aoe. alpha for example burn down both meele and ranged phant extremely quickly.

Also, the hp boost is nice, but marginal – stuff in dg can oneshot players, let alone phant.

Nretep.2564:

@starburst
@lordbyron
it’s a different setup you constantly call your phants and shattering them or summon them and try to do other things. Sure, summinging skills and deceptive evasion help your DPS, but building high prec (for sharper images), high power and additional 12% damage from mantra charges may serve different purposes with less stress.
If you don’t like shatters, putting 25 points into illusions are almost like 20 points wasted.

i never mentioned shattering nor deceptive evasion

I play fractal since ages and recently started to “play” cof1 also just to see the difference in efficiency (also because i got a zap <.<).

Look at what traits are in illusiosns and what do you give up.

You basically give up 15% phantasm dps and 200 power
You lose 20% CD

Now lets see what this mean:

Most our damage (and reflection) comes from iWarden

-Iwarden is stupid and wont follow a moving target even if you can control target movement smetimes they just move little away from iwarden

-phantasms still die too fast

-2 iwardens deals more than 1 iwarden thus shorter cooldown = more dps

-faster attack rate equals again to more dps

That is not even the best part.

The best part is that those things impact even reflect uptime.

So giving up IC means having less reliable damage and less reliable reflect for more BURST.

If we wanted to play burst we would play shatter and that is why in game from my tests (cof1, dungeons and lot of fractals) we NEED IC.

Along with IC we get faster attack rate AND 3% dps per active illusion (9% max)
With a 25% reduced cooldown on our panic button also that is the only shatter skill i use (that is distortion).

Now its debatable if losing phantasmal fury to keep 10 points for a 10/10/0/25/25…

But from my tests i definitely saw that 20/20/0/30/0 is unreliable and bad in real gaming situation (i.e. not on golems)

P.S. unless they give more than 15.000 HP to illusions they tend to be onesoht or anyway killed in few seconds that is why HP boost in PvE is good only with really easy trashmob but even there you lose them when trash dies to kill another trash.
In Fractals phantasm HP is useless for sure (even at cof1)

P.P.S: also its more fun with shorter CD

Although 20/20/0/30/0 loses IC, Phantasmal Haste and Compounding Power, we still get 20% lower cooldowns (GS trait), Blade Training, bleeds on crits, +100 power, precision and crit dmg and a third Inspiration trait for either 20% more phantasm HP or longer lasting glamours so I wouldn’t say it’s “bad”. I do run 25 in Illusions for PvP though for them 12 second phantasm cooldowns.

Well its not you gain anything..
Its more….anything you do to adjust the build you LOSE something.

It was a huge nerf and we have to give up something…
I prefer reliability and i use more sword/focus than GS if i can but IC compensate for the loss of GS training.

It doesn t for the loss of 15% damage :/

@andrew
Well in dungeons, most mobs outlive phantasms, so the lowered recharge barely helps in the matter “the mobs die to fast, you need to recast on other mobs”.
And yes, some bosses are really anti-phantasms, but that is something all profession have to face. Alpha is especially one of those I’d never want clone-on-dodge on. At least in p1 I can use iDefender and iWarden for a bit damage (and regeneration), but all other ways only work with instant shattering. But as I said … any class will have their disadvantage sometimes.

@LordByon
It’s still a personal matter. I assume your “addition 15% damage” come from phantasmal haste not shattering, confusion or other things from illusion line. Assuming your phantasms live that long, it sure is a buff. So when you argue with “your phants die to fast”, phantasmal haste effect instantly voids. So the recasting argument shares the same fate.
Compared to that, I have 30 points in dueling. So I get additional damage with every mantra I have. Let’s cut the “sometimes I use three mantras” and the “not always are mantras charged” so I have two mantras up and receive a bonus of 8% damage passively. So your 25 pts in illusions give -20% CD and -15% CD compared to 10 points in dueling granting me additional 8% overall damage. Yours is still better, even if I add the 100 prec and 10% critdamage (overall). But the difference isn’t that big anymore leaving out that you compare 25 pts with 10 pts. condition damage is not to neglet either (with sharper images), but that evens out the higher crit rate from phantasms with 100 prec and sharper images.
And when I put the remaining 10 pts into domination I not only get 100 power, but also 15% illusion damage.

