Guild Wars 2

Currently the #1 scepter on mesmer, is under whelming. Even with the faster speed. Why not have it summon a clone on every hit?

Currently the autoattack is aweful. You’d have to spec into it to do damage, and well you mostly want this for the cond stacking. If it summoned an illusion every single time this could be awesome for shatter builds, as well as for ‘on illusion death’ builds. Would really shine as weapon. Currently my feeling is that the #1 is mostly worthless. The illusions aren’t built fast enough for it to be useful.

Your post is disjointed and makes no recognizable points. Your title refers to the scepter, while the post refers to the staff. You mention “spec into it to do damage” but you don’t spec into an autoattack, and condition stacking that you mention afterwards would be from staff autoattacks. Figure out what you’re trying to say, and what weapon you’re trying to say it for, and then you might get a response.

Why not just have each attack cause 3sec confusion, like ele earth dagger 1 causes bleeds?

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

Why not just have each attack cause 3sec confusion, like ele earth dagger 1 causes bleeds?

I mentioned this in my explanation, but you may not be familiar with what happened. The original form of the scepter, in the press beta weekend event, iirc, and the trident as well, through BWE2, applied confusion on the first skill of the chain of autoattacks. This is why that is described on the tooltip still. However, it turns out that spawning 3 clones and letting them autoattack, combining with the extra confusion spikes from shattering, caused a mesmer to be able to keep ~10 stacks of confusion on the target at all times. In a condition damage build, this is 3k damage per skill use. Note that cleansing this confusion does nothing, as it will simply be reapplied in <3 seconds. This was nerfed, both on scepter and trident, although trident clones still apply confusion (and it’s buggy, as the confusion will actually be applied to friendlies sometimes). This is why the scepter autoattack can’t apply confusion on all attacks.

Additionally, confusion is a much more powerful condition than bleed, with the potential to do far more damage, and so needs to be less stackable accordingly.

Many changes happened since beta in addition to the removal of the condition on the auto attacks though. Lower durations, weaker clones, spvp split, etc. Now you have a confusion that’s worthwhile in pvp, but completely an afterthought in pve. Reinstating confusion back onto scepter, or scepter clones would not have the same impact from way back in beta, considering the nerfs.

Its certainly worth a second look, considering the current state of trident clones don’t have people up in pitchforks.

Putting more clones on Sceptre 1 is redundant to extreme proportions. You’d be generating more clones than you would know what to do with.

SoulStichMMO

Why not just have each attack cause 3sec confusion, like ele earth dagger 1 causes bleeds?

This is much more reasonable and I’ve been campaigning for something similar to this for weeks now.

Hildebert.4196:

Putting more clones on Sceptre 1 is redundant to extreme proportions. You’d be generating more clones than you would know what to do with.

There are several mesmer abilities that operate on death, like random condition, confusion, and snare.

How about a compromise.

What about on the second hit?
Attack, attack/clone, attack, attack/clone, attack….
so every other

Just fix the attack speed, don’t mess with the mechanics. Making confusion part of the attack chain will make the scepter a weapon useful only for confusion. If that’s your build, having more clones through faster attacks is great for shatter fodder, and if it isn’t, you still might go for scepter using clones in other ways… And an attack speed boost would directly increase damage as well.

Maybe you forgot, but when you summon a clone, every enemy automatically deselects you. The auto attack would effectively spam “do not target me”. That’s troubling.

Unpredictability.4086:

Maybe you forgot, but when you summon a clone, every enemy automatically deselects you. The auto attack would effectively spam “do not target me”. That’s troubling.

That’s not entirely true, that’s not how it works at all. Enemy AI is far from that straightforward.

Unpredictability.4086:

Maybe you forgot, but when you summon a clone, every enemy automatically deselects you. The auto attack would effectively spam “do not target me”. That’s troubling.

That’s only for phantasm, and even then only at the start of a fight.

Personally, I’d rather have the clone removed from the auto attack and have a defintely better use of auto attack, which would stack a condition (probably not confusion as there is #3) maybe poison, weakness or … something.
I mean, seriously, mesmers need a reliable alternative weapon for condition builds PLUS the scepter is supposedly designed for condition damage (as speccing into it adds condition damage, seems legit) so why having a mechanic that has absolutely nothing to do with condition and based on direct damage (attack) ?
Does not make sense to me.
Finally, shatter builds are more happy with GS/Staff, so I don’t get the point in keeping clone factory on scepter …

KratosAngel.7289:

Personally, I’d rather have the clone removed from the auto attack and have a defintely better use of auto attack, which would stack a condition (probably not confusion as there is #3) maybe poison, weakness or … something.
I mean, seriously, mesmers need a reliable alternative weapon for condition builds PLUS the scepter is supposedly designed for condition damage (as speccing into it adds condition damage, seems legit) so why having a mechanic that has absolutely nothing to do with condition and based on direct damage (attack) ?
Does not make sense to me.

