Guild Wars 2

We all know it’s coming because of berserker shatter mesmer’s and that bug with shatter.

Shatter is all that mesmers really have left, so I don’t see them nerfing it… just fixing the bug… which is still kinda funny since there are tons of bugs that kitten the mesmer that have been around for ages.

Shatter is not all the mesmer have left, people are just copy pasting an easy and effective build, then get used to it.

But yeah, we all know it is coming.

Krispera.5087:

Shatter is not all the mesmer have left, people are just copy pasting an easy and effective build, then get used to it.

But yeah, we all know it is coming.

Yea sorry mesmers also have portals and time warp. My bad.

I guess it’s time to rev up that guardian, again.

Emanuel.9781:

I guess it’s time to rev up that guardian, again.

I’ve rolled one just in case, lmao. Crazy how we have the same idea.

Aberrant.6749:

Krispera.5087:

Shatter is not all the mesmer have left, people are just copy pasting an easy and effective build, then get used to it.

But yeah, we all know it is coming.

Yea sorry mesmers also have portals and time warp. My bad.

There is more than that.
Just look at FLIMPY his vids for example.
He even uses a scepter and torch, 2 generally considered underpowered mesmer weapons.

Just fix the bug. why nerf?

xizod.9513:

Just fix the bug. why nerf?

Becasuse fixing the bug IS a nerf, at least relatively. And that’s how some folks like to see things. Just because you’re balanced means it’s time to reroll. Any sort of challenge would be entirely unacceptable.

Ironvos.9014:

Aberrant.6749:

Krispera.5087:

Shatter is not all the mesmer have left, people are just copy pasting an easy and effective build, then get used to it.

But yeah, we all know it is coming.

Yea sorry mesmers also have portals and time warp. My bad.

There is more than that.
Just look at FLIMPY his vids for example.
He even uses a scepter and torch, 2 generally considered underpowered mesmer weapons.

(Disclaimer: This is only my opinion)
>Scepter and Torch
>even remotely or possibly ever good in pve

I don’t know what that guy’s videos are about, but i guess it’s about pvp.
They can fix the bugs for all i care, i haven’t made use of them, but if they decide to actively nerf shatters(mainly the boons you can gain), then there is pretty much no reason left to not reroll to guard/warrior/ele if you want to be (really) efficient in group setups.

To the guy above me, been playing mesmer since 3 months and have sticked through, even when they brought in the extreme nerfs, adapted and moved on. But if they decide to nerf the only viable thing that’s left for Mesmers(in PVE, i don’t give a rat’s kitten about the pvp at the moment, since it’s imbalanced from the core), then i don’t know either.

Phantasms are rather subpar right now. I mean really, how long does a phantasm survive in (high level) fractals or any harder dungeon? I’m happy if my i-Warden can land half of it’s attack before getting shreddered. They’re all shatter fodder. i-Berserker does complete kitten damage since they decided to nerf it to the ground, the warlock and swordsman are so much better than that one.

A possible “nerf” to mesmer burst i could think of is, reduce mind wrack’s damage by 33%, reduce the (traited) cooldown of mind wrack from 12 to 9s. Something like that, or simply reduce base damage(which would be the easy way out). Just don’t touch shattered strength. This is the first time we Mesmers can keep up high stacks of might consistently like other classes.

Worst case/best case nerfs?

Lol, hilarious. These forums are getting ridiculous. Wouldn’t consider a re roll if they wouldn’t break so much each time the “fix” a bug in our class.

My guess is that our next patch will be something like

Mesmer:
-Mind Wrack damage decreased by 20%
-Fixed a bug involving shattering clones multiple times to stack damage.
-Increased bunker build time portal cooldown time by 30 seconds.
-Increased duration/damage of [insert god awful trait here] by [insert miniscule amount of time here]

A double (and unneeded) nerf to shatters, more attempts to discourage portal usage, and the tiniest buff possible to “encourage other types of builds.”

