Guild Wars 2

Our class is based on confusion. I obviously don’t just mean the condition, but in general our class especially benefits from new players being inexperienced with how mesmers work. Stealth, moa morph, clones, confusion, torment, interrupts. We are a class built around deception and punishing. So these are my question:

tldr; Can you balance mesmer without adding more confusing mechanics that hurt casual players fighting a mesmer? Can you decrease the skill it requires to fight a mesmer and balance it at the same time?

If we can’t do that we are going to stay nerfed.

Well it definitely serves to muddle the screen with so much crap that it definitely takes its toll on a person’s situational awareness.

For confusion, maybe an updated form of our clone AI in which they attempt to mimic player behavior. Probably asking too much for something like Dragon’s Dogma where the Clones “learn” from your habits and attempt to mimic that. Would be AMAZING though, in my opinion.

Honestly, Mesmer is not a class new players should be playing, unless they’re up to the challenge. Even at release, Mesmers, due to not filling a specific niche in the typical rpg archetypes, in the usual mmos, the Mesmer was a complex profession to play even for mmo veterans.

If they ever end up adding hexes back into the game, or something along the lines of a new type of “condition” that has unique non-condition affects for certain classes (or for all classes for the sake of homogeneity. Don’t want certain classes having less unique class mechanics than others) then the Mesmers can be given effects that focus on punishing mistakes, like the confusion condition, but perhaps something other than damage. Of course this is just me secretly asking for hexes to come back, due to all the different things they could do despite being one thing, so to speak.

Honestly, I’ll stick to the updating of our clone AI.

well i would love to have more punishing skills. cause that was the mesmers original role. thats why confusion was a great option for us. if a zerg mindlessly spammed with 25 stacks of confusion, well their loss. they should have backed off or kite 3 seconds and then attack. i can remember how glamour destroyed my guild at first and then we adapted and learned how to deal with it.
if the mesmer had such kind of aoe again that can slow down a enemies. right now this is missing in wvw. atm there is just heavytrains running in cc everyone to death and then pvd…if there was glam still, then those zergs would actually have to think and be careful.
mes in gw1 was dangerous because of such powerful lockdowns and punishing skills. anet packed it all into 1 condition they ended up nerfing. so now we need something punishing back.

i dont think we need more ai. we got too much already. we need non ai options so we can also be viable in wvw again.

selan.8354:

well i would love to have more punishing skills. cause that was the mesmers original role. thats why confusion was a great option for us. if a zerg mindlessly spammed with 25 stacks of confusion, well their loss. they should have backed off or kite 3 seconds and then attack. i can remember how glamour destroyed my guild at first and then we adapted and learned how to deal with it.
if the mesmer had such kind of aoe again that can slow down a enemies. right now this is missing in wvw. atm there is just heavytrains running in cc everyone to death and then pvd…if there was glam still, then those zergs would actually have to think and be careful.
mes in gw1 was dangerous because of such powerful lockdowns and punishing skills. anet packed it all into 1 condition they ended up nerfing. so now we need something punishing back.

i dont think we need more ai. we got too much already. we need non ai options so we can also be viable in wvw again.

Well in wvw at least, the AoE cap limits any heavy group punishing. Perhaps, they should add a secondary section to a number of condition related traits that increase the duration of confusion, so we can easily stack it high, if left alone, giving enemy players strong incentive to cleanse it, or of course, die.

As it stands, The Mesmer is more of a Magic Swordsman, or a Duelist, than a Punisher.

Alasteir.7031:

selan.8354:

well i would love to have more punishing skills. cause that was the mesmers original role. thats why confusion was a great option for us. if a zerg mindlessly spammed with 25 stacks of confusion, well their loss. they should have backed off or kite 3 seconds and then attack. i can remember how glamour destroyed my guild at first and then we adapted and learned how to deal with it.
if the mesmer had such kind of aoe again that can slow down a enemies. right now this is missing in wvw. atm there is just heavytrains running in cc everyone to death and then pvd…if there was glam still, then those zergs would actually have to think and be careful.
mes in gw1 was dangerous because of such powerful lockdowns and punishing skills. anet packed it all into 1 condition they ended up nerfing. so now we need something punishing back.

i dont think we need more ai. we got too much already. we need non ai options so we can also be viable in wvw again.