So we compare

• 15% illusion damage, 8% overall damage, 100 presonal prec, 10% crit dmg, 100 personal power
• 15% illusion recharge, 20% illusion summoning recharge

since I set 250 malice equal to 100 illusion prec and 100 illusion power, only the personal one is left.
Assuming 15% illusion recharge and 15% illusion damage would be equal (even if obviously illusion damage is better), it’d be

• 8% overall damage, 100 presonal prec, 100 personal power, 10% crit dmg
• 20% illusion summoning recharge

for a mantra user, that is. I choose the first one.

no i said i lost 15% dps that are lost even if you choose to ignore illusion

But if i have to choose to give up IC i d have a far worse loss because phantasms are not so reliable to think we can keep them alive

Also i d have a loss in reflect uptime during real game

I’ll fix this (i used 0/20/0/25/25)
So we compare:

•15% illusion damage, 200 POWER, 50 Power with GS and reduced CD on useless skills

•15% illusion recharge, 20% illusion summoning recharge, 9% overal damage (and some defensive stuff)

Illusion casting time is impacting the overall damage in many more ways because you can summon more than 1 iwarden faster and summon a replacement when a phantasm get killed, kill target or fails.

If it doesn t you have faster attack rate.

So you lose dps not from phantasms but almost only from GS #1 and BF while gaining lot of dps from phantasm due to more reliability that is the weak point of not taking illusion traitline.

That from tests in cof1, AC, coe1-2-3 and fotm 28-48 (tried a lot) overall dps is increased (compared to 20/20/0/30/0) because HP buff proved to be USELESS in 90% situations and thus losing IC proved to be too big of a loss*

But from my playstyle obviously.

I really wanted to ignore IC i tried for days ….until i tried illusion traits.

*note that i know how to place my phantasms also how to profit iLeap, that is why i want IC to keep 3 constantly UP.

LordByron.8369:

So we compare:

•15% illusion damage, 200 POWER, 50 Power with GS and reduced CD on useless skills

•15% illusion recharge, 20% illusion summoning recharge, 9% overal damage (and some defensive stuff)

The GS trait lowers the phantasm CD and Mirror Blade by 20% aswell, both of which are far from useless. And you’re forgetting about yours missing the 3rd major trait in Inspiration. I dunno if you are aware but Phantasmal Haste only makes iZerker recharge 10% faster, and Warden doesn’t get the full 20% either, so i’d rather take the 15% increased illusion damage over Haste.

GS phantasms = IC

As for major trait was suggested illusion HP …..i will never ever take in consideration.
I used IX (longer glamour skills) but is not enough.

I know phantasmal haste have issues….but as i said i try to use as many iWarden as i can while the zerker is only there until i can properly setup 3 better phantasms (unless i need aoes…that pojts back to target dying and with him the iZerker).

trust me i did my homeworks…..
Mirror blade is not that good if your aim is keeping up 3 phantasms.
Its an awesome shatter skill but i can live with 20% more cd on a phantasms build

What hurts most is the 250 power on GS1

P.S: rather than theorycrafting

Did you test both builds?

I can’t test it. I’m reliant on Dueling VII, Inspiration IV and Inspiration X, due to my mantras. And with 15 more points (5 in inspi and 10 in domi) I get +30% damage, I wouldn’t get from 25 pts in illusions. I don’t like the “9% dmg with 3 illusions” trait, but that’s a personal opinion. Instead, I grab the 8% more damage from mantras (and get some prec/ crtdmg).

But yeah, it could be completely different without mantras.

I have pretty much used both builds yes, not exactly 0-20-0-25-25 as I’ve always used the same setup for Domination and Dueling, but I have 25 in Illusions when I PvP for Decoy etc. They both have advantages over the other but for me, I feel there are more advantages for me in 20-20-0-30-0. I never shatter in PvE and the stat bonuses in Illusions are useless to me. We have the same cooldowns on our phantasms but I have +200 power, another +15% illusion damage and a 3rd Insp trait as opposed to Compounding Power, Phantasmal Haste (which doesn’t really do what it says on the tin) and some minor shatter traits. You mentioned reliability earlier but an increase in damage is more reliable than a faster recharge (~16% warden, ~8% zerker) in my opinion. Each to their own though :P

To me, it seems that each of your (#Starburst, #Nretep, #LordByron) builds both have their own set of pros and cons, and each of you weigh those differently. Also, these pros and cons might change depending on whether you PUG or run with an organized group (where you have really worked out your role in making the run as efficient as possible).