They should NOT change shattered strength. Fix the 3→2 bug but don’t nerf the only thing a mesmer can do decently. If they decrease damage from shatters wtf am i supposed to run in pve? Phantasms builds suck cuz of garbage traits/bugged skills and lack of aoe. All we have is shatter. If you’re one of those useless mesmers spamming torch/scepter in pve telling yourself its good, okay, good for you lolz but i want to be useful to my team and able to kill something in pvp. If they nerf Shattered Strength to give something like 2 stacks per illusion then they better change those useless traits that gives you X thing per rupt and give us traits that will be good for phantasm builds and shatter ones.

If Anet just fixes the shatter bug, all is good. It makes us too bursty, and well it is a bug, so fix it!

If Anet instead decides to take the opportunity and nerf our damage as a whole again, it would really show yet again what amateurs they are when it comes to monitoring and balancing a modern MMO.

i don’t rly care about it, im weird tank mesmer who don’t use shaters ^^

I missed this shatter bug, what exactly is bugged about shatter?

tqhx.2190:

I missed this shatter bug, what exactly is bugged about shatter?

There’s no bug. People assume it’s a bug because ANet hasn’t commented on it. It has to do with using a Shatter 2 or 3 and then popping out 3 more clones and hitting Mind Wrack so that you get the additional clone count for damage scaling.

Personally I think the scaling was intended, I just don’t think they expected people to get7-9 clones being counted in the shatter scale. To fix the issue they simply just need to cap the shatter scaling at a max of 5 or 6 clones. It’s not even really an issue for the most part since it has been around since beta, but now that more people are aware of it there’s been an endless stream of QQ threads.

tqhx.2190:

I missed this shatter bug, what exactly is bugged about shatter?

Appearently you can increase the damage MW deals by doing shatter inputs quick enough, MW’ing when there’s more than 3 clones out or something. People are claiming 3K per clone without vulnerability/might stacks. Thing is, nobody is actually posting proper footage, it’s mostly claims and dogging combat log screens(which can be easily shopped) from what i’ve seen and read.

There’s a video of a BullKittening GLASS CANNON thief getting instagibbed by a shatter mesmer in less than a second and complaining it’s 2STRONK without considering other potential things that could have damaged him(already existing phantasm, blurred frenzy while MW’ing, fire aoe on crit sigil/air rune, MW itself), when he dealt 70% HP damage to the mesmer himself in less than a second before getting blown up.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Mesmer-Burst/page/5
Read the last two(or all) pages.

For me, it’s just a scheme to make Devs lower Mesmer shatter damage as a whole, lol.
I hope they just fix this “bug” that makes “MW hit for 3k per clone without buffs/vuln.” and leave everything else OR make most of these useless traits actually useful.

Dynia.9574:

i don’t rly care about it, im weird tank mesmer who don’t use shaters ^^

Elaborate.
I know a “tank” mesmer can be alright/possible for pve, but what exactly are you doing? I don’t really see a point anymore other than potentially taking projectile hits, since we can’t really make mobs follow us. I could see it being alright in a toughness/healing power phantasm heavy(perma regen)/ mantra healing/focus reflecting(Inspiration VIII) build.
Or going for disables, which also isn’t bad for trash mobs, which i never tried, though, since everything is so inferior to shattering right now.

Illusionary Membrane has been nerfed to death, so we can’t really protection stack anymore, UNLESS mobs decide to hit us with fast attacks while we have chaos armor and get lucky.

Emanuel.9781:

tqhx.2190:

I missed this shatter bug, what exactly is bugged about shatter?

Appearently you can increase the damage MW deals by doing shatter inputs quick enough, MW’ing when there’s more than 3 clones out or something. People are claiming 3K per clone without vulnerability/might stacks. Thing is, nobody is actually posting proper footage, it’s mostly claims and dogging combat log screens(which can be easily shopped) from what i’ve seen and read.

There’s a video of a BullKittening GLASS CANNON thief getting instagibbed by a shatter mesmer in less than a second and complaining it’s 2STRONK without considering other potential things that could have damaged him(already existing phantasm, blurred frenzy while MW’ing, fire aoe on crit sigil/air rune, MW itself), when he dealt 70% HP damage to the mesmer himself in less than a second before getting blown up.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Mesmer-Burst/page/5
Read the last two(or all) pages.