Well in wvw at least, the AoE cap limits any heavy group punishing. Perhaps, they should add a secondary section to a number of condition related traits that increase the duration of confusion, so we can easily stack it high, if left alone, giving enemy players strong incentive to cleanse it, or of course, die.

As it stands, The Mesmer is more of a Magic Swordsman, or a Duelist, than a Punisher.

yesh i dont mind the aoe cap if i just could hit multiple targets more often. atm it all depends on your shatters hitting( almost impossible without ip in zergs) or phantasms to spawn properly and work properly( atm too many bugs) so i think we need to tone down the ai dependancy and give the mesmer like u said something more punishing back. this class is almost a pet class the way it is and that shouldnt be. we need like the necro has his marks and wells for condis, we need something glamour like that is punishing and does hurt too. something that can slow down those trains again.

confusion doesnt need to last longer u can make it last long enough, but stacking should be easier as a mesmer…and also a trait for mesmers to increase confusion dmg by like 10-15 percent would be nice…but then again id rather have a whole makeover of the class

I would start with actually fixing most bugged skills. We don’t know, may be after that mesmer won’t need much balancing, some things are broken since launch, and others were broken during “fixing” them.
Until that it is too early to talk about the balance I believe.
Trying to fine tune for example a car which is not working properly sounds like an insane a bad idea to me.

cheshader.5081:

I would start with actually fixing most bugged skills. We don’t know, may be after that mesmer won’t need much balancing, some things are broken since launch, and others were broken during “fixing” them.
Until that it is too early to talk about the balance I believe.
Trying to fine tune for example a car which is not working properly sounds like an insane a bad idea to me.

only fixing bugs aint gonna make us less veilbots in wvw. it will help the spvp mes a ton though! but in wvw unless we get rework and new ways of dealing dmg besides ai, we will still be veilbots…but at lest veilbots that have working phantasms and traits.

Meet my confusion mesmer still perfecting him but he is nasty already, After the confusion nerf a while back i gave up on confusion but tried it again and loved it in a zerg feedback gives me stacks of confusion on lots of targets

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhIQNAW7fnsISja2pGuqBzaGZ2YO5M/g6kOqoSGQyA-T1yCABAcBAO+hAAouADM5g8RAALlCNpkb59H8R9nsUGMmSwAAIAzcmJzAQKAIWWB-w

Bo Van Swill.7619:

Meet my confusion mesmer still perfecting him but he is nasty already, After the confusion nerf a while back i gave up on confusion but tried it again and loved it in a zerg feedback gives me stacks of confusion on lots of targets

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhIQNAW7fnsISja2pGuqBzaGZ2YO5M/g6kOqoSGQyA-T1yCABAcBAO+hAAouADM5g8RAALlCNpkb59H8R9nsUGMmSwAAIAzcmJzAQKAIWWB-w

errr well i think u got the classic glamour mes build right there but u use de instead of confusing enchantments, but how can u even closely deal any form of dmg if u dont use the donination trait with this?
i did play full glamour for a while this week just so i can tag, but thats the thing: all u do get is tags. u are not the one dealing great dmg to them. u deal some, but its not a real threat anymore. i get hit by glamour mes sometimes and nope not real dmg for me either.
problem with it is the hard to stack issue that doesnt make up for the long cd’s anymore.

Just an idea I’ve had, AE for WvW, one trait(maybe a GM) could have been a -% damage taken on clones and phantasms for a second or two, which would have given a short window after cast to pull off shatters instead of instant death.

Just add dodge on clones an jump, let em share buff icons and powza

Teufel.9864:

Just an idea I’ve had, AE for WvW, one trait(maybe a GM) could have been a -% damage taken on clones and phantasms for a second or two, which would have given a short window after cast to pull off shatters instead of instant death.

hmm yeah something that allows the clones to reach the targets at least. cause that is a big issue with shatters not working anymore cause of aoe spam

Well I do got a list of things I always wanted for mesmer to change….:

PU got too much in 1. Regen, prot and aegis +1 sec longer stealth is just too
much. Wereas thief loses his stealth when attacking, a mesmer can still deal a
lot damage while being stealthed.