I think that each of your builds is solid! With the recent changes, I think this is where our “build diversity” will come in. Do you value IC enough to go 25 deep in illusions? Or do you say “no thanks” and split your points into domination, dueling, and inspiration? And since both focus on the mesmer’s main PvE ability of adding a lot of utility to the group, the other trait points are just nuances based on a person’s predilection.

I think that entertaining putting points into lllusion is worthwhile, despite how you won’t want to be shattering too often.

I know it’s partially a repeat, but here’s my take on it:

10/10/0/25/25

Sword / Focus & Greatsword

(DPS with a hint of support)

Domination – (III) Empowered Illusions
Dueling – (II) Phantasmal Fury
Chaos – (N/A)
Inspiration – (II, VIII) Glamour Mastery, Warden’s Feedback
Illusions – (III, X) Compounding Power, Phantasmal Haste

Trait Bonuses
30% (Total) Phantasm Damage (Inspirations Grandmaster Minor Trait + Domination III Major Trait)
20% Faster Recharge on Phantasm attacks (The phantasms themselves attack more often – this is most potent with the Warden, but also effects the Berserker – Not always a consistent 20% based on the Phantasm though…)
100 Power
10% Condition Duration
100 Precision (Slightly less than 5% Critical Chance)
10% Critical Damage
250 Vitality
250 Healing Power
250 Condition Damage
25% Faster Shatter Recharge
Interrupts apply vulnerability
Gain 5 seconds of vigor on delivering a critical hit. This effect can only trigger once every 5 seconds.
Phantasms have Fury (+20% Critical Chance)
Phantasms have 5 seconds of Retaliation when cast
Phantasms pulse Regeneration to allies
All Shatters apply Confusion
Shattering grants 1 stack of might per Illusion (10 seconds)
Illusion summoning skills recharge 20% faster (Stacks with Focus trait for 40% faster recast on Phantasmal Warden)

Suggested Utilities: Feedback, Null Field, (Your Choice for third slot, maybe Signet of Illusions?)
Elite: Time Warp

Main damage comes from Phantasmal Warden, especially on stationary boss monsters. Both the Warden and Berserker have Whirl Combo finishers built into their attacks, (Despite not being indicated in their tool tips) so they can be placed within combo fields to apply additional damage or cures / heals depending on the field. Your traits allow you to cast them more often, and also allow existing Phantasms to attack more frequently. With the trait, your Temporal Curtain and Warden also both reflect projectiles, which is crucial in certain fights. (Combined with Feedback… you can have reflects up most of the time if timed and positioned correctly)

Sometimes I swap the sword for a scepter if I know it’s going to be mostly a ranged fight so that I can keep auto attacking while using the focus. Confusing Images (Scepter 3) isn’t bad either. In general you’ll want to use your Greatsword though for ranged fights unless you’re casting the Focus Phantasm.

If you really wanna get supporty and hate the idea of using a scepter for long range attacks while using the Focus, using Restorative Mantras (Inspiration X) either by dropping Inspiration VIII or pulling 5 points from another Trait line would allow you to spam heal by using Mantra of Pain. This can potentially help with Phantasm durability while also giving you the option for a group heal. Worth considering, I think!

Now that I think about it…

0/15/0/30/25 might be worth trying too. That way you could run both Warden’s Feedback (Inspiration VIII) and Restorative Mantras (Inspiration X) at the same time at the cost of 15% Phantasm damage. This also boosts your critical chance a little more than 10/10/0/25/25 would have though, and also lets your Phantasms apply bleeds.

As much as I loved iCelerity, dropping everything useful for its sake now is not the smartest thing to do, and I am saying that with the biggest restraint ever.