I see nothing wrong with giving a stack of confusion to the sceptre auto attack. After all, elementalists get burning on their autoattack and their #2 when using sceptre in fire attunement. Putting a stack of confusion on the sceptre #1 would give us a reliable source of confusion which would help strengthen the already weak confusion builds.

Confusion builds right now rely too much on large, slow, difficult to perform, and long cooldown stacks of confusion. They’re one trick ponies and that one trick has a high probability of failure. Giving mesmer a reliable source of a small amount of confusion with a short cooldown would help mitigate the enormous amount of downtime and give them a fighting chance when a combo inevitably goes horribly wrong.

Yes yes lets give us more ways to spawn clones, as if we don’t already have enough.
We’re fine as we are.

I actually dont like confusion because honestly is useless for now in PvE (your lucky if you get 1 hit of conf. on mob) and even in PvP where is still hard to stack confusion or even apply it and yet is so easy to cleanse yourself from it. I dont recommend making the scepter a confusion based weapon. That would really limit the use of the scepter to be played only if your running a confusion build, thats not the purpose of a fix. Make it a condition based not necessarily confusion or make it a support based weapon applying pure boons instead of conditions a la Trident sort of, and of course make it as fast too like the guardians auto skill #1 or the tridents.

I am in favor of the first autoattack causing a condition, so the clones created by it are more useful (they are currently useful for shatters, distraction and so on). Preferably that would be confusion, balanced in duration to account for a clone or two using it alongside you. If confusion is really too strong use another condition, or give it a random mix of 2 or 3. Maybe confusion or daze or chill on hit, since they all have the shared theme of messing with the target’s skills.

For Staff:
I believe the Autoattacks need to be slightly faster or have a chain of some sort. The way it is now makes it worthless as a ranged poke, although the debuff/bounce is nice (but still kinda bad unless you spec into another bounce).

For Scepter:
Make it not spawn clones, please. In PvE dungeons, I want to have an auto attack poke that will synergize with 3 Phantasms for long-drawn out boss fights. Currently, I’m forced to run Sword/X and Staff so that I can actually get a decent Autoattack in between cooldowns. I wouldn’t mind Scepter poke, but I hate having to stop every 2 attacks to not spawn a clone.

Master Bei Shun.1267:

For Scepter:
Make it not spawn clones, please. In PvE dungeons, I want to have an auto attack poke that will synergize with 3 Phantasms for long-drawn out boss fights. Currently, I’m forced to run Sword/X and Staff so that I can actually get a decent Autoattack in between cooldowns. I wouldn’t mind Scepter poke, but I hate having to stop every 2 attacks to not spawn a clone.

Why not swap if that`s your concern

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

Master Bei Shun.1267:

For Scepter:
Make it not spawn clones, please. In PvE dungeons, I want to have an auto attack poke that will synergize with 3 Phantasms for long-drawn out boss fights. Currently, I’m forced to run Sword/X and Staff so that I can actually get a decent Autoattack in between cooldowns. I wouldn’t mind Scepter poke, but I hate having to stop every 2 attacks to not spawn a clone.

Why not swap if that`s your concern

Staff + Scepter/X is a pain to constantly swap with, and GS is a nice poke, but it’s 2H and I like having my offhand. I feel like Pistols should also be MH or Scepters should be changed a tad. Just my thoughts.

For PvP, I feel Scepter is fine, but in PvE, unless you’re running clone-factory to fuel shatters, it’s not worth it.

Really this is a bad suggestion. Clone death skills would be supercharged. Just ask for the scepter auto attack to apply aoe cripple, confusion, and weakness/bleed/vulnerability, while giving you nearly full uptime of 9% less damage taken, 9% more damage dealt, and/or 15% runspeed.

(I know it doesn’t all fit in one build, you have to drop one. Still, this is very poorly thought out.)

I’d also like to see a 2 attack combo instead of 3. Inflicting a short duration, non stackable status (weakness, poison, burn) with the first attack and spawn a clone (with at least the current casttime of the third hit) with the second.
This might turn the scepter into a used weapon again.

Nretep.2564:

I’d also like to see a 2 attack combo instead of 3. Inflicting a short duration, non stackable status (weakness, poison, burn) with the first attack and spawn a clone (with at least the current casttime of the third hit) with the second.
This might turn the scepter into a used weapon again.

This is a good idea, though I’d like to see the first condition have a bit more kick to it.

Long post incoming If you cba (I don’t blame you :o) skip to the bold line.

Adding a new effect to the auto attack will not fix the scepter. It needs a conceptual redesign.

The main hand sword currently completely and totally outclasses the scepter in offence, defence, support and control. The sword can

Improve the damage of the whole team (vulnerability)
Remove boons
2 second invulnerability every 10s untraited
Large spike damage in 2s channel
Cripple
Gap close
Immobilise
Leap finisher

The scepter can
Summon clones, slowly
Block one attack
Blind, which blocks one attack
Confuse with moderate damage on a 3second channel
900 range

Let’s address each scepter point.

