I just wanted to make this thread so that everyone knows what ways there are for save or relatively safe finishing. I wanted to do this, because I for instance wasn’t aware of the stomp with Phase Retreat and Blink until some days ago .
Ways to finish (relatively) safe:
Distortion
Make yourself invulnerable to damage and interrupt abilities of the downed players and his allies.
Signet of Midnight
Blind the downed player when he is about to use an interrupt ability. Requires precise timing and watching the downed players actions. With the trait Blurred Inscriptions the signet also grants Distortion and makes it more forgiving to unprecise timing (pointed out by Iavra.8510).
Stealth
Make yourself invisible, so the downed player can not use any ability requiring a target. Can also be used to throw off a downed thief’s timing when he tries to teleport away (explained by ASP.8093). With the trait Prismatic Understanding you have a chance of even gaining Aegis (pointed out by Iavra.8510).
Blink
Follow a downed thief, after he has teleported away. You can also throw the timing of downed foes off with a cancel of the stomp and restarting it, allowing you to blinkfinish elementalists and mesmers quicker (explained by Ross Biddle.2367).
Phase Retreat & Blink
Phase retreat away from the downed foe after the finishing animation started to avoid close range interrupt and damaging abilities and then blink back to execute the finish.
Portal
Place portal, one part far and one close to the downed foe. Teleport away from the downed foe after the finishing animation started to avoid interrupt and damaging abilities and then teleport back to execute the finish. Depending on portal placement you can protect yourself completely from interrupting and damaging abilities of your foe.
Power Break
Use stability to avoid interrupt abilities while finishing.
Diversion
Interrupt allies of the downed foe to prevent them from healing up the downed one or from interrupting/damaging you while finishing (explained by Curunen.8729). It is unsure if Diversion can interrupt a downed foe. It seems that is not the case (pointed out by Fay.2357, also tested by Curunen.8729)
Also Diversion – either to interrupt downed enemy, or more importantly if someone is rezzing the downed enemy you can quickly switch target while stomping and use Diversion to interrupt the res. This has secured me a stomp on many occasions.
Edit: This kind of requires IP to to work best.
Interrupting the downed enemy somehow never works for me…
Another way would be any signet + that invul trait.
Any stealth + PU can work, if it procs Aegis, same for Chaos Storm, but is unreliable.
Requires pinpoint timing and sometimes a bit of luck. I know ele mistform can’t be interrupted – never bother stomping before they’ve ported unless using quickness or long duration stealth or something (EDIT: unless you’re feeling incredibly lucky to land a blink stomp on their vapour form), but I’m pretty sure all the rest of the #2 can be, even thief/mes ports – unless I have been grossly misled and the total number of thieves and mesmers that have simply not bothered to use #2 while I’m stomping is much much higher than I thought it to be.
But the switch target, Diversion on second enemy performing the res is invaluable.
Blinkstomping eles only works if they vapor form as soon as you start stomping, and even then only with 1200 range blink if they move in a straight line.
Since most players tend to use their downed skill at the last possible moment, i’d advise having a hammer guard, rifle engi, x/D ele or anything with a launch (not knockback) with you. Launching the downed enemy ~0.5-1s before the stomp ends will prevent him from doing anything and still be in range for the stomp.
Blinkstomping eles only works if they vapor form as soon as you start stomping, and even then only with 1200 range blink if they move in a straight line.
Since most players tend to use their downed skill at the last possible moment, i’d advise having a hammer guard, rifle engi, x/D ele or anything with a launch (not knockback) with you. Launching the downed enemy ~1s before the stomp ends will prevent him from doing anything and still be in range for the stomp.
Sadly mesmers don’t have any launches.
That’s why I said if you’re feeling incredibly lucky. Might as well buy a lottery ticket on the same day! ;D
I can probably count the number of successful vapour form stomps on one hand, and kind of requires a very bad ele or more players cluttering the screen to make them panic, although it is kitten satisfying.
but I’m pretty sure all the rest of the #2 can be, even thief/mes ports – unless I have been grossly misled and the total number of thieves and mesmers that have simply not bothered to use #2 while I’m stomping is much much higher than I thought it to be.
Mes port is a guaranteed stomp stopper. If used at the proper time, it leaves you in stealth for the landing of the stomp, stopping it. It’s not the teleport that does that.