For me, it’s just a scheme to make Devs lower Mesmer shatter damage as a whole, lol.
I hope they just fix this “bug” that makes “MW hit for 3k per clone without buffs/vuln.” and leave everything else OR make most of these useless traits actually useful.

Hah i saw the video in there on another post. The thief just walks right into a 3 clone daze 4 clone shatter, and the mesmer only has like 2k health left after the .5 seconds the thief is on him. It was a close fight, but a quick one. Honestly if the mesmer didnt burst him down that fast, the mesmer would have been dead within another half second…

Then there is another vid, and the guy FREAKS out, but he has 13k, and you can see the shatter drops him to 5k, and he is screaming that one shatter dropped him…lol (actually you can see in the combat log the total for the shatter was 7k damage…wowee….)

Honestly ive had warriors smack me for 15k in a single hit before, and ive been beaten by plenty of thieves in under 2 seconds simply because i didnt react quickly enough with a distortion.

If Anet nerfs our shatter damage that would be a bit ridiculous, but if there is a bug there by all means fix it

edit: Ok so playing around i can get this to pop off, 19 stacks of might shatter within 2 secs no macros, and im old and slow on the keys. I dont think the shatter damage is the issue so much as being able to trick all those stacks so quickly. Hopefully the nerf targets that, as just normally my shatter is only 1200ish per non crit and im as glass cannon as it gets. In the meantime, this will be fun lol

I run GS/Staff hybrid (leaning towards power build, but some cond damage).

Works fine. Zero issues in all aspects of pvp (spvp and wx3)..

Torch/scepter is a PvP setup, there’s no point in using it in PvE. Confusion, block, blind and stealth are wasted there.

Though for all the people running glass cannon shatter builds, there’s not much point in using torch/scepter in PvP either.

Lysico.4906:

I run GS/Staff hybrid (leaning towards power build, but some cond damage).

Works fine. Zero issues in all aspects of pvp (spvp and wx3)..

The issue is one that is in favor of the mesmer. 20 stacks of vuln and 12 stacks of might in 1 shatter, then a decoy mirror shatter will drop pretty much any other glass cannon. Anet wants thieves to be the kings of burst, not mesmer. Hopefully they only nerf the stack counts, and not how much mind wrack hits for.

The funny thing is its all spurred from a video where a thief jumps a mesmer who already has 2 clones out, gets the mesmer to 20% health in under 1 second, then in the next second gets hit with the double shatter and is downed instantly (it looks like 4×4k damage and the thief has 15k health, mind you the mesmer had the same, both were glass cannons)

Wise.8025:

tqhx.2190:

I missed this shatter bug, what exactly is bugged about shatter?

There’s no bug. People assume it’s a bug because ANet hasn’t commented on it. It has to do with using a Shatter 2 or 3 and then popping out 3 more clones and hitting Mind Wrack so that you get the additional clone count for damage scaling.

Personally I think the scaling was intended, I just don’t think they expected people to get7-9 clones being counted in the shatter scale. To fix the issue they simply just need to cap the shatter scaling at a max of 5 or 6 clones. It’s not even really an issue for the most part since it has been around since beta, but now that more people are aware of it there’s been an endless stream of QQ threads.

NO this is not what the exploit that people are using is. It involves timing 3 clones to do daze/vulnerability and same clones hitting WM. No need to even summon another 3 clones. So it is a bug because 3 clones are being used to do 2 shatters.

I can hit f1 and f3 one after the other only so fast, i cannot get 2 shatters from the same clones. I can shatter myself without any clones which is part of the 30 point talent in illusions…

Also as far as i can tell, there is NO bug, just an overbuff in Anet and many players opinions, which they plan to scale back. It has been acknowledged

If I had to guess, the shatter trick as it stands has something to do with the way you maintain a clone indicator even after you issue the shatter. Meaning: notice that when you make a clone and tell it to shatter, you maintain a pink dot for that clone until it actually explodes. But if you shatter three illusions at once, then create a new clone, you don’t blow up any of the existing ones— they’re tracked as an “existing illusion” without being tracked as one of your limit of three illusions. Thus, if you can somehow issue a shatter, generate more clones, and tell those to shatter before the original set explodes, it’s possible that the server sees you as having five to six illusions— with unsettling implications for the calculation of Mind Wrack damage. Add to that the Might stacks from Shattered Might and you’ve got shatter damage beyond the designed boundaries of the game.