• PU’s buffs should all last 1 second shorter in duration.
• phantasm should get a 5-10% damage nerf
• mind blast should get a blast finisher
• Change mantra of distraction:
  30 seconds cooldown – 2.75 sec casting time
  Meditate, charging a spell that will daze your target.
  Number of casts: 2
  1 second Daze – 1200 yards
  Change it to:
  25 seconds cooldown – 2.25 seconds casting time (*please note that mantra
  casting time should be 2,25 instead of 2,75 Imo. 2.25 is just still a little
  bit too much. 2.5 would do too.)
  Meditate, charging a spell that will daze your target.
  Number of casts: 2
  0.25 second daze – 1200 yards
• Add a new GM trait: GM trait dueling Illusioned Mantra’s:
  Makes all mantra’s area of effect.
• Scepter #1 needs to be reworked and it’s velocity needs to go higher
• Scepter #2 torment needs to be scaled down to 4 stacks
• Scepter #3 needs to be changed to 2.5sec casting time instead of 3 seconds
• Chaos storm should have 40% of it’s ticks be dazes, while applying a
  condition every tick with it too.
• Chaotic Dampening now also provides Chaos storm to have a 20% extra chance
  (so 60% chance) to do daze every tick.
• Chaos storm cooldown has been increased to 40 from 35.
• Illusionary leap needs to be fixed or reworked
• Mimic needs a rework
• Moa needs reworked or replaced by another elite based on aoe lockdown
• Chaos armor needs to become an aura, so it can stack in duration. Blast
  finishers should reward 3 seconds of aura( instead of 2?).
• Blurred frenzy should be reworked to 6x hitting from 8x, but have it’s total
  damage remain the same and the casting time too.
• Increasing blurred frenzy’s distortion with 0.25sec to match it’s casting
  time
• On clone death traits have an internal cooldown of 2 seconds, but have it’s
  duration increased by 25% to compensate.
• Blinding befuddlement got his internal cooldown removed
• Blinding befuddlement moved to grandmaster trait
• Imbued diversion moved to master trait, this trait works in combination with
  Illusionary persona
• Casting time of all mantra’s has been reduced to 2.25 sec casting time from
  2.75
• Arcane thievery cooldown has been reduced to 40 seconds from 45
• Feedback has it’s cooldown reduced to 35 from 40
• Into the void it’s cooldown has been reduced to 0.5 seconds from 1 second.
• Temportal Curtain now gives 3 seconds of swiftness to allies walking through
  the Curtain who already got swiftness.
• Restorative Illusions now heals aoe radius of 360 up to 5 allies
• Cleansing inscriptions now allows you to remove 2 conditions when using a
  signet from 1.
• Shattered Strength (25 minor trait illusions) now grants 2 stacks of might
  for 10 seconds up from 1 stack.
• Cry of frustration has it’s damage increased by 25% and now applies 4
  seconds of confusion up from 3 seconds.
• Restorative Mantra’s now scales 1.0 instead of 0.2 with healing power.
• Signet of inspiration now gives 1 random boon every 8 seconds instead of 10
  and has its cooldown reduced to 30 seconds. This signet now only copy’s up to
  5 boon instead of all.
• Signet of domination has its cooldown reduced to 35 seconds and it’s stun
  duration reduced to 2 seconds down from 3.
• Signet of illusions has it’s cooldown reduced to 60 seconds.
• Signet of Midnight has it’s cooldown reduced to 15 seconds. Or! Signet of
  midnight is now a blast finisher, reduced its cooldown to 25 seconds.
• Power Block: Sets auto attacks and thief skills on a 5 seconds cooldown and increases the interrupt cooldown from 5 to 10 seconds.

Alasteir.7031:

Well it definitely serves to muddle the screen with so much crap that it definitely takes its toll on a person’s situational awareness.

For confusion, maybe an updated form of our clone AI in which they attempt to mimic player behavior. Probably asking too much for something like Dragon’s Dogma where the Clones “learn” from your habits and attempt to mimic that. Would be AMAZING though, in my opinion.