Thief port is nearly impossible to stomp if they’re good. The teleport is instant, so they can time it just before you land, and you simply can’t react fast enough.
Blinkstomping eles only works if they vapor form as soon as you start stomping, and even then only with 1200 range blink if they move in a straight line.
Since most players tend to use their downed skill at the last possible moment, i’d advise having a hammer guard, rifle engi, x/D ele or anything with a launch (not knockback) with you. Launching the downed enemy ~0.5-1s before the stomp ends will prevent him from doing anything and still be in range for the stomp.
Sadly mesmers don’t have any launches.
With Ele’s bait mist form by starting the stomp, canceling it, and restarting it. Ele will initiate mist form at the start of your second stomp allowing you to time the blink to where it’ll come to an end. Mesmers, same deal.
but I’m pretty sure all the rest of the #2 can be, even thief/mes ports – unless I have been grossly misled and the total number of thieves and mesmers that have simply not bothered to use #2 while I’m stomping is much much higher than I thought it to be.
Mes port is a guaranteed stomp stopper. If used at the proper time, it leaves you in stealth for the landing of the stomp, stopping it. It’s not the teleport that does that.
Thief port is nearly impossible to stomp if they’re good. The teleport is instant, so they can time it just before you land, and you simply can’t react fast enough.
I wish there was an easy way to carry out some tests – while I know what you say is pretty much always right, I can’t shake the feeling that I couldn’ve sworn on many occasions that Diversion interrupted a mesmer downed port for instance, and most other things apart from ele #2. But similarly on many other occasions I seemed to time it perfectly only for it not to work, as you said.
I’m not sure if there could be a bug in there, that it is possible for it to work, but in the end all down to luck.
but I’m pretty sure all the rest of the #2 can be, even thief/mes ports – unless I have been grossly misled and the total number of thieves and mesmers that have simply not bothered to use #2 while I’m stomping is much much higher than I thought it to be.
Mes port is a guaranteed stomp stopper. If used at the proper time, it leaves you in stealth for the landing of the stomp, stopping it. It’s not the teleport that does that.
Thief port is nearly impossible to stomp if they’re good. The teleport is instant, so they can time it just before you land, and you simply can’t react fast enough.
I wish there was an easy way to carry out some tests – while I know what you say is pretty much always right, I can’t shake the feeling that I couldn’ve sworn on many occasions that Diversion interrupted a mesmer downed port for instance, and most other things apart from ele #2. But similarly on many other occasions I seemed to time it perfectly only for it not to work, as you said.
I’m not sure if there could be a bug in there, that it is possible for it to work, but in the end all down to luck.
You can interrupt downed channel skills. That doesn’t necessarily mean a daze will put downed skills into cd.
but I’m pretty sure all the rest of the #2 can be, even thief/mes ports – unless I have been grossly misled and the total number of thieves and mesmers that have simply not bothered to use #2 while I’m stomping is much much higher than I thought it to be.
Mes port is a guaranteed stomp stopper. If used at the proper time, it leaves you in stealth for the landing of the stomp, stopping it. It’s not the teleport that does that.
Thief port is nearly impossible to stomp if they’re good. The teleport is instant, so they can time it just before you land, and you simply can’t react fast enough.
I wish there was an easy way to carry out some tests – while I know what you say is pretty much always right, I can’t shake the feeling that I couldn’ve sworn on many occasions that Diversion interrupted a mesmer downed port for instance, and most other things apart from ele #2. But similarly on many other occasions I seemed to time it perfectly only for it not to work, as you said.
I’m not sure if there could be a bug in there, that it is possible for it to work, but in the end all down to luck.
You can interrupt downed channel skills. That doesn’t necessarily mean a daze will put downed skills into cd.
Hmm. Ok I just tested with the warrior in HotM to try and interrupt the hammer, but you’re right it doesn’t work.
I think what must be happening is the Diversion interrupt of #1 or #4 (which comes up with the usual “Interrupt” message on screen) causing a split second delay in action for the downed player, where they hesitate before pressing #2 or #3 – which comes across as a percieved interrupt for #2, when that is in fact not true.