Thats what some people are saying, but unable to get double credit for clones

Balthalzar.6243:

We all know it’s coming because of berserker shatter mesmer’s and that bug with shatter.

I’m just coming back from a little break.. What bug are you talking about?

I just don’t see Anet giving a nerf to Mesmers other than maybe the power buff from shatters.

Honestly the Mesmer should now have work done on its weapons and I know this have been said plenty of times but the Mesmer really needs a pistol MH.

Emanuel.9781:

Dynia.9574:

i don’t rly care about it, im weird tank mesmer who don’t use shaters ^^

Elaborate.
I know a “tank” mesmer can be alright/possible for pve, but what exactly are you doing? I don’t really see a point anymore other than potentially taking projectile hits, since we can’t really make mobs follow us. I could see it being alright in a toughness/healing power phantasm heavy(perma regen)/ mantra healing/focus reflecting(Inspiration VIII) build.
Or going for disables, which also isn’t bad for trash mobs, which i never tried, though, since everything is so inferior to shattering right now.

Illusionary Membrane has been nerfed to death, so we can’t really protection stack anymore, UNLESS mobs decide to hit us with fast attacks while we have chaos armor and get lucky.

You right about Membrane, however that only semi hurt mez tank builds. Was annoying as hell yes, but with a bit of change to my tank mez it was not prob at all.

Second no i can hold mobs on me for the first 20 secs of a fight easy. Which trash mobs are usually dead by then.

Third on boss’s I know how to lock down them so most of them become useless.

Any boss that mainly use long range is auto useless. Any boss that use melee I can control still pretty well so they aim at me and not at team.

Only boss’s I have trouble with holding is the big ones that just keep going all over the place like lupi. However with them I never die and can revive people even once their dead with out me going down.

Basically for most thing I completely control and for others I keep us from whipping no matter the boss.

(I dont do spvp really)

But in WvW I toking on 10 people before and won.
Also build so I can sue the environment around me very well, esp in WvW.
Me and chaios my theif friend. Took out a zerg of 30+ in WvW. by tricking them all off a cliff.

Basically my tank build can do so many different things.

Lunatic.9314:

Balthalzar.6243:

We all know it’s coming because of berserker shatter mesmer’s and that bug with shatter.

I’m just coming back from a little break.. What bug are you talking about?

Read:

Moddo.7105:

Wise.8025:

tqhx.2190:

I missed this shatter bug, what exactly is bugged about shatter?

There’s no bug. People assume it’s a bug because ANet hasn’t commented on it. It has to do with using a Shatter 2 or 3 and then popping out 3 more clones and hitting Mind Wrack so that you get the additional clone count for damage scaling.

Personally I think the scaling was intended, I just don’t think they expected people to get7-9 clones being counted in the shatter scale. To fix the issue they simply just need to cap the shatter scaling at a max of 5 or 6 clones. It’s not even really an issue for the most part since it has been around since beta, but now that more people are aware of it there’s been an endless stream of QQ threads.

NO this is not what the exploit that people are using is. It involves timing 3 clones to do daze/vulnerability and same clones hitting WM. No need to even summon another 3 clones. So it is a bug because 3 clones are being used to do 2 shatters.

Having read all this I now understand why in wvw mesmers are too lazy to spec for something that actually helps in a group situation, like null field and the other bubble, together with the trait that causes condition on entry/exit to the area of the bubble. Far more use in wvw than shatter GC.
Try this in wvw against a zerg: throw an illusion out, f2 it, immediately drop bubble and then null field and then watch all those pretty numbers and crippled zergers and people killing themselves. Throw in a decent thief spinning in, d/d ele, stompy warrior and a guardian stopping the zerg in it’s tracks and start picking up loot bags.
Will i care if they fix the shatter bug?