That’s a nice idea. I’ve seen some AI in this game dodge rolling, and I have no idea why mesmer clones don’t at least do this.

?f they wanna balance mesmer for wvw.. Give the name to wvw as ’ competitive mode’ as how tpvp sound.. Make a ‘Offical mode’ for large scale fights.. Make it ranked.. Make spec system or esport.. Then wvw balance will be more objective accurete..

For WvW:

Maybe some traits like:
-Every projectile/skill reflected by a Mesmer applies confusion to the target it hits.
-Null field damages every time it removes a boon and heals every time it removes a condition
-Make Chaos Storm a glamour skill, so you can reduce his CD twice, if you want.
-Phantasms have ~5s of distortion after being summoned -synergizes with masterfull reflection

Change some of the minor traits to give +damage% when endurance isn’t full, 1% per boon, if target has x condition, target is below x% health. I have no kittening idea why Mesmer is the only class that does not have these.

Alasteir.7031:

Well it definitely serves to muddle the screen with so much crap that it definitely takes its toll on a person’s situational awareness.

For confusion, maybe an updated form of our clone AI in which they attempt to mimic player behavior. Probably asking too much for something like Dragon’s Dogma where the Clones “learn” from your habits and attempt to mimic that. Would be AMAZING though, in my opinion.

Honestly, Mesmer is not a class new players should be playing, unless they’re up to the challenge. Even at release, Mesmers, due to not filling a specific niche in the typical rpg archetypes, in the usual mmos, the Mesmer was a complex profession to play even for mmo veterans.

If they ever end up adding hexes back into the game, or something along the lines of a new type of “condition” that has unique non-condition affects for certain classes (or for all classes for the sake of homogeneity. Don’t want certain classes having less unique class mechanics than others) then the Mesmers can be given effects that focus on punishing mistakes, like the confusion condition, but perhaps something other than damage. Of course this is just me secretly asking for hexes to come back, due to all the different things they could do despite being one thing, so to speak.

Honestly, I’ll stick to the updating of our clone AI.

Wouldnt that increase the problem? Because new players would be even more confused when fighting mesmers?

Daniel Handler.4816:

Alasteir.7031:

Well it definitely serves to muddle the screen with so much crap that it definitely takes its toll on a person’s situational awareness.

For confusion, maybe an updated form of our clone AI in which they attempt to mimic player behavior. Probably asking too much for something like Dragon’s Dogma where the Clones “learn” from your habits and attempt to mimic that. Would be AMAZING though, in my opinion.

Honestly, Mesmer is not a class new players should be playing, unless they’re up to the challenge. Even at release, Mesmers, due to not filling a specific niche in the typical rpg archetypes, in the usual mmos, the Mesmer was a complex profession to play even for mmo veterans.

If they ever end up adding hexes back into the game, or something along the lines of a new type of “condition” that has unique non-condition affects for certain classes (or for all classes for the sake of homogeneity. Don’t want certain classes having less unique class mechanics than others) then the Mesmers can be given effects that focus on punishing mistakes, like the confusion condition, but perhaps something other than damage. Of course this is just me secretly asking for hexes to come back, due to all the different things they could do despite being one thing, so to speak.

Honestly, I’ll stick to the updating of our clone AI.

Wouldnt that increase the problem? Because new players would be even more confused when fighting mesmers?

Oh I thought you meant by fear as in, afraid to try it out passed 40. Not as in pvp. Yes, yes, that’ll definitely make it worse in that case.

selan.8354:

Bo Van Swill.7619:

Meet my confusion mesmer still perfecting him but he is nasty already, After the confusion nerf a while back i gave up on confusion but tried it again and loved it in a zerg feedback gives me stacks of confusion on lots of targets

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhIQNAW7fnsISja2pGuqBzaGZ2YO5M/g6kOqoSGQyA-T1yCABAcBAO+hAAouADM5g8RAALlCNpkb59H8R9nsUGMmSwAAIAzcmJzAQKAIWWB-w

errr well i think u got the classic glamour mes build right there but u use de instead of confusing enchantments, but how can u even closely deal any form of dmg if u dont use the donination trait with this?
i did play full glamour for a while this week just so i can tag, but thats the thing: all u do get is tags. u are not the one dealing great dmg to them. u deal some, but its not a real threat anymore. i get hit by glamour mes sometimes and nope not real dmg for me either.
problem with it is the hard to stack issue that doesnt make up for the long cd’s anymore.