Edit: I would usually wait until the last possible moment of the stomp before hitting daze, to try and prevent the #2, but in reality the daze interrupts the #1 and depending on the downed player’s reflexes they either hesitate and fail to use #2 (for the thief or mesmer ports for example) – which makes it look like the daze has interrupted the port – or they successfully use #2 which makes it looks like the interrupt has failed.
Anyway, to sum up what I’ve learnt now – save Diversion to interrupt the res; no point wasting it on downed enemies themselves.
In my experience, the most effective thing against both thief and mesmer downed state is either to have two players start stomping at different times (if your victim doesn’t port, your friend gets him; if he does port to stop the first stomp, you have time to Blink to him and finish), or to do a fakeout using stealth (don’t stomp right away after you start; they’ll port and you’ll still have some time on your animation to do the Blink).
(Or, playing thief, I could stomp other thieves pretty reliably by hitting Steal or Infiltrator’s Signet — both player-targeted ports so you don’t have to place the circle — at the very last moment of my stomp animation. There’s no skill like that for mesmers.)
~
With eles in WvW or fighting on point, the most important thing is to apply soft CC before they mistform. Then at least they don’t go anywhere and and you can just stomp them later or kill them with cleaves/area-effects while fighting their friends. Especially useful if you’re fighting in front of a tower.
On the subject of blink stomping, both thieves, mesmers and eles – while it has always worked on thieves and eles, I’m sure they changed something early this year or late last year for blink stomping mesmers.
It was possible to either
- initiate stomp on Mesmer -> blink to Mesmer after reappearing from Deception (requires bad/panicky Mesmer)
- initiate stomp on clone -> blink to Mesmer on reappearing.
But in say the last 6 months or so, neither of those work any more. Is there some hidden change Anet did to affect this? It’s making me doubt my own sanity, but I swear both these methods worked in the past.
EDIT: Ah, is it to do with when they introduced fast cast ground targeting with range indicator? I used to use instant ground targeting before that, but ever since using fast cast with range indicator, blink stomping mesmers has failed to work. Is anyone who still uses instant ground targeting still able to do this? If so I may switch back to it.
I use the standard cast mode (press once → move circle → press again or mouseclick) and i’m still able to stomp the real mesmer after he reappears, even if i have to blink.
I don’t think i’ve been able to start stomping the clone and blink to the real mesmer, however. That’d be like stomping a different player and has never worked.
We can still level up… ;D
(arranges epic scene with phantasms killing an npc just at the right time to level up and launch an enemy and blink-stomp him)
I am pretty sure diversion (daze) can interrupt downed skill, once I did two blinkstomp on ele+dazestomp on ranger. Mainly, downing ele, blinkstomping that dude, dazestomp the ranger that I down, and lastley, when blink is off CD, I do another blinkstomp
But I have to admit it’s pretty hard to get a successful interrupt with the daze skill o:
How to crashreport…
Someone say game crash must be related to OOM
when you read the log it’s not related to that whatsoever…
I am pretty sure diversion (daze) can interrupt downed skill, once I did two blinkstomp on ele+dazestomp on ranger. Mainly, downing ele, blinkstomping that dude, dazestomp the ranger that I down, and lastley, when blink is off CD, I do another blinkstomp
But I have to admit it’s pretty hard to get a successful interrupt with the daze skill o:
Well, you’re wrong. Go test it out instead of just providing anecdotes about when it seems to have worked. You’ll see that you can’t daze a downed person.
I am pretty sure diversion (daze) can interrupt downed skill, once I did two blinkstomp on ele+dazestomp on ranger. Mainly, downing ele, blinkstomping that dude, dazestomp the ranger that I down, and lastley, when blink is off CD, I do another blinkstomp
But I have to admit it’s pretty hard to get a successful interrupt with the daze skill o:
Well, you’re wrong. Go test it out instead of just providing anecdotes about when it seems to have worked. You’ll see that you can’t daze a downed person.
You cannot apply the “daze” effect, but the interrupt effect will still apply. so daze downed enemies does work, however they might be able to use the skill again, but if timed correctly it will be too late for them to use it again
How to crashreport…
Someone say game crash must be related to OOM
when you read the log it’s not related to that whatsoever…
I am pretty sure diversion (daze) can interrupt downed skill, once I did two blinkstomp on ele+dazestomp on ranger. Mainly, downing ele, blinkstomping that dude, dazestomp the ranger that I down, and lastley, when blink is off CD, I do another blinkstomp
But I have to admit it’s pretty hard to get a successful interrupt with the daze skill o:
Well, you’re wrong. Go test it out instead of just providing anecdotes about when it seems to have worked. You’ll see that you can’t daze a downed person.