Kupi.7864:

If I had to guess, the shatter trick as it stands has something to do with the way you maintain a clone indicator even after you issue the shatter. Meaning: notice that when you make a clone and tell it to shatter, you maintain a pink dot for that clone until it actually explodes. But if you shatter three illusions at once, then create a new clone, you don’t blow up any of the existing ones— they’re tracked as an “existing illusion” without being tracked as one of your limit of three illusions. Thus, if you can somehow issue a shatter, generate more clones, and tell those to shatter before the original set explodes, it’s possible that the server sees you as having five to six illusions— with unsettling implications for the calculation of Mind Wrack damage. Add to that the Might stacks from Shattered Might and you’ve got shatter damage beyond the designed boundaries of the game.

I have noticed this as well but i think that it is intended. Because the clones that are on their way to shatter are already useless for any other cause and if you can get more clones up then hit another shatter I dont think it will count for your mind wrack… Also if I shatter right when I dodge sometimes it does blow up an existing clone and the clone i just created shatters instead…. I really hope we don’t get nerfed into oblivion

Any bugs should be fixed.

Shatters as they are listed

Diversion + dazzling

All shatters + shattered strength

Are fine!

If a nerf is needed somthing like shattered strength only gives 2 stacks, I just hope they don’t hit dazzling which I’m pretty kitten sure is what it’s going to be sigh

EsLafiel.4517:

Emanuel.9781:

Dynia.9574:

i don’t rly care about it, im weird tank mesmer who don’t use shaters ^^

Elaborate.
I know a “tank” mesmer can be alright/possible for pve, but what exactly are you doing? I don’t really see a point anymore other than potentially taking projectile hits, since we can’t really make mobs follow us. I could see it being alright in a toughness/healing power phantasm heavy(perma regen)/ mantra healing/focus reflecting(Inspiration VIII) build.
Or going for disables, which also isn’t bad for trash mobs, which i never tried, though, since everything is so inferior to shattering right now.

Illusionary Membrane has been nerfed to death, so we can’t really protection stack anymore, UNLESS mobs decide to hit us with fast attacks while we have chaos armor and get lucky.

You right about Membrane, however that only semi hurt mez tank builds. Was annoying as hell yes, but with a bit of change to my tank mez it was not prob at all.

Second no i can hold mobs on me for the first 20 secs of a fight easy. Which trash mobs are usually dead by then.

Third on boss’s I know how to lock down them so most of them become useless.

Any boss that mainly use long range is auto useless. Any boss that use melee I can control still pretty well so they aim at me and not at team.

Only boss’s I have trouble with holding is the big ones that just keep going all over the place like lupi. However with them I never die and can revive people even once their dead with out me going down.

Basically for most thing I completely control and for others I keep us from whipping no matter the boss.

(I dont do spvp really)

But in WvW I toking on 10 people before and won.
Also build so I can sue the environment around me very well, esp in WvW.
Me and chaios my theif friend. Took out a zerg of 30+ in WvW. by tricking them all off a cliff.

Basically my tank build can do so many different things.

Thanks for the answer.

What i’d like to know, though, are you running berserker or a more defensive(high toughness) gear setup? I used to run a high toughness gear setup before, but mobs still liked to ignore me most of the time, even when actively attacking/kiting/healing. Also, by locking down bosses, i suppose you’re not talking about interrupting their attacks, because i don’t see a relialable way of breaking 5-8 stacks of defiant (2-3x mantra, 3-4x diversion, 1x pistol/GS/focus/sword OH) consistently.

When i kite bosses, they always liked to simply ignore me after a short while and go for others or maybe i just didn’t pay attention to it. I guess i’ll try a “tank” build again sometime just to see how it works. ATM i simply prefer the damage i can get from shatters+the perma vigor/20 might/retal i give to the group.

Also important question: Does PLAYER toughness/vit affect phantasm/clone health? I never got around to check it or really bothered with it and does Signet of Illusions finally work properly(if not, how long does it take for it to take effect)?

This will be the nerf

Shattering illusions grants you 3 stacks of might (10 seconds). Effect can only happen once every 10 seconds.

Beachead.4127:

This will be the nerf

Shattering illusions grants you 3 stacks of might (10 seconds). Effect can only happen once every 10 seconds.

More like: Shattering illusions grants you 3 stacks of might (3 seconds). Effect can only happen once every 15 seconds.