You don’t need a weapon designed around being a clone factory. Even with max guile and the shatters recharging at 50% hp trait, the common sPvP shatter builds have 3 illusions up waiting for a shatter to come off cooldown. If you want to play a shatter based build, you are not going to rely on the slow production of clones from the scepter auto attack when you can pop out 3 clones in 1 second flat from other sources.

The block/blind just isn’t even worth discussing. Blurred Frenzy is quite clearly infinitely times better than the scepter’s excuse for a defence ever will be. The only argument to be made is the blind can support allies, but it is far too slow to be used reliably.

Whilst the sword gets all that defensive power in the same skill as its offensive strength, the scepter’s offence is shafted into skill 3. This is a hilariously long channel with a giant purple beam and audio cue. Any competent human player with a shred of experience in dealing with this skill is not going to be taking any reasonable amount of damage from it. In PvE, mobs attack far too slow for the confusion to be useful.

As for the range, it is really irrelevant. 900 isn’t huge. The sword comes with gap closer and complete invulnerability while you dish out the pain. If I’m unable to get in range, I’m switching to one of my ranged 2 handers.

The scepter is completely outclassed in every way possible and the only people using it are those absolutely adamant that confusion based builds are viable in any game format. Even if we conclude they are, the glaringly obvious 3 second channel that basically screams “Don’t cast anything!” still leaves a question mark over the viability of the scepter when running them. When you make a skill have clear cues to its use, it’s because the skill is supposed to be deadly. For example, the Guild Wars 1 Backfire made the foe take damage roughly equivalent to 20% of their HP for daring to use a skill. It actually made the foe think twice about casting, and therefore the clear cues that you had BF on you were perfectly justifiable. If anything, they made Backfire stronger as the foe was often forced to stop casting until it was gone. Confusion deals far too little damage in GW2, most likely because it also affects auto attacking. In order for confusion to be remotely useful you are relying on the foe not noticing they have it stacked up on them, which isn’t going to happen with Confusing Images.

Anet need to realise they can buff the numbers of the scepter until the cows come home, but nothing short of a complete redesign (of either the scepter or confusion) is going to make this weapon competitively viable. Or, alternatively, the complete annihilation of the sword’s strength.

My own personal suggestion would be to make the scepter into a condition based support weapon. Let the auto attack apply a condition (not confusion), make 2 create a small area of reflection around the mesmer, similar to the guardian’s Protector’s Strike. If there is no incoming attack for the full duration, nearby allies gain a defensive boon, perhaps vigor. Make 3 a ground targetted AoE ethereal field (which allows confusion to be stacked significantly higher with team coordination). As for where to stick the clone summon… 2 maybe?

That is entirely off the top of my head in 5 minutes. I’m not saying it’s a balanced solution or even a good one, but it gives you a basic idea of the direction I think the scepter could take on its route to viability.

ChaosStar.3162:

Long post incoming …

wow! really nice post and I totally agree with you and could not write it better!

about your suggestions and redesign… I don’t know. but if I use a sword while running a confusion/condition build in tpvp something is wrong with scepter Imo. hopefully the big patch will fix it ;P

ChaosStar.3162:

Long post incoming

Great points. The disparity between the two main-hand options really sucks, esp. for people trying to use two dual-wield sets.

I’ve played with using two main-hand swords. Its cooldowns are short anyway, and can be shortened even more with the dueling 20 trait.

This allows you to use two off-hands without kittening yourself with a scepter.

Am I the only one that actually LIKES the scepter.
I use it all the time with a staff in the other hand.

This is my reasoning.

If I move close, my auto attack on scepter is not bad at all. Even better I have a haste proc so that about every 45s it just rocks! Pew pew pew like crazy.

I use the confusion when kiting around and changing position to continue doing dmg.

I get cripple when something kills my clones, don’t need cripple from a sword.

Vulnerability I get again from traits by shattering the boogers.

The range is much better than the sword so I can start a fight earlier and keep an enemy farther away during one.

Go up to a practice dummy in lions arch, go w/in 130 range as if you had a sword on with a scepter and see how it works, it’s not slow. Every third hit you make the clone so if you want close range you get free shatters vs the sword.

I already know how ArenaNet is going to address the balance of the scepter when it comes to comparing it with the much more useful in every single way “sword”. Clearly we all know how to fix the scepter or at least most of us Mesmer users that play every format and know the disadvantages and advantages do in every format do. And here’s ArenaNet solution to the sword vs scepter to at least make the scepter a visible opion in the game for mesmer users …. Ready!!? …. Lets nerf the sword!!! remove one invulnerability from the chain attack, and the remove a boon on hit also lets make blurry frenzy a single target just like the scepters #3 skill that confuses which is also single target and there!! we have officially balanced both of the off hand weapons.

i made a thread not long about how kitten*y scepter is and from reading all i learned is that people are fine with this useless weapon and told me to use something else if i don’t like it LOL its not me who doesn’t like it, ITS BROKEN trash with not a single useful skill.