Compounding power, is cute, but it’s not very efficient as the newly summoned phantasm doesn’t get the full buff effect: this means – u have 2 things out, you summon third, the dmg bonus it gets is 6%. The only reason to have this trait is to boost your own personal dps, which will blow, coz u kitten yourself by taking 0 into domination.

Phantasmal haste. There has rarely been a trait that just refuses to work. This one is it. It doesn’t work on iZerker or iSwordsman. You’re using gs, so what’s the point of this exactly?

iElasticity – yea no not really dependant as something that would be useful as a buff to you when you are not the only person around.

And during all this time that you are using these bandaid traits you lose out on – 15% illusion attack, dazzling, gs training – which btw reduces the phantasm cd aswell w/o actually crippling your damage.

In the end u get to summon weaker phantasms faster, while your own attacks do lower damage. Yea not my cup of tea sorry.

If you so desperately want to keep using iCelerity, then do what anet wants you to do and go shatter/phantasm hybrid with 20 20 0 0 30. get illusion 15% and mind wrack dmg or gs training if you prefer, get compounding power, shatter recharge and illusionary persona and you’re golden. You’ll do pretty much the same crap you do with 0 20 0 25 25 only better. True you won’t bring as much utility as with 25 in inspiration, but you’ll compensate by having your damage not suck donkey balls.

XRay.1920:

Compounding power, is cute, but it’s not very efficient as the newly summoned phantasm doesn’t get the full buff effect: this means – u have 2 things out, you summon third, the dmg bonus it gets is 6%. The only reason to have this trait is to boost your own personal dps, which will blow, coz u kitten yourself by taking 0 into domination.

Phantasmal haste. There has rarely been a trait that just refuses to work. This one is it. It doesn’t work on iZerker or iSwordsman. You’re using gs, so what’s the point of this exactly?

And during all this time that you are using these bandaid traits you lose out on – 15% illusion attack, dazzling, gs training – which btw reduces the phantasm cd aswell w/o actually crippling your damage.

In the end u get to summon weaker phantasms faster, while your own attacks do lower damage. Yea not my cup of tea sorry.

Compounding Power doesn’t boost illusions at all and while Phantasmal Haste is broken, it does work to an extent, giving iZerker ~8% quicker recharge. So yea, personally I’m not going to go into Illusions on my PvE build. I rather the extra 250 power which does affect Illusions and the extra 15% phantasm damage in Domination, not to mention the extra major trait in Inspiration – 20% Phantasm HP buff/longer glamours/restorative mantras – plenty to choose from.

This.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/OP-Phantasm-Mesmer-Build-Updated-06-27-13/first

I tried a variation of #LordByron’s build, with GS/Sc+P
Going for critical bleed and confusion from glamours.
It benefits from the Illusion condition +dmg and I loose the focus utility + combo leap chaos armor.

You gain 6 confusion + 6 bleeding for each of your phantasms.
The switch to scepter was painful but as said in dungeons you want your phantasms to be far away from the mobs.

PS: Seeing 25 stacks of confusion next to the usual 25 bleeds in Temple events made me a proud Mesmer

Korusef.3714:

I tried a variation of #LordByron’s build, with GS/Sc+P
Going for critical bleed and confusion from glamours.
It benefits from the Illusion condition +dmg and I loose the focus utility + combo leap chaos armor.

You gain 6 confusion + 6 bleeding for each of your phantasms.
The switch to scepter was painful but as said in dungeons you want your phantasms to be far away from the mobs.

PS: Seeing 25 stacks of confusion next to the usual 25 bleeds in Temple events made me a proud Mesmer

The only trait which benefits bleedings in the illusion line is Phantasmal Haste. Bleedings sure increase their damage with the malice, but putting more into precision would get you the same result. At the same time you get more direct damage from prec and crtdmg (compared to malice).

I previously ran a mantra, bleeding build with ~70% crit (no buff, stack of food) and quite a bit malice (rampager). It seems powerful, but you get confused with all those numbers. A zerker/bunker build should deal the same damage while not sacrificing all defense.

[ Edit ]
putting 10 points into domination also grants you +10% condition duration, which is said to work on sharper images now (?).
Burst → direct damage
Ramp → condition duration
something between → condition damage

Have you tried a hybrid power/condition phantasm build?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Builds-Flowing-Images-25th-patch-update/first#post1821367