Not sure if its classic glamour build or not but i shatter to do my damage

Alasteir.7031:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Alasteir.7031:

Well it definitely serves to muddle the screen with so much crap that it definitely takes its toll on a person’s situational awareness.

For confusion, maybe an updated form of our clone AI in which they attempt to mimic player behavior. Probably asking too much for something like Dragon’s Dogma where the Clones “learn” from your habits and attempt to mimic that. Would be AMAZING though, in my opinion.

Honestly, Mesmer is not a class new players should be playing, unless they’re up to the challenge. Even at release, Mesmers, due to not filling a specific niche in the typical rpg archetypes, in the usual mmos, the Mesmer was a complex profession to play even for mmo veterans.

If they ever end up adding hexes back into the game, or something along the lines of a new type of “condition” that has unique non-condition affects for certain classes (or for all classes for the sake of homogeneity. Don’t want certain classes having less unique class mechanics than others) then the Mesmers can be given effects that focus on punishing mistakes, like the confusion condition, but perhaps something other than damage. Of course this is just me secretly asking for hexes to come back, due to all the different things they could do despite being one thing, so to speak.

Honestly, I’ll stick to the updating of our clone AI.

Wouldnt that increase the problem? Because new players would be even more confused when fighting mesmers?

Oh I thought you meant by fear as in, afraid to try it out passed 40. Not as in pvp. Yes, yes, that’ll definitely make it worse in that case.

Yeah I rephrased the question. But as a I see it, if balancing our class hurts the casual players the worst, then arena net will be very reluctant to help.

I’d change the clone AI to the toxic alliance AI specifically the knights, or if that is to much give clones the ability to dodge and move along a circle with the target at center.

• Condense Glamour Traits in the Inspiration line. By all means, make the combined result a Master Trait. But, it needs done.
• Either: a.) Rework Confusing Enchantments to obey the AoE target limit; or b.) keep it as is, but make it a GM
• Yes on removing the Blinding Befuddlement ICD; it was stupid.
• Revert some of the lost WvW Confusion damage. Honestly, a 50% drop was a bit too too much. 25-33% drop from “base” would have done the bloody job, especially when one considers that Mesmer’s supposed to be the “Confusion” guru.
• Why is the Confusion-on-Interrupt Trait on Warriors, of all things?
• Yes on improving Scepter AA and #3, undecided on #2
• TW as a Glamour. Enough excuses, just do it.
• Yes x1000 on removing Moa. Perhaps an Elite Phantasm or Signet? Hell, why not Time Stop?
• Mind Stab needs to have the effect and AoE of Tazza’s variant. It’s not like the precedent doesn’t already exist in the codebase.
• Revert part of the Power Block hotfix. Sure, leave Autoattacks be, but there’s no
  logical reason it shouldn’t function against Thief #2-#5 skills. That’s just silly, especially since Chill already gets crapcanned against ’em.
• Fix. Frigging. IE. Fix it yesterday.
• Rework IMage. Gods know we’ve brainstormed a buttload of possible ideas, here.
• If we need to “shave” Phantasm damage, either; a.) Remove the stacking of Empowered Illusions with Phantasmal Strength (allows a bit more diversity of how you want to buff your Phants); or b.) Remove EI completely.
  In either case, you want to then restore some of that lost damage to the Mesmer themselves, as class damage is balanced by the existence of Phantasms.
• Rework all GM Traits to be equally desirable. This can be said for any class, though.
• Rework or Replace lesser-used Traits. I’m sure any of us in this forum can name a couple, tbh.

Once these things are finally accomplished, we can at least see the Mesmer class as it should function, and only minor, periodic adjustments would be needed afterward.
MINOR adjustments, Anet! Like what you guys did for Healing Signet, not the WvW Confusion Debacle, or what happened to the old-style D/D Ele.