You cannot apply the “daze” effect, but the interrupt effect will still apply. so daze downed enemies does work, however they might be able to use the skill again, but if timed correctly it will be too late for them to use it again
Maybe you’ll see an interrupt floater, but you can’t interrupt downed skills.
Interrupting a downed state skill procs all your interrupt traits but doesn’t actually stop the skill. This is most notable on the NPC Necromancer where a 3 clone daze shatter will proc 3 interrupts in a row on both the lifesteal and fear skills.
Conchis – Tchuu Tchuu I’m A Train [TCHU] – Gandara
Interrupting a downed state skill procs all your interrupt traits but doesn’t actually stop the skill. This is most notable on the NPC Necromancer where a 3 clone daze shatter will proc 3 interrupts in a row on both the lifesteal and fear skills.
Good to know – so at best it is giving the illusion of interrupting a downed skill, when in reality it is hesitation of the downed player that makes it look like an interrupt – and this also explains the perceived inconsistency (in that there is no inconsistency – only whether the downed player decides to use a skill while the interrupt floater shows, or hesitates and fails to do so).
Interrupting a downed state skill procs all your interrupt traits but doesn’t actually stop the skill. This is most notable on the NPC Necromancer where a 3 clone daze shatter will proc 3 interrupts in a row on both the lifesteal and fear skills.
I’m not disagreeing with you in general, but I just want to point out that the training NPCs are weird and don’t always match player mechanics. For example, if you both get down at the same time, they may get up and stomp you. Also killing them doesn’t trigger any kill procs from equipment or traits. Also their evades all say “block.” They’re… messed up.
Aye they are very different so it may not be that helpful it was actually a right pain to get the Necromancer to use the fear. I’ll nab a guild mate tomorrow and see whats what with interrupting those skills on real players.
Conchis – Tchuu Tchuu I’m A Train [TCHU] – Gandara
(Or, playing thief, I could stomp other thieves pretty reliably by hitting Steal or Infiltrator’s Signet — both player-targeted ports so you don’t have to place the circle — at the very last moment of my stomp animation. There’s no skill like that for mesmers.)
Ignoring bugginess and counterability(not to mention getting shredded by bouncing projectiles)… is this entirely true, though? Couldn’t ILeap+Swap possibly used in a similar manner? (Not the best tactic, I grant; thieves have bouncing projectiles, mesmers will be in stealth when Swap is no longer available, and Eles can just get far enough away period, but any those three not playing well presents an oppourtunity.)
(Or, playing thief, I could stomp other thieves pretty reliably by hitting Steal or Infiltrator’s Signet — both player-targeted ports so you don’t have to place the circle — at the very last moment of my stomp animation. There’s no skill like that for mesmers.)
Ignoring bugginess and counterability(not to mention getting shredded by bouncing projectiles)… is this entirely true, though? Couldn’t ILeap+Swap possibly used in a similar manner? (Not the best tactic, I grant; thieves have bouncing projectiles, mesmers will be in stealth when Swap is no longer available, and Eles can just get far enough away period, but any those three not playing well presents an oppourtunity.)
What I use:
- torch;
- distortion;
- fake stomp (start animation, quit, stealth, start stomp for thief);
- only stealth for mesmer and necro;
- diversion at right moment to hope to gain that kitten second.
Ok really weird thing happened today – was stomping an engi, distortion on cooldown so I thought great opportunity to test Diversion for the sake of it.
2 clones up, mid stomp – engi prepares to use his interrupt – I hit Diversion – as expected does not prevent him from getting the interrupt off – interrupted me mid stomp – however a moment later it is a successful stomp. No discernable lag that I could see, so no idea what happened.
If I recall correctly a similar thing happened a few matches before that, although I can’t remember the exact situation or who I was stomping. Assuming it must be lag related or something, although can’t see why it would happen.
I just hit em from afar with a greatsword burst 2 4 3 and it’s pretty much a death sentence. I do like the sword 2 distortion and power break. use those too
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