BlackDevil.9268:

Well I do got a list of things I always wanted for mesmer to change….:

PU got too much in 1. Regen, prot and aegis +1 sec longer stealth is just too
much. Wereas thief loses his stealth when attacking, a mesmer can still deal a
lot damage while being stealthed.

• PU’s buffs should all last 1 second shorter in duration.
• phantasm should get a 5-10% damage nerf
• mind blast should get a blast finisher
• Change mantra of distraction:
  30 seconds cooldown – 2.75 sec casting time
  Meditate, charging a spell that will daze your target.
  Number of casts: 2
  1 second Daze – 1200 yards
  Change it to:
  25 seconds cooldown – 2.25 seconds casting time (*please note that mantra
  casting time should be 2,25 instead of 2,75 Imo. 2.25 is just still a little
  bit too much. 2.5 would do too.)
  Meditate, charging a spell that will daze your target.
  Number of casts: 2
  0.25 second daze – 1200 yards
• Add a new GM trait: GM trait dueling Illusioned Mantra’s:
  Makes all mantra’s area of effect.
• Scepter #1 needs to be reworked and it’s velocity needs to go higher
• Scepter #2 torment needs to be scaled down to 4 stacks
• Scepter #3 needs to be changed to 2.5sec casting time instead of 3 seconds
• Chaos storm should have 40% of it’s ticks be dazes, while applying a
  condition every tick with it too.
• Chaotic Dampening now also provides Chaos storm to have a 20% extra chance
  (so 60% chance) to do daze every tick.
• Chaos storm cooldown has been increased to 40 from 35.
• Illusionary leap needs to be fixed or reworked
• Mimic needs a rework
• Moa needs reworked or replaced by another elite based on aoe lockdown
• Chaos armor needs to become an aura, so it can stack in duration. Blast
  finishers should reward 3 seconds of aura( instead of 2?).
• Blurred frenzy should be reworked to 6x hitting from 8x, but have it’s total
  damage remain the same and the casting time too.
• Increasing blurred frenzy’s distortion with 0.25sec to match it’s casting
  time
• On clone death traits have an internal cooldown of 2 seconds, but have it’s
  duration increased by 25% to compensate.
• Blinding befuddlement got his internal cooldown removed
• Blinding befuddlement moved to grandmaster trait
• Imbued diversion moved to master trait, this trait works in combination with
  Illusionary persona
• Casting time of all mantra’s has been reduced to 2.25 sec casting time from
  2.75
• Arcane thievery cooldown has been reduced to 40 seconds from 45
• Feedback has it’s cooldown reduced to 35 from 40
• Into the void it’s cooldown has been reduced to 0.5 seconds from 1 second.
• Temportal Curtain now gives 3 seconds of swiftness to allies walking through
  the Curtain who already got swiftness.
• Restorative Illusions now heals aoe radius of 360 up to 5 allies
• Cleansing inscriptions now allows you to remove 2 conditions when using a
  signet from 1.
• Shattered Strength (25 minor trait illusions) now grants 2 stacks of might
  for 10 seconds up from 1 stack.
• Cry of frustration has it’s damage increased by 25% and now applies 4
  seconds of confusion up from 3 seconds.
• Restorative Mantra’s now scales 1.0 instead of 0.2 with healing power.
• Signet of inspiration now gives 1 random boon every 8 seconds instead of 10
  and has its cooldown reduced to 30 seconds. This signet now only copy’s up to
  5 boon instead of all.
• Signet of domination has its cooldown reduced to 35 seconds and it’s stun
  duration reduced to 2 seconds down from 3.
• Signet of illusions has it’s cooldown reduced to 60 seconds.
• Signet of Midnight has it’s cooldown reduced to 15 seconds. Or! Signet of
  midnight is now a blast finisher, reduced its cooldown to 25 seconds.
• Power Block: Sets auto attacks and thief skills on a 5 seconds cooldown and increases the interrupt cooldown from 5 to 10 seconds.

Why can’t you balance this game? You read my mind. On clone death should have a 5 second internal cooldown. Other skills need to be looked at like Mirror of Anguish, reduce cooldown to 45seconds. I also think arcane thievery needs no casttime. Its really buggy even with the 1200 range. I think it’d help the skill a lot.